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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Starbucks Trailwinds (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/starbucks-trailwinds-327908/)

B-flat 01-06-2022 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneclickplus (Post 2046756)
Since you asked ...

The vast majority of the sheeple are tone deaf to real scientific facts ... preferring statements from talking heads such as "pandemic of the unvaccinated" ... when we all now KNOW the vaccinated are acquiring the virus and spreading it to others whether they have symptoms or not. Just look at the fully vaccinated cruise ships being shut down. But, they love the division ... standing on their "holier than thou" towers and ****ing on those of us who choose to protect our health from the dangers of these mRNA shots. If the vaccines do anything to prevent acquisition or spread of the virus, why do the vaccinated (3 & 4 shots now) still have to wear a mask? The answer, of course, is that the vax'd can and DO spread the virus just as readily as the unvaxxed. It's not the sole domain of the unvaxxed. If you're vax'd, they say you have a better chance of not getting sick / hospitalized / dying and that appears to be true. But, getting vax'd does not stop any spreading.

Sure, an unvaccinated individual might be more likely to get sick / hospitalized. But, as a free American citizen, it is not my duty to take a treatment (shot) for something just because the hospitals are overflowing. Since it has been shown that the unvaccinated are NOT a threat to the vaccinated, staying unvaccinated is a simple personal medical decision.

The government liars and the media liars have been very successful in promoting the lie that the unvaccinated are the reason we still have covid. But, repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true. Last year, I read so many of you here anticipating that you will be *free* of masks and able to fully engage in life with no concerns at all and just salivating over the prospects of the unvaxxed not being able to eat out or take a cruise or many other things. How's that working out for you?

I laugh at the cities that have vax mandates in order to do just about anything. Why? Because in their ignorance, they limit attendance to only vaxxed people who will then spread covid only amongst themselves. It's like people shooting in a circle. In reality, they're keeping me out and safe - LOL

So, yes, that Starbucks latte made by a fully vaccinated individual who is infected but asymptomatic and wearing a mask may still come with a side of covid. Caution: contents may be HOT.
:bigbow:

patfla06 01-06-2022 04:15 PM
I treat myself at Starbucks once in a while to a Trenta Shaken iced green tea.
The one I make at home isn’t as good but they’re now charging $4.23 so
I’m out. Plus most of their cold drinks are half ice.

I do not like Starbucks politics at all.

I still don’t know how people are not working.

coffeebean 01-06-2022 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trishakaye (Post 2046729)
Are you paying attention? Vaccinated folks still pass it on!!! You can’t outrun it forever unless you move to a private island
I don't plan to outrun it. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted and my immune system is a good one. I will probably be either asymptomatic or have mild symptoms if I contract Covid, especially with the Omicron variant. Nothing to worry about.

coffeebean 01-06-2022 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trishakaye (Post 2046731)
I’m vaxed, had horrible, scary reaction to the booster. I support your decision
If you will, what was your "scary" reaction to the booster?

coffeebean 01-06-2022 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Fr (Post 2046767)
This is just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it, lol. It appears to me that the latest variant is quite a bit less lethal. Tracking new cases is becoming like tracking new cases of the common cold.
Actually, data is revealing that Omicron is much less lethal but so much more transmissible. So, given that many many more people are contracting Covid, the amount of hospitalizations are fairly constant than what we had with the Delta surge. Seems we can't win for losing.

JMintzer 01-06-2022 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2046981)
What makes you think the vaccines are a failure? Holy cow. The vaccine is designed to keep people from hospitalization and death for people with healthy immune systems. It is doing that in spades. Have you seen the numbers of people who are hospitalized and are UN-vaccinated? Those are the people who are glutting our health care facilities, NOT the vaccinated.
Except it was designed to PREVENT one from contracting Covid...

That is, unless they were lying about that, as well...

JMintzer 01-06-2022 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2046982)
That is not what we were told at all. I distinctly remember finally being fully vaccinated and was totally relieved that I would not wind up in the hospital if I contracted Covid. I don't recall ever being informed that these mRNA vaccines would prevent transmission of Covid. Sterilizing vaccines prevent transmission of diseases and these mRNA vaccines are not that type of vaccine. I've know this all along. I guess it depends on your news sources.

What is sterilizing immunity and do we need it for the coronavirus? | TheHill
Really? We were initially told that the Moderna vaccine would PREVENT INFECTION 90% of the time and the Pfizer, just slightly less. The J&J had a lower PREVENTION rate...

You want me to show you the receipts?

JMintzer 01-06-2022 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2046992)
If you will, what was your "scary" reaction to the booster?
I had Covid, way back in early 2020, a year before the vaccines came out. Mild fever (never over 99.7°), mild body aches and chills and a slight cough for 36 hrs...

After my first (Moderna) vaccine, I thought I was gonna' die. 101° fever, intense body aches, chills and fatigue, a red swollen arm that I was unable to use for several days. I was wiped out for 4-5 days...

It was so bad, I seriously considered skipping my 2nd dose (as it was supposed to be worse than the first one). Luckily, it was much better, with minimal symptoms.

Since the "booster" was the very same shot as the first two, yeah, one could get a "scary" reaction, despite your mocking dismissal...

Lisa22 01-06-2022 06:17 PM
That is correct. Turn off CNN. I work in a hospital in the NE. You are being told that all the hospitalizations for Covid are the unvaccinated. No, people are being hospitalized for other reasons (as was usual) but are being COUNTED as Covid cases because
they might also be testing positive. I got Covid on the job in early 2020, got vaccinated in early 2021, live a healthy life and did not take any time off from work in 2021. Guess what? I am asymptomatic and still TESTED POSITIVE.

coffeebean 01-06-2022 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047025)
Except it was designed to PREVENT one from contracting Covid...

That is, unless they were lying about that, as well...
mRNA vaccines don't sterilize the virus; the vaccine neutralizes the virus. The mRNA vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity and they were not designed to do that. I don't know where you got the impression the mRNA vaccines were developed to prevent one from contracting the virus. We were told that these vaccines would prevent hospitalization and death if someone contracts the virus. That is exactly what these vaccines have delivered to those who have normal functioning immune systems.

coffeebean 01-06-2022 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047028)
Really? We were initially told that the Moderna vaccine would PREVENT INFECTION 90% of the time and the Pfizer, just slightly less. The J&J had a lower PREVENTION rate...

You want me to show you the receipts?
Yes, I do remember those efficacy percentages with the Moderna vaccine always higher than other vaccines. Those who did contract the virus were protected from hospitalization and death. As it turns out, those with compromised immune systems don't have the protection as those with normal functioning immune systems, unfortunately. These vaccines have performed as promised.

coffeebean 01-06-2022 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047034)
I had Covid, way back in early 2020, a year before the vaccines came out. Mild fever (never over 99.7°), mild body aches and chills and a slight cough for 36 hrs...

After my first (Moderna) vaccine, I thought I was gonna' die. 101° fever, intense body aches, chills and fatigue, a red swollen arm that I was unable to use for several days. I was wiped out for 4-5 days...

It was so bad, I seriously considered skipping my 2nd dose (as it was supposed to be worse than the first one). Luckily, it was much better, with minimal symptoms.

Since the "booster" was the very same shot as the first two, yeah, one could get a "scary" reaction, despite your mocking dismissal...
You are one of the lucky ones who had a very good immune response to the vaccine. I had a 101.6 fever with my first shot of Moderna and the normal symptoms of a fever such as body aches, fatigue, a very hightened sensitivity to touch (I HATE that symptom) and also had a very red and swollen arm reaction at the injection site. I was so relieved to know my immune system was still kicking ass. I welcomed those symptoms. By the next morning I was good to go, feeling perfectly normal. I welcomed my second shot but did not have any systemic reaction; just the red and swollen arm at the injection site. I had no reaction at all from the half dose booster.

JMintzer 01-06-2022 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2047048)
mRNA vaccines don't sterilize the virus; the vaccine neutralizes the virus. The mRNA vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity and they were not designed to do that. I don't know where you got the impression the mRNA vaccines were developed to prevent one from contracting the virus. We were told that these vaccines would prevent hospitalization and death if someone contracts the virus. That is exactly what these vaccines have delivered to those who have normal functioning immune systems.
Where I got the impression?

Possibly from the people who actually told us that!

Here's a list of "receipts"...

'Real world' study shows Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were 90% effective

Effectiveness of COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Frontline Workers Before and During B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant Predominance — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–August 2021 | MMWR

Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 Vaccines Are 90% Effective in Real World

Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccines Are Very Effective, Report Says - The New York Times

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines 90% effective in preventing COVID, US finds | The Times of Israel

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...eal-world.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-...effective.html

Notice how all of these articles use the verbiage "PREVENTING INFECTION"?

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would think the vaccines would "prevent" Covid...

Tis a mystery...

coffeebean 01-06-2022 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047066)
Where I got the impression?

Possibly from the people who actually told us that!

Here's a list of "receipts"...

'Real world' study shows Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were 90% effective

Effectiveness of COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Frontline Workers Before and During B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant Predominance — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–August 2021 | MMWR

Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 Vaccines Are 90% Effective in Real World

Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccines Are Very Effective, Report Says - The New York Times

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines 90% effective in preventing COVID, US finds | The Times of Israel

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...eal-world.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-...effective.html

Notice how all of these articles use the verbiage "PREVENTING INFECTION"?

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would think the vaccines would "prevent" Covid...

Tis a mystery...
I understand where you are coming from, but, 90% is not 100% effective. I took this information and figured if I was one of the unlucky 10% who does contract Covid, I would still be protected from hospitalization and death.

JMintzer 01-06-2022 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2047114)
I understand where you are coming from, but, 90% is not 100% effective. I took this information and figured if I was one of the unlucky 10% who does contract Covid, I would still be protected from hospitalization and death.
THAT'S what you got from my post??? I give up...

mlmarr 01-07-2022 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patfla06 (Post 2046509)
I went to Starbucks Trailwinds today.
Lobby was closed. New drive thru hours are until 3 pm and
closed on Thursday. I asked and it’s due to staffing shortages.
Oh and the prices went up again.

How are people NOT working??
research the company .. looks like many overpriced coffee shoppes are closing across this country/ could be cutting hours to open during high traffic times, save a little money ...

some people don't work because they are supported by .... xyz this is happening in all industry not just starbucks look around. Worker bees are over worked and tired ..

thevillages2013 01-07-2022 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2046529)
I think employees need to pay for testing too.
Yep , well THAT IS WHY THEY DO NOT HAVE STAFF. There are thousands of jobs available elsewhere

tsmall22204 01-07-2022 08:25 AM
You do you. But when the hospital puts a ventilator tube down your throat, don't look for sympathy and don't ask for the vaccine, it is to late. Living a healthy lifestyle involves preventive medicine.

JMintzer 01-07-2022 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall22204 (Post 2047232)
You do you. But when the hospital puts a ventilator tube down your throat, don't look for sympathy and don't ask for the vaccine, it is to late. Living a healthy lifestyle involves preventive medicine.
It would help if anyone had a clue as to whom your reply was directed...

RobbyHarris 01-07-2022 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047119)
THAT'S what you got from my post??? I give up...
i too read your post and while it was informative you should look and see that all the links you post were reports related to a march 2021 - about 10 months ago - report from the cdc on the vaccine statistics for the previous 3 or 4 months which goes back to when the vaccines were first largely deployed to the majority of usa in early 2021 after the trials.

why is this important? because that was before delta and omicron came on the scene. at that time, and during original trials according to the cdc statistics they were indeed 90-95 percent preventing infection but once those 2 variants came around, delta sometime in june or july of 2021, the vaccines became less effective for prevention of covid infection but were found to still prevent most severe cases, hospitalization and death.

i dare say you will find no legitimate science and statistic based reporting after those variants had become the primary means of infection stating vaccines are still 90-95 percent effective from catching the virus at all as that is when most breakthrough started to show up. yes there were some before, thus 90-95 percent, not 100 percent. the vaccines were designed to fight what was available when they started making them which was way back in 2020 way before delta and omicron were ever around.

so yes you are correct in saying everyone - basically the cdc reports which were then simply referred to and reprinted in all the articles you posted - said the vaccines were 90-95 percent effective in preventing infection but sadly as time marched on and new variants came on the scene that was and is no longer the case but it was back in march of 2021. things change very rapidly.

please excuse my typing because my caps key is not properly functioning. i could use the lock and type in all caps but that would not be polite.

JMintzer 01-07-2022 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyHarris (Post 2047395)
i too read your post and while it was informative you should look and see that all the links you post were reports related to a march 2021 - about 10 months ago - report from the cdc on the vaccine statistics for the previous 3 or 4 months which goes back to when the vaccines were first largely deployed to the majority of usa in early 2021 after the trials.

why is this important? because that was before delta and omicron came on the scene. at that time, and during original trials according to the cdc statistics they were indeed 90-95 percent preventing infection but once those 2 variants came around, delta sometime in june or july of 2021, the vaccines became less effective for prevention of covid infection but were found to still prevent most severe cases, hospitalization and death.

i dare say you will find no legitimate science and statistic based reporting after those variants had become the primary means of infection stating vaccines are still 90-95 percent effective from catching the virus at all as that is when most breakthrough started to show up. yes there were some before, thus 90-95 percent, not 100 percent. the vaccines were designed to fight what was available when they started making them which was way back in 2020 way before delta and omicron were ever around.

so yes you are correct in saying everyone - basically the cdc reports which were then simply referred to and reprinted in all the articles you posted - said the vaccines were 90-95 percent effective in preventing infection but sadly as time marched on and new variants came on the scene that was and is no longer the case but it was back in march of 2021. things change very rapidly.

please excuse my typing because my caps key is not properly functioning. i could use the lock and type in all caps but that would not be polite.
Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying! That we were INITIALLY told that the vaccine would PREVENT Covid infections!

I was refuting the FALSE statement that they ALWAYS said that that the vaccine was developed to lessen the severity of infections and that we were NEVER told it would prevent infections... That is simply not true...

ex34449 01-07-2022 03:29 PM
I'm 64. I got Covid 6 or 8 months ago with no masks unless mandated and no shots. It was the flu that just lasted a little longer. Wife also got Covid around the same time. No visits to the clinic other than to get swabbed, no drugs other than Ibuprofen. We both doubled up on the vitamins, drank only water with Pedialyte, I tripled my intake of protein drinks. No ventilator, no coffin etc.
Wife has no underlying issues, I have 2 autoimmune diseases. Sarcoidosis and Sjogrens. Both of us are fit. When we sit at the table we can still see our belt buckles. We don't do gyms but we are both active and considered quite healhty by our doc's.
Nearly everyone I know has had their shots including the booster. My son and his fiancé live in Denver. They got all the jabs, wear the masks, social distance etc etc. Guess who left the new years party sick as hell. It wasn't us. (and from the sound of it, they feel worse than I did)
Couldn't tell you which media is right or wrong as I haven't watched the boob tube in over 6 years. Last time I went to Starsucks was 3 or 4 years ago I'd guess. I got a coffee that tasted like hell... payed way too much for it. Never again thank you.
I understand this thing has put a lot of people in the dirt. I would like to know the health status of the dead prior to them expiring due to Covid. I mean if your supposed to weigh 175 but weigh 275 plus, have heart issues, diabetes etc because you're overly wide. Is it Covid that killed them or their own ignorance of their own health? Sorry for the most likely many typos. I'm on the phone typing this.

Aces4 01-07-2022 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patfla06 (Post 2046509)
I went to Starbucks Trailwinds today.
Lobby was closed. New drive thru hours are until 3 pm and
closed on Thursday. I asked and it’s due to staffing shortages.
Oh and the prices went up again.

How are people NOT working??
There is a quick solution to this. Go into the bathroom, drop a ten dollar bill into the toilet and flush! It saves so many steps and achieves the same result.:mmmm::thumbup:

cj1040 01-07-2022 04:35 PM
Nooooo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 2046597)
You mean for those who don't follow the fake science? Look it up. The number of deaths worldwide has remained at a constant .76% for the past 3 years. So much for a worldwide Pandemic. Or haven't you noticed that the vast majority of those getting Covid today are those who took the jab - NFL, NBA, NHL, cruise ship crew and passengers. Wake up and smell tge coffee!
You are so wrong and misinformed.

coffeebean 01-07-2022 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047412)
Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying! That we were INITIALLY told that the vaccine would PREVENT Covid infections!

I was refuting the FALSE statement that they ALWAYS said that that the vaccine was developed to lessen the severity of infections and that we were NEVER told it would prevent infections... That is simply not true...
You are correct. I called up my lapsing memory and this is what I recall........

The Moderna mRNA vaccine is 95% effective in preventing Covid. If you are one of the unlucky 5% of people to contract Covid, you are still have protection from hospitalization and death. This efficacy statement was referring to the original strain of Covid.

JMintzer 01-07-2022 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2047522)
You are correct. I called up my lapsing memory and this is what I recall........

The Moderna mRNA vaccine is 95% effective in preventing Covid. If you are one of the unlucky 5% of people to contract Covid, you are still have protection from hospitalization and death. This efficacy statement was referring to the original strain of Covid.
Thank you...

I can't seem to remember why I went into the kitchen, but I'll remember every single word to some obscure classic rock song that came out when I was 15... Same thing with movie quotes. Drives the Boss crazy!

I have a knack to remember facts when I read things... The Boss says I have a "photogenic" memory... Yes, she said "photogenic"...

I did "mansplain" that she really didn't mean that and she quickly corrected herself to "photographic", which, according to Sheldon, is really an "eidentic" memory... ;)

All I know is I remember obscure sh!t... Don't care what it's called... :1rotfl:

And yes, I know... I can sometimes come across as a "know it all", but it's because I AM sure of my facts when debating. And when I occasionally screw up, I WILL admit it...

Anyway, thanks again. Have a good weekend!

EdFNJ 01-07-2022 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2047522)
You are correct. I called up my lapsing memory and this is what I recall........

The Moderna mRNA vaccine is 95% effective in preventing Covid. If you are one of the unlucky 5% of people to contract Covid, you are still have protection from hospitalization and death. This efficacy statement was referring to the original strain of Covid.
True! My daughter, son-in-law, graddaughter and grandson in NJ all made the lucky 5%. All of them have had 2 shots plus boost and all 4 are just getting over omicron. 3 of them got it easy but my S-I-L (52) was comparatively bad and he is in super top atheltic type of shape. Talk about luck. They have a Disney trip scheduled for this weekend. Hopefully they will be OK by Sunday when they leave. They are on day 5 tomorrow. We're supposed to meet them there Monday.

EdFNJ 01-07-2022 10:35 PM
I guess this explains it. My daughter and family lives in Nj just east of Philly and this data is a couple weeks old. 3300 out of 11,201 REPORTED cases were "fully vaccinated" which I assume means at least 2 shots. That more than 25% of all cases were 'breakthrough."

The December case information, made public by the Philadelphia Department of Public Health Tuesday, shows a surge in cases this month that’s likely to be among the worst of the year. The city tallied 11,201 COVID-19 cases as of Tuesday, the most in a single month since April, with still more than a week remaining in 2021. Of those, 3,300 were among fully vaccinated people. The data offer a first glimpse of case rates while the omicron variant is present in the city, but leave unanswered a slew of important questions

Original article: Philly breakthrough COVID cases rising as omicron spreads

Nanettek3 01-08-2022 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall22204 (Post 2046602)
Staff shortages are often because positive covid cases. Dont blame the business when the real culprit are those who choose not to get vaccinated and infect everyone else.
I currently know 32 people in December and January who had/have the new covid variant and they have ALL had the vaccine plus booster. They quarantined so not to pass it to family, friends and others. So apparently anyone can get the virus and infect others, vaccinated or not.

JMintzer 01-08-2022 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanettek3 (Post 2047538)
I currently know 32 people in December and January who had/have the new covid variant and they have ALL had the vaccine plus booster. They quarantined so not to pass it to family, friends and others. So apparently anyone can get the virus and infect others, vaccinated or not.
Correct. But it's soooo much easier to blame "the real culprit", whomever they are... :ohdear:

coffeebean 01-11-2022 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2047528)
Thank you...

I can't seem to remember why I went into the kitchen, but I'll remember every single word to some obscure classic rock song that came out when I was 15... Same thing with movie quotes. Drives the Boss crazy!

I have a knack to remember facts when I read things... The Boss says I have a "photogenic" memory... Yes, she said "photogenic"...

I did "mansplain" that she really didn't mean that and she quickly corrected herself to "photographic", which, according to Sheldon, is really an "eidentic" memory... ;)

All I know is I remember obscure sh!t... Don't care what it's called... :1rotfl:

And yes, I know... I can sometimes come across as a "know it all", but it's because I AM sure of my facts when debating. And when I occasionally screw up, I WILL admit it...

Anyway, thanks again. Have a good weekend!
:):):)

Papa_lecki 01-11-2022 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2047522)
You are correct. I called up my lapsing memory and this is what I recall........

The Moderna mRNA vaccine is 95% effective in preventing Covid. If you are one of the unlucky 5% of people to contract Covid, you are still have protection from hospitalization and death. This efficacy statement was referring to the original strain of Covid.
Actually, that’s not true….from the Wall Street journal, Monday….

‘…. af*ter 30 days the Mod*erna and Pfizer vac*cines no longer had any sta*tis*ti*cally sig*nif*i*cant pos*i*tive ef*fect against Omi*cron in*fec*tion, and af*ter 90 days, their ef*fect went neg*a*tive—i.e., vac*ci*nated peo*ple were more sus*cep*ti*ble to Omi*cron in*fec*tion. Con*firm*ing this neg*a*tive ef*fi*cacy find*ing, data from Den*mark and the Cana*dian prov*ince of On*tario in*di*cate that vac*ci*nated peo*ple have higher rates of Omi*cron in*fec*tion than un*vac*ci*nated peo*ple.‘

Dana1963 01-12-2022 05:37 AM
Your * make it difficult to fact check was that the intent?

Papa_lecki 01-12-2022 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana1963 (Post 2048742)
Your * make it difficult to fact check was that the intent?
Sorry,
Omicron Makes Biden’s Vaccine Mandates Obsolete - WSJ

When you copy from the article, the WSJ inserts the *

Dana1963 01-12-2022 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2048757)

Sorry,
Omicron Makes Biden’s Vaccine Mandates Obsolete - WSJ

When you copy from the article, the WSJ inserts the *
Federal courts considering the Biden administration’s vaccination mandates—including the Supreme Court at Friday’s oral argument—have focused on administrative-law issues. The decrees raise constitutional issues as well. But there’s a simpler reason the justices should stay these mandates: the rise of the Omicron variant.
No it doesn't

Dana1963 01-12-2022 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2048757)

Sorry,
Omicron Makes Biden’s Vaccine Mandates Obsolete - WSJ

When you copy from the article, the WSJ inserts the *
Federal courts considering the Biden administration’s vaccination mandates—including the Supreme Court at Friday’s oral argument—have focused on administrative-law issues. The decrees raise constitutional issues as well. But there’s a simpler reason the justices should stay these mandates: the rise of the Omicron variant.

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here.

OPINION: POTOMAC WATCH
WSJ Opinion Potomac Watch
The Supreme Court Hears Vaccine Mandate Arguments

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Both mandates—from the Health and Human Services Department for healthcare workers and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration for large employers in many other industries—were issued Nov. 5. At that time, the Delta variant represented almost all U.S. Covid-19 cases, and both agencies appropriately considered Delta at length and in detail, finding that the vaccines remained effective against it.

Those findings are now obsolete. As of Jan. 1, Omicron represented more than 95% of U.S. Covid cases, according to estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Because some of Omicron’s 50 mutations are known to evade antibody protection, because more than 30 of those mutations are to the spike protein used as an immunogen by the existing vaccines, and because there have been mass Omicron outbreaks in heavily vaccinated populations, scientists are highly uncertain the existing vaccines can stop it from spreading. As the CDC put it on Dec. 20, “we don’t yet know . . . how well available vaccines and medications work against it.”

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