I agree! I also thought they went too high. The current system is unfair to the homeowners and I know the commissioners would like to correct this but there proposal was not thoroughly thought thru and was just too large of a leap!

What does landscaping have to do with county taxes?:confused::confused:

- The SCFEMS budget for last year was about $19M and this year they asked for $28M.
- The new assessment and structure would bring in $35M but now, changing it back to the old amount and old structure, it will only bring in about $10M
- The $25M difference will likely be split evenly between the two departments, $12.5M each.
- Taking $12.5M from the SCFEMS budget will leave $15.5M which is about $3.5M LESS than last year.
- Announcing layoffs may only be an attempt to frighten the citizens but with expenses going up and income going down by $3.5M, the SCFEMS has to do something.

The VPSD will lose the same $12.5M but because their budget had a larger increase this year, even losing that amount they will have a little more than last year. Perhaps their proposed increase was to cover the hiring of additional staff which will not happen now.

It was the SCFEMS chief who mentioned the HazMat team.

If the IFD referendum has passed we would not have received notice about the $323.64 and the VPSD would not be involved with this. The IFD referendum locked in our fee at $124 and funded the VPSD out of the IFD. The VPSD would not have been part of the BoCC budget at all.

Now, SCFEMS would have been greatly affected but that's a larger discussion with more math.

That I do not know.

Mix
 

I imagine there is a mix of some volunteer fire stations and some regular city fire stations in that demographic. The obvious skew for the Villages is age vs volunteerism. A “healthy candidate” may not be dependable enough to meet physical qualifications for a satisfactory length of time. Therefore a volunteer fire department is most certainly out of the question if anything just on the factor of reliability of the required physical ability.

Is everyone forgetting that VPSD added 12 new ambulances and the county is adding a similar number? This was in response to the citizen’s dissatisfaction with the private ambulance company’s response time. Our fire departments gave us what we demanded. Did you think that all of that new equipment and the crews to man it was going to be free? Now since we didn’t approve the IFD don’t be surprised if they roll both departments under the control of the county. Would that be a bad thing? Only time will tell.

If the budget was $19 million last year and we change it back to the old amount and old structure, why do we only bring in $10 million?? Where did the extra $9 million go?

So $84,146 divided by $323 .50 is 260 apartments. How many units are in The Lofts?

The SCFD budget last year was $19M. It was funded by about $4.5M from the fire assessment plus $14.5M from property taxes.

The $124 assessment brought in a little over $9M. With more homes built since last July, the $124 assessment might bring in $10M this year.

The $28M request this year would have been made up of $17.5M from the $323 fee plus $10.5M from property taxes. Now that the fee will be only $124 and bring in only $10M the SCFEMS will receive $15.5M which is $3.5M less than last year.

This is all dependent on the BoCC doing nothing to correct the situation. It is highly likely that they will find some way to fund SCFEMS to at least the same level as last year.

Maybe I'm confused, fire departments need to be funded one way or another.

A few hundred people unwilling to pay an extra dollar a day to support our fire department, show up to a meeting and the BOCC overrules the voters without an alternate solution?

You bring up a good point. Homeowners were to see the fire assessment jump from $124 to $324. This was not really that large an increase in our overall county taxes as we have a reduction this upcoming year in our regular county taxes on our homes. People were panicked into showing up at the meeting worrying about the fire fee increase. The fact was that a great deal of the money was coming from the commercial side. That is why we had editorials and news articles in The Daily Sun.

Redone not Retrofit
 

The whole funding system needs redone. Sumter county only has one major metro player, Wildwood. Wildwood provides police services in the southern end of the Villages, but also scoops up tax dollars for it. They could or should provide all fire services for south of 44. The county shouldn’t be the main player in any of that area.

This leaves the central and northern Villages to figure out something. They should still be getting services from the county. The sheriff should be supplying law enforcement and a county sponsored fire system should be in place.

We are a growing region that has to align, but hasn’t yet.

So much conjecture and misinformation here. I’ve spent countless hours writing emails and talking to residents and businesses alike on this topic in the last 3 weeks. I don’t intend to get into a long debate here but I will give you a few facts to clear up some of the misinformation the is most important and confused.

1) very few people pay only $124 for fire protection. $124 only covered about 25% of the total cost of operating the combined fire departments, the balance came from the general fund. The fire departments operations costs represent about 30% of the total general fund budget expenditures. The primary source of funding for the general fund is your county property tax - the county tax line item, not of the entire bill you receive. So about 30% of the county tax line item goes to also funding the fire departments. What does this work out to on an individual basis? Last year for my courtyard villa it is 30% of $1239.81 + $124 or about $496. For a commercial property - we’ll look at the Lofts in Brownwood, last tears County Property tax was $151803, so 30% of that is about $45,540 going to fund the fire departments + the $124 or $45665. This is the same for every property in the county. I did say a few only pay $124, these are smaller properties where the value of the property is low and their county property tax is zero because exemptions, such as homestead, reduce the tax to zero so all they pay is $124.

2) the primary source of the increase is due to the increase in ambulance capacity that was demanded by the residents 2 years ago. I guess the assumption was that someone was going to pay for this new service. Yes, there was some growth factored into this, but this organic growth in the budget was directly offset by the increased revenues received from these properties ($124 + 30% as described above). Funding for building new stations is funded separately.

3) the proposed fire assessment can only be used for fire protection/prevention operating costs, not for advanced life support (ambulance service) or building new fire stations. Basically what was done was that the 30% previously discussed was moved from the general fund out to the Fire Assessment, hence the large increase, and then the cost for ambulance service was added to the general fund offsetting the previous fire expense reduction. Government accounting can be tedious, money is moved between funding sources and the general fund and back out again to funds designated for specific expenditures, this is all done to provide accountability and the ability to follow the money trail. The net result of all of this could be summed up as saying the fire assessment increase is a result of the added ambulance service.

4) impact fees cannot fund this additional cost. Impact fees are a one time fee on new growth that can only be used for adding additional capacity to the fee’s targeted expenditures. Sumter County only has a road impact fee, so it can only be used for adding new roads or increasing capacity of existing roads that are directly impacted by the growth. We could implement a fire impact fee, but that could only be used for expanding fire capacity - new fire stations and trucks, etc. Impact fees cannot be used to offset operating costs. The operating costs - road maintenance, fire station staffing costs, etc. - cannot be funded using impact fees. This requires the question to be asked, if we collect and spend these impact fees on project X, will project X generate sufficient additional tax revenues to offset its annual operating cost? Impact fees are not recurring revenues, they are one time. Some have tried to compare Sumter County impact fees to other counties, it’s not an apples to apples comparison because each county had difference needs and designations for its impact fees. Sumpter County’s unique demographic and building requires do not, at this time, additional impact fees being levied, but even this is scheduled for its 5-year review in the upcoming fiscal year for Sumter County.

These are just a few of the key points on this issue, it is much more involved than most realize. This is what you’ve elected the county officials to understand, evaluate, and make the difficult decisions on.

I could spend the rest of the day typing here on this topic, but I have a busy day ahead of me. I, the other County Commissioners, and the county staff are willing to talk and meet with residents on this and other matters, you can arrange a call or meeting by contacting the county office main number found at Sumtercountyfl.gov.

I would recommend you attending the Sumter County Resident Academy and get a little more understanding on how things work in Sumter County and follow that up with the Villages Resident Academy to understand The Villages.

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

We had an accident about a month ago on Meggison near the Leesburg/Lake County border, but in Sumter. The Wildwood police and fire engines were the first on the scene. I’m not sure if the fire department itself was Wildwood? Law enforcement definitely was. They had been giving out citations on Meggison. Speeders have become a major issue. Many cars are traveling at Mach speed between 6-8 am on the road.

2 fire service - Village Public Safety Department (VPSD) and Sumter County Fire and EMS (SCFEMS)
1 - VPSD
2 - VPSD
3 - SCFEMS
4 - SCFEMS

on your scenario #3, there are a few small outlying areas adjacent to The Villages that are not a part of The Villages that are also serviced by VPSD, but these are the exceptions and not very common.

There are two services in Sumter County. One is Sumter County Fire and EMS (SCFEMS) and the other is the Villages Public Safety Department (VPSD).

The simplest way of thinking about it: If you are within the outline of the Villages then VPSD will be called. If you are outside the outline of the Villages then SCFEMS will be called.

There is a map on page 17 of this VPSD presentation (looks to be from 2021 or so) that shows the service area of the VPSD. Anything outside that area but within Sumter County is handled by SCFEMS.

well all new beds for all and better food

Having 2 fire departments is a convoluted mess.

And to quote “We painted ourselves into a corner” sums it up

Hoping overlap dissolves
 

Agreed. One has to ask if it is “The Villages” as a separate entity or city, or are we associated more with the link like Leesburg or Wildwood? The conflation is confusing. I know we just got our warning shot tax letter (for fanning the flames at the Everglades meeting), and the statement demonstrated that Wildwood got a good chunk of local tax change. Both municipalities get their cut of the pie and collect enforcement fines etc. What should their roles be if they are getting taxpayer income? The locus of services and control seems macro when getting funds, yet micro when convenient.

Eventually we should equilibrate as an Ocala Marion County setup like Lady Lake and The Villages in Sumter?

Didn't this political organization win a forty million suit for our neighbors in the historical side? Maybe its an organization that we should consider joining.

How are they set up??

WOW, watch your mail for your notice. Already go ours.... talk about inflation ! How many more things, taxes, fuel, electricity, food, water, can go up at this rate ? Really has us worried in a serious way.

Wildwood charges Villagers 2.287 per year
 

I wonder what our Municipality taxes go towards? Wildwood charges St. Catherine, Hawkins, Cason Hammock and Citrus Grove residents 2.287. If it isn’t used for fire, what is the continuing tax used for? On top of that there is a county MSBU tax. Do the services just overlap and you get what you get?

Notice how they complicate everything as much as they can to make it hard for us taxpayers to totally understand where our money goes.

https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/Agend...4?fileID=41435

Thank the state and federal governments for that, they make all the accounting rules that complicate the process.

What I find hard to understand is why the study done by an outside organization wasn’t explained better. This study our commissioners had done and paid for had homeowners paying a little over $320 per residence and businesses paying per square foot. I looked up other counties and that is what they do. Examples are Lake and Orange Counties. Even Fort Lauderdale does this. As areas become more populated and metropolitan they need to raise larger amounts for fire fees.

What wasn't explained well in the study?

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

Pretty good explanation of how Lake County does it!

https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/Fire/Fire-Assessment

I doubt that explanation would have made a difference to the residents who did not want to pay an additional $200 or to the businesses that did not want to pay anything more than $124.

It is good information but to those who wanted to see a $0 increase it would only be rationalization. (Heck, most didn't read the study anyway)

Agree % increase is high. New cost around $330. Had not been raised in years.

Good ?s and I bet some of us have more. Problem is that there is too much overlap in TV. Too much time bickering about this < $17 a month "increase" especially when a lot of residents were complaining about wait times for EMS and fire. Can' have your cake and eat it too.

The cart is in Front of the Horse
Before we argue who pays what and how, we need to know and agree what the required expenditures are. I have not seen any public document that addresses why the very large cost and personnel increases are justified. This is something that the Sumter County Commissioners need to review and address.

1. Budget Review and Personnel Planning
There is a need for a fundamental review of why the two Fire Districts/entities need some 50 million dollars more and many more firefighting personnel to serve Sumter Co. I have not seen any discussion on this topic and I believe it is the starting point and the fundamental issue.

2. How To fund The Approved Plan and Budget
This is what the study addressed and looking at how other Counties/Districts financed their budgets is instructive and provides a comparison to Sumter County approach. It appears to me that Sumter County lays the burden more heavily on the homeowner compared to Businesses. Why should the Lofts, for example, only pay the same as any single home owner and not much more since the Lofts have many housing units. Lake County spreads out the cost in a more equitable way.

Looking back at the discussions regarding the Independent Fire District discussions and vote, I believe that the IFD was not approved since there was no indication of how the Sumter County Budget would be revised. It is time to have it all out in the open and explained clearly IMHO.

Impact Fees Need to be Raised
 

The county commissioners could pay for all this by raising the impact fees of the developer to what they should be. The Villages Developer pays only 40 percent of the cost of new roads and nothing for other infrastructure like fire, law enforcement.etc. Perhaps they are getting breaks because of the schools they have donated etc?

What is spectacular to me is how all this wasn’t delineated for the public and set forth in the up till midnight meeting. Wasn’t a company supposed to research the proposals? Wasn’t the research report thorough enough? All the commissioners should have voted no. Kudos to those who did. How are we even getting inputs that RV park owners would have paid almost a half million in taxes per year? Does that seem fair and right to anyone?

What really needs to happen is a lined expenditure report submitted by the fire department and a centralized plan for implementing sound funding for the needs of the department.

See item 4) in post #132 for information on impact fees. This fee is for recurring costs, not what impact fees are used for.

There is a study that explains the rate structure. It was presented to the Commissioners and presumably their questions were answered.

The $490,000 charge to the RV park is not believable. That *might* be the combined fee plus property tax but without more information we can`t know.

Detailed budgets can be found on the VCCDD page and the Sumter County page for any who want to look.

So obviously this post was a waste of my time. Many keep going on and on with their misinformation without trying to get the facts, only believing what they want to believe.

I’ve had my head buried in the county budgets for the last 5 years, this past year every more so. I’ve presented you with the facts based on years of experience of reviewing these budgets. I have not agenda here beyond sharing facts with all of you. If it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad, I’m indifferent as long as it’s factual.

Do I like where I live? Absolutely! The villages is an incredible community and Sumter County could not possibly be any better in my opinion. Some think I have some bias for the village or think I receive some kind of compensation from them, neither is true. But I do have an affinity for a job well done. I worked 20 years in commercial construction, as a project manager for a majority of that time, to manage a project on a scale such as this is a testament to their ability. When it’s good I let you know and when it’s bad I don’t hesitate to let loose with both barrels.

Generally I try to be positive, if you want negativity the pseudo-news site and Nextdoor are where you should go.

I’ve received the developer’s ire on more than a few occasions over my videos, the stuff I reveal, and sharing my opinion, I stopped caring long ago what they think of me.

Deal with facts and not speculation and innuendo and enjoy life a little more.

I had no qualms about paying the increased fee and loved that the businesses were going to pay their fair share. But.... apparently the businesses, ( T & D and Galaxy), that do a lot of work for the developer launched a campaign to deep six the increase. Since the Daily Sun was involved in this campaign you would have to think that all of this had the developer's blessing. When in Oz remember who is behind the curtain.

Not the first time this has happened and probably won't be the last. Need some good ideas to counter it the next time.