I do know of a couple of kids living in TV in direct violation of the covenants. In one instance, the father died and the mother is serving in Iraq. The neighbors are well aware of the grandchild living there. They also know the circumstances. The grandparents are aware they are in violation but everyone felt it was in the best interests of all for the child to stay here. The grandparents actually spoke to each of their neighbors to explain the situation and all are in agreement that the child can stay for two years. The child is quiet and well-behaved and the darling of the block. Pool use is a non-issue -- they have their own pool. Neighbors fight to babysit. I doubt they would be as willing if it were a permanent situation but it is temporary and the child is truly adorable.

In the other situation that I know of, the grandparents were not as forthright and it is creating major issues. Odds are the grandparents will be selling their home and moving away -- they have custody of their grandson, who has some major issues. No one has reported them but the neighbors are pretty unhappy.

There are other rules broken in TV -- some deliberate, some completely unknowingly. I got a notice because my Queen Palm was trimmed on a Saturday but pick up wasn't until Wednesday. I thought it was okay to leave the fronds in the driveway. Apparently not. This was one time I ignored the notice since I knew it would be taken care of before anything could be done.

I have a neighbor working on his antique car in the driveway -- a definite no-no. He'll continue doing so until Community Watch stops it. He cleans up every afternoon and if the car isn't going to be worked on the following day, it goes into the garage. Most of us in this development won't report him. I'm sure one snowbird will if she comes down before the work is done.

The point is rules are broken and, personally, I think things should be taken on a case-by-case basis. A lot will depend on the neighbors as to what happens. Some things (unkempt lawns/weeds/dirty exterior) will be reported by CW when noticed. Some things will only come to light if someone complains. Some things will be discovered by TV because of ID cards, etc., especially now that everyone over the age of 1 must have some sort of card to use any TV facility.

I'm curious. Can children in their 30s and 40s live with their parents in The Villages? I know of one young fellow (maybe 35) in Chatham who lives with his parents. He wanders the streets after dark. While he appears to be harmless, people have been startled to see him plodding down the road at all hours of the night. There was one neighborhood report that he became confused and wandered into the wrong house late one evening.

He will be gone for months, then return for months. It's kinda strange.

A question to the wise ones?
 

An in area guest gets a guest pass good for 1 year, who counts to see how many days in a year their children are here? What's fair is fair. As to the question of why a child would want to stay longer let's figure this out, Mom & Dad aren't here, pools, golf cart, music, eating out, nice weather, staying up late. Sounds pretty good to me. I know my grandaughter can't wait to come down in August.

Gee, I don't think anybody is talking about 31 days instead of 30. (The specific example in the initial question was about a child visiting for 25 days, leaving, returning for 25 days.)

I have two issues with this. The smaller one BY FAR is: Say only 20 percent of Villagers believe the rules don't apply to them. Today that would be about 16,000 Villagers. Now 16,000 kids overstaying an extra month here and an extra month there, on top of the allowable visitations, is significant.

I agree with Redwitch about isolated hardship cases. But the attitude, oh, who would know if I let my grandchild visit for two months-- no. It adds up. By all means visit your grandkids often. Invite them down for a month. But please, respect your neighbors and the covenance you signed your name to.

The larger issue to me BY FAR is, what the heck are we teaching our children anymore. My parents taught us not to lie and cheat. They set the example. They would never in a million years let us catch them lying or cheating, nor tolerate it if we did. How else do children learn integrity?

YES, we are talking about a little white lie here. Getting a visitor pass under a false name, or however you pull it off. So now the grandchild has a false name on his or her visitor pass. Do you then tell the child to use a different name on the second visit? Do you let your grandchild catch you in a lie!? Can you then teach him or her not to lie and cheat?

Sure, everyone tells little white lies. But in front of the grandchildren? Really?

I believe that you are completely and absolutely right.

Hi,
I am new to these boards, but have to put my 2 cents worth in. :D Pturner, I think you could become my new best friend. I totally agree with your statement, esp. about what we are teaching our children, and the lack of morals overall today. Everyone just wants to do what they want, and no one has any consideration for any one. Slightly off topic for a min. but twice lately, I have been in the ladies room and discovered a mother has brought her son in there with her. OK, normally this does not bother me as I understand some of the risks involved with children and strangers in the restrooms. I can understand Mothers being cautious when in airport BR's or large public areas with more than 1 exit. BUT, both of these instances were at local , family oriented reataurants with smal BR's with only 1 entrance and exits. AND in both cases, the boys wer not little. The first case involved 2 boys at least 13 or 14. And the last case involved a boy who was at least 11 or 12. What if I had spilled something on my blouse and had to remove it to clean the area. HELLO???? Sorry for the long story to make a point that no one cares about anything except what works for them.
In the case of children in TV-my husband and I are moving from the town I grew up in-I have never lived anywhere else except when I was a baby. We are selling our house, and so many things that were so important to us because we want to downsize. We are leaving friends and family, wonderful doctors and vet. to move to an area that is 55 and over. We would not be doing this if we thought the area is going to be less than what we have been told. I don't mean to be unsympathetic to the child that lost his father, and his mother is in the service. But if you let that child live in TV, what will stop someone else having the same story-which is all to common these days-where the grandparents wind up raising their grandchildren for numerous reasons. How can you let one and not the others? And maybe the child is quiet and behaves now, but what about the future. And if that family breaks a rule and gets by with it, how can you truely enforce other rules? Is there a list of rules it is ok to break, and a list of rules that should be enforced?? I appologize for the length of my response, but we are going to a lot of time, money and trouble to move to our wonderful retirement home, and it is not fair for people to decide what rules they individually are going to observe--or not.

Pturner I agree with you and VT2TV - I HAVE to agree with you.:kiss:

Sounds like he may have a mental illness. Anyway, the simple answer is yes -- so long as the child is over 19, they can live permanently with their parents, friends, lovers, on their own .....

As a teacher I agree that parents and grandparents are not always the best judge as to whether a child has good behavior.

Do remember that this child is not using any TV facilities and all neighbors are in total agreement to this child staying until the mother comes back. I'm not saying it is right to break the rules, but I do believe that there should be exceptions to rules, especially if those affected by this breaking are not only okay with it but are thrilled that the rule is being broken (the neighbors LOVE this child and are happy to be its great-aunts and uncles -- they literally fight to babysit). Sorry, folks, but sometimes I think compassion is more important than any rule (I will stop on the side of a road to help a lost animal even though signs are posted saying no stopping). Also, this child does not have an ID card that I know of. The grandparents aren't lying to anyone, they're just not informing TV that a child is living with them and the neighbors are happily keeping silent as well. So far as I know, had even one neighbor objected, they would have found another solution to having their grandchild live with them.

I don't know about you, but I have been told that omitting to tell something is the same as lying. I believe it is called lying by omission. The neighbors are just as guilty as the violators. Those grandparents should take that grand-child and move/rent in an appropriate location until the child can be with his/her parent.

I'm with Redwitch on this one. If all those affected are ok with this, and no facilities are used, why on earth would anyone care if this child is there?
Compassion is a wonderful thing. I think a lot of folks should lighten up or find another ax to grind, preferably one which affects them.

Stick by the rules..
 

You either have rules or you don't . If you start making exceptions then the rules are gone.......Our community is a beautiful place because of the rules .start braking them and there goes the neighborhood....There are hardship cases everywhere so we have to be careful how we lean..
We pay a high premium for our houses here because of our unique lifestyle , and I for one don't want to get very flexible on the rules...There will always be a neighbor who wants to plant a milkweed in the middle of his front yard and convince you that he will dig it up as soon as the season is over....Now I know this couldn't really happen because some dog would pee on it anyway ...
Rules are rules folks , if we ignore them we'll all end up living like they do in New York, or Chicago or Wildwood... oops , well you know what I mean...

by the numbers fumar ............:22yikes:

No, I did not forget that the child is not using any facilities. That is not the issue. First of all, unless you are not only the grandparent in question, but also every neighbor in the area in question, you really cannot speak as to how they truely feel about the child and also about him staying there. There are many people who would go along with what they are told to do in fear that they would be ostracized by the grandparents and the grandparents friends. I agree with previous poster that not telling TV is in itself lying and blatently disregarding the rules. If they think what they are doing is ok, what would be the harm in disclosing the facts to TV? Secondly, keeping the child at TV is not really a good environment for the child if you are being honest. Even infants and toddlers need the social interaction of their age group--even if it is only for a couple of years. Keeping the child around adults and seniors for an extended period-even those who adore the child will adversly affect the child's developement. I do agree that we all need to be compassionate, and if letting in children did not affect anyone but the g-parents, I would say --good luck. But if one breaks the rules, I can guarantee that it will only snowball, and if you do it for one, you must do it for everyone.
Lastly, I learned tonight that one family member does not even need to be 55 because of some 80/20% law. So actually there is nothing to stop people in their 20's, 30's, or 40's from moving into the villages. When you start bringing in people of that age, I guess you can expect many children to follow, and perhaps provide that interaction for that chld living in TV. I am not happy about that, and the sales people certainly didn't tell us that. I personally want to move to TV to get away from children running around. All this is JMHO. BTW---I am glad you stop to help animals:thumbup:, and i honestly don't think anyone is doing the child a favor by keeping him in TV-perhaps the g-parents could move somewhere nearby where the child could be with others his own age.

We do not adhere to all of the Villages Rules
 

any more than we obeyed all the laws in the state and municipalities from which we came. How many of us have had a man with a lantern walk in front of our cars at night? Everyone of us have lived or driven through states or communities where this is still the law. Sodomy, both homosexual and heterosexual, remains illegal in a number of states even if it is between consenting adults or husband and wife. Here in Florida, for example, it is against the law to tie your elephant to a parking meter or take your shower naked. There are literally thousand of such laws in every state in the Union as well as for the nation. Google 'dumb laws' in Google - you can be very amused by the seeming idiocy by today's standards of most of these laws.

So what does this have to do with The Villages? Everything! 99% of us ignore the rule on post signs that specifies the size, shape and coloring of sign background and letters. Illuminated post lamps signs are strictly a no-no. I discovered this when a went to a local merchant and tried to order a sign. He had a copy of the rules and would make only signs that conformed to them. Go look it up. Other rules are simply ignored if they are occurring for only a short time. My neighbor parks his boat in the drive the day before and the day after a race. In the meantimes he parks it off property. Should I object? It would kill his lifetime passion. How many lawn mowers to you hear fired up before 8 AM? Do I report my neighbor for wanting to complete his lawn work before the heat of the day? Another one of my neighbor's lawn became overgrown while he was in the Hospital and his wife did not know what to do. Should we have reported the situation or simply do what we did - a group of us going out mowing, edging, trimming and weeding?

What we need is not rigid adherence to the rules but rather a little bit of common sense and neighborliness. All of us came to the Villages to enjoy ourselves. To those who disagree, I recommend the 'Golden Rule'.

JMHO