What's wrong with you folks? The kids Dad is dead and his Mom is serving this country overseas. We should be helping not threating to report for breaking a rule.
In Russia they used to have a person on each block to keep awatch on everything done and said, anything out of line or in conflick with the rules of the state was reported to the K.G.B.


"FRIENDILY?" O.K.

I wonder if TV has just become too big too effectively monitor/enforce restrictions and convenants? With over 70,000 people and 30,000 households maybe it's just not feasable.

I'm all for them and feel if you have them they need to be enforced fairly for everyone. Might be easier in smaller communities?

Ok, I find this is be an interesting issue and I am not taking sides here but what happens when you make an exception to a rule and someone down the road gets turned in? Is the answer it was ok then but not now? Point I am trying to make is that when you make one exception you quite possibly are opening a can of worms.

Oh Buc.

That is sad indeed. BBQman your examples are silly. Rules are made for us here to be comfortable in a retirement community. Who among us does not love children?

Please read again P.Turners post.

Redwitch, if this place were administered on a case to case situation it would be hopelessly mired in red tape just like the rest of this country. Who decides what? I believe that if it were MY grandchild, I would rent out my house, it is not that hard in TV. All of us have unforseen difficult circumstances that occur from time to time.

And truly, as it has been stated, the houses do cost more than in other areas. If we wanted to live with different rules, we could get a lot more house elsewhere.

I am really not as heartless and mean as this sounds. It is just the kind of thing I wanted to escape in TV. There are so many problems calling out to any of us who have been raised to be responsible and especially those with kind hearts.

P.S. The rules say that boats and campers and RVs can be parked for a short time.... I think.

Compassion seems to be old fashioned as well, at least on this thread.
It's doubtful that anyone really wants the child to live with the grandparents. This is a temporary state until his mom returns from her overseas tour.
Apparently it would be preferable for the child to live in a box, under a bridge, as long as there were other kids around so he could be properly socialized.
Oh, yeah, they can rent out the house and move for a few months. That'll serve them right. Imagine them having the nerve to inconvenience their neighbors. Wait a minute, the neighbors support this living arrangement. Who's being hurt? Doesn't matter does it. Rules are rules. Never, ever, ever bend a break a rule, no matter what the reason. Next thing you know, we'll have folks moving in here who'll go through the express line with 16 items. Before you know it people will be taking a mulligan on the golf course.
If anyone has never broken a rule and will never, ever break a rule, step forward. Anyone ever have another person look the other way when they broke a rule? If a trooper fails to write you a ticket when you passed him or her doing 45 in a 40, how often do you turn around and insist that they issue you a summons. Rules are rules, right?
A world without compassion would be a sad place. Give these folks a break.

I believe that has been discussed. The neighbors support this living arrangement. Whether or not you believe them is another story. All we know is what they say.
I suspect the only thing you would believe is that the neighbors told a big, fat lie and would really like the kid on the next thing smoking out of TV.

That's where things get sticky.

Should there be a disclaimers in all of the restrictions that reads "unless all of the neighbors agree?".

aside from the no children past 30 days rule
 

Back to how they enforce violations: yesterday at the pool our id's got checked - we asked what they do if you don't have your id. The answer sounded like "It depends."

For instance, this guy said he would note it on his report pad (I think just for himself) and if a day or two later the same thing happens with the same people, he might write a warning.

If he thinks someone has guests consistently from the 3 counties that I don't think can qualify for guest passes, or for flagrant flaunting of the id rule (such as he said he has one guy that is refusing to carry/show his pass just because he doesn't like the rule), then it is possible to have someone's ID use rescinded for a period of time in punishment. Couldn't play golf, use pools or use rec centers. I don't think he can do it on his own, probably has to go thru channels and someone higher up or some committee may have to approve this, not sure.

I think that rescinding IDs is what they have done to those residents found cheating the golf system in the past.

I really didn't mean to start such an issue. I was simply trying to say that sometimes the rules are broken and, if they are, it is frequently up to neighbors to do what they feel is necessary. In the one instance, the child is here for the two years. End of conversation. In the other, the child will probably be gone pretty soon because a neighbor will report the child living there (he is totally out of control -- probably has foetal alcohol syndrome or effect), plus the grandparents do have their house on the market -- this child will grow up with the grandparents. It is not a temporary situation.

Given a choice, I would much rather live next door to a child than next door to an adult child/grandchild who just got out of drug rehab, is taking psychotropic drugs for a severe mental illness or is on parole/probation. Yet, these examples can stay here because they are all over 19 and I personally know of a few cases (one of whom lives two doors from me -- YUCK).

For visible violations, Community Watch will take action. If the weeds or lawn are out of control, a notice is left on the door. If not taken care of within the time limits, TV will have it done for you; you will get billed for the work plus a fine of some sort (you don't pay and it goes on your amenity bill and then a lien on your home).

As to the ID card issue, it really is up to whomever is checking IDs. Some will absolutely deny you entrance to the rec center or pool, although there is a form you can/should fill out if you forgot your ID. If it is flagrant and ongoing, the odds are you will be reported and your ID suspended for a certain period of time. Again, it is up to whomever is doing the checking.

I've been known to forget my ID when playing bridge. Sometimes I have had to fill out a sheet stating that I am a legal resident and entitled to use the facilities (name, address, signature required). Sometimes I've just been waved through. It depends who is working, how well they know me, what their mood is.

Basically, TV is not perfect nor are its residents. Some will break the rules (heck, we all break one rule or another at one time or another -- it's the nature of our beasts). The majority here are over 55, law-abiding, respectful and, sadly, conservative. :throwtomatoes: :wink: Some homeowners are under 55 (still less than 20%, I believe). Some homeowners have children and/or grandchildren over 19 living with them for various reasons (temporary until child finds a job or recovers from an illness; temporary until child gets into trouble with the law or starts using drugs again; permanent due to illness -- physical or mental). The vast majority are truly wonderful people regardless of their age and political bent.

If you truly want to live in a society where rules are never broken, where everything is exactly as promised, I suggest you move to Arlington National Cemetary -- it might be one of the few places where the inhabitants truly are 100% in compliance.

If a person has their ID rescinded, do they have any redress? Can they appeal the decision? Is there a hearing? Is the decision of the CDD final and irreversible? Is it done by a committee, a arbitrator or a resident? Who determines the length of the sentence?

Well, this thread certainly has gone on for a while. I would like to readdress a few things. First, and FOREMOST in this particular instance-most people are not thinking about the child. It is being covered up in discussions about whether he should be here or not because of "the rules". This situation is NOT optimal for the child!!! It is merely convenient for the grandparents, who I suppose don't want to rent out their home or move, because this is "only" fr 2 years. This is really what is wrong with the situation. It is NOT in the child's best interest to spend 2 of his very formative years surrounded only by adults, and older adults at that. It will affect his social skills and his ability to interact with children his own age. Any child developement specialist will agree with that. Children need to be with other children their own age. Not only it important for their social skills, but it is important to be around authority figures that will not consistently indulge them, and if like most grandparents speak "baby talk" to them. So the child staying at TV is only convenient for the grandparents and not in the best interests of the child. Also, since the father is deceased, what is to stop the mother from deciding that she wants to continue to stay on at TV when she gets out of the service After 2 years, how could you then say that they cannot stay because the child is not supposed to stay more than 30 days a year.
And how can anyone ask the rowdy child to leave just because someone doesn't like the way he acts. Sorry, but things don't work that way. If you allow one person to break the rules, you can't suddenly try to apply them to another person. What happens if someone moves near the sweet child that does object to a child living with the grandparents?
I agree that this is a sad situation with the father dead, and the mother in the service. But this world is VERY much full of sad, sad situations. If you start letting emotions make decisions for such a large area with this many people, it won't be long before everyone will want an exception made because of..........(fill in the blank). Rules are made to protect the rights of the majority of the people. Every single one on you on this board knew the rules and regulations before you moved into the area, and there is no reason to be offensive by making references to "comrades" or "conservatives" just because they are trying to do the RIGHT thing by respecting these rules. I would very much like to thank the young mother who is serving our country. My own husband also served our country in Vietnam, and was blown up by a booby trap. He suffered severe injuries, and has had cancer and diabetes directly related to time spent in the infantry. He is now retired, and I have never seen him so excited about almost anything as he is about moving to the Villages. I imagine most of the people who move here are looking forward to moving to an area that they have been told was severly child restricted to 30 days a year. People of this age have raised their children, and are not as tolerant of children as they used to be. Should there be any less compassion offered to them by not expecting the rules everyone has agreed to to be enforced for EVERYONE equally. Again, every one has or has had a sad situation.
I agree with whoever said that with such a large area, once you start letting things slide, TV will start falling apart. Not because of one situation, but that one situation will beome 2 and the 2 will become 3, and etc..... Maybe every household in the Villages can each choose 1 rule to break that they don't like-because that is what is being done now by the grandparents. If you don't like the rules, just ignore them. And if TV knows that the rules are being broken, and they do nothing, then any time they try to enforce any rule could be deemed discrimination, and talk about stirring things up then!!!!!
Again, it boils down to 2 main things: 1. EVERYONE who moves here is aware of the rules, and if they should not have come if they were not going to abide by them. 2. If you are not happy with the rules, then I would think you would be putting your house on the market for sale, because why would you want to live with rules you don't agree with.

1. Why would you assume the child has no interaction with other children? There are pre-schools, schools, day care, all kinds of activities for children in and out of TV, other children visit their grandparents in this neighborhood. This little one is very active in activities from preschool to gymnastics to dance -- all of which ensure playtime with other children.

2. I truly doubt TV is aware this child is living here. I know that when my daughter lived with me, someone reported that I had a 17 YO living with me. She had to show her driver's license to Community Watch to prove she was 22 not once but twice. If TV knew, there is no doubt in my mind that the grandparents would have to come up with another solution.

3. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how much anyone here objects to this child living here. You don't know where the child lives and, thus, you cannot report it to anyone. It is up to the neighbors to do what they deem is appropriate -- no one else can. You can rail about the grandparents breaking the rules until you're blue in the face. Doesn't matter -- the child will still be here until the mother returns.

While the grandparents love their grandchild and their daughter, they want their lives back, too. They bought into TV lock, stock and barrel. There is no way that the mother or child would be here a day longer than necessary -- two years was the maximum time. Should something happen to the mother, I'm sure the grandparents would find another solution. It is one thing for a pre-schooler (or younger) to live in TV for a set period of time, it is another for a child in school with friends visiting, etc. to live here. The grandparents know and understand this.

4. If a rule is being broken and you object to that rule being broken, you do have recourse -- contact Community Watch. It will be checked out and proper steps will be taken.

The only point I was trying to make was that rules are broken. We ALL have choices, especially when it comes to rules -- follow them, ignore them, deliberately break them, move to another locale if you don't like those rules. We also have choices when we see a rule is broken -- explain to the individual what the rule is and hope they quit breaking it; go along with the offender by allowing the rule to be broken; call an authority to stop the breaking of the rule. You do have recourse if you choose to take them. The choice really is up to you.

I don't want to get into a discussion about the morality of breaking a rule or condoning the breaking of a rule. It is an individual choice. In this case, I choose to stand with the grandparents and the neighbors who have opted to let the child stay. Yes, we are all culpable but I can live with my choice and, obviously, so can the neighbors. I could not live with forcing these loving people to choose between their dream (TV) or their grandchild.

Everyone breaks rules of some sort -- sometimes knowingly, sometimes out of ignorance. Some rules are truly important (not murdering someone is a pretty rule); some are minor (no jaywalking in my mind); some are downright silly (showering in the nude). Regardless, we all decide which rules we choose to follow and which ones we choose to break. But I doubt there is one person who can say (and honestly believe) that they follow every rule every time (think of the small piece of paper you threw on the ground; the time you drove a little too fast; ....). So far as we know, only one person has been perfect and even He had a heck of temper and knowingly broke some rules (He was arrested, tried and crucified).

How do you know
 

I'm stiill waiting for a reply to the question regarding how do you know which kid is which, DNA, fingerprints?
Here's one no one thought of, how about twins or triplets,. et al.? How abow the pregnancy plant that had eight kids, octomom? Who keeps score and what kind of scorecard would they use?
Personally, IDC. I keep my nose in my own home.

TH, I don't see where a formal process is specified on TV website.

http://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/deedrestrict.aspx

I found a link that provides a good overview of how deed restrictions are typically handled. As you can see, it's not TV-specific:

http://www.cityofbartlesville.org/ca...20Brochure.pdf

Since a deed restriction is basically a contract between the developer and property owners, I would guess that if a homeowner didn't agree with a ruling by the deed compliance office, his or her recourse would be filing a civil suit. That is, unless a different method is specified in the deed restriction itself. I don't remember.

Absent any other method specified in the contract (i.e., deed restriction), civil court is how contract disputes are settled. At least that's what I think, TH. Do you see it differently?

Hi SABRMnLgs,

You are right. You don't alway find out when somebody cheats. Just as some people get away with crimes, some people get away with contract violations. It happens.

We are required by our deed covenant to register our guests under 19 years old. We are contractually bound (by our deed agreement) to attest to our guests' age, identity and length of stay. A guest pass would be denied for an under-aged person who had already stayed 30 days during the calendar year.

Some people cheat. Some people don't register their under-aged visitors or lie on their registration forms. No one takes a DNA sample when you register a guest. Maybe it will come to that if enough break the rules.

Some people break the rules and don't get caught. If Community Watch or a neighbor reported a suspected violation, it would be investigated. Maybe if asked questions, the violator would lie. Maybe the violator would get away with it. It happens in criminal court. It happens in civil court. No doubt it happens in TV deed compliance cases.

The fact that some people break the rules is no excuse in my book to break the rules. It's no excuse for law enforcement, civil authorities, deed compliance officers or affected neighbors to throw up their hands and forget about trying to enforce the rules they are trying to live by.