Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Villages Golf Cart Store Breaks The Law? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/villages-golf-cart-store-breaks-law-243662/)

golfing eagles 07-10-2017 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMoyers (Post 1422576)
I thnk we need to go to basics. I agree with the writer who pointed out our autos go much faster than the posted speed limit. The driver controls the speed of it and his/her golf cart. Owning a cart faster than 20 is not a violation of the law. Driving it over 20 is. Next we will be discussing whether carts should be fastened to tracks like at Disney, so the cart can't go where it is not allowed.

Actually, owning a golf cart that can go over 20 is not a violation of the law, however driving it is. Even if you aren't driving over 20, the mere fact that it is capable of going over 20 is a violation. And if you get into an accident, your golf cart insurance will not cover you. If it is capable of going over 20 (and up to 25) you now own a LSV, which must be registered and insured. Is this law enforced? Not often, unless there is an incident, and then you're screwd.

I do agree that this issue is "driven" by those who don't want to get passed. They are the same people who camp out in the left lane of I 75 at 55 mph or the left lane of 466 at 30 mph. Some of them view themselves as the self appointed dictators of forcing others to drive at the speed that THEY think they should. They are also some of the same people that will cruise a one lane road posted 60 at 40 mph with a parade behind them, UNTIL there is a passing zone, then they speed up to 80 so no one can pass, then back to 40 once it is one lane again. Who cares if someone passes you in an illegal golf cart going 28, it's not your problem. Unsafe passing is a different issue entirely.

twoplanekid 07-10-2017 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMoyers (Post 1422576)
I thnk we need to go to basics. I agree with the writer who pointed out our autos go much faster than the posted speed limit. The driver controls the speed of it and his/her golf cart. Owning a cart faster than 20 is not a violation of the law. Driving it over 20 is. Next we will be discussing whether carts should be fastened to tracks like at Disney, so the cart can't go where it is not allowed.

???? From my post # 17

From the Florida statute 210.01 Definitions, general

(22) “Golf cart” means a motor vehicle that is designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and that is not capable of exceeding speeds of 20 miles per hour.


Capable of exceeding speeds of 20 requires the cart to be registered as a LSV in Florida. see post # 54

MDLNB 07-10-2017 07:07 AM

It is not unlawful for a garage to increase the speed of a golf cart. It is the obligation of the owner to then get it registered. Do not blame the garage for following the customer's instruction. Blame the person for driving that same cart without first getting it registered.

In my opinion, registered golf carts should not be allowed on the multi-modal paths in The Villages, but they do and they pass at speeds up to 30mph on a consistent basis. There are no speed limits on private property, or I should add, no enforceable speed limits on private property.

Villagesgal 07-10-2017 07:13 AM

Why not just talk to the Sumter County Sheriff's people about it? They are the only ones who know the law. Simple as that. Everyone else is just giving their opinion.

merrymini 07-10-2017 07:13 AM

What a nuisance these rules are! Rules that protect me on the road or those that protect me from thieves or destruction to my property. Giving consideration to people around me by following the rules, what a pain! I should be able to do what I want, whenever I want and disregard the rules because I'm me! This is a chant either from a lawless culture or a three year old child. Look around, your life is governed by all kinds of rules which makes our lives safe and comfortable, enforce them!

toeser 07-10-2017 07:15 AM

Not my experience
 
I had the opposite experience. I was told they would not set the governor for more than the legal speed limit. Same garage.

Villagesgal 07-10-2017 07:16 AM

You are basically saying you have no idea as to whether or not it is legal. Check with the Sheriff's office they know the. law.

xcaligirl 07-10-2017 07:17 AM

I agree with Gracie. My car will do over 100mph however I don't drive anything but 5 mph over the speed limit on the freeway/turnpike. Even if someone is driving 17mph doesn't mean they are driving safe! I think they need to concentrate on the quality of the driver around here, not if someone is going 21mph to pass a slow moving cart. I've seen way too many reckless drivers and they weren't exactly speeding, not to mention alcohol induced drivers!

OhioBuckeye 07-10-2017 07:36 AM

Everytime I take my cart in to get it serviced they always have me sign a waver to check my cart speed to see if it's only running 20 mph. That's fine & my cart does run 20 mph on cart paths that are flat, if it has a little grade, no way it'll run 20 mph. Up hill like on Stillwater Path where there's a couple of hills & my cart will only run 14.7 mph. Also ANY cart in TV that I see behind me no matter how far behind it will catch up to me & pass me like I'm sitting still, so what I'm saying the 20 mph so-called laws we have is a bunch of bull, I've only lived here for 6 yrs. & I have NEVER EVER seen a cart pulled over for speeding! Besides I really can't believe all of the carts that pass me have been sped up by the owner. Besides why does everyone want their cart to set land speed record, where they going to be in such a hurry, also I thought this was a semi-retirement community, what's the hurry!

pprentice 07-10-2017 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 1421686)
I was at Gordon's Garage (The Villages Golf Carts) at Lake Sumter Landing today to have a repair done to my cart. When I was paying, I asked the cashier if their shop increases the speed of carts to over the 20 mph limit. She told me that they will do the speed change - but they tell the customer it is illegal and, if in an accident or caught by the police, will result in a fine. I then verified her story with a couple of salesmen.

I think it is very irresponsible of one of the companies owned by The Villages to facilitate breaking the law.

It is akin to a gun dealer knowingly selling a gun to a convicted felon or a liquor store knowingly selling booze to a 12 year old. They can say we are telling you it is illegal but it is your choice.

I think that the Sumter County Sheriff or State of Florida Motor Vehicles should know of this.

They do. If they clock you over 20 on the path then the second your tires touch the street they will ticket you for speeding and for driving an unregistered vehicle. That may be a felony. Then you go to court, pay court fines, you are required to have the dealer reset the speed and return to court, more fees, with the proof.
Not worth it.
You can't cure stupid!

Barboza 07-10-2017 07:49 AM

Speed of Carts
 
[QUOTE=graciegirl;1421689]Whoa Richard.

Your car goes past the speed limit. The driver is the person who controls the speed.

There are isolated times when a person needs more speed to maneuver away from another driver who might harm him/her.




or just to move along a little quicker when no one is behind or ahead of him.

It is illegal to drive more than 20MPH....it shouldn't be illegal to fix a cart to go more than the legal speed limit.[/QUOTE


It is not legal to have a golf cart on the road that is CAPABLE of going over 20mph.

clyde t 07-10-2017 08:33 AM

Well I guess the speed limit is the speed limit. But my car will do well over a hundred miles an hour? What to do what to do? LOL

genobambino 07-10-2017 08:34 AM

If you get caught it will be a big fine, over $500...just ask some of the people that have been caught

Dennis and Rose 07-10-2017 09:00 AM

If the private property has open public access, ie: shopping malls, traffic laws of the local munincipality, and state apply. Example, parking in a handicap spot at the mall, may result in a summons from a Police officer

MangiaMangia 07-10-2017 09:16 AM

Blah blah blah same old topic.
On the flip side - there are times when I am behind someone who is going SO SLOW! Of course I pass them when allowable. My point is that I'm sure these people are content in there slow driving, thinking we are all jerks for going too fast.
I'm with the posters that comment - "We're talking about 2 or 3 MPH difference at 20 not 75MPH.

Polar Bear 07-10-2017 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangiaMangia (Post 1422661)
...I'm with the posters that comment - "We're talking about 2 or 3 MPH difference at 20 not 75MPH.

I also agree with that.

Much ado about very little.

wildjac 07-10-2017 09:43 AM

While I understand your point.....equating this to illegal gun sales is just a tad over the top, don't you think? It is not illegal to own a cart that is capable of traveling at more than 20 mph.....it is illegal to drive a golf cart over 20 mph in The Villages....just like it is illegal to drive your full sized car over 30 mph on most streets in the Villages. It's called "speed limits" and it's up to the "individual" to conform with these restrictions or face consequences when caught. If you felt this strongly about the issue, you should have notified the Sheriffs Dept.......not posted it on TOTV.

Rapscallion St Croix 07-10-2017 09:53 AM

Google has created a huge cadre of unlicensed lawyers.

DonH57 07-10-2017 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix (Post 1422676)
Google has created a huge cadre of unlicensed lawyers.

In the military we had a whole cadre of " barracks lawyers" as well.:agree:

Barefoot 07-10-2017 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1422586)
Even if you aren't driving over 20, the mere fact that it is capable of going over 20 is a violation. And if you get into an accident, your golf cart insurance will not cover you.


My golf cart insurance company said just the opposite. :shrug:
I don't have my cart set over the speed limit, I was just curious.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1422042)
I asked my insurance company about set speeds. They informed me that set speeds aren't relevant.
They told me that it is how fast the cart is going when an incident/accident occurs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMoSno (Post 1422056)
That's what I was told by my insurance company also.
He said in the 18 years he has been writing GC insurance there has never been an instance where a cart was impounded and checked for speed....:shrug:


Bonny 07-10-2017 10:59 AM

So, if the highway speed limit is 70, my car can go faster. Sooooo.... if I drive my car at 80, it's my problem, my fault and I'm getting a ticket. I doubt that the car manufacturers will be responsible because they made it so my car goes faster than the speed limit.
Now, if cart speed is 20 and I get caught driving 25, again, my problem, my fault and I'm getting the ticket.
I could go & get my cart speed raised. Maybe I have a large piece of property & I want to go faster.

txfan 07-10-2017 11:10 AM

How do you plead? "Not guilty." Then request a jury trial.

ColdNoMore 07-10-2017 11:21 AM

Post #21.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1421747)
"Not capable" is the key phrase here.

The Villages Golf Carts is definitely breaking the law, by being the entity that allows an otherwise 'golf cart'... to be capable of speeds in excess of 20 mph.

While we will never see the story in the Sun, there WILL be a case soon whereby someone gets popped by the police for going too fast and then sues the VGC or tells the cops that it was the dealer that set it up that way...or BOTH.

In other words, those who want Gordon's Garage to do it for them (although it's very easy to do yourself and then you become the one culpable for the modification) better hurry...before they quit doing it due to liability issues.


Golf Carts Caught Speeding Get More Than a Speeding Ticket. Carts Speeders BEWARE! Slow Down or Else -- The Villages Golf Post | PRLog
Quote:


Golf cart repair companies and even local mobile repair guys could be held liable for carts that have been modified to exceed the speed limit.


:popcorn:

golfing eagles 07-10-2017 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1422692)
My golf cart insurance company said just the opposite. :shrug:
I don't have my cart set over the speed limit, I was just curious.

I should have specified "if you get into an accident while exceeding 20 mph" Of course, there is unlikely to be any factual evidence as to how fast you were travelling, so the best defense is a cart incapable of exceeding 20

golfing eagles 07-10-2017 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonny (Post 1422693)
So, if the highway speed limit is 70, my car can go faster. Sooooo.... if I drive my car at 80, it's my problem, my fault and I'm getting a ticket. I doubt that the car manufacturers will be responsible because they made it so my car goes faster than the speed limit.
Now, if cart speed is 20 and I get caught driving 25, again, my problem, my fault and I'm getting the ticket.
I could go & get my cart speed raised. Maybe I have a large piece of property & I want to go faster.

But there is a subtle difference in the law:

It is illegal to drive a cart capable of exceeding 20, regardless of the actual speed you are going

It is NOT illegal to drive a car that is capable of exceeding 70

Of course, the cart law in enforced even less often than the speed limit of 70

Carl in Tampa 07-10-2017 02:21 PM

Legal definitions.
 
Does everyone understand that no one in Florida owns a golf cart that goes over 20 mph?

That is because the legal definition of "golf cart" includes the fact that the vehicle is not capable of going over 20 mph.

It may look like a golf cart, but it is not a golf cart. It is also not automatically a Low Speed Vehicle. To be converted to a LSV it must have certain safety items added, be registered with the state, and have a license plate issued.

SO, if you raise the speed capability of your golf cart to above 20 mph, you have a self-propelled vehicle that is not eligible to be operated with the privileges of a golf cart or of a LSV.

You may never get caught. But if you are, it will probably be in connection with a crash or other incident where you are at risk for legal sanctions, either criminal or civil, and the potential for enhanced penalties increases when it is determined that your "self-propelled vehicle" was not legally entitled to be where the incident occurred.

But, please.......... no more posts like "my golf cart will go 25 mph..." If it will go over 20 mph it is not a golf cart.

dewilson58 07-10-2017 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa (Post 1422750)
Does everyone understand that no one in Florida owns a golf cart that goes over 20 mph?

That is because the legal definition of "golf cart" includes the fact that the vehicle is not capable of going over 20 mph.

It may look like a golf cart, but it is not a golf cart. It is also not automatically a Low Speed Vehicle. To be converted to a LSV it must have certain safety items added, be registered with the state, and have a license plate issued.

SO, if you raise the speed capability of your golf cart to above 20 mph, you have a self-propelled vehicle that is not eligible to be operated with the privileges of a golf cart or of a LSV.

You may never get caught. But if you are, it will probably be in connection with a crash or other incident where you are at risk for legal sanctions, either criminal or civil, and the potential for enhanced penalties increases when it is determined that your "self-propelled vehicle" was not legally entitled to be where the incident occurred.

But, please.......... no more posts like "my golf cart will go 25 mph..." If it will go over 20 mph it is not a golf cart.



No.

dewilson58 07-10-2017 02:37 PM

Question:

I'm driving next to 466a. Going 19mph.

I go up hill and my max speed drops to 18mph.

I go down hill and my speed jumps to 21mph.

Do I have a LSV only when I go down hill and otherwise a golf cart??

OR

Do I have a LSV, by definition??

OR

Do I have a golf cart??

OR

Who cares??

:ohdear:

villagerjack 07-10-2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 1421686)
I was at Gordon's Garage (The Villages Golf Carts) at Lake Sumter Landing today to have a repair done to my cart. When I was paying, I asked the cashier if their shop increases the speed of carts to over the 20 mph limit. She told me that they will do the speed change - but they tell the customer it is illegal and, if in an accident or caught by the police, will result in a fine. I then verified her story with a couple of salesmen.

I think it is very irresponsible of one of the companies owned by The Villages to facilitate breaking the law.

It is akin to a gun dealer knowingly selling a gun to a convicted felon or a liquor store knowingly selling booze to a 12 year old. They can say we are telling you it is illegal but it is your choice.

I think that the Sumter County Sheriff or State of Florida Motor Vehicles should know of this.

What was your purpose in asking them this question?

rbeall1942 07-10-2017 03:30 PM

I checked with a Sumter County deputy in uniform, and he said there is no official limit on carts other than that which is posted for all vehicles. That 20 mph limit may be for the other two counties, but it appears to be just a "suggestion" put forth by The Villages management.

dewilson58 07-10-2017 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbeall1942 (Post 1422774)
I checked with a Sumter County deputy in uniform, and he said there is no official limit on carts other than that which is posted for all vehicles. That 20 mph limit may be for the other two counties, but it appears to be just a "suggestion" put forth by The Villages management.

:22yikes:

davidpb 07-10-2017 03:38 PM

Bill! Your car goes faster then the speed limit but the manufactures aren't responsible for your actions .

golfing eagles 07-10-2017 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbeall1942 (Post 1422774)
I checked with a Sumter County deputy in uniform, and he said there is no official limit on carts other than that which is posted for all vehicles. That 20 mph limit may be for the other two counties, but it appears to be just a "suggestion" put forth by The Villages management.

Interesting, since it is a STATE OF FLORIDA law

John_W 07-10-2017 04:32 PM

http://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2...age_232004.jpg

Steve9930 07-10-2017 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 1421686)
I was at Gordon's Garage (The Villages Golf Carts) at Lake Sumter Landing today to have a repair done to my cart. When I was paying, I asked the cashier if their shop increases the speed of carts to over the 20 mph limit. She told me that they will do the speed change - but they tell the customer it is illegal and, if in an accident or caught by the police, will result in a fine. I then verified her story with a couple of salesmen.

I think it is very irresponsible of one of the companies owned by The Villages to facilitate breaking the law.

It is akin to a gun dealer knowingly selling a gun to a convicted felon or a liquor store knowingly selling booze to a 12 year old. They can say we are telling you it is illegal but it is your choice.

I think that the Sumter County Sheriff or State of Florida Motor Vehicles should know of this.

No law is broken until the vehicle is put on the road by the owner. They then will need to clocked going over the limit for a golf cart.

jsw14 07-10-2017 05:46 PM

U R so Right Steve......:)

Carl in Tampa 07-10-2017 06:27 PM

Ignorant is not stupid.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rbeall1942 (Post 1422774)
I checked with a Sumter County deputy in uniform, and he said there is no official limit on carts other than that which is posted for all vehicles. That 20 mph limit may be for the other two counties, but it appears to be just a "suggestion" put forth by The Villages management.

If your "self-propelled vehicle" will go over 20 mph, then it is not a golf cart. Posted speed limits are irrelevant, unless they are under 20 mph, like on Paige Place approaching Spanish Springs Town Center.

You apparently encountered a Sumter County Deputy who was ignorant of State Law on this subject. That's strange for someone who works in a golf cart community.

Links to the Florida law have already been posted repeatedly on this thread. I see no point in doing it again.

mtdjed 07-10-2017 07:00 PM

So, in summary, in response to the original poster's question, no problem for someone to sell or modify your cart to go over 20 MPH with your approval. Now we can put on our big peoples pants and be responsible for our own actions. Can it be any more simple than that?

My plan is to have somebody to modify my cart to get to the golf ball first so I can improve my lie. Or is it lay? Whoops! I guess I can walk there faster.

Polar Bear 07-10-2017 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa (Post 1422872)
...You apparently encountered a Sumter County Deputy who was ignorant of State Law on this subject. That's strange for someone who works in a golf cart community...

So strange it may not be true. Maybe he was just speaking of a County cart speed enforcement policy.

tmbromley 07-10-2017 08:34 PM

Get real. You control the cart with your right foot and by keeping an eye on the speedometer. You are the one that speeds not the cart. But the only place you'd be breaking the law is on the public roads - the police have no jurisdiction on the recreation paths but any one driving needs to BE CAREFUL. Drive with caution - I see people driving too fast in the wrong places. It is the drivers responsibility to drive in accordance with the law no matter what the cart is capable of doing. If you don't want the risk don't mess with your carts top speed. You get the ticket - ignorance is no excuse!


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