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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   What does "drinking the kool-aid" really mean? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-does-drinking-kool-aid-really-mean-65329/)

2BNTV 12-08-2012 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eweissenbach (Post 590297)
I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDave (Post 591192)
You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Thoughful intelliigent posts. :bigbow:

Villages PL 12-08-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDave (Post 591215)
....I just want the freedom to ask questions.

I think it's totally reasonable to expect to be able to ask any question without being treated like an enemy of The Villages or an enemy of the developer. I think all questions should be treated seriously and respectfully.
Those who don't like a question can always refrain from participating. To be purposely disruptive, or disrespectful to any question, is to make The Villages look bad and doesn't "fix" anything.


Quote:

I've never been one for blind faith when it comes to anything.
Good for you. As far as a replacement-phrase I would like to offer the following: Victim of Faith

MSG@TV 12-08-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDave (Post 591192)
You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Liked what you had to say.

OldDave 12-08-2012 01:19 PM

Thanks again to everyone for the kind words, it is nice to hear from positive people. And Victim of Faith is a pretty interesting turn of phrase.

senior citizen 12-08-2012 01:38 PM

The Political Correctness Of “Merry Christmas” Has Dangerous Consequences

“This is the way the world ends ...Not with a bang but a whimper."
Does that famous quote aptly describe America’s future? Time will tell, but indications are that this nation, the most powerful, benevolent and fair in the world, is crumbling before our very eyes. Like Rome, it isn’t falling from outside invasion, but within.
And one of the biggest culprits is political correctness.
It’s all around us, but especially this time of year, as the assault on “Merry Christmas” accelerates.

It used to be a standard greeting, and people would reciprocate with a smile. Your religious denomination didn’t matter, or whether you even had one. It was simply a friendly expression in a nation where the vast majority celebrated Christmas. And for those who didn’t, most returned the sentiment anyway because it was just a nice thing to do during the jovial season.
But all that changed as Americans’ sense of entitlement exploded. And yes, that included being entitled not to feel “offended” because something may not be to your exact liking.
“Merry Christmas? Well, I celebrate Hannukah or Kwanza or am an atheist, so how dare you presume to wish me your holiday? How offensive and rude!”
But it doesn’t stop there. Hypocritical retail stores woo Christmas shoppers --- you know, the 95 percent who do celebrate Christmas and spend a half-trillion dollars doing so --- but won’t put the word “Christmas” in their ads or on their displays.
It’s the Nativity scenes that are increasingly barred from public places. It’s residents who call the ACLU because a development hangs simple white lights on its trees. It’s office Christmas parties becoming a relic, replaced by generic “holiday” events. And yes, it’s Mayors like Michael Nutter who last year deliberately removed the word “Christmas” from the holiday retail complex near City Hall (but subsequently was forced to replace it).
All of it a brazen attempt to make America a more secular society through political correctness, and those who dare question it are labeled “bigots.”
Several important points need to be addressed:
1) The push to make all things politically correct has been successful, as it is now entrenched in all aspects of society. Everyone gets a trophy in most youth sports leagues, we don’t keep accurate score when one team is winning over another, and all things must be racially, culturally and ethnically homogenous.
The problem is that’s not how the real world works. And it’s the basic principle that the Occupy movement doesn’t understand. You have to work hard and fight for things you want, but when they are bestowed upon us --- without merit --- from those who worship at the altar of political correctness, things go downhill fast. Need proof? Just look at those who engage in PC the most ---Europe and the United States. Enough said.
2) This is a not call for “Thought Police” to mandate that everyone say “Merry Christmas.” Quite the opposite. It’s a call for the silent majority to wake up and shove it right back at the small but extremely loud minority who shout “I’m offended” at every single thing. Saying Merry Christmas behind closed doors doesn’t take guts. Saying it because you truly believe it and not worrying that such an innocuous greeting will offend does --- insane as that is.
3) Most important, Americans need to remember that actions have consequences. And until we connect the dots and see the error of being so PC, those consequences can, and will, have devastating results.
When good folks start looking over their shoulders before saying Merry Christmas for fear of "offending," it all begins to unravel.

Think the PC stops at that? Well, think about the fact that the next time you step foot on an airplane, it may be your last day on Earth because your government --- we the people --- absolutely refuse to non-invasively profile the very folks who openly state their intentions to blow up said aircraft. And it gets better, as the Transportation Security Administration just announced that children under 12 don’t have to take off their shoes for screening, and will not be subject to routine pat-downs like everyone else
Here’s the $64,000 question. What do we think al-Qaeda will do now? Here’s a wild guess. Start flying a lot more with children? What’s next? Not screening foreign children at all?

So when your wife gets incinerated two minutes after takeoff, and the wreckage of a jumbo jet falls on your child’s school because a terrorist put the bomb in his 11 year old's shoe, courtesy of the red carpet we provided, perhaps we shouldn’t wonder why it happened.
Or when your son gets his skull sliced in half by a bullet that emanates from a Mosque in Afghanistan which is "off limits" for retaliation for fear of offending the very people who don’t like us anyway, maybe we should think about where it all started coming apart.

Did it start from the reluctance to say Merry Christmas or the refusal to put a Christmas tree on a courthouse plaza? Did it originate from the refusal to acknowledge Christmas on a public school calendar while other religions’ holidays are clearly labeled as such? It’s impossible to pinpoint, but it really doesn't matter. That mentality is here, and has in large part led to the Great Decline.

So when the inevitable tragedy happens again --- one that could have been prevented --- and dumbfounded Americans stand around asking "How and why did this happen?", well, you'll know why. The 40's and 50's were certainly not perfect, but people spoke their minds, were respectful, and America was a powerhouse. That attitude put a man on the moon a mere 60 years after the Wright brothers took flight but is now a fleeting memory. Which is what happens when you bow to the wrong principles.

When Rome was at its zenith, it adhered to the simple principle that the well-being of its citizens was paramount. All of them. In fact, so fervent was that belief that the Romans would literally go to the ends of the Earth to hunt down any thug that violated the rights of just a single Roman. They didn't let political correctness rule the day, and the Republic thrived. But when it abandoned that principle, it all came crashing down.

They said Rome would never fall, but it did. Many say the same about America. Yet the whimper is at our door.
So if we are to ever return to our former glory, perhaps that path could begin by good folks jettisoning political correctness and saying two small but incredibly joyous words without reservation:
Merry Christmas!


Chris Freind is an independent columnist, television/radio commentator, and investigative reporter who operates his own news bureau, www.FreindlyFireZone.com His self-syndicated model has earned him the largest cumulative media voice in Pennsylvania. He can be reached at CF@FreindlyFireZone.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it







Villages PL 12-08-2012 02:00 PM

Merry Christmas, Senior Citizen!

..................AND............................. ..

Merry Christmas to everyone!

eweissenbach 12-08-2012 02:13 PM

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

graciegirl 12-08-2012 02:14 PM

Merry Christmas!

Lark7 12-08-2012 02:16 PM

Yes, I like the ring of those words!

Merry Christmas!

Barefoot 12-08-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senior citizen (Post 590214)

What does “Drinking the Kool-Aid” really mean.?

Another take on the meaning of "drinking the Kool-Aid". This is a quote and not from personal experience!

This is a reference to the "electric Kool-Aid acid tests," which were LSD parties held in the San Francisco Bay area in the mid 1960's. Someone who was willing to drink the LSD-laced Kool-Aid had, symbolically, made a choice to join (if only for a few hours) a counterculture that stood against conventional society. Once you take acid, you're committed -- the trip lasts for hours and you can't cut it short or change your mind. Once you've drunk the kool-aid, you're firmly committed.

Taltarzac725 12-08-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 591328)
Another take on the meaning of "drinking the Kool-Aid". This is a quote and not from personal experience!

This is a reference to the "electric Kool-Aid acid tests," which were LSD parties held in the San Francisco Bay area in the mid 1960's. Someone who was willing to drink the LSD-laced Kool-Aid had, symbolically, made a choice to join (if only for a few hours) a counterculture that stood against conventional society. Once you take acid, you're committed -- the trip lasts for hours and you can't cut it short or change your mind. Once you've drunk the kool-aid, you're firmly committed.

Very interesting Barefoot. Drinking The Kool Aid - Television Tropes & Idioms

duffysmom 12-08-2012 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDave (Post 591192)
You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Old Dave, beautifully said. I'm turning to page 496 of my hymnal (printed by Gary Morse) and it does say "It's a beautiful day in the villages.":ho: There's a house for sale in my neighborhood, I suggest you buy it.;)

MSG@TV 12-08-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eweissenbach (Post 591319)
Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

Ed, once again, my new "friend" you make a lot of sense IMHO. Happy Hanukkah (which begins tonight), and in advance, Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa (begins on the 26th). Personally I don't care which greeting I'm offered and offer the same in return.

graciegirl 12-08-2012 03:36 PM

How'd we get on this topic?

manaboutown 12-08-2012 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG@TV (Post 591370)
Ed, once again, my new "friend" you make a lot of sense IMHO. Happy Hanukkah (which begins tonight), and in advance, Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa (begins on the 26th). Personally I don't care which greeting I'm offered and offer the same in return.

Please don't forget "Festivus for the rest of us"!


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