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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   what's your thoughts on this (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/whats-your-thoughts-299954/)

champion6 11-16-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1695632)
I'm not changing the rules. I'm honoring them. I'll sit down, and as soon as the people they're saving the seats for show up, I'll yield them back. If they're not already there (dancing, going to the bathroom, getting a drink, etc) then those seats are unoccupied, whether they're saved or not. Three nights ago a lady claimed to be saving SEVEN chairs for people who hadn't shown up yet. She was by herself. Sorry but that just doesn't fly with me. Those people can have the chairs when they get there because they've been "saved" by that lady. Those people won't need them until then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1695650)
What can possibly be wrong with sitting is a seat that is empty? Isn't it OK to assure the person who is saving the seats that you will vacate the seat as soon as the person arrives? There are times that seats remain empty until later in the evening when those seats could have been utilized. Doesn't make any sense to me that someone could be arrested for sitting in a "saved" seat..

Two examples of what can go wrong.
===========================================
From the online news:
June 2, 2016

A Village of Hillsborough man was arrested after a fight with a 72-year-old woman over a seat Wednesday night at Spanish Springs Town Square.

Bruce Raymond Benard of 3525 Nance Run is facing a charge of battery after he allegedly grabbed the woman’s wrist “very hard” and stomped on her left foot two times in an attempt to remove her from a chair, according to a report from the Lady Lake Police Department.

The woman told police she was at town square and observed some empty seating, so she took a seat. Bruce Benard confronted her about sitting in seats he had reserved for his friends and family and threatened to throw her off the chair if she did not move, the report indicated.

The woman said she told Benard she would move in a minute and that’s when the attack began, the report said.

The woman told police she felt like his arms were ready to come down on her.

When police interviewed Benard he said, “she should have moved and I have a right to stand up for myself and stand my ground.” He admitted to grabbing the woman.

Two witnesses confirmed the woman’s version of events.

Benard was booked at the Lake County Jail. He was released after posting $1,000 bond.

===========================================
Another from the online news:
May 24, 2016

Rocky and the Rollers remain one of the most popular acts in The Villages.

On Monday night, the popular band brought in a big crowd at Spanish Springs Town Square.

But there is a price to be paid for popularity.

Before noon Monday there was plenty of evidence of seat saving at the square. Numerous green chairs were adorned with towels, cushions, ribbons and even yellow crime scene tape hours before Rocky and his fellow musicians stepped on stage at the Gazebo.

Officially, “saving” seats at the squares is prohibited in The Villages.

Saving seats at the square twice ended in arrest this past summer.

A 65-year-old Water Oak resident on Sept. 9 was accused of pushing a 77-year-old Villager who dared to sit in a seat “saved” by the Water Oaker at Spanish Springs Town Square.

When the Villager attempted to sit in one of the “saved” seats, Gary Lee Herzhaft informed the Villager that the chair was “taken.” When the Villager ignored him, Herzhaft “jumped up and pushed (the man) back and jammed his fingers into the upper chest area,” of the Villager, according to an incident report from the Lady Lake Police Department.

Herzhaft told police that the “chairs were taken,” but denied pushing or poking The Villager.

Herzhaft is now serving a year’s probation as a result of that incident. He was also ordered to undergo anger management training.

A 70-year-old Village of Santo Domingo man paid a nearly $300 fine in Lake County Court after pleading no contest to charges of disorderly conduct and resisting a police officer. He had been arrested June 26 after he allegedly punched a man and insulted a supporter of the LGBT community who he accused of taking his seat near the gazebo at the square.
===========================================

CWGUY 11-16-2019 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1695650)
Seriously???? That makes absolutely no sense.

:ohdear: Unfortunately it's true! You have never heard of a fight on a Square over seat saving? And I'm afraid more than one too! That's what happens when people say things like "I don't care what rules they have." and "I'll vacate when they show up." :icon_wink:

Velvet 11-16-2019 05:00 PM

Perhaps there should be a rule on how many seats you can save? Or maybe there is one already?

CWGUY 11-16-2019 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1695656)
Perhaps there should be a rule on how many seats you can save? Or maybe there is one already?

Pick a number from 1 to 500......:1rotfl:

Number 10 GI 11-16-2019 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by champion6 (Post 1695654)
Two examples of what can go wrong.
===========================================
From the online news:
June 2, 2016

A Village of Hillsborough man was arrested after a fight with a 72-year-old woman over a seat Wednesday night at Spanish Springs Town Square.

Bruce Raymond Benard of 3525 Nance Run is facing a charge of battery after he allegedly grabbed the woman’s wrist “very hard” and stomped on her left foot two times in an attempt to remove her from a chair, according to a report from the Lady Lake Police Department.

The woman told police she was at town square and observed some empty seating, so she took a seat. Bruce Benard confronted her about sitting in seats he had reserved for his friends and family and threatened to throw her off the chair if she did not move, the report indicated.

The woman said she told Benard she would move in a minute and that’s when the attack began, the report said.

The woman told police she felt like his arms were ready to come down on her.

When police interviewed Benard he said, “she should have moved and I have a right to stand up for myself and stand my ground.” He admitted to grabbing the woman.

Two witnesses confirmed the woman’s version of events.

Benard was booked at the Lake County Jail. He was released after posting $1,000 bond.

===========================================
Another from the online news:
May 24, 2016

Rocky and the Rollers remain one of the most popular acts in The Villages.

On Monday night, the popular band brought in a big crowd at Spanish Springs Town Square.

But there is a price to be paid for popularity.

Before noon Monday there was plenty of evidence of seat saving at the square. Numerous green chairs were adorned with towels, cushions, ribbons and even yellow crime scene tape hours before Rocky and his fellow musicians stepped on stage at the Gazebo.

Officially, “saving” seats at the squares is prohibited in The Villages.

Saving seats at the square twice ended in arrest this past summer.

A 65-year-old Water Oak resident on Sept. 9 was accused of pushing a 77-year-old Villager who dared to sit in a seat “saved” by the Water Oaker at Spanish Springs Town Square.

When the Villager attempted to sit in one of the “saved” seats, Gary Lee Herzhaft informed the Villager that the chair was “taken.” When the Villager ignored him, Herzhaft “jumped up and pushed (the man) back and jammed his fingers into the upper chest area,” of the Villager, according to an incident report from the Lady Lake Police Department.

Herzhaft told police that the “chairs were taken,” but denied pushing or poking The Villager.

Herzhaft is now serving a year’s probation as a result of that incident. He was also ordered to undergo anger management training.

A 70-year-old Village of Santo Domingo man paid a nearly $300 fine in Lake County Court after pleading no contest to charges of disorderly conduct and resisting a police officer. He had been arrested June 26 after he allegedly punched a man and insulted a supporter of the LGBT community who he accused of taking his seat near the gazebo at the square.
===========================================

My take on this is that the person wasn't arrested for setting in a seat that someone was holding for other people, they were arrested for assault. Cite me the ordnance, law, code or whatever that says you can be arrested for setting in a chair that someone is holding for another person.

OrangeBlossomBaby 11-16-2019 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1695640)
Good Luck with your plan. Others ended up with hours of community service and probation. I realize you are different.

The only people who ended up with community service and probation were the people who committed assault against other people who were sitting down.

I've seen no incident report, news article, or op-ed about anyone who was given probation or community service for sitting in a vacant seat, whether "saved" or otherwise.

Marathon Man 11-16-2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1695615)
I stand corrected! Partially funded by county tax. Partially funded by tourism tax. Partially funded by - maybe other things?

As for the seat-savers, I've noticed this on normal evenings not just holidays (I've been down here during a few of them even though I just moved in for good).

The last time, I feel, is going to be the last time. From now on if someone says "these seats are for people who are expected" I'll tell them "great. When they come, I'll vacate." And park my young-senior butt in the chair.

Not corrected yet. Not sure why you insist that county taxes are going into this. Tourism tax, yes. But we don't pay that, tourists do.

Moderator 11-16-2019 08:05 PM

The topic is special VIP tickets for the Christmas tree lighting. It is not about seat saving. Please stay on topic.

Moderator

tophcfa 11-16-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1695542)
This would not have happened if Harold Schwartz or Gary Morse were running the show. Times they are a changing. Some think the changes are good, others not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 1695547)
LOL How is it that you know that? DO you commune with them in order to know what they are thinking these days? LOL I must be watching too much Long Island Medium! lolololololol

Not sure what Long Island Medium is and never watched it, but I do closely observe what is going on in the Villages. Simple observation over time spent in the Villages backs up that this never happened under the watch of Harold and Gary, but it is now. Perhaps more time should be spent observing what is going on in your home town then on watching Long Island Medium?

OrangeBlossomBaby 11-16-2019 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 1695679)
Not corrected yet. Not sure why you insist that county taxes are going into this. Tourism tax, yes. But we don't pay that, tourists do.

Not sure why your response seems to confrontational. i don't "insist" anything. Are you insisting that only tourists pay the tourist tax? Because you'd be incorrect about that as well.

Here's the actual text of the tax code:

Quote:

Tourist Development Tax Revenues are generated by overnight guests staying in Sumter County RV parks / campgrounds, hotels, motels and condominiums. As a rule, any short-term lodging of 6 months or less is subject to the 2% tax in additions to Sumter County's sales tax. Collections are received through the Florida Department of Revenue and returned to the County on a monthly basis for the County's use. Sumter County places this revenue in a special revenue fund - Tourist Development Fund.
So, not just tourists. Snowbirds renting for fewer than 6 months are supposed to be paying that too. It was my mistake to think that the county's sales tax also contributed to the entertainment (tourism) fund. It's your mistake to think that only tourists pay for it, AND it's your mistake to think that the tourism tax is not a county tax. It absolutely is a county tax. It's just not the county tax I thought it was.

Yung Dum 11-16-2019 10:52 PM

These trees are all boring and colorless. Not much to get into the spirit of Christmas and certainly not worth going to see those dull white lights go on and pretend it's beautiful. And to pay for it? Out of the question.

Bogie Shooter 11-17-2019 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1695676)
The only people who ended up with community service and probation were the people who committed assault against other people who were sitting down.

I've seen no incident report, news article, or op-ed about anyone who was given probation or community service for sitting in a vacant seat, whether "saved" or otherwise.

Sitting in the seat created the assault.

champion6 11-17-2019 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moderator (Post 1695690)
The topic is special VIP tickets for the Christmas tree lighting. It is not about seat saving. Please stay on topic.
Moderator

Respectfully, when the title of the thread is so vague, "what's your thoughts on this," it's harder to remember the topic ... not that we're very good at this, anyway. Thanks for the reminder.

Nucky 11-17-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ureout (Post 1695493)
Traditionally free Villages tree lightings introducing pay-to-view seating

The concept of selling specialized treatment at holiday events first surfaced this past July 4 at Brownwood. The tree-lighting shows are following that model, with tickets offered for $50 per person, $80 per couple and $225 for a table for six. Those purchasing the “VIP Experience” are being promised two free drink tickets, appetizers provided by a yet-unnamed vendor and access to a VIP tent and cash bar, as well as reserved seating and “direct access into the square.”

Making this none of my business makes my life better. I don't own the area in question. Hope it was fun! Interesting subject though. :ohdear:

gatorbill1 11-17-2019 09:41 AM

I guess anyone can save seats and then sell them?????????

CWGUY 11-17-2019 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorbill1 (Post 1695752)
I guess anyone can save seats and then sell them?????????

Not in the VIP tent..... but
You could sell the Brooklyn Bridge here and get someone to pay you in I-tune cards. :faint:

graciegirl 11-17-2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWGUY (Post 1695761)
Not in the VIP tent..... but
You could sell the Brooklyn Bridge here and get someone to pay you I-tune cards. :faint:

Last week I got a couple of good offers on sidewalk space in San Francisco. ;)

CWGUY 11-17-2019 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1695776)
Last week I got a couple of good offers on sidewalk space in San Francisco. ;)

No tub, no toilet, no problem? :faint:

Barefoot 11-17-2019 01:20 PM

In 2007, we bought our house in The Villages.
We went to all the parades and every get together, including the Christmas Tree Lighting.
I assume in 2019, it will be even more crowded.

Bogie Shooter 11-17-2019 01:25 PM

It’s not $80 a couple, only by choice.

Barefoot 11-17-2019 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1695656)
Perhaps there should be a rule on how many seats you can save? Or maybe there is one already?

Zero is the number.
But the moderator has already reminded us that this thread is about VIP tickets, not saved seats.

Barefoot 11-17-2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ureout (Post 1695493)
Traditionally free Villages tree lightings introducing pay-to-view seating.

I think that your initial post is misleading.
I understand from reading posts on this thread, that there are still free seats available, just not in the VIP tent.

Velvet 11-17-2019 03:39 PM

If I were to save a seat (and I can’t see why I would) I’d either turn it upside down (probably not allowed) or stack them and sit on the stack (probably not allowed) or.... (definitely not allowed!). However, I prefer to get along with my fellow Villagers so I would not say to them, “No, you can’t take that seat.” Talk about being antisocial.

John_W 11-17-2019 04:06 PM

The original topic was the VIP tent at Brownwood for the tree lighting. This is the perfect example of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Here is a typical special event at Brownwood (The Mountain)


https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e8&oe=5E50A435

Here is the VIP used at the 4th of July Celebration at Brownwood (The Mole Hill)


https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c9&oe=5E585507

Anywhere else at the square besides inside that little tent, the grandstands, the folding chairs, the chair you bring from home, in your golf cart, at the City Fire Bar, on the dance floor, all those seats are still FREE!!!!!!

Velvet 11-17-2019 04:11 PM

Nah, we are just having a bit of fun with the topic. If the Squares do not belong to the Villages, I don't see we can say much effectively about how they are used.

John_W 11-17-2019 04:20 PM

Here's a better look at it, some of you should feel foolish. If someone wants to pay $50 to sit in there, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. It's not even in a good location, stuck back between the bleachers near the sidewalk.

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d0&oe=5E846246

claytocl 11-17-2019 05:11 PM

All squares are open to the public. It shouldn’t be allowed.

claytocl 11-17-2019 05:17 PM

The squares are public access, just as your roads are. In other words, The Villages has no say who goes to the Squares or drives through your village.

OrangeBlossomBaby 11-17-2019 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytocl (Post 1695846)
All squares are open to the public. It shouldn’t be allowed.

While they are open to the public, they are not public property. The property is owned, and the owners can set up a tent and charge admission to that tent if they wish.

dewilson58 11-17-2019 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytocl (Post 1695848)
The squares are public access, just as your roads are. In other words, The Villages has no say who goes to the Squares or drives through your village.




Might want to get educated first.

dewilson58 11-17-2019 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_W (Post 1695834)
The original topic was the VIP tent at Brownwood for the tree lighting. This is the perfect example of making a mountain out of a mole hill.




Exactly.


Somebody writes to the rag online news and all the whiners come out to play.

600th Photo Sq 11-17-2019 06:19 PM

USA = Freedom of choice your $$$ money your choice. That is common sense to me.

Those who chose to buy into this scheme will love it or hate it. The cost for those who choose to buy into this scheme isn't in the least bit concerned about the cost.

For me? " Boring " . I wouldn't waste 1 second of my time to go to this type of event.

Access to the VIP Tent, where more than likely attendees get to meet the person who actually turned on the " Tree Light Switch " and of course get an opportunity to get His/Her " Autograph ", and a photo opportunity with that " VIP ".








bagboy 11-17-2019 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1695851)
exactly.


Somebody writes to the rag online news and all the whiners come out to play.

amen !!!

Marathon Man 11-17-2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytocl (Post 1695846)
All squares are open to the public. It shouldn’t be allowed.

Residents of Continental Country Club should undestand that the squares, while 'open to the public', are not public property. The owner can choose to set up a VIP tent.

coffeebean 11-17-2019 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1695676)
The only people who ended up with community service and probation were the people who committed assault against other people who were sitting down.

I've seen no incident report, news article, or op-ed about anyone who was given probation or community service for sitting in a vacant seat, whether "saved" or otherwise.

Now, this makes perfect sense.

PennBF 11-17-2019 09:51 PM

Real Impact
 
The real impact for charging to sit in the Square's which were open to all regardless of living status now push towards a "pecking order" in the village's and the amount you pay for services is where you are in the pecking order. As far as the money goes does not mean anything to me. To know some would like to see the tree lighting can't because in a few years it will only be available to ability to pay. That is sad! This is absolutely a major change and the birth of a whole new way of living in the villages and future buyers should recognize these types of additional expense have taken the first step towards where you can afford the changing way of costs of living here. :ohdear:

OrangeBlossomBaby 11-17-2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PennBF (Post 1695906)
The real impact for charging to sit in the Square's which were open to all regardless of living status now push towards a "pecking order" in the village's and the amount you pay for services is where you are in the pecking order. As far as the money goes does not mean anything to me. To know some would like to see the tree lighting can't because in a few years it will only be available to ability to pay. That is sad! This is absolutely a major change and the birth of a whole new way of living in the villages and future buyers should recognize these types of additional expense have taken the first step towards where you can afford the changing way of costs of living here. :ohdear:

No one is making anyone pay to see this. It is STILL free, and everything you got for free last year, will still be available for free this year.

They are charging for FOOD, DRINKS, and seating under a canopy at a table for crying out loud. You have to pay for that already now, so that isn't changing either.

Nucky 11-18-2019 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1695830)
If I were to save a seat (and I can’t see why I would) I’d either turn it upside down (probably not allowed) or stack them and sit on the stack (probably not allowed) or.... (definitely not allowed!). However, I prefer to get along with my fellow Villagers so I would not say to them, “No, you can’t take that seat.” Talk about being antisocial.

If you turned the seats upside down then you could get 4 people on each chair. Just Sayin! Problem solved!

sleepingdog 11-18-2019 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1695498)
No. Will become a Pandora's Box!!!
Maintain first come first served.

How is this proposal any different than saving seats on the square? It isn't!!!
I agree with first reply:

BS!

another Village rip off

Kenswing 11-18-2019 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingdog (Post 1695980)
another Village rip off

Just so I know before we move there, what are the other Village's rip offs?


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