Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   White cross on lawn in letters to the editor (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/white-cross-lawn-letters-editor-244187/)

biker1 07-20-2017 12:33 PM

There are a bunch of things you *should* do in life and when you don't there might be consequences. You *should* follow the traffic laws, and you effectively committed to them when you obtained a driver's license, but many don't and when they get caught there is often a monetary penalty. You signed up for deed restrictions and you *should* follow them but many don't and when they get caught they need to fix the problem or there will be a monetary penalty.

What you *should* do and what you actually do are often two different things. I have no control over what you or others do and unless you put a car up on concrete blocks in my neighborhood I probably don't care. I can only point out what you signed up for, and it appears that many people have no idea what they signed up for with the deed restrictions. Also, trying to discuss deed restrictions and traffic laws in the same sentence is sort of silly since one falls under criminal law and the other is strictly civil. I think that is enough philosophy for the day, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1426219)
Looks like I need to rephrase the question.

You stated "You signed up for a set of rules and should follow them. "


I asked if you felt the same way about stop signs while riding your bike.

Somewhere between the question and answer someone made a wrong turn and got off on a tangent.

then you state "As far as I am concerned, I follow the deed restrictions but violate traffic laws probably as frequently as the next guy."

So I'm still confused. Maybe some people follow the traffic laws but violate the deed restrictions as frequently as the next guy. What does that mean?????


golfing eagles 07-20-2017 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1426229)
There are a bunch of things you *should* do in life and when you don't there might be consequences. You *should* follow the traffic laws, and you effectively committed to them when you obtained a driver's license, but many don't and when they get caught there is often a monetary penalty. You signed up for deed restrictions and you *should* follow them but many don't and when they get caught they need to fix the problem or there will be a monetary penalty.

What you *should* do and what you actually do are often two different things. I have no control over what you or others do and unless you put a car up on concrete blocks in my neighborhood I probably don't care. I can only point out what you signed up for, and it appears that many people have no idea what they signed up for with the deed restrictions. Also, trying to discuss deed restriction and traffic laws in the same sentence is sort of silly since one falls under criminal law and the other is strictly civil. I think that is enough philosophy for the day, don't you?

Quite agree:beer3::beer3:

Happy biking

Gpsma 07-20-2017 01:01 PM

Yes...let's just all agree I'm right and be done with it!!

biker1 07-20-2017 01:14 PM

That works for me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gpsma (Post 1426240)
Yes...let's just all agree I'm right and be done with it!!


Barefoot 07-21-2017 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gpsma (Post 1426170)
I suggest more people start stretching the deed restrictions. Bring a little diversity to TV in appearance.

I think you're not serious -- just trying to stir the cauldron? :jester:

Gordon82 07-21-2017 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PennBF (Post 1426073)
I am as religious as the next guy BUT that does not mean I have the right to force my beliefs on others. This a form of advertising regardless of the reasons given by the ones who post the cross. Think how far this can go if it was allowed. Where does it stop and who is the censor? We all signed the restrictions agreement and if we don't like them now then sell and go where it is allowed to advertise your religion. If you want to be a "Mission" then for God's sake there are a lot of countries who could use Missions and please go to them and help them. The Villages, thankfully don't need missions so your work is misplaced. :shrug:

Nonsense. If it wasn't a white cross but instead a little white bird no one would say a thing.

Mrs. Robinson 07-21-2017 12:09 PM

Religion is a Personal Thing and Should Not Be Broadcast!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PennBF (Post 1426073)
I am as religious as the next guy BUT that does not mean I have the right to force my beliefs on others. This a form of advertising regardless of the reasons given by the ones who post the cross. Think how far this can go if it was allowed. Where does it stop and who is the censor? We all signed the restrictions agreement and if we don't like them now then sell and go where it is allowed to advertise your religion. If you want to be a "Mission" then for God's sake there are a lot of countries who could use Missions and please go to them and help them. The Villages, thankfully don't need missions so your work is misplaced. :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon82 (Post 1426545)
Nonsense. If it wasn't a white cross but instead a little white bird no one would say a thing.

You are correct, Gordon82, but it isn't nonsense.
Most people would prefer to see a little white bird, not a white cross.
Personally, I find it offensive.
I don't want to see anyone's religious item on their front lawn, or anywhere else that is visible when passing the property.
It is not in good taste and at this stage of the game, I see defiance in those who refuse to remove it.

PennBF is correct in that if you want to carry on the work of a missionary, go somewhere else and do it.
Those crosses do not belong in a residential area. Period!

Wiotte 07-21-2017 12:27 PM

Little white crosses, big white crosses. Very different powerful messages from each. Keep it private, keep it inside. Deed restrictions apply to ALL.


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Gordon82 07-21-2017 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson (Post 1426557)
You are correct, Gordon82, but it isn't nonsense.
Most people would prefer to see a little white bird, not a white cross.
Personally, I find it offensive.
I don't want to see anyone's religious item on their front lawn, or anywhere else that is visible when passing the property.
It is not in good taste and at this stage of the game, I see defiance in those who refuse to remove it.

PennBF is correct in that if you want to carry on the work of a missionary, go somewhere else and do it.
Those crosses do not belong in a residential area. Period!

It doesn't matter one bit if you find it offensive, or what most people prefer. If you want to take the deeds argument, then fine. ALL yard art should be removed. Short of that, a small white cross is not different than anything else that identifies someone as being part of a group (a Patriots fan, a Wisconsin resident, etc.). Your idea of what is in good taste, or my idea of what is in good taste, is not at issue. We're talking about a one foot high white cross, which is much smaller than most other things found in people's front yards in The Villages.

I'm glad you see defiance. I don't have one of those crosses, but if I did I would refuse to remove it. I'm tired of people thinking they have a right to not be offended at someone else's beliefs or opinions to the point of casually throwing away the right of free speech and expression. Should people with a cross on their driveway or lamppost sign be forced to remove those because you are offended? Apparently so, since you don't want to see anything religious when passing someone else's property.

Again, if The Villages wants to take the deed restriction to 100% enforcement, that is fine. But it is not fine to selectively enforce it against yard art that is religious in nature.

Challenger 07-21-2017 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiotte (Post 1426567)
Little white crosses, big white crosses. Very different powerful messages from each. Keep it private, keep it inside. Deed restrictions apply to ALL.


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And that says it all

Mrs. Robinson 07-21-2017 06:11 PM

Religious Items are NOT Landscaping!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiotte (Post 1426567)
Little white crosses, big white crosses. Very different powerful messages from each. Keep it private, keep it inside. Deed restrictions apply to ALL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon82 (Post 1426576)
It doesn't matter one bit if you find it offensive, or what most people prefer. If you want to take the deeds argument, then fine. ALL yard art should be removed. Short of that, a small white cross is not different than anything else that identifies someone as being part of a group (a Patriots fan, a Wisconsin resident, etc.). Your idea of what is in good taste, or my idea of what is in good taste, is not at issue. We're talking about a one foot high white cross, which is much smaller than most other things found in people's front yards in The Villages.

I'm glad you see defiance. I don't have one of those crosses, but if I did I would refuse to remove it. I'm tired of people thinking they have a right to not be offended at someone else's beliefs or opinions to the point of casually throwing away the right of free speech and expression. Should people with a cross on their driveway or lamppost sign be forced to remove those because you are offended? Apparently so, since you don't want to see anything religious when passing someone else's property.

Again, if The Villages wants to take the deed restriction to 100% enforcement, that is fine. But it is not fine to selectively enforce it against yard art that is religious in nature.

Wiotte -- You made it very simple and without a lot of fanfare.

Gordon82 -- My thoughts must have bothered you greatly since you sent your dissertation (above) via your Iphone.
Let's get something straight. I am not offended by anyone's belief.
But religion is a personal thing and should be practiced in a place of worship or in one's own home, not on a residential front lawn!

You say that one of these crosses is tantamount to someone displaying a Patriots' something-or-other?
Surely you jest???
That small white bird in lieu of a cross is becoming a better and better idea, thanks to your suggestion.

All "yard art" should be removed? I presume you are referring to what I would call junk or an eyesore, however, there are tons of properties that are landscaped beautifully with some unique and different items which add to an overall "wow" look.

The size of a cross is not the issue. The issue is that it is a cross, which could never be considered part of landscaping under any circumstances.

Rapscallion St Croix 07-21-2017 07:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1426148)
How would you know what the "spirit" of the deed restrictions are unless you actually read them? Regardless, the "spirit" doesn't matter. You signed up for a set of rules and should follow them.

Should interpret my deed restrictions to mean that I really can only have two fish in my aquarium and comply, or should I be a scofflaw and sneak a third one in under the radar?

graciegirl 07-21-2017 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson (Post 1426557)
You are correct, Gordon82, but it isn't nonsense.
Most people would prefer to see a little white bird, not a white cross.
Personally, I find it offensive.
I don't want to see anyone's religious item on their front lawn, or anywhere else that is visible when passing the property.
It is not in good taste and at this stage of the game, I see defiance in those who refuse to remove it.

PennBF is correct in that if you want to carry on the work of a missionary, go somewhere else and do it.
Those crosses do not belong in a residential area. Period!


My friend Ruthie is gone now. Breast cancer took her away. She had on her front door a little Jewish sign that someone gave her affectionately, just as I gave her a star of David necklace, me her Catholic friend.. She was a dear friend to me and my next door neighbor and she had her port for chemo and I had mine when we moved in next to each other in Hadley. We shopped for stuff for our homes and ate lunch out and laughed at the same things. Ruthie was not a religious Jewish girl, didn't do the holidays or keep the Sabbath, but she put up her mezzuza and I touched it each time I went in her door.

Religion or lack of it isn't the dividing factor. It is lack of kindness that divides us. I miss you Ruthie. I think I will find a Mezzuza and put it on my door.

dbussone 07-21-2017 07:56 PM

White cross on lawn in letters to the editor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1426719)
My friend Ruthie is gone now. Breast cancer took her away. She had on her front door a little Jewish sign that someone gave her affectionately, just as I gave her a star of David necklace, me her Catholic friend.. She was a dear friend to me and my next door neighbor and she had her port for chemo and I had mine when we moved in next to each other in Hadley. We shopped for stuff for our homes and ate lunch out and laughed at the same things. Ruthie was not a religious Jewish girl, didn't do the holidays or keep the Sabbath, but she put up her mezzuza and I touched it each time I went in her door.

Religion or lack of it isn't the dividing factor. It is lack of kindness that divides us. I miss you Ruthie. I think I will find a Mezzuza and put it on my door.



Gracie - I've been to more memorial services for friends in the past year, than in all my prior years. I'm a religious person so I'm not offended at all by the little white crosses. They represent a peace we can believe in now, and realize later. For those who are offended, I'm sorry they don't get it. Some soul searching on their part is in order.


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Polar Bear 07-21-2017 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson (Post 1426557)
...I see defiance in those who refuse to remove it...

But you see none in those who refuse to accept it?

dbussone 07-21-2017 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1426727)
But you see none in those who refuse to accept it?



[emoji41][emoji106]


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Mrs. Robinson 07-22-2017 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1426727)
But you see none in those who refuse to accept it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1426731)
[emoji41][emoji106]


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I completely accept everyone's decision to practice the religion of their choice.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Religion is a personal thing.
If you're proud of being a ----- (fill in the blank) -- fine.
However, I fail to see the necessity of displaying it as though it is part of one's landscaping.
It isn't and really doesn't belong there.

graciegirl 07-22-2017 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson (Post 1426781)
I completely accept everyone's decision to practice the religion of their choice.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Religion is a personal thing.
If you're proud of being a ----- (fill in the blank) -- fine.
However, I fail to see the necessity of displaying it as though it is part of one's landscaping.
It isn't and really doesn't belong there.

How ya feel about Burqa's? They look kinda stand outy to me. I always think they mean that the man IS the man of the house, that folks in the family don't like gay people a lot and they probably won't have a Blessed Virgin in the landscaping. And they look HOT. Worse than bras. But to each their own you say...and I say. I think sometimes some of us including me shouldn't share their thoughts on personal things like religion. It is very tricky these days to get along.

Wiotte 07-22-2017 08:34 AM

Much like our ever expanding universe, the distant between ourselves grows and the attraction that once binded us lessens ever more. Human fractionization by way of religious intolerance is our current reality as it has been through the ages and only through humanistic tolerance can we all get along. :beer3: Let us now pray...

dbussone 07-22-2017 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson (Post 1426781)
I completely accept everyone's decision to practice the religion of their choice.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Religion is a personal thing.

If you're proud of being a ----- (fill in the blank) -- fine.

However, I fail to see the necessity of displaying it as though it is part of one's landscaping.

It isn't and really doesn't belong there.



I don't have a cross in my yard. Mine is in my home & heart.


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biker1 07-22-2017 10:18 AM

Since enforcement of the deed restrictions is complaint driven, unless you invite someone into your home and they see the third fish you are probably good to go ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix (Post 1426715)
Should interpret my deed restrictions to mean that I really can only have two fish in my aquarium and comply, or should I be a scofflaw and sneak a third one in under the radar?


graciegirl 07-22-2017 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1426859)
I don't have a cross in my yard. Mine is in my home & heart.


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We don't either. We have three very small ceramic gecko's hidden on a ledge under a bush that were made by our resident artist Helene. The real gecko's sit on them...

until the snake comes. I think there is a religious allegory there somewhere.....

Challenger 07-22-2017 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1426859)
I don't have a cross in my yard. Mine is in my home & heart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The more appropriate location.

New Englander 07-22-2017 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 1426939)
The more appropriate location.

I agree.

quietBern 07-22-2017 08:06 PM

I notice this thread is about placing various articles in the landscaping in the front of the house. Do the same rules apply to the rear of the property? What about if the back of your house faces the street?

EnglishJW 07-23-2017 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazmi (Post 1426037)
Instead of depending on the complaint system just level the playing field by enforcing this across the board. We signed our deed when we bought. Stick to the deal you willingly signed. Do I mind a cross - absolutely not. Do I mind metal birds, etc. Nope. I do mind though the petty bickering and lawn ornament police. Just make it fair and stop pitting neighbor (or non-neighbor) and against neighbor who can't stick to the rules.

I would love to see it work this way too.

Challenger 07-23-2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishJW (Post 1427288)
I would love to see it work this way too.

Yes

graciegirl 07-23-2017 01:02 PM

The Villages have tried to stay out of these kinds of situations where THEY are left to decide what is bothering people and to levy fees and fines. AND...If this was a manned job..then it would require remuneration to the hunter of restriction rule breakers...and his/her riding around in a car and that my friends is where all those taxes get raised or fees get heisted up and that is when the real bitching begins. If you are annoyed report them. Anonymously. They shouldn't have done it and if they figure out you dropped the dime. Well, there you are.

Gracie the fiscal conservative.

Barefoot 07-23-2017 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1427297)
If you are annoyed report them. Anonymously. They shouldn't have done it and if they figure out you dropped the dime. Well, there you are.
Gracie the fiscal conservative.

:agree: with Gracie.
Fine to say "enforce this across the board", but I think residents would be incensed by an increased amenity fee to enforce this.
68 posts later :popcorn: and I don't think any poster has YET convinced another poster to switch sides. An impasse.

Bavarian 07-23-2017 03:09 PM

This fight over the small White Crosses is what started the Lutherens, of which I am not, in Frankenmuth to start the campaign.

Want to see Burgas, go to Bad Toelz, only one so far. We sent them to Fr. Merkel.

Chi33 07-23-2017 03:41 PM

Be respectful, just shape a hedge into a cross.

graciegirl 07-23-2017 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavarian (Post 1427324)
This fight over the small White Crosses is what started the Lutherens, of which I am not, in Frankenmuth to start the campaign.

Want to see Burgas, go to Bad Toelz, only one so far. We sent them to Fr. Merkel.

Lutherans. I think it was more than that.

dbussone 07-23-2017 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1427351)
Lutherans. I think it was more than that.



Shhhh! (he's German GG, don't get him upset) And please don't let him know he misspelled Lutheran.

But I admit he does make fine cars.


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John_W 07-23-2017 05:22 PM

There was one time about 1986 I saw a cross and it was scary. I was driving into Chapel Hill, NC about 10:00 at night. I was to pick up a bicycle I had ordered from Performance Bikes. After you get off I-95 it's just 2 lane country roads until you get to town. Just a couple of miles before Chapel Hill, home to a huge university, I saw about a 10' tall burning cross. I didn't slow down to take a good look. I caught the news that night on TV and it was the KKK having some fun. It was scary to me, I hate to think what a black person felt like.

Edjkoz 07-23-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon82 (Post 1426576)
it doesn't matter one bit if you find it offensive, or what most people prefer. If you want to take the deeds argument, then fine. All yard art should be removed. Short of that, a small white cross is not different than anything else that identifies someone as being part of a group (a patriots fan, a wisconsin resident, etc.). Your idea of what is in good taste, or my idea of what is in good taste, is not at issue. We're talking about a one foot high white cross, which is much smaller than most other things found in people's front yards in the villages.

I'm glad you see defiance. I don't have one of those crosses, but if i did i would refuse to remove it. I'm tired of people thinking they have a right to not be offended at someone else's beliefs or opinions to the point of casually throwing away the right of free speech and expression. Should people with a cross on their driveway or lamppost sign be forced to remove those because you are offended? Apparently so, since you don't want to see anything religious when passing someone else's property.

Again, if the villages wants to take the deed restriction to 100% enforcement, that is fine. But it is not fine to selectively enforce it against yard art that is religious in nature.

bravo!

autumnspring 07-23-2017 06:47 PM

Re: Religious tolerance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiotte (Post 1426850)
Much like our ever expanding universe, the distant between ourselves grows and the attraction that once binded us lessens ever more. Human fractionization by way of religious intolerance is our current reality as it has been through the ages and only through humanistic tolerance can we all get along. :beer3: Let us now pray...


You really need to do some reading of history.

Look at these posts. People in the villages are older, more educated and wealthier than the general population.
Sadly even here you cannot discuss religion or politics.
SADLY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN SO

dbussone 07-23-2017 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suesiegel (Post 1427407)
You really need to do some reading of history.



Look at these posts. People in the villages are older, more educated and wealthier than the general population.

Sadly even here you cannot discuss religion or politics.

SADLY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN SO



I do think it is possible to discuss religion here, but politics is an intolerable mix of oil and water on TOTV. People have lost the ability to debate. It has been replaced by posting links and citing sources both reasonable and unreasonable. Above all else people have lost their sense of humor...much more rant than laugh. Thank goodness for the ignore button.


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natalierp 07-24-2017 05:55 AM

Everything is a thing now a days but rules are rules
 
I read through this thread and the immaturity of some of the posts for older adults. It is simple justvlike when we had our golf cart outside in our yard for sale. The enforcement officier knocked on our door stating that is against the deed you signed having items for sale in your yard. I simply aid thank you for the information I was not aware and put it in a parking lot in a square or ref center at his suggestion. Whether that legal or not J don't know but if told it is against the deed remove and move on period. Most people donhjngs then are told because really not everyone reads every little things they signed propbably 85% don't.

perrjojo 07-24-2017 05:59 AM

I think this horse has been beat to death. :crap2:

graciegirl 07-24-2017 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perrjojo (Post 1427470)
I think this horse has been beat to death. :crap2:

Excellent summary. I stand with deed restrictions. It is one of the top reasons we moved HERE.

I just hope that no one near me begins to let their landscape take care of itself and save water in the name of green. Florida Friendly seems like such a lovely NAME,...........

Ugly, some of it. Looks like lazy people live there.


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