Could you please point out the factual errors rather than attacking the writer.

Yes, I see that the attacks on Lauren Ritchie have started already.

My point is the developer sees a trend and is planning for it.



I have NEVER had an issue getting a tee time.



If you look on the courses, rarely do you see a Villages' golf cart. If the "Southern" villagers are significantly impacting the courses...........you would see tons of Villages' golf carts. It ain't happening and you don't see the rentals.



Dooms Day is not around the corner.


:ho:

Yes............Look at the County Budget. Planned expenditures are no where near that amount.


That's why I keep asking posters for factual numbers. Not made up numbers.


Stick to the facts.

UPDATE!

On July 10, 2018 Sumter County Commissioners approved and signed the 30 year NO BID contract with the Villages developers. In this contract it states that the developers can submit reimbursement invoices to Sumter County.

On July 10, 2018 after signing this contract the developers submitted over millions of dollars for reimbursement for projects BEFORE this contract was signed! I have a copy of this executed agreement and no where in the contract does it state that the developers can receive reimbursement money retroactively! Is this illegal? Should the developers pay back these millions back to the taxpayers?

Not a fan of her and I am not a fan of the POA. This thread is a perfect example of who is working for us and who isn't.

The POA has done some good things but when I read this thread...………..nope. So tired of people trying to vote a good way to run things OUT. Tired of the developer being villainized.

Legal advice on ToTV????.......................




:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:

You are correct, in the long run the trend is indisputable. But for people our age, the long run is right now and our golfing opportunities are getting seriously diluted by the rapid expansion without new golf. I am not priority (does not make financial sense for a part timer) and recently had three friends from up North come visit. Try to get a T-Time in the winter for a foursome consisting of a non-priority resident and three resident guests, good luck with that. Besides very early in the AM, or at the end of the PM wave when there might not be enough light to finish the round, I could not get a T- Time despite the cost of $286 for the foursome. I can always sneak out as a single and join others, but when you can’t even get a T-time when guests visit is just not right. Four years ago, before the expansion, my same group of friends came down and we had no problem getting T-times. At least this year when my friends visited, it got really cold out by Villages standards, so we were able to get out because of all the cancellations.

Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.

I hear you.

I'm lucky, I only have two friends from the North and we were able to get on. Disclosure: It was in April so the Snow population is dropping. 2nd Disclosure: I'm an early, early guy. I'm a dew sweeper.

I was wondering that also. Probably not in my lifetime. Can you imagine the Golf View Lot owners at that time???? :shocked:

A whole lot of the existing golf holes will face a big challenge...in getting a road to any new houses. :shrug:

I remember reading and enjoying your post about your marathon golf outing with friends last April😎

This is obviously a multi--year figure.

:blahblahblah:


:blahblahblah:


:blahblahblah:




Of course it is.


And The Villages will expand all the way to Disney too.

What am I missing?
Today is Tuesday and I looked for open t-time for Thursday.
Between 7:22 and noon, there are 108 foursome tee times.
Doesn't make any difference the make up of the foursome, priority, resident or guest.
I don't see the problem...………………...

What championship golf course?

No skin in the game
 

Being from Lake County I'm not affected but the ? I would raise - Is the construction contract that was awarded have legal standing?

According to Florida Statutes
255.20 Local bids and contracts for public construction works;
(1) A county, municipality, special district as defined in chapter 189, or other political subdivision of the state seeking to construct or improve a public building, structure, or other public construction works must competitively award to an appropriately licensed contractor each project that is estimated in accordance with generally accepted cost-accounting principles to cost more than $300,000. For electrical work, the local government must competitively award to an appropriately licensed contractor each project that is estimated in accordance with generally accepted cost-accounting principles to cost more than $75,000. As used in this section, the term “competitively award” means to award contracts based on the submission of sealed bids, proposals submitted in response to a request for proposal, proposals submitted in response to a request for qualifications, or proposals submitted for competitive negotiation.

All. That doesn’t make any difference.
You cannot be choosy and then say there are no tee times,

Been
 

Been here 9+ yrs . Wife and I play 9holes, 3 or more times a week . Am flexible and look for open slots after 9pm night before. In 9 years have not been able to find a time maybe 6 times. If you know how to use the system and are flexible , you can play all the golf that you desire.

I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.

I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.

The golf courses are designed to become flood management areas during extreme wet weather conditions. Not a good place to build homes. Remember Hurricane Irma.

Why can't you be happy and let the developer pay for the infrastructure he needs to keep on building, that is how it works every where else in the country.

He is building new and we are paying for the infrastructure with higher taxes.

Let's be clear about what is meant by "infrastructure"

The issue is the roads, which will eventually be turned over to the county. There is some ambiguity over who initially pays for the roads, and how they are turned over, and what the specific deal REALLY is.

The rest of the infrastructure in TV is paid by the homeowner in the form of the "bond"

The county will maintain these roads and own them. That is why TV is not a truly gated community, you cannot deny use of county roads by the public. The water, sewer, MMPs, electricity are all paid for by the homeowner in their bond.

So the issue comes back to the question: should ALL homeowners in Sumter County pay for roads that "are of no benefit to them"? Previous posts have listed the benefits to all in the form of an improved economy, more jobs, and even free entertainment at the town squares. For a long time , Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida out of 67, now it ranks 15th---quite a benefit!
Previously I posted a list of thing we taxpayers bear the cost of yet derive no benefit: School taxes for childless couples, cell phone surcharges, welfare, food stamp and Medicaid to name a few. We are constantly paying for these things in both obvious and subtle taxes and fees.
Are the developers getting some kind of financial benefit from the road deal---I don't know, but I couldn't care less. They've built a very special place, have run their business very well, and as a result, they are "ultra-rich" WHO CARES. There seem to be a lot of posters that are jealous of their success, or feel that they are owed something from "the rich". NO, YOU AREN'T!!!!!

My question is: what roads does the developer pay for and what roads are the counties responsibility?

My assumption, but I do not know for certain, is that the developer initially paid for the "infrastructure" (infra- means within) which includes among many things, all the roads WITHIN a new village. The home owner's bond then paid for the "infrastructure" within their village through annual payments rather than have each home owner pay for the "infrastructure" by having his/her share added to the cost of their lot. Developers always recoup their costs someway.

My assumption, which may be wrong, is that the county (us taxpayers) then paid for improvements and repair to the regional county roads which includes 468, 501, 466A, 466, Warm Springs road, etc, and the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista, and part of 466A. These regional roads are available and used by many people, villagers and non-villagers alike. IMHO, the cost of maintenance, repairs, and improvements of these roads was not the responsibility of the developer, but was the responsibility of the county. Poor planning on the part of the county meant the significant property tax increase, rather than a smaller increase over past years to accumulate a "rainy day fund."

It is "broke", let's fix it.
 

It is “broke”.

Many of us are aware that it is badly broken, and we are trying to fix it, and whether or not The Villages has nice life style is completely irrelevant. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should be insisting on good government in our community.

The point under discussion is that the five "people connected with the Developer" (your words) on the Sumter County Commission have picked our pockets, and given to the Developer, $186 million (Orlando Sentinel figure). The County Commissioners have done this by massively increasing our taxes to pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via increasing his sweetheart impact fee. That impact fee has been $901/house versus $2,600 for other Sumter County builders versus about $20,000 for a Collier County builder in a retirement community.

Every time you pay your county tax bill, you are, in reality, writing the Developer a check for the amount of your increased tax, and every year that check is going to get bigger and bigger as your assessed value increases. You, apparently, are okay with this. Are you are also okay with the County Commissioners refusing to oppose draining our aquifer for commercial bottling-- thereby increasing our risk of both a water shortage and even more sinkholes?

If you are okay with that sort of stuff, fine; keep voting for the incumbent Commissioners. Many of us are not okay with with that kind of abuse of Sumter residents by the County Commissioners. For that reason, we are marking our calendars to vote out Developer-puppets Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.

What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?
The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.

What are the names of the people who will be running against them??? Are you running?

This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.

No, I am not running. My only objective is to clean up the County Commission.

The POA is endorsing challengers Miller, Estep, and Search. All three have pledged to clean up the County Commission and to roll back the tax hike. Because all three are highly qualified, the POA has vetted them, and, with the POA's endorsement, they have the best chance of ousting the Developer-backed incumbents, I am supporting Miller, Estep, and Search.

I recognize Oren Miller but what are the full names of Estep and Search, please.

The subject is taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes. I only mentioned the names of candidates that I was supporting when asked.

It is hard for me to believe that subjects as important as taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes and their causes should not be discussed here.

Do you have a reason for wanting to stifle discussion? Remember, this thread has been going on for a long time with no objection from anyone. Look at the original post to understand the topic.

Gary Search and Craig Estep. Bios are available on the Sumter County elections website.

A point that seems to be missing is that developers do not pay for impact fees out of their own pockets. An impact fee is just another cost of doing business, and that fee is added to the final cost of the new home. The higher the impact fee, the higher the cost of the new home. In reality the new home owner pays the impact fee.

To paraphrase "The Wizard of Oz", You're not in Collier County any more:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

First, basic business and economics 101: Businesses cannot simply pass on increased costs. Competition prohibits it. A business always charges as much as it believes the market will bear.

If the Developer could charge higher prices without losing sales, he would already be doing it, even before he got hit with a realistic impact fee. If you have studied economics, you know that a demand curve slopes downward: higher prices = fewer units sold. And the Developer does face competition: retirement communities throughout the sunbelt.

But let's assume you are right. Fine, the Developer magically succeeds in passing on 100% of his increased, non-sweetheart impact fee. Then the costs of the infrastructure will be paid for by the new home owners-- exactly the ones necessitating it.

In neither case, are the costs offloaded on the existing Sumter County taxpayers, as the County Commissioners are doing now.

That's for sure.

No, I think you are missing the point.

A "developer" buys land, builds something on it, and then sells it FOR A PROFIT. The difference between his costs and his revenue is his profit margin. Yes, you can put additional costs on the developer, but those costs just get passed on to the consumer. People have argued that he can't pass on all his costs, but guess what---HE CAN. The only thing that keeps the profit margin in check is competition, but there is nothing around here that can compete with TV. I know nothing about Collier County, but it would seem strange that a developer would have to build PUBLIC libraries and PUBLIC police stations at his cost. In effect, that would be the reverse of what you object to----people in a specific development paying for services for the county as a whole

So now, I have to ask, do YOU live in TV or just in a surrounding area of Sumter County?

If all you take is the introductory class Basic Business & Economics 101, you are left uneducated. 201 & 301 expands on the basic economic "rules". The competition to The Villages does not prevent them from passing costs onto the customers.


No one in Sumter is paying $20k. TV could easily pass on an additional $2k and sell every house they can build.

First, I don't know that it is relevant since what we are talking about is common sense, not advanced economic theory, but you raised the issue about my studying beyond Economics 101. In fact, I majored in Economics and was elected to Omicron Delta Epsilon (national economics honorary). Although it has been years since I studied the subject, I haven't forgotten everything, and the realities have not changed.

Perhaps you could explain your assertion about businesses being able to pass all cost increases on to their customers. If you were right, a business would never go bankrupt; it would just raise its prices until it made money. Just for fun, let's dig a little deeper:


Consider this: Why do you think the Developer had his County Commissioners offload his infrastructure costs on to the taxpayers???? Think about it.

To get technical: As you say, if the Developer upped his price by the amount of an increased impact fee, the Developer could eventually sell every house he builds. Product differentiation would permit that. But, because of competition, the sales would take place over a longer period of time and his profits would, therefore, take a serious hit.

Look at it this way, if the Developer could increase his prices in the amount of an increased impact fee without reducing his profits, he should immediately fire his chief financial officer for not having increased prices already, i.e., before the increase in impact fees. It would have been poor business to leave all that money on the table. But nobody has ever accused the Developer of being a bad businessman.

But let's assume you are right and the Developer could successfully pass on 100% of an arm's-length impact fee to the buyers of new homes. I would be fine with that because then you, I, and the other present Sumter County taxpayers would not be paying the Developer's infrastructure costs for him. They would fall on to the house buyers responsible for them.