I think it’s just pushback against those that think the developer walks on water.

Pretty much, yeah. They know that though. They're the ones who used to throw the dodge ball in their opponent's face in the playground. Even when they're right, they're still bullies.

Animosity towards the developers
 

First a history lesson. Mr Schwartz was the original developer for this area. He had a dream that he wanted to build an area for the “average guy” to live out their final days in an affordable area filled with activities for them. In those days you could see Mr. Schwartz walking down the street talking to the average guy. He was a personable , friendly man who cared about people. His goal was to keep the area small and affordable. As the area got bigger, he made a promise to all that the area would never get too large to forget the people.
When he passed, the children and grandchildren took over and their greed set in. Suddenly the people were forgotten and services were taken away, taxes were raised in the newer area by 25% in one year. This directly related to the impact fees. Studies weren’t done at how the building would affect the people. Instead the people were expected to “pay” for the impact of the new areas instead of the developer absorbing the costs who was the one making all the money from the building. The “villagers” were expected to pay for new services such as roads, fire depts, police depts, etc. when the people balked at this they “bought” the people making those decisions. If fact, in Sumter , one man makes all the decisions relating to the expansion of the villages. He makes close to $400,000 a year paid for by the developers. Naturally, he’s not going to bite the hand that feeds him so he votes their way instead of the wish of the area people. When the people balked at the expansion , he disregarded an entire room of people as well as an overflow crowd expressing negative comments regarding the expansion, yet he stopped a citizen who wanted to build a carport onto his home on his multi acre farm. They even went so far as buying a senator again by paying his salary, who stopped the impact fees that were going to be accessed so as to keep taxes down to the village people. The people don’t want apartments at La Hacienda or in the squares. Lake county voted them down in Spanish Springs. They are now being brought to court by the developers despite an overflowing crowding wanting them voted down. Those commissioners listened to the people there since they live outside the Villages. As for La Hacienda , they took away the country club for the area residents and are now putting multistory apartments there instead. They were told if they didn’t vote for the apartments they would build a multistory parking garage there instead.
So you see , it is the fact that Mr Schwartz’s dream is being ruined of the Villages being for the “average guy” by greedy children and grandchildren and that is why there is such unrest among the people of the Villages.

It’s class envy.

Also most retirees have a lot of spare time on their hands mixed with the class envy and there you have it.

Me? I’m going to enjoy my retirement and hope the family makes a lot of money !

I liken this argument to cruising......what it is today vs what it was when we started 30 yrs ago is basically very different.....anything that does not DIE continues to grow and has to evolve....be it human or a business. There will be people that are taking their first cruise POST COVID that will think it is amazing.....but for us we are probably done doing something we enjoyed very much, because we realize the changes that are required will be just too much for us to be able to enjoy anymore. When you can not go where you want when you want without an apt (gym, dining, shows, even the buffets according to todays article in Cruise News), just takes the fun out of it for us. We ENJOY waking up when we want and doing what we choose vs having to "schedule" everything by appointment for "contact tracing" purposes to comply with the CDC requirements.

If you have not experienced this kind of growth and evolution in ANY business you use today vs 30 yrs ago, and BENEFITED from it, I would have to assume you suffer from serious memory issues.

If I was as miserable living here as some of you seem to be, I would change what I could, vs whining all the time.

Long time residents are aware that the Developer has done some shady things in the past and can't be trusted. Research the class action lawsuit brought against The developer due to misuse of amenity funds, that was settled to the tune of something like $40 million.

I sure am glad they developed TVs. No place like it on earth!

[QUOTE=Rsenholzi;1965087 So you see , it is the fact that Mr Schwartz’s dream is being ruined of the Villages being for the “average guy” by greedy children and grandchildren and that is why there is such unrest among the people of the Villages.[/QUOTE]

Another posting with no facts.

The average 60 year old makes over $85,000.
The average 60 year old has a net worth over $1,200,000
The "average guy" can still afford The Villages, nothing is ruined.

"Unrest"...............is by a very, very small group of people.
Where in the USA is there not a very, very small group of unhappy people.

:ho:

I wonder if Spruce Creek has Dell Webb haters.

We've been attempting to find a reasonably priced villa to rent out lately, and when we got priced out of the Villages, we started looking in Spruce Creek -- which reminded me why we bought our retirement home in the Villages.

The golf course there was empty and the greens had brown patches and bare spots that I could see from the road. Here, people complain when they can't get a morning tee time in the off season, and if it quits raining for a month they complain about brown patches in the fairways. We even have people sneaking on to play golf when the course is closed!

There, the sole community center was a ghost town. Here, the paper's weekly publication of the activities in all dozens of community centers is bigger than the Sports or Living sections. And get this -- we even have our own paper!

Here in the summer heat, golf carts are zooming around everywhere, and everyone I meet on my morning walk waves and gives me a "good morning!". There, they have big lawns with fences, but you'd have to bang on some doors to discover if anyone lives in those little painfully-identical houses. You certainly don't see them on the streets.

I live in a 20-year-old "village", that I'm sure "the developer" could care less about. The streets are still beautiful, the flowers still blooming, the lawns still manicured, the pools full of people, the public places still look like they were built yesterday. In Spruce Creek the only flowers I saw were next to someone's front porch.

How do you know you're in a great place to live? Complainers!

///

In the fifteen years that we have been observing closely this remarkable place, the developers have not done anything that would not be a benefit to the overall place and to us and of course make this whole place a more desirable place to buy into.

I am liking that. Maybe Mark Morse is like Attilla the Hun, but I sort of get that he is a responsible man, born in Michigan with great parents who raised him kinda like most of the people here were raised. He and his Sisters and their parents have wagered their own money time and time again on this place and they have made a place like few others on this earth. They did it without government funding and without gouging us. I think that they have tried to provide a lovely place to live for most people's means.

I am a huge fan of the process of good businesses doing good things. I see companies like The Villages being careful not to waste money. It is THEIR money. It is also great to see that they provide employment for the people who build and also for all of the related industries that provide for the people who live here.

I like the way that works.

Perhaps a course in remedial reading is needed. I didn't say I wanted to change anything. I did say they need to widen some roads, unless, of course, you never drove those roads, or you don't mind sitting in a parking lot, when you are driving. Maybe you like socialism. To each his own.

The way I look at it is who from the Developers Staff is out to hurt me today? That's correct. NOBODY.

We've seen this same kind of wavelength at a Family Camp Ground on the Delaware River in Pennsylvania. The owners were constantly trying to update, maintain and improve the operation for those who were Seasonal Residents and for the weekend visitors. They like the Morris (Morse) Gang were constantly hammered for doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

The 5th wheel and travel trailers that many people owned were stunningly beautiful and the owners were of the $$ same caliber $$ as many people who cry the same river as those in The Villages.

I don't love 'em, I don't hate anyone. The Developers don't impact my life at this moment one bit. I think I would like to take a moment to thank them for maintaining such a beautiful place to live for us even though it's filled with a lot of negative people.

I think some people mischaracterize a changing marketing plan as a "broken promise". I never met Harold Schwartz. He never promised me a thing. I was a dentist in a practice that my grandfather started in 1925. I don't think I'd have had much of a practice in 2010 if I felt I had to do everything the way Grandpa did. And there were some people who complained that I didn't do everything the way Grandpa did. Well, too bad. Grandpa ain't here anymore.

Well said.

When you run out of logical things to say, get angry or get silly. Happens often.

As always a voice of reason, thank you

Slackers...

I knew we could find things to agree on! :)

GREED! Everybody drink!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Sorry, but...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d84a...temid=15116689

The only Buffalo I know is Buffalo Trace.....

There was also a matter of false advertising, when the Developer promised free trail fees, free cable TV, free RV storage, free trash pickup, to anyone who purchased before a certain date. The Developer cancelled it all, and were subsequently sued. A settlement created a grandfathering in of exemptions to paying those fees for those homeowners.

Then there was the Paradise Rec Center, which was infested with termites and rodents, and had mold. The Developer (by way of the VCCDD) wanted to wash their hands of it, and were then sued and made to pay to have the old building torn down and replaced with a new one.

The Developer created a BEAUTIFUL community. But they cut corners (so many of you forget the 1000 or so homes with cracked foundations all built after 2008). They've reneged on promises, both verbal and in written advertisements. They have had to be sued in order to be required to live up to their claims.

And now they're suing my town because they want to change the commercial zoning of the Spanish Springs Town Square, which is located in Lady Lake, and turn it into mixed use. They've already been told no. But no isn't good enough for them so they're forcing the town to waste taxpayer money on a lawsuit.

There have been worse "creators/caretakers/overseers" of communities. There ARE worse. But to think the Morse Family is nicey-nicey and never does anything wrong is disingenuous, and frankly the people who make these ridiculous claims glorifying and practically deifying the Morse Family just give this community a BAD reputation of having a majority of residents with their heads stuck firmly in their nether regions.

👍🍺.

Why should you be able to change someone's business into something different when you have no investment in their business? The only thing you spent was the cost of your property. If people would read their covenants and do their research before they buy they would know what they are getting into. The good news is the negativity is the minority view unless of course you believe that all the folks moving here are either ignorant or stupid. The Developers have provided more than an outstanding opportunity for those that are looking for a place to retirement. I've been here 10 years including a rental period.....if you have been here longer then I challenge you to go visit where you came from and see if that place is the same as it was when you left it or has it changed and grown. You might be surprised.

JM, you just can't help some sad people.
I hope the OJ finds happiness.
:)

///

I don't know where YOU come from, but on MY planet, property taxpayers and registered voters have a say in matters when someone petitions their town for a zoning change (the lawsuit by the Developer against Lady Lake because the town doesn't want to change the zoning of the commercial district known as Spanish Springs Town Square).

And - I'm not looking for change. I'm looking to PREVENT change. We moved into a specific thing. Obviously there is room for improvement, but there's no need to make it something else. It's like moving into an apartment building and then the owner of the building says "nope it's a condo now, you have to buy it, or move out." Or if they say "we're opening up the entire first floor into a homeless shelter, but you're still obligated to continue paying rent because you signed a lease." Or if you chose to live in the gated exclusive area of the Villages, and suddenly they buy three of the houses in the area and decide to subdivide it into 20 new townhouses.

You don't want to get it. And that's fine. It's not a big deal because it doesn't affect you. When the change happens "in your back yard" (metaphorically speaking) you might think otherwise.

no you didn't.

Socialism?
That is pure US Capitalism at its finest!

Here we go again and again and again......nonsense examples...

The space is not an apartment, no one lives there, no one is being required to buy or move. It's empty space being converted. Look around the USA, many places are converting empty commercial space into living spaces.....warehouses, retail stores, schools, offices building. Great way to take dead property and give it life.

Second silly example.....No one is being required to continue paying on a lease without use of property. The proposed use will be the opposite of a homeless shelter.

No one is buying homes and converting to townhouses. No one lives next to the proposed converted property. A land developer wants to continue to develop.

Maybe you can tie in the Man in the Moon somehow.

:clap2:

Sorry. Your time is up!

Just ignore all the negativity reguarding the developer, restaurant critics, neighborhood Nellies. They have nothing better to do.
Just enjoy the ride and look for positive people.

Could you please list your sources for the average 60 year old making over $85,000 and the average 60 year old having a net worth of over $1,200,000?

The closest I could find was for 60-64, the Median HOUSEHOLD retirement income was about $70K and the Mean Household retirement income was about $101K...


* Per the US Census Bureau...

average income 60 year old - Google Search

And according to CNBC, the average HOUSEHOLD Net Worth (ages 55-64) is about $1.176 Million...


Here'''s the Average Net Worth of Americans Ages 55 to 64

It was a Google search. Don't have the site saved.

The problem with an “average” is that outliers or numbers that are much lower or higher than the others can throw the average number off and make it an unreliable figure. In the US, income is concentrated at high levels (top 10% for example) and the rest at low and mid levels. These very high income American raise the “average net worth” to a much higher figure than the “average Joe” in America actually has.

A better number where the distribution of incomes is very wide would be the “median” number. This would show that half have more than the median amount and half have less than the median. So in your source they mention that the “average” household net worth of 55-64 year old household is $1.176 Million. Yet the median reported in the same article is much lower and comes in at $212,500. So the median or middle income household in the USA at age 60 has a net worth closer to $212,500 not 1.2 Million. Where there is a wide difference in numbers a median is more accurate than an average. The American in the middle is not a millionaire.