Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   Alarming Rise In Retractions Of Research Papers (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/alarming-rise-retractions-research-papers-353251/)

CybrSage 09-27-2024 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LianneMigiano (Post 2373823)
The worst offender is faux news....

Not in the slightest. CNN had to settle a $200 million lawsuit out of court due to purposefully altering a video to try and destroy the life of a child due to that child holding a political view CNN does not agree with.

Blaming one side only when both sides are guilty is why we re in the mess we are today.

Be better

CybrSage 09-27-2024 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 2373975)
You forgot to mention the con artists who claim to speak for their god.

And don't forget the con artists who call people who speak for their god con artists.

dtennent 09-27-2024 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2374065)
11,300 of the retractions were for only two branches of science, not all of them.

If we are going to evaluate science, let's at least use the data correctly.

And in the first point, I said “Assume….” Not that I believed the number. My point is that retractions are a tiny percentage of all papers published. Given the resources at hand, I didn’t think I could come up with an accurate number of the actual retractions in a relatively short period of time.

CybrSage 09-27-2024 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2374016)
Its a matter of critical thinking, "let's say that Chicago and Philadelphia refuse to report violent crime. So, they get left OUT of the FBI report every year. That report will still be of value for evaluating the National TREND, which is the main point of the FBI report. The US as an entity is much greater than a FEW cities." only IF that has been the practice in the past. Electroshock therapy , prefrontal lobotomy were seen by intuitions as a new froward thinking opportunity for those with phycological problems, and so it continues

Incorrect. In 2021, the FBI stopped accepting submissions from the old collectiin system and only used the new collection system. That year, it lost roughly 30% of the data it normally received. The FabI itself said no trend could be reported due to this.

Anyone who used the data from 2021 forward would present false trends. As an example, the FBI later went back and gathered data about hate crimes from the old system and added that info and discovered they went up by 21% from 2020 to 2021 rather than going down like the incomplete data showed.

Police departments are still transitioning to the new system,so all trends report led are still using incomplete data. Any trends shown are useless and those reporting them know this. They also know most people do not.

Both sides of the aisle are taking advantage of this to sell lies.

EDIT: as an aside, it took me longer to type this post than it did to find the info contained in it.

CybrSage 09-27-2024 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtennent (Post 2374081)
And in the first point, I said “Assume….” Not that I believed the number. My point is that retractions are a tiny percentage of all papers published. Given the resources at hand, I didn’t think I could come up with an accurate number of the actual retractions in a relatively short period of time.

Assuming a false premise creates a logically unsound argument.

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 2373975)
You forgot to mention the con artists who claim to speak for their god.

That goes without saying. God, if he/she/it/they exist, created the entire universe and everyone and everything in it without one single monetary contribution. Imagine that! 🫠

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2374078)
And don't forget the con artists who call people who speak for their god con artists.

Fruit ripe for the picking.

spd2918 09-27-2024 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2373860)
Hurricane season in FL....

Everything is climate change according to the true believers. It's a cult.

Sandabern 09-27-2024 10:04 AM

I used to work for a well known "research hospital". They used to go around and "brag" about the fact that you could pretty much get the results you wanted from their research "based upon the extent of testing". As long as the grant money was sufficient, the test results would come out just fine. It wasn't even hidden and used as marketing for grant money/donations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2373490)
For those of you who "trust the media", "trust the experts", "trust the science" or "trust the government", or think data is unbiased or even consistently accurate:

Recent evidence indicates the constant pressure to generate data and publish papers may be affecting the quality of research and fueling retractions of research papers.

In the past decade, there have been more than 39,000 retractions, and the annual number of retractions is growing by around 23% each year.

Nearly half the retractions were due to issues related to the authenticity of the data.

Plagiarism was the second most common reason research papers were retracted, accounting for 16% of retractions.

Fake peer review was another reason why research papers were retracted.

Read the rest here


Sandabern 09-27-2024 10:14 AM

Nichols reporting on fraud is like Al Capone reporting on money laundering. Whenever he's questioned on anything, he runs, hides or deflects.
Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2373548)
Talked with a PhD friend who used to teach at UMASS undergraduates.
He has no desire to read and grade papers anymore, and professors who do grade papers, have to trick the students to catch them using AI. and then run them through plagarism software.

There is a book about this, "The Death of Expertise", by Tom Nichols, a former US Naval war school professor and legislative aid.

And the world keeps moving forward somehow!


fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2374013)
About 100%. Let me rephrase: 99% of global warming papers are fake. The only truly accurate papers are those that show global warming is cyclical and has nothing to do with human activity

Oh, look! A family of cheetahs! 😃

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2373991)
Huh? Okay, so we are doing a study on US crime. Up or down? Well, it would make us look bad if we told the truth, so let's use data that excludes major crime centers. Voila! Crime is down! We weren't trying to mislead you! Same with the fake jobs report that keeps getting revised down by several hundred thousand every single time. No misleading, just made an honest mistake!

So tell me, did we only need data from zip codes 32159, 32162 and 32163 to prove crime is down? I mean, that's several data points.

Sorry, your argument is not convincing.

It is said that, "the TREND is your FRIEND". Whether one data point about jobs is revised up or down is REALLY NOT important. What IS important is the TREND. The same is true when discussing US CRIME.The SAME FEW cities that do not report each time will NOT affect the TREND. Just look at a graph of the total US crime over TIME and see if the US is succeeding or failing to protect its citizens. I believe that crime per capita is FALLING today.

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2373991)
Huh? Okay, so we are doing a study on US crime. Up or down? Well, it would make us look bad if we told the truth, so let's use data that excludes major crime centers. Voila! Crime is down! We weren't trying to mislead you! Same with the fake jobs report that keeps getting revised down by several hundred thousand every single time. No misleading, just made an honest mistake!

So tell me, did we only need data from zip codes 32159, 32162 and 32163 to prove crime is down? I mean, that's several data points.

Sorry, your argument is not convincing.

I fear you are being intentionally obtuse!

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2374013)
About 100%. Let me rephrase: 99% of global warming papers are fake. The only truly accurate papers are those that show global warming is cyclical and has nothing to do with human activity

It sounds like North Minneapolis would be a terrible place to live. Makes you glad that you live in The Villages. They might need to form a residents association to patrol the streets or seek help from the State. Police are too important to ANY community to allow them to engage in "stand down" tactics.

Pugchief 09-27-2024 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2374016)
Its a matter of critical thinking, "let's say that Chicago and Philadelphia refuse to report violent crime. So, they get left OUT of the FBI report every year. That report will still be of value for evaluating the National TREND, which is the main point of the FBI report. The US as an entity is much greater than a FEW cities." only IF that has been the practice in the past. Electroshock therapy , prefrontal lobotomy were seen by intuitions as a new froward thinking opportunity for those with phycological problems, and so it continues

LOL, no. If the previous data included ALL cities, and the you take out some cities, the trend is not real. You have to compare ALL cities in the baseline year to ALL cities in the comparison year to actually see the true trend. Which they didn't do.

And to make matters worse, the police aren't responding to as many calls or making as many arrests due to pressure from above. Then prosecutors aren't filing the same degree of charges on rare occasions when they actually prosecute. All leading to more fake comparisons over given time frames.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2374013)
About 100%. Let me rephrase: 99% of global warming papers are fake. The only truly accurate papers are those that show global warming is cyclical and has nothing to do with human activity

Sorry that my response about Minneapolis went to the wrong poster. As far as Global Warming goes we just had a Cat 4 hurricane hit Tallahassee. It set an all-time record for rapid intensification and the strongest ever to hit Tallahassee. This is because the Gulf waters are very HOT, maybe also an all time record for Sept. Global Warming is proved, not just by strong hurricanes, but by actual temperature measurement. They show increasing warming for the recent time period starting about 30 years ago and getting HOTTER worldwide each year. We are NOT out of the Hurricane Season yet. And next year will likely be even HOTTER.
.......There are 22 deaths attributed to Hurricane Helene as of right now.

bp243 09-27-2024 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2373490)
For those of you who "trust the media", "trust the experts", "trust the science" or "trust the government", or think data is unbiased or even consistently accurate:

Recent evidence indicates the constant pressure to generate data and publish papers may be affecting the quality of research and fueling retractions of research papers.

In the past decade, there have been more than 39,000 retractions, and the annual number of retractions is growing by around 23% each year.

Nearly half the retractions were due to issues related to the authenticity of the data.

Plagiarism was the second most common reason research papers were retracted, accounting for 16% of retractions.

Fake peer review was another reason why research papers were retracted.

Read the rest here

Herein lies the issue. Everyone who questions the validity of a study or someone’s hypothesis needs to dig deeper, particularly if you’re going to use that information to make a decision for yourself. Some studies are flawed as many have pointed out here, but it takes time to figure out why. Evaluative thinking should be our own responsibility and it’s one of the reasons why we have the luxury of exercising our brains.

Pugchief 09-27-2024 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2374085)
Incorrect. In 2021, the FBI stopped accepting submissions from the old collectiin system and only used the new collection system. That year, it lost roughly 30% of the data it normally received. The FabI itself said no trend could be reported due to this.

Anyone who used the data from 2021 forward would present false trends. As an example, the FBI later went back and gathered data about hate crimes from the old system and added that info and discovered they went up by 21% from 2020 to 2021 rather than going down like the incomplete data showed.

Police departments are still transitioning to the new system,so all trends report led are still using incomplete data. Any trends shown are useless and those reporting them know this. They also know most people do not.

Both sides of the aisle are taking advantage of this to sell lies.

EDIT: as an aside, it took me longer to type this post than it did to find the info contained in it.

3 years later and they're still transitioning? LOL, believe any narrative you want, but people who live in cities are complaining it's not as safe.

CybrSage 09-27-2024 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374155)
It is said that, "the TREND is your FRIEND". Whether one data point about jobs is revised up or down is REALLY NOT important. What IS important is the TREND. The same is true when discussing US CRIME.The SAME FEW cities that do not report each time will NOT affect the TREND. Just look at a graph of the total US crime over TIME and see if the US is succeeding or failing to protect its citizens. I believe that crime per capita is FALLING today.

Not true, the FBi stopped collecting data from the old reporting system in 2021. The cities not reporting are still using the old system.

The various police forces are only moving to the new system, slowing increasing the data used.

There is no valid trend data available from 2021 onward, not until they all start using the new system.

Google exists, you should try it. It took me longer to type this I do than it took me to find it.

CybrSage 09-27-2024 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2374174)
3 years later and they're still transitioning? LOL, believe any narrative you want, but people who live in cities are complaining it's not as safe.

This info is directly from the FBI itself, the same people gathering and then reporting the data.

It is easy to believe the many police districts in NYC aline are not yet transitioned, considering all the "define the police" cries there have been.

You choosing to not believe the truth is a you issue.

Pugchief 09-27-2024 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374155)
It is said that, "the TREND is your FRIEND". Whether one data point about jobs is revised up or down is REALLY NOT important. What IS important is the TREND. The same is true when discussing US CRIME.The SAME FEW cities that do not report each time will NOT affect the TREND. Just look at a graph of the total US crime over TIME and see if the US is succeeding or failing to protect its citizens. I believe that crime per capita is FALLING today.

The trend is only a trend if comparable data points are used between time frames for measurement. See my post #97.

CybrSage 09-27-2024 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374172)
Sorry that my response about Minneapolis went to the wrong poster. As far as Global Warming goes we just had a Cat 4 hurricane hit Tallahassee. It set an all-time record for rapid intensification and the strongest ever to hit Tallahassee. This is because the Gulf waters are very HOT, maybe also an all time record for Sept. Global Warming is proved, not just by strong hurricanes, but by actual temperature measurement. They show increasing warming for the recent time period starting about 30 years ago and getting HOTTER worldwide each year. We are NOT out of the Hurricane Season yet. And next year will likely be even HOTTER.
.......There are 22 deaths attributed to Hurricane Helene as of right now.

The rise in global temps would be happening regardless of human activity. The Milkanovitch Cycles show this clearly. We can expect more warming by nature alone.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2374137)
Everything is climate change according to the true believers. It's a cult.

As far as a "cult" goes it is those that deny science that are in a CULT.

spd2918 09-27-2024 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374184)
As far as a "cult" goes it is those that deny science that are in a CULT.

When your science is politicized it is no longer valid. When your science is propped up by governments seeking new taxes it is no longer valid. When the media only reports science items favorable to the lie it is no longer exists.

And, as we see in this thread, when research papers are falsified to continue funding it is no longer valid.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandabern (Post 2374139)
I used to work for a well known "research hospital". They used to go around and "brag" about the fact that you could pretty much get the results you wanted from their research "based upon the extent of testing". As long as the grant money was sufficient, the test results would come out just fine. It wasn't even hidden and used as marketing for grant money/donations.

No system is perfect and free from people that want to "play or USE" the system. But, if a system is well designed and tested for flaws, it can produce worthwhile results.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2374146)
Oh, look! A family of cheetahs! 😃

Oh no, they are going to scratch up the golf course.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2374174)
3 years later and they're still transitioning? LOL, believe any narrative you want, but people who live in cities are complaining it's not as safe.

"People who live in cities are claiming that it is not as safe". I could complain that in the street that I live at in The Villages - cars, trucks, and golf carts are going by at about DOUBLE the speed limit. Some golf carts are exceeding 30 MPH. I have NEVER, in over 10 years, seen a traffic stop by Police. About 30 % of the golf carts go by at 20 MPH and 70% exceed that.

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2374179)
The rise in global temps would be happening regardless of human activity. The Milkanovitch Cycles show this clearly. We can expect more warming by nature alone.

Well in THAT case, we better ALL contact California and tell them NOT to bother requiring automobiles to be ELECTRIC after a certain year. It is those WASSKALLY Milkanovitchy twitchy cycles causing ALL our Global heating problems.........who knew ?????

jimjamuser 09-27-2024 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2374185)
When your science is politicized it is no longer valid. When your science is propped up by governments seeking new taxes it is no longer valid. When the media only reports science items favorable to the lie it is no longer exists.

And, as we see in this thread, when research papers are falsified to continue funding it is no longer valid.

Scientists go out of their way to NOT be affected by Politics. They are the most apolitical part of our society. As far as "governments seeking new taxes" goes it is hard for me to conceptualize ANY government NOT seeking new taxes. Should we still be taxing horse and buggies and NOT taxing automobiles because they are newer? Should we NEVER tax A.I. or Tik Tok because they are NEW?????
......I don't understand?

Bill14564 09-27-2024 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2374185)
When your science is politicized it is no longer valid. When your science is propped up by governments seeking new taxes it is no longer valid. When the media only reports science items favorable to the lie it is no longer exists.

And, as we see in this thread, when research papers are falsified to continue funding it is no longer valid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston (Post 2374205)
I have no skin in this one as I operate on my own observations/experiences. That said...

Couldnt your last sentence describe....for example, cancer research? Which ‘evolves’ on a daily basis. Slippery slope

When those that don't like the outcome determine that science is politicized or propped up by governments or only selectively reported by the media they don't agree with, then you have a cult.

Science learns and grows. What was understood to be a treatment or a cure for a disease at one point may be later shown to have no real connection. Long term research into something like cancer will likely have reached many dead ends while pursuing what looked like promising results; that's just the way science works. Unfortunately, that doesn't meet the standards of the cult's skepticism and 20/20 hindsight.

it would be interesting to know how many of those papers flagged by AI or some other algorithm as having potential plagiarism or an objectionable email address or an international connection were 1. guilty of the accusation; and 2. inaccurate/wrong. While a plagiarized paper doesn't add to the body of science and never should have been published, its results may be just as accurate as the papers it copied.

Bill14564 09-27-2024 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston (Post 2374221)
Confused, since you packaged my post with someone else’s. My post was...in much less verbiage, was in the same spirit as yours. Thus the ‘slippery slope’ comment. But it is almost Halloween , and if cult is the theme, gotta find my purple shroud and purple Nike’s!

Sorry, I was attempting to agree. Science is criticized when it doesn't come up with the right answer the first time and very quickly. It gets accused of being wrong, slow, biased, etc. However, the right answer the first time doesn't always happen and for no nefarious reasons. You had a good example with cancer research - better and closer all the time but not there yet.

Pugchief 09-27-2024 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374192)
"People who live in cities are claiming that it is not as safe". I could complain that in the street that I live at in The Villages - cars, trucks, and golf carts are going by at about DOUBLE the speed limit. Some golf carts are exceeding 30 MPH. I have NEVER, in over 10 years, seen a traffic stop by Police. About 30 % of the golf carts go by at 20 MPH and 70% exceed that.

And your point is what? Yes, some Villagers have their golf carts rigged to exceed 20mph. No one argues that fact, it's accepted. Feel free to complain. But just like that reality, crime is way up, but certain forces want you to believe otherwise, based on cooked data.

Pugchief 09-27-2024 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374192)
"People who live in cities are claiming that it is not as safe". I could complain that in the street that I live at in The Villages - cars, trucks, and golf carts are going by at about DOUBLE the speed limit. Some golf carts are exceeding 30 MPH. I have NEVER, in over 10 years, seen a traffic stop by Police. About 30 % of the golf carts go by at 20 MPH and 70% exceed that.

Also, math says that double the speed limit (20 mph) would be 40. But you say the speeders are going 30. More fake data. :rolleyes:

Pugchief 09-27-2024 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374201)
Scientists go out of their way to NOT be affected by Politics. They are the most apolitical part of our society.

Not just false, but the opposite of reality.

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2374179)
The rise in global temps would be happening regardless of human activity. The Milkanovitch Cycles show this clearly. We can expect more warming by nature alone.

Agree that Earth would be warming on its own, but not this quickly. It is human activity in total that has kicked the warming into overdrive. We can expect more warming, but it won't be by mother nature alone.

jmpate 09-27-2024 04:11 PM

Retractions in Research
 
I take most "research" with a hand of salt bc their data is neither "valid nor reliable;" two terms that measure accurate (reliable and valid) data. I become most incensed when the research involves clinical/medical treatments bc patients' lives and their well being are affected.

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2374224)
Sorry, I was attempting to agree. Science is criticized when it doesn't come up with the right answer the first time and very quickly. It gets accused of being wrong, slow, biased, etc. However, the right answer the first time doesn't always happen and for no nefarious reasons. You had a good example with cancer research - better and closer all the time but not there yet.

Science is bunk! Bring back blood letting, leeches and voodoo! 👹👹👹 (I hope you realize this is a joke!

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2374189)
Oh no, they are going to scratch up the golf course.

I was attempting to get golfing eagles mind back on his African trip. 😀😄☺️

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2374232)
Also, math says that double the speed limit (20 mph) would be 40. But you say the speeders are going 30. More fake data. :rolleyes:

What about the cars and trucks? 50+ on some stretches, particularly on BV and Morse Blvd. Let's just say that exceeding the speed limits by 50% is very common.

fdpaq0580 09-27-2024 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2374232)
Also, math says that double the speed limit (20 mph) would be 40. But you say the speeders are going 30. More fake data. :rolleyes:

A statement exaggerated to make a point is simply that, an exaggerated statement. Not "data", real or fake. And not presented as data. Jmho. 🫠


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.32 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.