But that wouldn't explain all the different forms of worship from the beginning of recorded history, like sun worship etc. What good is instilling a need with no focus? We have the Jewish religion that believes Jesus was just a philosopher and the Christian religion that believes Jesus was the son of God. Did God plan it that way?

If man wants to know God, he comes as a seeker who does not know, but longs to.
It is God's work to reveal himself...it is beyond man's ability to force an intellectual meeting with the Almighty on a field of challenge that man chooses.

Thanks o much Gracie. I am crazy about you also. Such a bright, caring person. I hope all is well with you.:bigbow:

Some thoughtful and civil posts in this thread. I think we all agree, though, that it's really hard if not impossible to fit our ideas/arguments into a blog format.

I'd really respectfully suggest that people read "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist" by Norman Grieser. It is written by a believer in God, and it does a very good job of addressing these questions surrounding the "Big Bang Theory, its history and its various permutations over the decades.

It doesn't have to convince you, just make you perhaps think about this great topic in another way - from a devout religious person's well educated view.

Random thoughts on religion:
 

How many people believe that the Bible is the word of God? To those who do, where does it say anything about a singularity that exploded?

For a long time religious people ridiculed the Big Bang Theory. Now, slowly, some seek to claim it as their own, as God's creation. Talk about wanting to have it both ways.

It seems like what it boils down to, for many, is moral relativism. There's no right religion or wrong religion, it's all good as long as you express it with warmth and conviction.

Religious freedom and its moral relativism is great as long as your favorite religion is in the majority. But how would we feel if those of the Muslim faith became the majority and started to implement Sharia law? There are Christians who say our right to freedom comes from God. If that's the case, then Muslims can change that right based on their particular faith.

Just food for thought.

A good thread.

:bigbow:

Nice post VPL… definitely thought-provoking! Now take cover for incoming… :popcorn:

I re-reviewed ever one of the posts on this thread. One poster spoke of moral relativism and from the manner in which many responded I can see relevance
to the conversations at hand. The primary camps have been faith and science one or the other. And those stories, lessons, theories etc are passed along from one generation to another man to man woman to woman and to say it is all true because I told you just doesn't sit right for me. and to have a scientist say that this is settled doesn't either because as time passes so too do these settled scientific theories change and evolve into something else altogether.

My position is that we will never know. I do agree and support the notion that we should look for answers but I am convinced that man is lacking in what is needed to grasp the totality of it all. This subject matter is well beyond our comprehension.

Reminds me of a story. A scientist has a meeting with God and says, "God, we don't need you anymore. We can create life ourselves. Just let me show you. First you take some dirt. God stops him and says: "Get your own dirt"

Some Quick Notes
 

While I cannot provide a definitive answer to the two questions that VPL asked, if I understand what kitty is suggesting, and that being that man has blocked his “approachability” with denial or a heart that disallows God’s entreaties, then the result will be something other than God’s intended goal.

God’s freewill gift to us is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that we can choose faith or no faith. The curse is that we can choose faith or no faith. Two or more people, each having shared identical experiences, will rarely, due to filtering through their own personal histories, end up with indistinguishable conclusions; similar, perhaps, but rarely identical. Our freewill (and what a powerful and liberating gift [except for its simultaneous curse]) is perhaps one of the most valuable gifts that God has given to mortal man, second only to His Son which delivered, to us, Grace. We can choose. We can choose right or wrong. We can choose life or death. We can choose to have faith or not to have faith. We can choose to believe or not to believe. Or can we?

I believe in God. It is comforting to know that the Triune has been forever. It is comforting to know that the Triune will be forever. While I must admit that it is a challenge for me to comprehend, before the Big Bang, that there was no time and that there was nothing but an infinite singularity, there is some comfort in knowing that there was/is “something out there” that is greater than mankind. I believe that something to be God.

I am additionally pleased that it is not up to me to judge the belief of others nor is it up to me to judge the unbelief of others. I do think it is sad that the non-believers have no source or no anchor on which to lean when their worlds are falling apart. The opposite of that is also sad; to whom do they turn when they want to thank “someone” for the extraordinary lives that they may be living: or do they think that it is all of their own doing? (Sadly that used to be me. Gladly that used to be me).

God did not need a bang for his creation. Either one believes God was our creator or not and there are still many things that will never be clear but that is where faith comes in. God does not owe it to us for us to understand. To seek God you must first believe that he is. If one has experienced the drawing power of God and salvation after repentance for themselves then they have their confirmation and they know for certain what they have is real.

Hebrews Chapter 11 is often referred to as the Chapter of Faith. These examples are only a few of many to help us realize that faith is necessary.

Hebrews Chapter 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Very good post. However, I would add there is no right religion, wrong religion OR NO RELIGION. For some to use religion as a way to make sense of the world and our existence is total arrogance. Science keeps searching for answers and those answers keep evolving, however, some regions believe they are the only answer. Unfortunate!

In 1992 the Catholic Church finally agreed that the Earth revolved around the sun.
It is good to have faith, but faith should not be used to oppose the free search for truth.

I am interested in the basis for that sentence. Judaism IIRC, has absolutely nothing to say about Jesus, or Buddha, or Mohammad, or the great pumpkin.