I just don't believe that there would have been a need to put duct tape on Caylee's mouth had she drowned. Absolutely no need whatsoever. She would have already been dead!! In my mind the prosecution's case is going to come down to the duct tape and chloroform. Caylee was going to be silenced one way or another, whether she was having a tantrum and Casey couldn't stand it or whether she wanted to go out to a club and Caylee was in her way of a good time. The whole "drowning in the pool" theory makes no sense based on the evidence found on Caylee's body and the internet searches that were done on chloroform, neck-breaking, etc. They will prove that this WAS premeditated murder in one degree or another. I think that some of Casey's lying behavior has rubbed off on Mr. Baez.....the drowning story reeks of another big lie. I can't imagine this lawyer coming up with such a stupid defense in light of the evidence in this case. Any credibility he may have had with me drowned the day he presented this outrageous story to the jury.

If...
 

The only other reason for the duct tape that I can see would be to support the kidnapping story if and when the body was found. Unless it can be proved that she was still alive when it was applied, it very likely was not the cause of death. After autopsy, the medical examiner said in her press conference that the exact cause of death could not be determined but that it was homicide.

I've not only been following this on TV but on Tony Pipitone's blog. He puts out a lot of good information. He seems to be the only reporter without bias either way. (One poster on the blog pointed this out by saying that a reporter on one of the other channels had basically already called her guilty.) One thing he brought out is that in Florida, homicide is not always murder. That surprised me because I thought that that was just another word for murder. Apparently not so.

Another thing he cleared up was the information put out there that it took Baez 8 tries to pass the bar. Not true. He had background issues which had to be resolved which were not very pretty. That is what kept him from getting his license for a long time. A couple of the issues had to do with deliquent child support and bad checks. That was just two mentioned but that there were others as well.

He also pointed out that an attorney cannot "dump" a client just because that attorney finds out the client is guilty. They still have to provide a defense. Dunno and kinda fuzzy as to how that works. What I don't understand is why he didn't just convince her to plead out to a lesser charge concerning accidental death a long time ago unless there really is something else. Someone else (on here, I think) mentioned the lip reader's saying something about Casey telling one of the attorneys that her mother was lying in her testimony to protect George. (Not an exact quote, but that was the gist of the post.) Found it...see Freeda's post, it's #65 on here.

Regardless of how this child died, I do think Casey is at the very core of it. That being said, I think her whole family shares some portion of the why in some way.

Thank you, Dillywho, for your thoughts and other information in your post. There are so many theories, so many allegations, so many lies. Unfortunately, Caylee's little body could not yield any clues as to how she died unless her skull shows some kind of trauma. I think that, while we all have our own ideas as to what may have happened, we will have to wait to see the whole case before the truth will be known. And, even then I doubt that we will ever know the whole story. As far as the lipreading of Casey's responses during the trial, how do we know that any of what she is saying is the truth? This girl doesn't know what the truth is. Even if Casey takes the stand at some point, who is going to believe anything that she says? I have not seen one sign in this girl that she truly misses her daughter. Most of her conversations from jail ended up with the focus on HER, not any wailing or lamenting over the loss of her child. The experts on many of the news programs are calling her a psychopath. Perhaps she belongs in a mental institution for the rest of her life?

Robert, I agree. Even if Casey takes the stand, how could the Jury ever decide to believe a habitual liar? It is frightening to see Casey's total indifference to the loss of her daughter and the suffering of her parents.

I think you're right, Bare. So sad. So very unusual to see someone without remorse over the death of their child.

Is this going to be another surprise "O.J. verdict" ?

It very well could be

I know that it is the defenses job
 

to discredit all state witnesses but hasn't Baez stepped over the line!

Help Me Out Here
 

When Dr. Vass testified (all day!) today, why was he allowed to go on and on and on everytime he opened his mouth? Why was he not admonished to just answer the questions asked instead of all the rambling he did? Other witnesses have been very restricted in this respect. Baez did try to rein him in a couple of times by telling him to just answer "yes" or "no". Even then, he persisted. In his cross, Baez did score a point or two toward creating some doubt.

I also did not understand why he was not admonished for the extraneous remarks and laughing about "almost jumping backwards" when asked about the smell when he opened the can. By not just saying that there was an overwhelming smell of what he knows or recognizes as human decomposition, it came across as very prejudicial antics. Also by being so deeply technical, he could well have cost the prosecution some points just by wearing out the jury.

Jumping ahead, wouldn't it be more prudent for the state to take the death penalty off the table since it will be an automatic appeal? That is already a given. Right now, the prosecution are working their tails off to ward off an appeal and the defense are working theirs off building grounds for one. With appeals, this could go on forever.

I actually thought Dr. Vass did a pretty good job today. I think his nervousness showed when he made a few extraneous remarks and laughed a few times which somehow seemed imappropriate because of the seriousness of the charges. Still, the man is the Director of the Body Farm, and I think he came across as a credible professional. I think Baez had his best day yet, but that isn't saying much. For the most part, I think that Baez is out of his depth. But he did manage to make a few good points today and cast a little doubt. I think that overall the day definitely went to the Prosecution. I noticed that Baez's objections were overruled quite often by the Judge. (I think that the Judge is doing an excellent job). Apparently they found a syringe in the trunk that we haven't heard about yet. It's a slow and tedious process to build a case on this type of evidence.

The interesting part will be to see if the Defence changes their story. I never thought I'd feel sorry for Casey's parents, but I do. I think that Casey has made up lie after lie to save her skin and thrown her dad under the bus in the process. Unbelievable. I still think that Casey is a demented woman and her daughter was just the sweetest little girl. It breaks my heart everytime I see her pictures, but I can't stop watching.

Is this being televised all over the u.s.?

Here is a pretty good definition of a narcissistic pathological liar (ignore the reference to politics).

http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2009/05...lying-and.html

From my observations of the trial, I do feel this is what Casey Anthony suffers from. However, this does not lessen what has happened to her daughter. First degree murder, in my opinion, should not even be a consideration. Aggravated manslaugter does sound plausible.

It's very sad that someone in her family didn't recognize Casey's behaviorial disorder before any possibility of escalation to a child's death occurred.... very sad.

You know I have thought about that too, and I think Casey is quite bright, even if she didn't finish high school, and she is able to read people and manipulate them and has been able to do that for a long time. People who have mental disorders or personality dysfunctions such as these are not easy to spot, even by educators or their family. Think of Ted Bundy. I am sure her family was panicking about her lying and stealing money from close friends and family, but probably did not see that she was capable of killing her daughter. It isn't as if she was seeing things or breaking into peoples houses and I am sure that her stories were that she was borrowing the money or some such evasive foolishness. I found it hard to keep focused when she was giving the detectives the run around. Imagine if it is your child, who you WANT to believe.

I think George and Cindy could not believe that this really BAD person was raised just like her brother with quite different results.

It is really blowing holes in how I can relate this to ANYTHING. She simply does not care about anyone but herself.

No

I am in Missouri and it is being televised here on TRU tv which was formerly Court TV. I presume anyone that gets TRU tv on cable or satellite would get the same feed.

We have direct TV and we get it on TRU also, until 3:00, and then it is on HLN. (sister stations)

Well were in the forensic stage of this trial and currently hearing testimony from an Orange county olice officer who is atached to the K-9 unit. He is testifying about a dog trained to uncover cadvers............I am watching this on Eyewitness news (9) for Comcast HD its channel 431. Excellent analysis from an experienced Judge (Bill Schafer) .

Mention was made that testimony will be coming forth that the duct tape over Caylee's mouth was placed there while she was still alive. This observation is based on the position of the mandible. God we really don't want to believe that do we?

The jury is back from lunch...catch you all later

Quite impressed with cadaver dog BUT
 

must tell you that our dachshund alerts us to road kill (mostly frogs that are mashed beyond recognition, and his alert sign, he rolls all over stinky smell...Thought I needed to lighten up this thread a little!:girlneener:

I know it's on TRU TV in MA which used to be CourtTV. I'm watching on 434 which is FOX.

I'm in Canada getting live trial coverage on television as well as via the Internet.

Some folks are upset because this trial has pre-emptied there shows. for me, anything that get The View moved to late night TV is cool.

Hijack, I apologize.
Rubicon, The View has been moved?

Thanks for the "lightening up"---think we all need it--especially those (me included) that feel the need to watch this as it unfolds---never thought I would be one of "those." We had a black lab mix that would find whatever was "stinky"---roll in it and then come home--his head held high---as though he was a returning warrior from a battle--and we would be happy to see him--- NOT--- Back to reality--my heart breaks for a life unlived---such a beautiful being--- we will never know what happened---only those that can tell us are Casey--and you know how to take what she says and little Caylee---who will never be able to tell us. I just hope she didn't leave this world thinking that the one who should have loved her the most--didn't!

There is a juror, number four, who did not want to be on the jury (who does??) and says she can't pass judgement on anyone, who seems to be on the side of the defense.

I just want justice for that child.

I think even the grandparents can see their daughter is guilty.

Not Yet
 

"I believe the prosecution's theory is that she used chloroform and duct tape to keep the child quiet so she could go out dancing and partying. I haven't followed the trial too closely, but early on with Cindy Anthony on the stand, the defense pointed out that Cindy received six phone calls at work from Casey on June 16th in a 15 minute period around 4pm.... something that was not normal for Casey to do. I have not heard any more about this, but if this is fact, in my opinion, this could be the timeframe when something happened to the child. This would put the timeframe of the "incident" way before dancing and partying at night."

I cut and pasted this from another thread on this same subject on TOTV (hope that's not illegal) and could explain why her cell phone pinged from the area of the house that afternoon. Maybe it was an accident and when she couldn't reach her mother, she totally panicked and the whole thing spiraled out of control. I, for one, don't think she's anywhere near all right which would explain her bizarre behavior since. If (and that's a big IF) this is what happened, it's kinda like a child that breaks something, hides it to cover up, and carries on as if it didn't happen, then becomes convinced over time that it really didn't happen. She initially said that she had been searching for Caylee herself, which we know now to be one of the many lies, because she didn't want to have to deal with her mother. Lee even testified that his mother had made threats to Casey about being an unfit mother, totally opposite to what Cindy said about her in her testimony.

I'm convinced that she is guilty of criminal behavior. I am not convinced any of that behavior is Murder One.

I really hope this trial will lead to some changes in FL law so that people can no longer be tried and convicted in the media. Evidence should be reserved for trial only. Only then do I think anyone can get anything that even resembles a fair trial.

Agree with you Dillywho.

All I can say at this point is it's confusing (and any confusion favors the defense). Casey's going to have to do alot of explaining plus produce supportive evidence, or draw upon evidence already produced which may be supportive; since I don't believe that any account she gives will be believed at face value. I think that the death was probably accidental (though probably still criminal in nature, ie, reckless homicide, etc), and then was made to look like an abduction/murder by the (nonexistent, also fabricated) nanny, as a coverup, to try to avoid any possible prosecution. When we hear the testimony about the duct tape and the remains, that might be key to deciding accident versus premeditated. She apparently poorly disposed of the body (certainly I think she incorrectly thought that however she had disposed of it, it would never be found - what a shock this must have been for her!) and hoped it would become an unsolved missing child case. I think she must have kept the remains in her trunk for days trying to figure out what to do.

guilty of what? If this is the best case that the prosecution has I think they should all be fired.

In my opinion they have not presented any evidence of a murder.

C

Guilty of what? She now admits that she lied to everyone concerned, including the police about what happened. Guilty of fabricating a story about a kidnapping so that police would use their resources to search for a non existent person. Guilty of either murdering her daughter, or covering up an accidental death. Guilty of driving around for days with the decaying body of her daughter in the trunk while she decided where to dump her.

it looks to me that folks on TOTV have pretty much found her guilty using the media which is all they have for their info! one should remember that things are not always as they appear. i think before making condemnations we should wait and see what the evidence shows. the defense hasnt even been on yet!

Are we watching the same trial?

No evidence of murder?

Does anyone think that Caylee put the tape over her mouth?

That darling child robbed of her life.
 

The testimony today was grueling. I cannot think of a greater hell than to listen to minute details of a corpse that is your baby and to know you killed her. Casey Anthony became sick. I was sick at heart and couldn't watch it for very long.

In searching the web, I came up with this site that discusses sociopathy in children. I wonder if Casey had these behaviors....

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_there_...ng_a_sociopath

Thank You, Gracie
 

What an excellent read. That's very enlightening and seems as if it could possibly fit in this instance. It could explain a lot. Maybe some of this will come out when the defense takes their turn.

The whole situation is so sad; the death of a precious child and the total destruction of an entire family. What is sad as well, are all the hateful remarks and screams of guilty before all is said and done. How can others be so cruel based only on all the media hype? I just hope those people never have the opportunity to serve on a jury.

And how about this one GG? Lot's of 'Yups' in there.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

She lied. Covering up an accidental death? Could be. Murder in the 1st? I said that they have presented nothing to prove this. It is what they charged. Are they wasting our money to advance their carrers? I think we should expect more.

C

it may be impossible to prove whether the tape was placed over her mouth pre-or postmortem.

C

When they strap her down on the table I would like to know that she is guilty of murder, not that she is on the table because she is despicable and hated.

Is that too much to expect?

C

I don't envy the jurors...
 

Only served on a jury once about 20 years ago, and it was a civil trial, but it did involve an accidental death. I still wonder occasionally what happened to the family of the man who died.

I can't imagine being a juror in this trial or any trial involving the death of a child. I think of the little girl who was about 5 years old who disappeared in from her home in FL maybe 18 months ago (I don't believe she had the most stable home life according to the news reports). I didn't hear if she was ever found.

Watching this trial has been truly addictive for me. It's going to be interesting to see how Casey's attorney, Jose Baez, moves forward when he starts presenting his case.

I was so baffled by Baez's opening statement claiming Caylee died by drowning and that Casey's father was complicit not only in the cover-up, but that he both verbally and sexually abused Casey.

I can't recall a more addictive case to watch since the OJ case. In this case, however, I hope that justice is served.