You can guarantee nothing. We certainly are not wealthy but opted to pay almost $1,500. more for flooring in our home to keep those wonderful facilities in neighboring state, Dalton, GA alive and running. Their product is excellent and when shopping anytime we make an effort to avoid “Made in China” products. I have a feeling those espousing Chinese goods have some Chinese stock in their funds or portfolios.

Say reason you point finger at the gun and not the killer.

I think that most if not all of us think that because China hates the US, that the act was deliberate.

COME ON! Do you actually believe it was an act of God? So widespread

They should love us, they steal, lie, cheat, and our government even hands out money to them in aid thinking it will make difference

Ohiobuckeye
 

Well I think we have to tread lightly when we point fingers. The WHO is suppose to protect the world, not keep secrets for another country & protect them, even if it is the U.S., China or any other country! Also why does the U.S. pay 400 million into the WHO, for what & China 30 million? If that's true what our govt. tells us. We should of been given a heads up on this virus & if it was us that cause the virus, other countries should of been warned. Probably won't know the real reason because the govt. have a lot of secrets that they don't tell us.

I don't know how quickly information got from Wuhan to whomever makes the decisions. What has been reported is that a few people were seriously ill in Wuhan with something that a small group of doctors thought was new and contagious. They didn't know what it was, but clearly they were right. How long did China delay?

There are no dates earlier than Dec 30 that I can find for a definitive diagnosis of a SARS like virus. This is HERE in a Wikipedia page on the doctor who sent reports out when he saw the lab report and was reprimanded by the government, and later died of COVID. Dr Li issued his warning not to the government but to other doctors to wear PPE as he was aware of 7 cases.

On Jan 5, less than one week later, the WHO released its initial statement on the still un-identified virus.

Does that sound like a major delay? How long did it take our government to react to HIV/AIDS? To blame the Chinese for not shutting everything down because of a few deaths in a single city is a wonderful example of 20/20 hindsight. How long did it take the US to shut down anything, already knowing what was coming, that it was deadly and untreatable? How hard did people here in The Villages fight against closing swimming pools and pickleball courts, because everything seemed fine.

Some has posted here as evidence of the Great Chinese Conspiracy that they didn't ask for us to send our CDC to help. I don't recall our country asking for outside help with our health care problems. China, believe it or not, actually has a lot of bright scientists and doctors and their own CDC which managed to produce test kits that actually worked unlike ours.

We know what COVID is whereas China did not at the end of Dec and early Jan. Even knowing how easily it spreads and how deadly it can be, and with 100's and 1000's of known cases, what is our leadership most worried about now? Why the need to open up our economy. This was best expressed by a few people who are shall I gently say, to the right of the midline...
Dr Oz, regular contributor on one highly watched network, who opined that a 2 to 3 % death rate was preferable to keeping schools closed. And the Lt. Gov of Texas who said grandparents are willing to die if that is what is needed to save the economy, and then doubled down on that message more this week on Fox:

So if I'm understanding the anti-China argument...because they were worried about their economy they failed to lock down after a few cases and before they'd identified an organism BUT per the GOP person who is a apparently thoughtful enough to be a regular FOX guest, Texas should not have been locked down because the economy is more important than lives, especially old people.

My neck is sore from the whiplash.

What should China have done sooner? I doubt our country would have responded any more quickly had it begun here.

We are all one world. Hate and ignorance will get you nowhere.

To your excellent point, we have an ample supply (unfortunately) of people who are either blissfully naïve to the CCP threat or, worse, criminally complicit and therefore literally treasonous. For example, with respect to the latter, back in late January just as the virus pandemic was getting underway :

"The Department of Justice announced today that the Chair of Harvard University’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department and two Chinese nationals have been charged in connection with aiding the People’s Republic of China.

Dr. Charles Lieber, 60, Chair of the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Harvard University, was arrested this morning and charged by criminal complaint with one count of making a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement. Lieber will appear this afternoon before Magistrate Judge Marianne B. Bowler in federal court in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yanqing Ye, 29, a Chinese national, was charged in an indictment today with one count each of visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy. Ye is currently in China.

Zaosong Zheng, 30, a Chinese national, was arrested on Dec. 10, 2019, at Boston’s Logan International Airport and charged by criminal complaint with attempting to smuggle 21 vials of biological research to China. On Jan. 21, 2020, Zheng was indicted on one count of smuggling goods from the United States and one count of making false, fictitious or fraudulent statements. He has been detained since Dec. 30, 2019 ... " :shocked:

For those who don't understand how this works, the CCP is calling the shots here, not the Chinese people per se. It's one of numerous examples I could cite, with sources, wherein the CCP is at war with America but some of us still don't get it. Fortunately, more people are waking up to what should be obvious by now.

Harvard University Professor and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases | OPA | Department of Justice


...

Ignorance of the nature of CCP is especially toxic.

Well said. Thank you.

The very first sentence of the original post by JGVillages


It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world.

thus for my posts
- Remember Nov 3 was your interpretation of a voting for one position
- No more political than the entire thread
- Never communicated my own political persuasions if any
- Offered no personal position if I agreed or not that China should be punished

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

I agree
 

I shop online for clothes- I have to contact seller or boutique to find out where prod is made. Many times it says shipped from US or something similar.china has taken so much from US- I will do my part from here on in.

Your post is an excellent example of the CCP Denial Syndrome, coupled with a touch of mea culpa.

i tend to agree with you. we know there is a lab located in china that works with viruses, & the way things look, it was accidentally released. it festered round china, then moved to italy, iran, spain, etc before it got to us in full force. if china wanted it to hit just us, i'd think they'd find a better way to do it. as for products made in china; i've stopped buying them long ago, esp anything pet-food related

Just trying to follow your logic...

China, in an unprecedented move in world history, completely quarantined some 60+ MILLION of its citizens, but had NO IDEA of "what was coming or how bad it could be"? Why the quarantine then? Isn't it more likely they knew they were dealing with a novel virus that transmitted human to human, thus the imposition of the quarantine? It is my understanding they denied its human to human transmission for another approximately three weeks.

Let's not overlook or dismiss that the quarantine DID NOT include international air travel to other countries. If they were alarmed enough to quarantine 60+ million domestically, why allow the virus to spread to the rest of the world via air travel? Obviously this was a CHOICE by the CCP not to shutdown international air travel concurrent with the domestic quarantine. Why did they make that CHOICE?

If I cannot find WHERE the company is located or where they are actually shipping from, I don't order the product. I'm better off without it! Learned the hard way...

My son took his family to Hawaii on spring break. He and his daughter got really sick and had to return home. He is a doctor but the Corona thing had not been published yet. Yesterday he said he wonders if he and Little Keva didn't have the corona virus.

You are spectacularly misinformed.

December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.”

December 25: Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine

December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

December 31: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

January 3: The Chinese government continued efforts to suppress all information about the virus: “China’s National Health Commission, the nation’s top health authority, ordered institutions not to publish any information related to the unknown disease, and ordered labs to transfer any samples they had to designated testing institutions, or to destroy them."

January 5: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission put out a statement with updated numbers of cases but repeated, “preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

January 21 Chinese officials finally acknowledge human to human transmission of the virus.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Tariffs are paid by consumers, not China and not the importer. If you have not figured this out, then go take Econ 101.

There is a way to look at the bar code on items to see where they come from. You may have to Google it.

Looking to blame someone?
 

Missouri is trying to do that, but is likely to have the case tossed out. Nations have sovereign immunity against such suits, according to the reports I have been reading.

Pandemics have happened before and will happen again. The problems we are facing are a direct result of our Own failure as nation to properly prepare for the inevitable pandemic. It is not the failure of any one politician or political party. There is more than enough blame for everyone at all levels of government for generations gone by. Since pandemics occur infrequently, we collectively chose to ignore the known risk. We are now paying the price for our collective failures to prepare.

Mot a natural occurance
 

Their attempted cover-up and deceit to the rest of the world was not a natural occurrence.

Buying cheap imported goods may benefit the consumer short term but when their job goes overseas not in the long term.

I googled it. Turns out there is an urban legend that you can look at the bar code to see where they come from, the the legend is not based on fact. The UPC code does not provide the consumer with any verification of origin.

Where is there verification of deceit and cover-up? I followed the news of this from the beginning when people were beginning to die in Wuhan and the doctors being alarmed about it. This is an awful thing to believe unsubstantiated rumors. This is a side of the human condition I had not seen before. This is the reasons wars begin. People leaping to hate without evidence of wrong doing.

I have no stocks whatsoever, all assets are in cash, so that doesn't fly.
As for your efforts to buy American only, I salute you.
However the majority of USA will continue to buy from abroad unless corporate America, Wall Street, and the stockholders agree to take a heavy kick in their wallets, to bring manufacturing back to USA.
You do not need to be a genius to work out that the average consumer will continue to buy cheaper products from abroad, wherever they are manufactured
Many do not have the income to be as noble as yourself.

see post #101

Quote:
Originally Posted by B767drvr View Post
Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."
Quote:
Reported on Fox News . . . sources will often speak anonymously




So sayeth the person who watches MSNBC 24x7 ?:MOJE_whot:

I actually agree with the gist of your post ... no one is ever fully prepared and plenty of bipartisan blame to go around. Human nature is ... don't really worry about it until the s*** hits the fan so to speak. Pandemics have indeed happened before, and will again.

The one key difference is, as far as can tell, this is the first one that's ever traced back to a bioweapons lab.


...

I think you make a good point. Corporate America and especilaly Wall St has to get off their China addiction. We need to suck it up and figure out a way to do this fairly such that the middle class benefits but ... and this is easier said than done ... we need to start moving our most important supply chains out of China.

The longer we wait, the harder it gets and it's already exceedingly difficult to do.

...

If one seeks, they will find. (in both this thread and the Chinese intel thread)

Bar Codes 00-08 US and Canada. 30-37 France, 40-44 Germany, 471 Taiwan, 49 Japan, 50 UK.
690-692 CHINA

I don't see any proof. I have been drilled in my life to consider the source. I think it is very wise to watch all three major networks for HARD NEWS not opinions, and buddy, that takes patience. Although I do not always agree with the OPINIONS posted, I think the following sources are the most dependable as far as fact checking; The New York Times, The Washington Post, The AP Wire, The Guardian, and Reuters.

I have noticed that all three major networks have shown a slight change toward moderation since the beginning of March of this year. I witnessed Drew Pinsky on Fox tell us it was all a huge hoax in early Marchand he has since publicly apologized and most likely won't work in that capacity again. This Covid-19 epidemic was not up to the skill level of the television network doctors we have listened to for the past 10-15 years, simply because no one knows with authority what is going to happen next. There are too many unanswered questions that need to be carefully analyzed after we can all run some hard numbers AFTER we get more hard data and know who we can trust to tell us the truth. I know myself personally has changed a lot in my political opinions as I watch both sides babble on and play politics.

I have explained it to you in previous posts, as have others. I earlier made a comment about speaking to an inanimate object but that was pulled so I'm trying to be more judicious.

I will give you credit though ... you've identified the source of your inability to comprende the topic.

Do you really think the prestige media reports are unbiased, totally fair, and have no skin in the game? Do you think that they are split in their political preferences or more like 90-10 against you know who.

You've got to be kidding but I know you're not.

Look at what you said here:

"This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. …China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties."

Poor China, I feel so bad for them. We are so mean to them, aren’t we?

However, I actually agree with you about both parties being to blame, but in the context of domestic donkeys and elephants. There are examples of POTUS’s early comments along with the Speakers public denial in Chinatown SF of any virus problem in late Feb. There are also many examples of prestige media saying it was a non-problem an no worries, mixed with condemnations of supposed xenophobia, racism and the usual verbal clubs.

Human nature being what it is, very few of us would have consented to a lockdown much sooner than it occurred. It’s also inevitable this will become politicized and we’ll each be convinced the other side are wacko extremists etc., and vote accordingly in November.

For the record, no one has evidence that the CCP deliberately unleashed the Wuhan virus as a weapon but there is evidence it likely came out of the CCP’s bioweapons lab in some form or fashion. The IC is analyzing it … maybe we’ll hear something publicly at some point, and maybe not. That could have a certain pucker factor associated with it, depending on what they find, but especially if they conclude the virus was, in effect, a biological 9/11.

The real issue is what should we be doing to counter the threat posed by the CCP to our country. That’s a more fruitful area for discussion and education IMO. You have excellent analytical skills. You could put them to use, for example, by providing a constructive critique of this video, which I posted earlier, but repeat here for convenience. I’m sure many would be interested to read your detailed analysis of what the Brigadier General says herein. (note: this interview occurred before the virus issue emerged)

Is the US-China Trade War a Cold War? (w/ Kyle Bass and Gen. Robert Spalding) - YouTube

...

If you want to be knowledgeable as to what, where and why this virus began - read this,
then open the website shown below and read it all. It is long but it should be read in its entirety.
You may need to cut and paste to read, it is worth the effort.

ALCON,
Sent to me by my USSOCOM compatriots with their connections to the Pentagon and D.C. strategic advisory groups.

In condensed form synopsis---It's a massive rally speech by a Top Level Chinese General (similar to our Joint Chief of Staff level)
talking about the mistakes Germany and Japan made in WW2, against America. ....and how China will not make those mistakes.
It talks about Chinese people being the superior race on the globe, and the hatred they have of America, with its expansive living areas, blue skies and puffy-white-clouds. China is over-crowded and polluted, and they hate the fact that we're not. Talks about how they are absolutely "Using" America to get the technology secrets they want (by spying / theft) and bolster their position globally. He uses analogies to describe the unavoidable conflict of China vs. America = two goliaths on a small, narrow country road--Only "One" Can Pass. He talks about NOT using nuclear weapons, because that would be a "No-Win" scenario for everyone. Then, about 3/4 ths. into the speech, near the bottom, he flat out describes China's plan to use a "stealthy" bio-weapon to paralyze the globe, and wipe out the lives and economy of America and any firm allies we have.

And so, here we are.......COVID-19. It goes straight for your lungs and tries to "drown you" in fluid. It's not, THE FLU. It mutates and changes on its own.

The Secret Speech of General Chi Haotian – J.R. Nyquist

This was NOT an accident of nature, this was deliberate.

Totally agree
 

Well said and in my opinion, spot on.

China does not think in the same terms as us and whilst I have not issue with the Chinese people, I have major issues with the Chinese Government, they don’t bother how many deaths occur, either in their country nor any others as long as they end up as the top dog.

There MUST be a very extensive and world wide crackdown on buying goods from China and bringing manufacturing back into the West 👍

Yes many people want and can only afford the cheapest products, but buying Chinese goods to save a few dollars is very very short sighted.