Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2145398)

The rate of change is drastically different????? Compared to WHAT?????

Compared to the last 150 years out of the last 4 million??? Yeah, right, that's meaningful :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Man has control over the rate of change???? Do we???? How do we know since we don't even know what is causing "change" (if there is any). And how would we change the climate????? Alter Earth's axis or our orbit around the sun???? Which is what you would have to do since they are the causes of climate change. All this fossil fuel nonsense is just babbling unless and until we have real data for a long enough period of time. Of course, that's thousands of years. Meanwhile, don't worry about the sky falling

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2145431)

I would say that you can pay Mother Nature today or pay much more tomorrow. While I don't expect US net zero emissions by 2050 I DO expect that intelligent human beings will look at changes like the dying of reef coral and the rapid animal species extinction and move in the DIRECTION of zero emissions. There are some possible areas of improvement that can take place without undue cost or lifestyle changes for US Americans. In terms of electric vehicles, there have been recent discoveries of lithium in mining areas of Alaska. We may not be dependent on China for lithium batteries. The newest design of nuclear power generators has great improvements in safety and safe spent fuel disposal. The US can wean itself SLOWLY away from the internal combustion engine. California has plans for that and Finland is going to require 100% of all new car sales to be electric in one or two years. The Villages could make a similar requirement for golf carts in the future and add charging stations. It's all a matter of human willpower and a willingness to change. The technology IS CERTAINLY there. It is fixed-in-place mindsets that hold back innovation and progress, not science and technology. The younger 50 and 55-year-old Villagers arriving now may be more concerned about moving toward net zero emissions and be more flexible about the topic of climate change.

As to "the one-quarter of all tax revenues in 2020"..........let me turn that around........in order to get anything worthwhile accomplished in a country as BIG as the US, you need Federal and State Government support and DIRECTION leading to BIG ideas and projects - for example, the space program of the 1960s. It might be prudent at this juncture in history to raise the Corporate tax rate a SMALL amount in order to balance the budget and allow the US government to move more aggressively toward solving the problem of environmental degradation being caused by climate change.

Imagine the incredible costs of not doing anything. We will pay dearly if the oceans rise enough to threaten the FUNCTION of the Eastern Naval bases - as is predicted by 2050. What would be the cost of losing Miami to a warming ocean and stronger hurricanes? Most scientists say that this IS happening. A small % of scientists say that it is not. Why take that chance? Simple lifestyle changes can GUARANTEE that it doesn't happen and as a fringe benefit, US air and water quality will increase. And there will be increased jobs in environmental science and engineering. It is a win-win for everyone and Mother Nature can turn her frown into a smile!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2145431)

I would say that you can pay Mother Nature today or pay much more tomorrow. While I don't expect US net zero emissions by 2050 I DO expect that intelligent human beings will look at changes like the dying of reef coral and the rapid animal species extinction and move in the DIRECTION of zero emissions. There are some possible areas of improvement that can take place without undue cost or lifestyle changes for US Americans. In terms of electric vehicles, there have been recent discoveries of lithium in mining areas of Alaska. We may not be dependent on China for lithium batteries. The newest design of nuclear power generators has great improvements in safety and safe spent fuel disposal. The US can wean itself SLOWLY away from the internal combustion engine. California has plans for that and Finland is going to require 100% of all new car sales to be electric in one or two years. The Villages could make a similar requirement for golf carts in the future and add charging stations. It's all a matter of human willpower and a willingness to change. The technology IS CERTAINLY there. It is fixed-in-place mindsets that hold back innovation and progress, not science and technology. The younger 50 and 55-year-old Villagers arriving now may be more concerned about moving toward net zero emissions and be more flexible about the topic of climate change.

As to "the one-quarter of all tax revenues in 2020"..........let me turn that around........in order to get anything worthwhile accomplished in a country as BIG as the US, you need Federal and State Government support and DIRECTION leading to BIG ideas and projects - for example, the space program of the 1960s. It might be prudent at this juncture in history to raise the Corporate tax rate a SMALL amount in order to balance the budget and allow the US government to move more aggressively toward solving the problem of environmental degradation being caused by climate change.

Imagine the incredible costs of not doing anything. We will pay dearly if the oceans rise enough to threaten the FUNCTION of the Eastern Naval bases - as is predicted by 2050. What would be the cost of losing Miami to a warming ocean and stronger hurricanes? Most scientists say that this IS happening. A small % of scientists say that it is not. Why take that chance? Simple lifestyle changes can GUARANTEE that it doesn't happen and as a fringe benefit, US air and water quality will increase. And there will be increased jobs in environmental science and engineering. It is a win-win for everyone and Mother Nature can turn her frown into a smile!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Mortal1 (Post 2145546)

it's called "science" and while some folks prefer their version of science which includes humans able to effect the earths natural changes...well they are literally ****ing into the wind of reality.

Think of one volcano exploding...ie: mt. St. Helens. it puts more toxic, world climate changing crap into the atmosphere than 100 years of mans pollution.

So please...if you need to blame mankind for anything then blame it on making you able to live as long and well as you do. Just think that 100 years ago old age was in your 50's/60's. So if most of us would be dead, or near dead, by now fewer people, less pollution.

Get over it.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2145558)

Finland has subsidized the purchase of new EVs since 2018 by 2,000 Euros per car. They even have E-snowmobiles. Norway has set a goal that 100% of new cars sold should be zero emission (electric or hydrogen) by 2025. They even have a great E-motorcycle product. Germany is also at the top end of countries with EVs per capita. Even China is double the per capita ownership of EVs as the US.

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2145528)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "sun spots" or "solar flares"...

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2145619)

How are electric cars going to stop the Climate from Changing? They may/MAY assist in a cleaner air by eliminating SOME pollution, but we will still be pumping oil, since many of our products are created using oil. Is mining lithium good for our environment? When exposed to water, I know that lithium creates hydrogen gas, which is very volatile/combustible. Personally, I like my lithium battery powered hand tools, BUT I also know that they are not as powerful as my old fossil fuel powered tools. Just a few observations. I have not been convinced that man is powerful enough or god like that we can change the climate. If so, can someone raise the temps during the winter up in the mountains up North so that I can enjoy a warmer mountain climate? I prefer the mountains over the flat Florida landscape, but it gets way too chilly up North in the mountains.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2145764)

Summary........the increasing popularity and worldwide use of electric vehicles (EV) will NOT stop Climate Change instantaneously, but are a long-term solution to the problem. And they are a solution that is available and affordable to each citizen in the 1st world. Over time, they will become more affordable and more attractive to the average citizen. As such, they become a GIFT to succeeding generations !

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2144949)

And there it is! Finally, the climate change advocates have come to call those of us with a knowledge of paleoclimatology and some common sense "selfish". This must be the same crew that called people who didn't wear a mask when driving their car alone "selfish"

Manipulate/purposely obfuscate???? That 90% number has been debunked multiple times. And isn't it the climatologists who jump on the bandwagon to obtain grant money the ones who are "selfish"?

"Try to slow down the adverse effects"?---to the tune of bankrupting the world???? That would lead to consequences far worse than driving your SUV.

And anyone who thinks the peak of this cyclical warming is any closer than 15-25,000 years away----like the 12 years that was previously stated or even within the lifetimes of our grandchildren, well...........I can't write it.

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 2145776)

LOL

Instead of spending the time to refute almost every single one of your sentences, which fit one of the below categories, I'll just repeat from my earlier post - that you have so aptly shown to be correct.

"...who refuse to believe/try to manipulate/purposely obfuscate the science..."


My favorite part though, is the astounding hubris exhibited in your statement..."call those of us with a knowledge of paleoclimatology and some common sense "selfish"."


I certainly don't claim to always be correct, but I am always on guard for those who are loquacious (as if quantity somehow equates to proof/correctness), have the need to be the smartest in the room and anything said in disagreement - must be instantly discounted. Have a great day.