EVs are still a "novelty." Hmmm, EVs were available in the late 1800's and were a "novelty" then and still are. I keep hearing how great they are, but they still cannot compare to fossil fuel powered vehicles......period. When someone attempts to compare the two, the folks pro-EV have to make excuses. Always excuses but eventually have to admit that they have their flaws. Should EVs be "mandated" by the federal government? They aren't ready yet.
ICEs are still better than or equal to EVs in almost every way. If the EVs were so great then logical citizens would jump on the opportunity to own one.
EVs are more expensive, even with tax credit from the Feds. Middle to lower level earners can't really consider the expense.
EVs are NOT long range vehicles.
EVs take take a minimum of 20 minutes (usually hours) to refuel. Not good for long commuting or trips where time is a premium.
EVs are not conducive to efficient operation in harsh climates.

ICE vehicles are less expensive
ICE vehicles are preferable for long commutes
ICE vehicles can be refueled in five or ten minutes. Maybe fifteen if waiting in line. EVs a minimum of 20 mins and at least 20 mins added for every vehicle in line ahead of it.
ICE vehicles work better in harsh weather.
ICE vehicles can be refueled on the road and do not need to be towed when they run out of energy/fuel.
ICE vehicles have more fuel options; gasoline, diesel, natural gas, hydrogen, alcohol derivatives, recycled cooking oil, etc.
EVs are being FORCED on us. Why? Because of the green agenda. EVs don't pollute the air, ICE vehicles do. So do cows, but we still raise them for consumption. So does mankind but we don't eliminate humans.
I could live with owning an EV in the Villages, but some folks have to work for a living. If I was still employed, an EV would be at the bottom of my list of transportation methods. Thank goodness I am too old to be around long enough for an EV to be forced on me. To me, an EV is like owning a motorcycle, boat or a horse. Just a "novelty" for recreation.
But, to keep this related to the OP/subject, if a rental company tried to pawn an EV on me when I needed a reliable mode of transportation, I would have sought out a different rental agency.

EVs are hardly a novelty. The best selling car in the world, YTD, is a Tesla Model Y. Nobody is forcing an EV on you. ICE cars will still be around for probably the next 20-30 years, or more. You might not find a lot of choices in new ICE cars in 10-15 years or so but the used market will still be there. Buy what you want. There is no need to try to convince others what to do or try to explain your actions.

Agree

I would be really ****ed if the rental company tried to push an EV on me. Please tell us all what rental company that was so we can all AVOID them! Thanks

It doesn't get much attention, but the House of Representatives will most likely be voting this week (Tuesday, probably) on the Choice in Automobile Retail Sales (CARS) act, which of passed would disallow pending federal regulations targeting gas-powered vehicles and well as prohibiting future EV mandates.

The support for this appears pretty broad. The Independent Women's Voice website had some interesting numbers on this: "Six in 10 Americans say the price tag of electric vehicles (EVs) is too high. Polling data suggests the majority of Americans won’t ever buy EVs due to their vast shortcomings. As a result, EV adoption rates remain low. In 2022, EVs accounted for just 5.8% of all the 13.8 million new vehicles sold in the U.S. This is attributed to a limited network of EV charging stations, fueling and charging inefficiencies, and the forced nature of EV adoption that isn’t reflective of market demand." They are certainly alone in this.

Should be interesting. Will saner heads prevail?

I'll keep my hybrid Toyota with a range of 550 miles. If you gave me an EV I would sell it tomorrow.

Ill keep my plug in hybrid toyota. My last tank gave me 1,763 miles. If you gave me a hybrid i would sell it today for a plug in hybrid.

I loved my Prius!

Most of your points show your bias and are easily debated. Since those debates have already covered pages in other threads, I won't rehash them here.

On the few points above:

EVs are very much ready today as shown by the number of happy owners driving them today.

Logical citizens will utilize EVs where they make sense. Other posters in this thread have explained why an EV is the perfect choice for their needs. A PHEV would be ideal for my next vehicle and a hybrid was ideal for my previous vehicle. But yes, for those who need/choose to travel long distances, electric-only vehicles are not the best choice.

EVs are not more expensive when comparing apples to apples. Yes, the Tesla is more expensive than a Toyota Corolla but the Tesla is a more luxurious vehicle than the Corolla. Compare the Tesla with a BMW and the price difference goes away. Add in real-world maintenance costs and the EV might even be less expensive than the ICE vehicle. Middle lower earners cannot afford the Tesla but neither can they afford the BMW - apples to apples again.

EVs are likely to be the vehicle of the future. We may not be in the early-adopter stage now but we are not far from it. The gasoline infrastructure took decades to become what it is today, the EV infrastructure is expanding quickly. There may be reasons not to buy an EV today but those reasons may not hold up in the near future.

Accordint to Statista the best selling car in the world was a Toyota Corolla, followed by the RAV4, Tesla Model Y is in the top 10, but not the best selling car in the world, or just the USA. (In the USA the top sellers are pickup trucks, the Ford F series & the Chevy Silverado, but just looking at cars, that would be Toyota again; The RAV4, Camry, & Honda CRV.)

Best-selling car models worldwide 2022 | Statista.

Access to this page has been denied

For my second link it says Access denied, but clicking on the link works.

That's a useless stat...

Yes, when compared to the Toyota Corolla, they might sell more Tesla Model Ys, but when you add in all of the other manufacturer's vehicles comparable to the Corolla, it isn't close... Even when you add in the other EVs comparable to the Model Y...

Excellent point.

EV vs ICE arguments aside, I will ask the question again.

tvmurray, Please tell me: WHICH RENTAL AGENCY FORCED YOU TO TAKE AN EV?

I REALLY want to avoid that company, since I will be renting a car this Christmas to drive back from Chicago!

No, it's not.

That's 2022. The link I posted was 2023 so far. First sentence in the article linked:
"For the first time ever, the best-selling car in the world is electric. As of this writing in July 2023, the Tesla Model Y has just edged out the Toyota Corolla for the top spot in new car sales worldwide."

Hertz at some places renting cars half charged, and no Tesla adapter. So you immediately have to look for charging station (CS). With tesla CSs out of equation for the inferior brands you now have mileage anxiety syndrome (MAS). Plus they are renting EVs to people with NO experience with EVs and in some cases that all they got to rent.

I bet it was hertz’s????

Too bad HDs don’t have the EV craze. I would enjoy not hearing all the noise:BigApplause::BigApplause:

It is interesting that when you go on car rental sites, the EV vehicles are renting at a MUCH MUCH lower daily rate compared to gas vehicle rentals. That is all you need to know.

They do, but I believe Harley-Davidson has spun off their electric motorcycles into a different company called LiveWire.

Tesla joins GM, Ford in slowing EV factory ramp as demand fears spread | Reuters

Why automakers are dialing back EV production goals - Marketplace

Car dealers say they can’t sell EVs, tell Biden to slow their rollout | Ars Technica

Access Denied

I recently rented a car and several of the car rental companies offered EVs, typically Kia Niro EVs, at lower cost than ICE cars. I found that interesting. I didn't opt for the EV over concerns about charging stations and what my recharging options would be. For example, do they include a cord with the car if you have access to a 120V outlet? There was a total lack of information on the webpages and I didn't want to waste my time calling. If Teslas were offered I may have gone that route because their navigation system will take you to the Tesla Superchargers.

Then refute it...

Actually, you made some strawman argument. YTD, the Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the world. Through Q2, it was the best selling car in the US (just edged out by RAV4 in the Q3 YTD numbers). Again, I was responding to the comment about EVs being a novelty. They aren't.

Well the new Prius plug hybrid gets 91 mpg, is that good enough?

If it has 4WD, good ground clearance, and can tow a heavy load it would be good enough.

I'm a biker and have ridden the LiveWire many times. At best its a novelty that will never appeal to the motorcycling community. Never.

We have a chrysler Pacifica hybrid and we LOVE it. Driving around town, which is what we mostly do, is well within the battery range of about 33 miles. Plug it in over night and you have another full range of 33 miles on battery. Range of about 550 miles on gas and battery. Batteries are warranted to last at least 10 years, but are expected to last the life of the vehicle. Works for us, it is a great compromise of battery and ICE. Plus, a full size mini van allows lots of passengers / cargo.

Like it or not EVs are going to take over.
Today’s investments in the EV world are slated to improving milage, charging speed, and access to charging stations. Musk just signed a contract for $100 million with BP to supply their stations with his chargers in the U.S., plus taxpayer dollars are being spent to place charging stations on our public roads. Once people get use to the convenance while on a highway just being able to pull into a rest stop and fill up while taking care of business or waking up in the morning with their cars fully charged at home the demand will start to surge again. And let’s take a look at the profits, EVs are much less expensive to produce then ICE vehicles. Between solar, wind and nuclear, electricity is also less expensive than producing and delivering fuel. Maybe because the last five years of my career was negotiating contracts, I see everything through the lens of dollars. But to bolster my position unless there is a request most all new homes are being built with electric heat, stoves and ovens. Why because it’s less expensive than running a second fuel sore. At the end of the day maybe not as fast as expected but EVs will dominate the market and the conversion will have nothing to do with climate change, just follow the money.

EV's are very popular in UK, and given the size of the country, quite practical.
We are never more than 70 miles from the sea, and one end to the other is just over 600 miles, which, with a bigger EV, is a one charge journey.
Plenty of public charging points.
Even our rural local supermarket has two, and they make no charge (yet!), and you very seldom see both points used at same time.
Personally I will never have one due to the exorbitant cost of purchase, plus wife and I travel a lot in UK and Europe, and could not be bothered with all the logistics of finding charging points.
It's horses for courses really.
If our world was solely TV I could see the point of one, but with the distances of city to city travel in US, I would never have anything but an ICE vehicle.
Just cannot understand the TOTV posters who are so opposed to EV's.
No one is forcing them to buy.
The majority will be long dead and gone, even if such a time comes.
Just stick with your ICE vehicle, and let those who want electric sort out any problems with them.

Sorry for monologue, but freezing and raining cats and dogs here at the moment, so a bit bored.
Probably do an essay on roundabouts tomorrow, or divulge the best cheesecake recipe in the world! :icon_wink:

I have no desire ever for an electric car. Most of the family I drive to visit have zero capability to charge a car. I don’t believe it’s better for our earth either.

This post sounds like a work of fiction.

It may be that electric vehicles have had their heyday snd reached the peak of their popularity. I read that slower demand has some Tesla investors concerned.

I have no interest in buying an EV, and for some reason I don’t fully trust them. But I have enjoyed riding in them a few times.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of ours out in California. Flew into San Francisco, was given an EV and couldn’t find any charging stations for his vehicle. Apparently, charging stations are not uniform. They’ve got to be specific to the vehicle manufacturer.

Car rental company
 

It was Dollar/Hertz Rental, but in their defense many other companies had a sign up that said no cars available. Also when I took it to another airport they exchanged with no questions after my story.

Susan if you're young enough you might have no choice ICE will become obsolete. Again, this has nothing to do with the environment. If it did there would be a more sustained effort for hydrogen vehicles. This all has to do with profits. This is a new market; global warming is just a cover story. If your concern is charging station, once the money starts rolling in, you'll be tripping over them, they will be everywhere.

In 2006, did a paper on EVs for my masters program. At that time it was projected that at most EVs would gain 25% of the market, but to do that oil would. Have to double in price.

Last time I looked the EV share of the market it was still less than 10%. When Henry Ford started mass production of automobiles, did the government mandate their use over horses? No, the market decided. If it weren’t for government mandates imposed on us, the market share for EVs would be even less.

A tank of hydrogen makes more sense than a 2000 lb battery that takes 8 hours to charge, but the only advantage to the environment would be that you wouldn't have to level mountains in China digging up lithium, cobalt and rare earths. Hydrogen would be a disaster for "Climate Change".

The primary source of Earth's greenhouse is WATER VAPOR, not CO2. CO2 is a trace gas, barely 0.04% of the atmosphere -- unlike Venus, which started the warming panic, where it is 98% .

In fact, if vehicles actually do contribute to Global Warming, it is undoubtedly because of the water vapor they emit -- for every carbon atom in a molecule of gasoline, there are 3 hydrogen atoms.

It means nothing that there are 350 stations, how many work with the Chevy? Probably a handful. Also, out of those listed, how many work? How many cars are using them? What converter do you need? I have friends that skipped buying an EV that wasn’t a Tesla because of the lack of stations.
We are light years away from having the infrastructure to handle EV’s