Well, ya know what they say about car rental companies ...

Remember when GM put Diesel engine’s in cars, That was another mistake.

An honest answer by an EV owner!

An EV used for short distances, say 100 miles/day, is an excellent idea. This is particularly so in an urban setting. The owner should have a garage where the EV can be charged overnight. An alternative would be an owner who has a sufficient number of charging stations at his/her place of work available for charging during the work day.

As for using an EV to travel for any distance, they are not, and never will be, practical. If you doubt this, read about the experiences of professional drivers in road tests of EV's in the automobile magazines. The true believers will tell you that in a short time there will be thousands of charging stations across the country. The fact is there can never be enough operable charging stations to service a number of EV's comparable to the number of IC's used in everyday travel.

One fact that believers never discuss is that charging stations are being concentrated in single locations, unlike gasoline stations. Automobile drivers do not all stop at single locations. IC drivers go varying distances before refueling. The result is that the number of IC's stopping to refuel are staggered over many miles and locations. By concentrating EV chargers in large numbers sufficient to fuel hundreds of thousand of EV's every day there will be massive traffic jams at the charging stations. I have had believers tell me, "Oh well, there will be stations placed every mile or so along the highways". Good luck with that! The "range anxiety" of finding an available charger will increase exponentially. Also, I can't imagine that many men, and fewer women, will be willing to trust their safety to sitting for 30 minutes alongside a highway to get a 50% charge allowing them to drive 100 miles and repeat the process.

People who do not regularly drive on our Interstate Highways have no concept of the staggering number of vehicles of all kinds using the roadways. There will never be an infrastructure sufficient to, conveniently, and, quickly, refuel the same number of EV's. I just read on Google that there were 290.8 million vehicles of all kinds registered in the US as of 2022. Anyone who believes these can be replaced by EV's and that a functional transportation system will exist, is living in a fantasy world.

My comments only address the feasibility of replacing the nation's fleet of IC's with EV's. The separate problem of providing enough electricity to fuel 290.8 million IV's is mind-boggling, particularly as the true believers are, likely, to be the same people who oppose nuclear power plants. Please don't tell me we can cover the deserts with wind towers and solar panels. That fight is already taking place between the true believers and the friends of the desert, a variant of the friends of the forest.

If you want a good laugh, search for a video of the EV's, lined up, hoping to charge their Tesla's, at the Madonna Inn, or any other charging station, on Interstate 5 in California at Thanksgiving or Christmas, to be able to make it to S.F. or L.A.

400% or more mark up it the American way.

It is NOT practical or possible to replace all ICE vehicles with E-vehicles instantly. It will take time. Both the US and Europe have made a good start. In Europe about 20% of all NEW vehicles are E-vehicles and in the US, it is about 8%. Electric vehicles have advantages of greater acceleration and increased reliability. As more people purchase E-vehicles, greater research will produce better batteries. E-vehicles are like newborn babies in their developmental history. ICE vehicles are like VERY old seniors. many more charging stations will appear in the next 2 years.
.........Even Electric Golf Carts have many advantages. Their lower center of gravity increases their acceleration and increases SAFETY from roll-overs.

Markets can't DECIDE everything because markets are just a small subset compared with the influence of the national government. Markets can't decide how BIG to make the CIA, but the US government can. Markets don't decide where large interstate highways go, gut government does. Markets don't decide when to start a WAR, governments do.
........The US government takes all factors into consideration such as limited amounts of fossil fuel, pollution from fossil fuel, health risks associated with fossil fuels, which countries are US enemies, increasing global temperatures due to fossil fuel - and then asks the question, "how to we decrease fossil fuel use". Then, US government may decide to stimulate the use and purchase of non-fossil fuel burning automobiles. Markets can't decide that, so government MUST!

As sales go up, fixed costs get covered, and price goes down.

As sales go up, the pool of remaining consumers who want one will quickly dry up.

I don't see CAFE regulations as terrible things. They help cut down on pollution, which helps older people to breathe better. They make countries that HATE the US like Russia, Iran, and others in the Middle East LESS rich. Decreasing pollution decreases Global Warming.

Repetition is designed to promote understanding. Understanding.

When little Johnny's parents get an E-vehicle, little Johnny's friends' parents will also want an E-vehicle.

Look the government no matter who has their hands on the wheel can barely control anything. You believe the government can force the auto industry to manufacture electric cars, that is comical. Politicians put standards in place because of the pressure they receive from their constituents.

There used to be an old saying which a version was attributed to Plato in 380 BC, which became “Necessity is the mother of invention”. In today’s world that is no longer the case. If there is no profit at the end of the tunnel whatever the necessity is will not be met.

Look Ford built the Edsel in 1957 it lasted 3 years before it came off the market. The demise was due to market pressure, why because it was a bomb nobody wanted it. A substantial number of people want electric cars and what is even more important is a large amount of the American investor are willing to invest in stocks that support that goal. Do you think all these people are worried about the planet or that the government is going to kidnap their children. No, they believe that there is an alternative to ICE and they believe EVs are the answer. They are putting their hard earn money on the table because they believe it’s a winner. If there is any pressure companies will bend to is the investor, no investors no company.

"Increased acceleration"? Sounds dangerous... Will the police be handing out tickets?

Oh, and my memory must be failing... What type of EV do you drive?

Only if they're lemmings...

I'll buy an EV when it's the best choice FOR ME, not when a neighbor buys one...

Only simple minded people don't think for themselves...

Please explain why auto makers are now complaining than no one is buying their EVs and that the stock on hand is languishing?

Could it be due to "market pressure"?

The facts don't agree with your reasoning nor conclusion, but you're surely entitled to your opinion.

No, the EV market is in its infancy. You would have to be blind not to see the issues, but there is lots of money being invested to fix those kinks. This is not a mountain it is a minor hump, and the investments will bring EVs to its maturity. Tesla stock is not languishing and as the problems are confronted all EV stock will rise. The only question is how long it will take. If you're a day trader you might take a bath, but I believe if you're in for the long haul you will do well. Who in their right mind would have stock it out with Amazon. I would have dumped it in the beginning.

The major auto makers have been making electric cars since the early 90's, over 30 years ago. Tesla's been marketing cars for almost 15 years.

EV's are now about 8% of the market.

Yep, they're catching on fast !.

Ford Will Lose $4.5 Billion on Electric Vehicles — Will Prices Drop Further as a Result?

Access Denied

Really?
 

I’m so sorry to hear about your trip! I get it about green energy. Here’s the honest truth though. You are talking about Vermont and Fall!

Heaters in electric cars run off of electricity using resisters or heat pumps. They can drain an electric vehicle battery fairly quickly. We had 2 Teslas and in the winter they lasted a little over half as long as when we drove them in the summer months. The G 80 did the best, it could do about 3/4 what it was able to do in the summer in the best of conditions.

Next trip, I would consider being more pragmatic and just getting the more portable eco friendly gas powered car for the week. Zero worries that way.

"A lie, repeated often enough, becomes the truth". (Josef Goebbels)

Methinks the above post confuses understanding with indoctrination.

Like I said before, .....excuses for an unfinished....novelty vehicle.

Another reason/excuse for the EVs not ready for prime time. EVs have limitations that ICE vehicles don't. Only reason anyone thinks EVs are "great" is because they support the false green movement. Oh, and why would anyone want people to think they made a bad choice by spending a lot of money on a paper tiger? Of course they are going to insist they like their EV. But, do they like it better than a nice ICE luxury car, or are they just stuck with an incomplete idea and don't want to admit it?
Should our government subsidize hundreds of thousands of charging stations? Surely they know that there will never be enough of them. Should they put one at each curb on the street for those residents that don't own a garage?
And using Europe as an example of how great EVs are, is ludicrous. Commuting in Europe (tiny countries) can be done on bicycles in many cases. Not even apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com View Post
"I think the post was more agenda seeking then about the difficulty in charging."

So do I, Charlie, SO DO I.

If the US is "more backward than Europe" then why is it that our poverty level families living as good a lifestyle as the middle class in Europe? And what does the metric system have to do with the subject anyway?

I can see how "someone " finds Europe so appealing. It is NOT the American way to have the government dictate what we need and what we really want. Americans prefer the freedom to make their own choices. At least, most Americans do.

EVs go back as far as the 1800's and seem to still be in their "infancy." Over a hundred years old and still not ready for prime time. Maybe they can be configured to use cold fusion :D? Another great idea that still can't quite get started. :(

You keep insisting that an EV is not the right car for YOU and therefore it is not the right car for ANYONE. There are people in western states that would never buy a car over a truck because they don't have the ground clearance for the back roads and are terrible in the snow. Does that mean that cars are bad or does it mean that their situation requires something that cars cannot provide?

If you frequently drive longer distances and don't have the time to spend at a charging station then an EV as your only vehicle would not work for you. I am currently in that situation but I recognize that others are not, I was not until recently, and I will not be in the future. I wish I had an EV when I was commuting 40 miles to work, it would have saved a huge amount in gas. My family in NY stays withing a 100 mile radius so they would greatly benefit from gas savings. When I stop taking long trips (including driving up to see them) then I will purchase an EV to save on gas. MANY people find an EV to be great today.

It's sad that you spend so much energy trying to convince others that they have made bad choices when clearly, many are very happy with their EVs. As for buyer's remorse, others regret buying that luxury BMW that turns out to be expensive to maintain and operate. I drive a luxury car today but I am really looking forward to the day my driving needs fit the capabilities of an EV so that I can trade up to one of those.

Providing the majority all walk in the same direction!

Apparently, you misunderstood my posts. Where was I saying that the EV is not for me? I never even said that the EV was a bad idea. I said it was an incomplete idea that was prematurely released with the intention of replacing the ICE. I also said that folks that support the EV are making excuses for it's limits. I also said that I own a battery powered golf cart and I add that I also own ONLY battery powered tools (except my saw). To be honest with you, I also find the battery powered tools that I own to be anemic compared to the same tools powered by fossil fuel. But, I did not wish to store gasoline in my garage. My preference.
Let me reiterate that when I read posts that state that the EV "will" be great eventually, or that the EV "is good IF" the weather is right, or they are charged over night in you garage (as if everyone has a garage). Or, the EV is fine if you don't have to travel a long way, or as long as you are not waiting in a line to charge it, etc. I hear a lot of excuses for them not being as good as ICE vehicles. So, I am sure you will agree that they are not yet ready for prime time, as I said a couple of times in response to those excuses. My motorcycle does not make claims as a replacement for a car. It is a novelty or luxury, nothing more. If an EV cannot meet th e standards or requirements of an ICE vehicle, it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury, not meant for real time.

I believe I understand you very well. Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking.

The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation. It was my only means of transportation for several years and my primary means for even more. In some environments it works well and in others it works poorly. Depending on what you need a car to to be able to do, it is a good replacement for a car.

An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do.

if you want to say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must run on gasoline then no, the EV does not fit the bill though a motorcycle will. If you say that anything that qualifies to be a replacement for a car must provide heating, air conditioning, and protection from the rain then an EV will work fine but a motorcycle will not. it all depends on your needs (or in your words, standards).

Apparently, an EV does not meet that standards *you* require for a prime-time vehicle. However, for many people an EV is quite sufficient. Perhaps the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Prius, Chevrolet Corvette, or BMW 350 all meet your standards for a prime-time vehicle. For someone in the west or north who has to drive on dirt roads or through six inches of snow or has to carry hay bails or pull a trailer, none of those vehicles is ready for prime time. Would you agree with them if they argued that if the vehicle did not meet those standards then it is nothing more than a novelty or luxury and not meant for real time?

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon.

"All EVs are nothing more than novelties or luxuries and are not meant for real time." That is not the case as nearly 10% of the driving public will attest to.

TRUE that E-vehicles are in their INFANCY. That needs to be kept in mind. Right now EVs are in a stage of development similar to the early MODEL T Fords. EVs have SO MANY advantages such as reliability, lower center of gravity, better acceleration, less chance of a roll-over, and even one that is NOT often reported------------ease of manufacturing. That manufacturing ease SHOULD eventually put DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the sticker price.
...........Any battery problems and range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past in about 6 years. In Europe new vehicle sales are around 20% for EVs. So, it is likely that the US will get to THAT percentage soon.

No there was electric vehicles before model T ford. It not the vehicle, it the ability to power them and recharge them. That still in model T ford level.
European’s don’t have to drive as far or certain percentages don’t own cars or can afford them. You can’t compare Europe to United States.

When prices come down (if ever) and the can get at least 400 miles on charge and that charge don’t take hours. I’ll consider buying one, if I’m still alive by then?

I agree with that reply and it is definitely a honest response because of actual ownership up north in the winter. It is a known fact to both electrical engineers and technicians that battery output drops with decreasing temperature. This will LIKELY be overcome by improved battery technology in the future. Science NEVER stops improving and the TIME gaps between major breakthroughs keep DECREASING. Perhaps hydrogen cells will end up in E-Vehicles.
.........The MAIN core of an E-vehicle is NOT the battery - it is the ELECTRICAL motor, which unlike the Internal Combustion Engine moves directly in a circle. The ICE engine MUST INEFFICIENTLY convert reciprocating piston travel into circular motion for the wheels. That fact allows easier and less expensive manufacturing for the E-vehicles.

Only questions I have with EVs are how they will hold up in the rust belt (corrosion due to salt on roads) and how far they will go in sub zero temperatures heating the vehicle, travel, and cold draw on batteries? Sure they good for southern states where rarely get down to freezing and you don’t venture over 300 miles day when affordable for masses.

Interesting discussion so far!

On the one hand we have "these are the things present NOW that make EVs not a reasonable across-the-board alternative to ICEs" . On the other hand we have "things will improve for EVs WHEN thus-and-so happens".

In other words, reality vs. wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is fine. But we have to live in the real world, and THAT reality is that EVs have a long way to go, if ever, before they become a reasonable alternative to the tried-and-true internal combustion engine.

If I give up my trips to MD and NY and the farthest I go is down to Tampa then tell me why an EV is not a reasonable alternative to a tried-and-true internal combustion engine TODAY.

My answer is that not only is it a reasonable alternative it is a desirable alternative and possibly the next vehicle I purchase.

Indeed!

Which is why "across-the-board" was a consideration.

Of course EVs make sense for some. Here in Florida with year-round warm weather, relatively short trips compared to (say) Northwestern Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wyoming, etc., and the relatively ample supply of charging stations, they most certainly DO make sense for many. We're considering EV for our next golf cart, in fact.

But EVs have a long way to go before they're an across-the-board reasonable alternative for the majority of Americans.

This I can agree with!

Improved range and/or improved refueling and lower prices are desperately needed.

As a side note......I prefer E-golf carts, E-bikes, and battery powered tools. As to the debate between E-vehicles and ICE vehicles - it is UNFAIR to even try to compare those at THIS VERY point in time. ICE vehicles have very little runway for improvement, whereas the E-vehicles are in chapter ONE of their development and have a LONG runway for further improvement. For those that want to, "hedge their bets" or EASE into the E-vehicle revolution - they might try the PLUG-IN type of hybrid, which is basically an E-vehicle with a small gas engine in reserve - thus a way today to AVOID range anxiety and still gain the E-vehicle advantages.
..........When people compare ICE versus E-vehicles there is more to that comparison than which vehicle goes from A to B. You need to factor in whether the A to B distance is too far for you without being very inconvenienced. Some people will realize that fossil fuels are running out and should be saved for medicine rather than just burnt into the atmosphere. And that brings up the CO2 in the upper atmosphere which is reflecting heat and warming the planet. Note : All the rain in Portland , Or. and Seattle did NOT just happen - if anyone paid ANY attention to some things that I have written, they know that the long term forecast is for 8 years of warmer air, which HOLDS more water (for rain).
............Another problem is that small gasoline engines like golf carts of smaller without catalytic converters have RECENTLY been discovered by medical scientists to put out small particles of pollutants that end up in human's lungs and even can migrate into their blood stream. So, imagine how much average lifetime those GAS engines are ROBBING from people !!!!!!