"Perhaps you don't recognize the bias in your thinking."== Bias? Okayyyyy:D If facts are considered "bias" I guess my comparing the EV to ICE is bias. Whatever.

"The motorcycle is not a luxury or a novelty, it is a mode of transportation" == So is a ski boat or jet skis, but since they are not a primary means of transportation, in most cases; or a preferred mode of transportation, then they are a luxury, just like a motorcycle. Yes, for some it is the only means of transportation they can afford, but to the rest it is a luxury and/or novelty. Yes, during the gas shortage when Carter was in, I used my motorcycle to get to work when getting gasoline was tough.

"An EV is a good replacement for an ICE depending on what you need the vehicle to be able to do."== Once again, making excuses for the EV's shortcomings. Key term "depending on what you need the vehicle to..do."

"All vehicles can be replace by EVs." Nope, not today and not anytime soon." == Glad you agree.

Once again, I will reiterate what I have said (and many others have said) that you find offensive. EVs are not suitable for long trips. EVs take too long to refuel. EVs still do not have adequate stations to recharge. EVs cannot be charged from home if millions must park their vehicles on the street. EVs are not suitable for harsh weather. Your turn, compare the EV to the ICE and tell me where ANYTHING the EV is superior and how it is a better replacement. Please don't regurgitate the mantra that EVs are working on those problems and are almost there. If they haven't fixed those problems, then the EV is not ready for "Prime Time" as I like to say. By the way, if you think that EVs are better than ICE vehicles, then you are "biased" by your own words.
I fully intend to purchase an EV to replace my present car that gets 35-40mpg WHEN/WHEN the EV can get the 900 miles per charge that they are promising in the future and when the price comes down to what I am willing to pay for an ICE vehicle. That way, I will NEVER have to stand in line at a charging station.

The fact is that you have a definition of what you consider to be a viable means of transportation and your definition is biased away from EVs. As I pointed out in a paragraph you did not include, yours is not the only definition of viable. Others have definitions that rule out anything smaller than a full-size SUV. An EV is not suitable for your needs - fine. An EV is suitable for the needs of many.


I never said the EV was superior though I can think of a couple ways that it is. I said the same thing three times now: An EV is a viable means of transportation (ready for prime time) for many people AND I can think of many people who would argue that a car is NOT a viable means of transportation. It all depends on what you need or want to do.

So when an EV can achieve the range that works for YOU and the price comes down to what YOU are willing to pay then YOU will declare it ready for prime time?

My parents grew up in a smog filled city, where you never saw the stars through the smog. One living into his mid 90's and the other is still alive, I think the hysteria over a shorter life due to gas engines is quite the hype. I am glad that you agree that EVs are not ready for the majority of our citizens. As you say, they have a long way to go to equal the benefits of an ICE. As for ICE vehicles being peaked out when it comes to innovation, I beg to differ with you. There are other forms of fuel that combustion engines can run on that may improve their exhaust. And as for oil being in short supply, I will make you a bet that even if we ever run out in our lifetime, there will be another substitute that will power the ICE veh that will work just as well, and possibly fit in the "Greenies" criteria of protecting the trees. By the way, I am surprised that someone that suggested reducing the human population to help global warming, would be concerned about the longevity of the population's lifespan. :D

Yes, and bicycles are "viable" means of transportation to many in other countries. You are still stipulating limitations on the EV. For those in the Villages, most can rely solely on golf carts for all their needs. However, if they need to exit the Villages, they will have to utilize a shuttle bus or taxi (both likely ICE powered). You have admitted that the EV is not ready for the higher abilities of the ICE vehicle. When I mention a limitation, you accuse me of being biased in my objective rationalization.
I mentioned the obvious in my statement that those posters on here that said that someday the EV will be equal to the ICE, are making excuses for the EV's limits today. It's kind of like selling a car with no wheels and saying that the designer has not yet invented them, but the engine is turning.
I say, make the vehicle viable as a "common" mode of transport before attempting to make it a primary replacement for the existing mode of transport. And anyone that says that we are not being forced into a substandard mode of transportation by the powers that be, is fooling themselves, not us. They need to listen or read the news.
I am not attempting to convince you or anyone else. I am merely disagreeing with the assumption that the EV is ready as an EQUAL replacement for the ICE. And obviously, those that are arguing, have proven my statement right when they admit that the EV still has a long way to go. Personally, I think the ICE also has a long way to go in improvements.

"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

Key term "FUTURE." Like I said before and you admit, it ain't ready for prime time today.
I don't see where being faster to accelerate is deal breaker when going to purchase. But, I am not young anymore and "peeling wheels" is not in my to do list.

"Zero trips to the gas stations and gas lines"??? Are you serious? Twenty mins to charge to 80%? Two cars in front of you waiting to charge means you wait an hour (waste an hour) in your trip.

"Global health and longevity"?? I'm sure folks are concerned about living past 100, right?
"..roll over"??? Been driving for over 60 years and have yet to "roll over." But, if you are worried about rolling over, definitely get a heavier car.

"no transmission"??? Great and an ICE is a ton lighter because it doesn't have to cart around a bunch of batteries. ICE cars are still on the road that were created in the 50's. Think EVs will last that long? Shoot, the batteries are good for about 10 years and cost as much to replace as the cost of an ICE vehicle. Took a little exaggerated leeway on that part, but you get the idea.

So, when did you purchase your EV? Like I said before, I might live long enough to purchase an EV when they are as good as an ICE and as inexpensive to purchase. All I am asking is that I can drive 500-600 miles per day without having to recharge during my trip, not worried about freezing to death in cold weather when the batteries run down, and not worried about it combusting in flooded conditions. Until they can compete with ICE cars, the EV is a luxury/novelty that I won't be spending money on, UNLESS I hit the power ball.

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

And the average working Joe can easily afford the cost of a new Tesla, right?
As you said, a person takes a trip or test drives an EV and they become the expert. I am sure that I would enjoy a ride in a Tesla. I rode in a Rolls once, but that did not mean I intended on purchasing one. Talk about a heavy car!
I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

EV will never be majority of vehicles on road till at least 30 years. By that time we won’t be around to argue about it.

So how do you think most electricity is produced? By wind which seems to know a lot about. Future? In 30 to 100 years maybe. If there still economy to afford them.

Nobody cares about fly over states. Deforestation has be taken place for 50 years or more. Next they will be flattening the high shape hills so there won’t be tree in site. Of course they will use EVs to do job cause diesel power so 20th century. :cryin2:

Tesla’s are good EV’s with system in place most places. But they are less than .5% on roads. Besides nobody knows how they will fair in rust belt when salt starts eating away the under side.

No, I'm not an expert but I'm certainly more knowledgeable than you! You DON'T charge a Tesla to 80%. See, more knowledgeable. You charge to 60-65% and that gives you 180-200 miles. If you need more, get an ICE.

NO!

You install an outdoor outlet at your front door and purchase the best extension cord you can find, wrap it around the "reel" you mount to the front of your house. When you get home and park at the curb, you unroll the extension cord & plug in your car. (Make sure you unplug and rewind the cord, before your wife cuts the lawn).

Ready to go in the morning, provided the neighborhood brats didn't unplug it, in the middle of the night.

And the great thing about the supercharger network is that the Tesla computer in the car tells you exactly where to stop, how many spots are open, pictures and video cameras, how much juice you will have when you get there and for the next stop, restaurants nearby and how long to charge. And you guessed it, is says to charge to approximately 60% NOT 80. But hey, what do I know, I'm not an expert. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

You do realize that the your initial argument is the exact thing we're disagreeing with?

It's those (and we're all quite aware of who they are) who insist, ad nauseam, that EVs are the end all, save all for humanity who are the problem.

I, for example, have continued to repeat that EVs are not the right vehicle FOR ME, at this time. And that if they improve in milage, or MY needs change, I would consider purchasing one...

Yes, a Tesla is just like a Model T...

And thank you for proving the point I just made...

I did NOT say that EVs are NOT ready for the majority of US citizens. Rather that the majority of our citizens are NOT ready to embrace EVs - and this is because people and corporations RESIST change. If people realized the environmental NEED for cleaner air and water, they would flock to EVs and accept some small inconveniences associated with them. And I never said the next sentence about benefits of ICE versus EVs. As I explained in post # 165 ICE vehicles have zero advantages over EVs today. In 1940 when there were only 80 million people in the US and factory pollution was rampant, the additional car and truck pollution was not significant. And people smoked cigars and cigarettes so their lungs were already shot.
.........But the times changed and factories moved to China, catalytic converters were mandated, and US population became 350 million people. With that many cars, trucks, golf carts, and small gas engines producing CO2 - it drifted upwards to the upper atmosphere and began reflecting HEAT, which keeps killing off plant and animal species. 2023 so far has been THE WARMEST in recorded History. China has a much larger population than the US and they are all starting to want automobiles. The graph of world population is practically straight up in recent years. Some famous old-time philosopher said that wars and pestilence keep the earth's population under control. Well, we had Covid which killed millions and now we have wars in the middle east that have the potential to kill that many and we have the nuclear bombs to do it with.

It feels like there are different arguments happening. I absolutely agree with your other posts - I just gave up looking at the poster you are disagreeing with some time ago. Some posters are so out I left field that they are no longer worth my time.

Yes, Tesla's profits have dropped by 44%...

Tesla’s Quarterly Profits Plunge 44% - The New York Times

And you're correct. Along the 95 corridor, there are plenty of charging stations. Unfortunately, that is not what is available for the rest of the country...

And you would be wrong. I have driven (and rode in) a Tesla. Cool car, but nothing that special...

Don't forget the hundreds of cars per apartment building in most cities...

The power draw would be unfathomable...

But sure, let's mandate that more and more must be produced and purchased per year...

My late mother in law lived in a condo in Boca. There were well over 100 cars parked in her garage. There were TWO EV chargers available...

That "best extension cord" would be stolen within the first week...

Not to mention the lawsuit you'll have if and when someone trips over your extension cord as it crosses the sidewalk...

I await your solution for apartments... :D:1rotfl::D

That's great, IF you live in certain areas... You know, where they actually HAVE Tesla charging stations...

Remember the Ford CEO who took a long trip in one of his own EVs and was quite dismayed by the experience?

'It was a really good reality check': Ford's CEO admits EV charging was 'challenging' during F-150 Lightning road trip — here are 3 big long-distance issues electric drivers face

Read where England has big problem with plug in stations plug in cords being stolen for copper.

Happening on this side of the pond, as well...

EV Charging Cables Become New Theft Target - Kelley Blue Book

Copper thieves have new target: electric vehicle charging stations – KIRO 7 News Seattle

Caught on camera: Thieves now targeting one pricey electric car part – NBC Los Angeles

Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1HggcfnHpo

Sure sounds like it.

290.8 Million Tesla's
 

Your personal experience is all well and good. That doesn't change the fact that exchanging 290.8M IC vehicles for 290.8M EV's is, at best, a fantasy, or, more properly, a delusion.

As for personal experience, I've driven I 5 in California during both Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks. The traffic jams at the Tesla Supercharger stations were almost as bad as the parking lots at Costco. Frustrated Tesla drivers were close to engaging in physical violence. I didn't stay around to count the minutes, but it had to take many Tesla drivers several hours to get a charge sufficient to get them back on the road.

When California experienced an electricity shortage, Governor Hairgel asked people to forgo charging their EV's, the same vehicles he is trying to force them to buy.

Sounds like EVs are for young people who don’t mind hitch hiking.

I am very later to this post and admit I only read the first few pages. I did a quick google search on the number of gas stations in Vermont and came up with over 4,000. This is why I would never own an EV until the range is at 400 miles and the charging stations equal gas stations

Why would I want to limit myself and make travel hard.

I know EV may be he future, and thank you to the pioneers, but I'll wait until it's an even trade before I jump in.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

It IS zero trips to the gas station if you have an EV and you can charge it from your home - that applies to a lot of potential EV buyers. The EV's lower center of gravity allows it to stop faster as well as accelerate faster than a comparable ICE with comparable brakes. There are better health outcomes with EVs other than living longer (to 100 or more). EVs reduce the pollution in the air to promote more healthful breathing for ANY age group and I know many over 65 Villagers that would be helped by better breathing. Also, there was a roll-over accident with a gas golf cart last week. And many alcohol induced roll-overs in gas golf carts every year here in TV Land.

The EV (green) push is a nightmare because it's a solution to a non-problem. Visit the Weather Club to hear why there is no climate change emergency, and why climate alarmist narratives are based on junk science ... The Villages Weather Club

I thought we were all about staying under the speed limit - or is that only golf carts.
Unless you’re on the turnpike, why do you need fast acceleration to go 30 or 35 MPH?

After 500 miles I pull into the gas station of choice, fill up in under 5 minutes, then I'm good for another 500 miles.

Anything that comes with government subsidies is an abuse of taxpayer monies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1HggcfnHpo

In my EV, I leave my house with a "full tank" of electricity. Saves a lot of time over going to a dirty gas station, filling with gas and getting a lung full of gas fumes.
I never have to do any maintenance like oil changes. That also saves time.

Every day driving I save hours.
On a long trip I stop every 200-300 miles, get out and use the restroom and get a snack, and spend maybe 10 minutes eating the snack, and the car's ready to go.

So I'm probably + (plus) a few hours on all my cumulative cross country trips, and - (minus) days worth of time with my everyday driving and lack of required maintenance and replacing broken ICE car parts over the life of the car.

But the beauty of an EV is way beyond just saving time over an ICE vehicle, it is the future.

Just look at the new Cybertruck. No more 12 volt architecture, all 48 volts! That's a change that's been long overdue!

So you're saying they have better accelerartion and a lower center of gravity?

And this is important?

Oh, and charging is so easy... Except for those w/o a garage, or those living in apartment buildings and condos...

And could you refresh my memory... What type of EV do you own?

Turn off the TV, research the topic in questions and then post your informed opinions. Did you even read the link that you posted? Was there any mention of Tesla superchargers?

The new Cybertruck is getting dismal reviews... Which is surprising...