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Achieveable? Sure. But not with the current battery technology. Good idea? Only if you like polluting the environment with coal-burning power plants and digging up the 3rd world for the rare minerals to build them with.
That 1000 lb battery in your Telsa required some Mexican to dig 250 TONS of the highest-grade lithium ore in the world, from a giant open pit mine in Sonora, Mexico. Then he had to treat it with another 250 tons of poisonous, stinking sulphuric acid to leach out the half-ton of lithium needed for your ONE battery. We've got lithium in America, but no sane American would allow an ecological disaster like that in their own back yard. By the way, there are 1.5 billion vehicles in the world and at least 4.5 billion people still waiting for theirs. Do the math No doubt, some day, all vehicles will be electric, but they will draw their power directly from the atmosphere, as Tesla demonstrated over a 100 years ago. They will probably also fly, using some as yet undiscovered mechanism. And the power won't come from a coal burning power plant, but from a solar farm in orbit, where the sun shines all the time and isn't filtered through 100 miles of atmosphere (or require mowing down a forest the size of Texas). We've still got 100 years worth of fossil fuels left. What's the hurry? |
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I have mentioned before (maybe not here) that I can recall the first time I saw a flat screen TV. In 1997, Sharp and Sony introduced the first large flat screen TV. It was created using the PALC technology and measured 42 inches, a record size at the time. This first model sold for more than $15,000, making it well out of reach for most Americans. I expect everyone here has flat screen displays - computers, TV's, phones, etc. And most of them cost a little less than that. It's the early adopters that can afford it that encourage the money people to invest and drive the product into mass production. In the case of EV's it is a major paradigm shift, which has to drag with it more than just cars, but our entire energy economy. And that is not going to be easy. EVERYTHING, from business financing to manufacturing processes are based on cheap high density energy. Banks make credit available to companies, based on business plans that as based on cheap high density energy. So, yeah, this is not going to be easy or fast. But, it won't ever happen if we don't start. American can choose to lead the world or follow the world but I believe it is coming, and it would be a shame for us to pass up the opportunity to lead the world in this shift. |
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1. It will take, probably, at least 50 years to wean ourselves from high energy density fossil fuels in all fields, manufacturing, transportation, medicine, farming, electrical generations, heating, cooling, etc, etc, etc. Everywhere it is used. That change should probably happen BEFORE we run out. The 100 years is one estimate, there are others, and there is no point to debating the exact number. Oil is a finite resource. It will run out some day. If we don't have in place a viable replacement BEFORE it runs out, how do you think that is going to turn out for cities like NYNY that have 25,000 trucks moving in and out of the city every day bringing food and products and taking out trash and garbage? That is just one large city. 2. Oil is a finite resource and used in a lot of places, like medicine, fertilizer, etc. And if we waste what we have left moving 5,000 lb of metal car carrying 200 lbs of people meat (4 percent payload - LOL!) back and forth to work, then we may find some of those life saving medicines might not be available when we need them later. And all those crops that feed our 7 billion people might struggle without fertilizer. Just saying, waiting until you HAVE to do something is not always the best choice, when it can become a matter of life and death. So, my feeling is let's start now, like Tesla is, and let those that can or want to afford to be early adopters fund it. Let them be the pioneers that refine and develop the tech. Better to slowly grow the number of EVs over a couple decades, so we can learn where the bugs are and how to make them safer, and better and cheaper, and etc etc etc. Then when we need them, we will have a pretty good idea how to make them - or maybe we will have figured out that they are not the best way to go, and look someplace else, like hydrogen fuel cells, or maybe micro nuke power plants, or who knows. |
Originally Posted by MartinSE View Post
Well, there is a chicken and egg issue. But, I would say you have to have demand for EVs BEFORE you can afford to solve the issues you brought up. Who do you think is going to invest the trillions of dollars to convert to an all electric economy if there are no customers? Both have to happen - more or less at the same time." Using the term "all electric economy" is not having all electric cars and does not eliminate use of Fossil Fuels. Electricity does not just exist simply by plugging in to the wall. Electricity is made by solar, water power, nuclear, wind, chemical reaction and guess what Fossil fuels. You need to increase the per centage produced by renewable power sources substantially to reduce fossil fuel needs. That has been a slow change and there is no breakthrough news saying that is near term . I am all for EVs, but we shouldn't mistake that as elimination of our need for fossil fuels just because they are electric. It certainly would be a step to reduce pollutants. |
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There is a massive amount of work to be done before we can shift from a fossil fuel economy to an electric economy. Yes, all the sources you mentioned and more can be used to create/generate the electricity. There is no one size fits all, like there is (more or less) with fossil fuels. Each area will need it's own source and distribution systems. But, we have to start someone, and now is as good a time as any. Momentum will build, demand will build and we will get there, probably total conversion will take 50 years - maybe sooner, maybe not. |
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This thread is full of comments from those who have no clue of what they are talking about.
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Unhappy Tesla owners wait in long line to have their electric cars charged | Wheels
Video Shows Long Line of Louisiana Tesla Owners Wait to Recharge If you only drive locally and can recharge at your home every night, then EVs are great. But major advances in technology will be required for mass adoption. Bigger Grid, more generation and so much more. But for some reason no major policy recommendations to accommodate the increase demand for electricity and charging stations. Can you imagine what a mass evacuation for a hurricane would be like if most people owned EV's? |
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No one is forcing anyone to change from gas to battery.
So what's the big deal? Live and commute in a city, low mileage user? Electric is an option. Travel long distances? Gas until the battery range, and charging points numbers are compatible with long distance driving. So simple! Remember, most of us will be a distant memory when all the ICE cars are completely phased out, if they ever are. Definitely not my problem or worry. |
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ev's
This reminds me of the arguments circa 1900 about the new automobiles never replacing the hose and buggy because of lack of rubber for tires and lack of commercially available fuels.
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Not to mention when people realize that, due to the extremely high cost for battery replacement and very low trade-in or resale value due to that fact, EV's are not going to be as of attractive transportation alternative. Add to that, the lack of distance capability and we'll be back to horses!!
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Odd, though: a lot of people see technology development as linear. I've often thought that seeing it that way can be limiting. Case in point: the Stirling engine. Most people have never heard of it, but it was invented well over 200 years ago (with the roots going back more than a century before that); a closed-system pressure-differential engine that depending on the fuel, can be very low-emission or even emission-free. They've been around in a limited fashion, used for mine-pumping and the like, but they never really caught on because even though they're an environmentalist's dream they're pretty underpowered, at least at their current state of development. You can buy 'em online: most are toys but some are designed to provide significant (if slow) power. There's been some work done on using solar power to power 'em. I saw a deal a few years back where someone rigged a fresnel lens to focus sunlight on the heat element of the engine, and the little bugger was humming along at breakneck speed. Pretty impressive, both from a performance aspect and the fact that there was power being produced at absolutely no environmental cost. Back to the future? |
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I wonder what the thoughts were when the conversion from horses to cars was. Are they going to build more gas stations? What if we run out of gas on our trip?.... |
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Well electric cars will be way to expensive for a lot of people to afford. I wouldn’t get to worked up about it!
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The day that we go totally electric, China or North Korea will hit us with an EMP.
Now THAT is something that will make all the worry worts bite their fingernails. |
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This topic keeps on up. EVs are improving as far as mileage and charging, the better the improvements the more demand from the public. The more EVs on the road the more profit for electric providers, which means they will be forced to improve their systems. At the end like anything else it all comes to profitability. It doesn't matter if it's a hotel, a mall, a gym, or a state putting charging station on every inch of the highway, if they can make money it's going to happen.
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NO ONE is saying that, except maybe people that don't believe it. According to the EPA: Greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from transportation account for about 29 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, making it the largest contributor of U.S. GHG emissions. That is about 1/3 of the problem. It will not solve it, it is one step. There are no silver bullets in life. You can workout everyday all day and if you eat wrong, you will get fat. You can eat well, and never work out and you won't be able to walk around the block soon. Add in smoking and your lungs will die before you do. On and on. It is one thing, one thing we as individuals can do. There are a LOT of other things that need to be done, and those we as individuals can't help with other than voting. |
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Thanks 3 grade substitute teacher. I see you had no rebuttal of the Video. So how come all electric vehicles are so expensive without the horrible gas engines and transmission? I would think the would be cheaper with less moving parts? We’re not going to be on mars buy 2099. 3099 maybe. And what going to do when they get there beings have to haul everything with them? O wait back to Stone Age. |
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"In 1997, Sharp and Sony introduced the first large flat screen TV. It was created using the PALC technology and measured 42 inches, a record size at the time. This first model sold for more than $15,000, making it well out of reach for most Americans. " I expect people said the same thing, why change to flat screen, CRTs are fine and cheaper. And, I will bet you a dollar we have a colony on the Moon by 2030, and on Mars by 2040. |
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Remember Voyager II and it's tour of the outer Solar System? Awe-inspiring to say the least. It is now in interstellar space. But given the rate that technology develops--what are the chances that our great-great grandchildren will be seeing it on display at the Smithsonian at some point in the future. Even though it sounds impossible, I wouldn't bet against it. |
It doesn't take that long to charge.
U can buy an ev and drive 300 miles for less than $35,000 Nevada mines hold 25% of the world's lithium supply. The State of Maine discovery a huge deposit. The batteries are 95% recyclable. Per figures reported by Cox Automotive, EV sales totaled 487,560 units in 2021, an 89-percent increase over the 257,872 units sold in 2020. The figures also reveal a 71.8-percent increase in EV sales in Q4 of 2021, up to 147,799 units as compared to the 86,010 units sold in Q4 of 2020. According to Cox Automotive, EV sales may have risen even higher had production and inventory not been impacted by the ongoing global microchip shortage. Adding up the annual sales beginning from 2010 gets us to approximately 26.2 million cumulative electric vehicles sold, but factoring in an increasing rate of EVs going out of operation each year, we arrive at ~25.19 million EVs in operation. This is an increase of 14X from the roughly 1.8 million at the end of 2020. Get with the times people it's happening in your lifetime. |
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Thank you 3rd grade substitute teacher. But, after you rant I see you never commended on the video which this is about. You would think being full electric vehicles would be cheaper than the dreaded combustion engine and transmissions being the have less parts? O I see the cost of batteries (or what they charge) far exceeds the cost of all that manufacturing combustion engines and transmissions. Hence the reality, the cost of fully electric has to come way down before they will be the majority. I willing to bet there Hugh profit margin on EV due (see mommy) to limited numbers being sold. |
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Please name that brand. |
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Not interested, but thought it would be good for one interested. |
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So, by your logic, electric cars should be the standard by now, just like flat panel TVs... |
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Under $35,000 don't get 300 miles. 300 miles cost well over $35,000 Now perhaps you will share your google search that backs up your claim. |
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