Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2124403)

Less powerful than gasoline. I cannot remember the numbers but I recall that natural gas is only 80% as powerful as gasoline.

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2124855)

Please define vicious push? There are incentives, there is NOTHING penalizing you for buying ICE.

Please correct me. Vicious - LOL! I rank this as the funniest comment in this thread.

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2124937)

At least learn to spell her name correctly. If feel sorry for you if a high school kid is your idol.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2125220)

Natural gas like oil is a worldwide commodity on a worldwide exchange. It would be impossible for one rich American or ONE anybody to corner the natural gas market.

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2127761)

Battery replacement costs seem high. When included in the total cost of ownership the cost of the EV is still less than half that of most comparable ICE - ie. Tesla Model 3 vs Toyota.

The batteries are warranted for 8 years or 150,000 miles. At that point the estimated range of the battery pack is 70% of the original. Of the owners reporting having driven that far, most are reporting significantly higher battery range than 70% of original. So, after 150,000 miles, your range on a 300 mile version is warrantied to be at least 210 miles.

Replacement cost TODAY is approximately $4,000 per battery pack, the depending on the model Tesla's have between 4 and 5 battery packs. So, a maximum cost to replaced all batteries is $16,000 to $20,000. Amortized over 150,000 miles a $20,000 battery replacement will comes to $0.13/mile. Adding in an average cost of $0.05/mile for electricity that comes to roughly $0.18/mile.

The average cost per mile to drive an ICE vehicle today is $0.16/mile ($4.00/gal @25 miles/gal) not including maintenance, so IF you had to replace the batteries today, the TCO (total cost of ownership) would be approximately equal (depending on gas price remaining less than $4.00/gal for the next 10 years (highly unlikely, it is predicted to go up significantly, we just had a surge to $6.00/gal due to global conditions) - ignoring the other savings in maintenance required by ICE vehicles that are not needed on EVs.

The costs in kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electric batteries has fallen by 89% over the past 10 years, from $1,191/kWh in 2010. If that same reduction in price of batteries continues the replacement cost of the batteries will be approximately $400 to $500, or a total of $2,500, bringing the total cost of ownership of the EV down to less than $0.02/mile plus the $0.05/mile for electricity (assuming electricity does not go down in cost as fossil fuels are replaced by less expensive solar/wind/hydro etc sources).

That results in $0.07/mile which is the "less than half" I stated above.

Over the Air updates keep Teslas "usable" for a much longer life, than ICE vehicles which begin falling behind the technology curve the moment they are produced.

Also, battery technology is advancing rapidly. I have given NO estimates of the expected range of a battery pack purchased 10 years from now, but some estimates of 2x to 4x of todays ranges are not uncommon as new, higher density cleaner battery chemistries are brought into production. GM in particular has designed a battery system that allows upgrading batteries with new technology. Tesla's may or may not be able to upgrade to newer technology in the future. At this point they can replace old batteries with newer technology I see no reason to think they will not continue this practice.

When you replace the engine in a ICE (200,000 miles? if maintained) you get the same engine with the same technology and can expect the same performance etc. With new batteries you can expect improved performance, ie. range, charging rate, performance etc.

The advancement in technology of the batteries is why I personally do not recommend anyone with a good serviceable ICE rush out and buy an EV right now. Things will get better while you wait. If you are in the market for a new car now, EVs can and DO compete with the cost of ICE and at the same time help reduce carbon footprints, encourage further development by manufacturers etc.

If your ICE is new (less than 2 or 3 years old) I would recommend driving it for another 5 years, and you will likely see EV cost drop significantly as auto manufactures around the world begin converting to EV. In that time frame it would not be surprising to see range go up by 50% to 70% (GM is already offering a new EV with 460 mile range - to be released soon), total battery mileage will likely go up over 200,000 miles and cost to replace the batteries likely be half what it is today ($8,000 to $10,000).

If you are a leading edge kind of person, it is safe to say that purchasing a Tesla (or Chevy Bolt EUV) today will have a TCO of less than the equivalent ICE today.

EDIT: I don't know where you read/heard that the batteries end up in a toxic waste dump. That is not true, the batteries are being recycled.

Originally Posted by positiveinlife (Post 2138064)

Lithium extraction inevitably harms the soil and causes air contamination.
According to a report by Friends of the Earth (FoE), lithium extraction inevitably harms the soil and causes air contamination. As demand rises, the mining impacts are “increasingly affecting communities where this harmful extraction takes place, jeopardising their access to water,” says the report.

So much for ev's being GREEN .The mining of lithium is a large cause of pollution.

Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2123743)

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2123743)

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?



I will never own an Electric Vehicle. When I see Air Force One Fly As Electric Thousands of Miles at one Full Charge I May Consider It. This BS of electric, is pushing us back to stone age