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-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   How "The Science" can change in less than 24 hours (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/how-science-can-change-less-than-24-hours-324834/)

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jswirs (Post 2013082)
Sad? That is your opinion. It sounds joyful to me.

I don't need anyone's advice on how I should spend the holidays with my family. I would rather rely on my own common sense and critical thinking, which may be referred to as personal responsibility. Common sense and critical thinking is, IMHO, rapidly diminishing in today's society.
I have successfully and healthfully ascended into my 70's, and I'm not about to change what has gotten me this far.
If other's feel the need to be directed, that's their choice, not mine.
God Bless you. Celebrate life and family. I would propose that those who want to isolate from their families most likely had that in them since before the virus.

GrumpyOldMan 10-05-2021 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMike (Post 2013249)
The covid variants will probably continue, real or imagined, until the government has gained complete control over our lives. The final variant will probably be called "Communism".
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep...

Bay Kid 10-05-2021 07:37 AM
I can never believe anything that comes out of his mouth. His china lab is still the reason.

PJackpot 10-05-2021 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2013018)
There is absolutely no change in what Dr Fauci said, just as there is no change in your constant attacks on a person who has devoted his life to combating disease. Statement one is about the nation as a whole, asking will the pandemic be over by Xmas. He honestly answers that we don't know yet. Will the anti-vax people see the light? Will a new strain emerge? Will hospitals continue to have to triage? Those kind of well informed questions lead Dr Fauci to his cautious answer.

The second statement is also clear. If you and your family are full vaccinated you can have a good normal Xmas. The unspoken part of that second statement is that if you and your family are not vaccinated then whether it is safe to gather is still unknown. So are you intentionally being obtuse or do you really not understand what is very clear to me in those two statements?

The science did NOT change. But science does improve knowledge with testing and evaluation in an ongoing manner. So if at some point the science does change that does not make an earlier statement wrong based on the information available at the time. However, when information is available it is the obligation of those who wish to claim the mantle of science to be up to date in their pronouncements. For those who are anti-science, ignorant, or incapable of understanding the literature and believe their own "opinions" about vaccines or deworming meds or social distancing, or masking should be taken seriously, just No to them.
No, that was not the question he was asked. But it’s no surprise to me how some people feel the need to interpret what the rest of us clearly heard, in order to justify the inconsistency of Buffoons like Fauci.

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swooner (Post 2013108)
Will be looking for your family obits!
Horrible thing to say.

Love2Swim 10-05-2021 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2013018)
There is absolutely no change in what Dr Fauci said, just as there is no change in your constant attacks on a person who has devoted his life to combating disease. Statement one is about the nation as a whole, asking will the pandemic be over by Xmas. He honestly answers that we don't know yet. Will the anti-vax people see the light? Will a new strain emerge? Will hospitals continue to have to triage? Those kind of well informed questions lead Dr Fauci to his cautious answer.

The second statement is also clear. If you and your family are full vaccinated you can have a good normal Xmas. The unspoken part of that second statement is that if you and your family are not vaccinated then whether it is safe to gather is still unknown. So are you intentionally being obtuse or do you really not understand what is very clear to me in those two statements?

The science did NOT change. But science does improve knowledge with testing and evaluation in an ongoing manner. So if at some point the science does change that does not make an earlier statement wrong based on the information available at the time. However, when information is available it is the obligation of those who wish to claim the mantle of science to be up to date in their pronouncements. For those who are anti-science, ignorant, or incapable of understanding the literature and believe their own "opinions" about vaccines or deworming meds or social distancing, or masking should be taken seriously, just No to them.
:bigbow: Nailed it. Thank you!

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jswirs (Post 2013117)
That's good! Looking for obits will give you something to do, which is better than living in fear of Covid!
Excellent response. I notice a trend among those fearful to live life. They seem to be less than pleasant people.

stevemac 10-05-2021 07:47 AM
Great post!!!

JMintzer 10-05-2021 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoNative (Post 2013179)
Questioning science is science.

Like most of the world, I admired Fauci when this all started, but I’ve come to view him as an ivory tower academician cum politician. His tarnished reputation is his own doing.
I totally agree!

jammaiora 10-05-2021 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkBlogW (Post 2012984)
Yesterday:

REPORTER: “But we can gather for Christmas or it’s just too soon to tell?”

FAUCI: “It’s just too soon to tell”

Today:

FAUCI: “I will be spending Christmas with my family. I encourage people -- particularly the vaccinated people who are protected -- to have a good, normal Christmas with your family.”
Stop whining! Yesterday was too soon, today is correct. Point being, if you are around vaccinated people you are safer to socialize. If you are not with vaccinated people, it's best, for your health and safety, not to socialize with or around them. Common sense!

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 2013191)
...if still alive... Good grief. A little fear mongering?
These fear mongers would be lost without this topic. They like to use it to show how caring and woke they are. They end up showing how mean and callous they can be.

Sherry8bal 10-05-2021 08:06 AM
Fauci is just another overpaid "government" worker who says whatever POTUS wants him to say in order to keep the American public scared. I hear people out getting a booster shot when it's not needed in the first place. These same people have Alexis, etc. in their homes and don't think one iota that "someone" is listening to everything that goes on in their own home. Ever read the book "1984"???

Lindaws 10-05-2021 08:39 AM
Get together with your families this holiday season. Life is too short. LIVE your
life. Don’t let someone dictate.

jswirs 10-05-2021 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swooner (Post 2013108)
Will be looking for your family obits!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 2013256)
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep...
I believe it is "Into your LIFE it will creep"....

And how it seems to be creeping into all those "JUST OBEY" people's lives. Now that is SAD.

Byte1 10-05-2021 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2013330)

Don't think the boarder will be best pleased having hole plugged!:icon_wink:
"....first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

:icon_wink::shocked:

PugMom 10-05-2021 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jswirs (Post 2013082)
Sad? That is your opinion. It sounds joyful to me.

I don't need anyone's advice on how I should spend the holidays with my family. I would rather rely on my own common sense and critical thinking, which may be referred to as personal responsibility. Common sense and critical thinking is, IMHO, rapidly diminishing in today's society.
I have successfully and healthfully ascended into my 70's, and I'm not about to change what has gotten me this far.
If other's feel the need to be directed, that's their choice, not mine.
Bless you. The bigger picture I'm looking @ is how insane it is to seek a type of permission to see your own family. Hubby & I remain unvaxxed, had a trip up north on public transit & all the way back. We still test negative, much to the dismay of local doctors. I am responsible for myself, always have been, & will continue to do so without the help of elected officials & media hacks. Thanks for listening. :duck:

ithos 10-05-2021 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 2013201)
Remember, any attack on Fauci is an attack on science. By my count, you just attacked science 6 times.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic but that was a hilarious response.

fcgiii 10-05-2021 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 2013059)
I waited to form an opinion until I read the OP, and having read it, it is my opinion that the post is intended to (I think the kids say this) cast shade on science. Anti-science is rampant and sad. I could be wrong and the poster was honest and sincere and did not have an "implied" comment.

But, considering the history of this site and the strong implication of constantly changing science, I doubt that.
A problem centers around those who throw the word "science" around but have no clue what science is and could not begin to describe the scientific method. A bigger problem is that there seems to be very little science going on or at least available for reporting to the public. That which is reported through the mainstream media favors the narrative of fear. Where is the science comparing the effectiveness of recovering from COVID vs. the vaccines? Instead of a vaccine passport, why not have people get tested for antibodies, which better describe the immune condition of an individual? How effective are the masks that are being pushed down even to newborns? Last year we decried the terror of "Super spreader events" like the gathering at Mount Rushmore. Now we have hundreds of thousands of unmasked people side to side at football games with no reported spreading going on.

I do not fear the COVID. I do fear what has happened to this formerly free country. Had any one written about this 2 years ago they would have been laughed out of the room. Now we have overburdened hospitals with short staffs being forced to kick out doctors and nurses who decline to get vaccinated, thus greatly acerbating the health care situation.

In the spring of 2020 Dr. Fauci was promising herd immunity, Now we have herd hysteria and a population increasingly afraid to go on with life. I fear this will not end well.

Lisanp@aol.com 10-05-2021 10:01 AM
You forgot to mention
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2013018)
There is absolutely no change in what Dr Fauci said, just as there is no change in your constant attacks on a person who has devoted his life to combating disease. Statement one is about the nation as a whole, asking will the pandemic be over by Xmas. He honestly answers that we don't know yet. Will the anti-vax people see the light? Will a new strain emerge? Will hospitals continue to have to triage? Those kind of well informed questions lead Dr Fauci to his cautious answer.

The second statement is also clear. If you and your family are full vaccinated you can have a good normal Xmas. The unspoken part of that second statement is that if you and your family are not vaccinated then whether it is safe to gather is still unknown. So are you intentionally being obtuse or do you really not understand what is very clear to me in those two statements?

The science did NOT change. But science does improve knowledge with testing and evaluation in an ongoing manner. So if at some point the science does change that does not make an earlier statement wrong based on the information available at the time. However, when information is available it is the obligation of those who wish to claim the mantle of science to be up to date in their pronouncements. For those who are anti-science, ignorant, or incapable of understanding the literature and believe their own "opinions" about vaccines or deworming meds or social distancing, or masking should be taken seriously, just No to them.
Amen!

You forgot that science and research are constantly evolving by their very definitions. Educated people know that.

Tucker Carlson’s Fauci as “Jesus” stand-up routine last night was vulgar, with the sole purpose of inciting the Evangelicals. He should be very very ashamed!

Byte1 10-05-2021 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisanp@aol.com (Post 2013365)
Amen!

You forgot that science and research are constantly evolving by their very definitions. Educated people know that.

Tucker Carlson’s Fauci as “Jesus” stand-up routine last night was vulgar, with the sole purpose of inciting the Evangelicals. He should be very very ashamed!
I never watch Tucker's show, but last night I was browsing channels and happen to stop on it just as he was beginning his opening assault on Fauci. I watched it for a while because I thought it very interesting and entertaining. I didn't see any fault in what he said, but then again that may be in the eyes of the beholder. I haven't watched FOX for a long time, and rarely watch any of the left sided media news(?)/propaganda networks either, other than the local news to hear the weather report in the morning.
In my opinion, Fauci brings on the attacks, by being available for cretins to grill him until he makes a controversial comment. To be honest with you, I have never liked what the man has said, and even less how he has spoken politically. If he is truly linked to subsidizing the covid studies in Wuhan, I give him partial blame for this mess we are enduring right now. That said, I do not know him personally. If he was as smart as he says he is, then he would keep his mouth shut and let the CDC speak about this mess instead of him.

JMintzer 10-05-2021 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jswirs (Post 2013329)
I believe it is "Into your LIFE it will creep"....
Yes, it is... For what it's worth...

Joe Folker 10-05-2021 10:54 AM
And you're proud of this?

SkBlogW 10-05-2021 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyseguy (Post 2013226)
What he said must not have polled well.
Bingo!

I was waiting for someone to nail this.

To those who think I am casting shade on science, you couldn't be more inaccurate.

I am casting shade on those who think they are informed by the science when all they really are informed by is the politics.

Cheryl Barrios 10-05-2021 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swooner (Post 2013108)
Will be looking for your family obits!
Wow! What a true human.

golfing eagles 10-05-2021 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyseguy (Post 2013232)
Why are the "Just Obey" people so nasty. No one attacked you on this thread, yet you come out attacking others.
Those who spout out garbage, aka misinformation, on a topic as important as a worldwide pandemic should be called out, harshly or otherwise. I have watched post after post since this pandemic began and the most common theme is non-professionals googling something, finding a short absurd blurb, and then pronouncing it as the gospel truth and proclaiming themselves "experts" I'm just trying to protect the innocent from these "posters"

lkagele 10-05-2021 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2013018)
There is absolutely no change in what Dr Fauci said, just as there is no change in your constant attacks on a person who has devoted his life to combating disease. Statement one is about the nation as a whole, asking will the pandemic be over by Xmas. He honestly answers that we don't know yet. Will the anti-vax people see the light? Will a new strain emerge? Will hospitals continue to have to triage? Those kind of well informed questions lead Dr Fauci to his cautious answer.

The second statement is also clear. If you and your family are full vaccinated you can have a good normal Xmas. The unspoken part of that second statement is that if you and your family are not vaccinated then whether it is safe to gather is still unknown. So are you intentionally being obtuse or do you really not understand what is very clear to me in those two statements?

The science did NOT change. But science does improve knowledge with testing and evaluation in an ongoing manner. So if at some point the science does change that does not make an earlier statement wrong based on the information available at the time. However, when information is available it is the obligation of those who wish to claim the mantle of science to be up to date in their pronouncements. For those who are anti-science, ignorant, or incapable of understanding the literature and believe their own "opinions" about vaccines or deworming meds or social distancing, or masking should be taken seriously, just No to them.
Apparently the mask science has changed.

White House medical adviser Anthony Fauci once dismissed wearing a mask to prevent infectious disease as a “paranoid” tool, laughing at the prospect during a 2019 sit-down interview on The David Rubenstein Show.

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl Barrios (Post 2013406)
Wow! What a true human.
It is something you see in many fear filled "Just Obey" individuals.

Bill14564 10-05-2021 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 2013419)
Apparently the mask science has changed.

White House medical adviser Anthony Fauci once dismissed wearing a mask to prevent infectious disease as a “paranoid” tool, laughing at the prospect during a 2019 sit-down interview on The David Rubenstein Show.
It's doubtful the mask science changed. If anything, the mask science is more understood now but the general principles remain the same.

What changed, what you (intentionally?) neglected, was the threat. In 2019 the world was getting by just fine by adopting healthy habits and taking necessary vaccines. In 2020 Covid arrived in the US and the threat changed significantly. A different threat requires a different evaluation of mitigations.

Masks in a fully-vaccinated population are likely as unnecessary as they were in 2019. However, due to the continued efforts of some, we do not have a fully-vaccinated population and people are still dying at a rate of almost 2,000 per day.

Boomer 10-05-2021 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PugMom (Post 2013348)
Bless you. The bigger picture I'm looking @ is how insane it is to seek a type of permission to see your own family. Hubby & I remain unvaxxed, had a trip up north on public transit & all the way back. We still test negative, much to the dismay of local doctors. I am responsible for myself, always have been, & will continue to do so without the help of elected officials & media hacks. Thanks for listening. :duck:

PugMom,

I am truly curious about how this works from your angle — and I hope you will answer my questions. . .

Do you so proudly declare your unvaccinated status to those you are visiting in order to recognize their right to make their own decisions as to whether they want you in their social group? (Some may be too polite to ask — so do you give them a heads-up, in advance?)

As you go out and about on public transit, etc., do you practice advised measures to do the best you can to minimize risk of infection? (Typhoid Mary was asymptomatic, you know.)

Sooooo, how do you work this? Do you hang out with only other unvaxxed people? Do you at least use good manners by asking those you want to visit if they are OK with it? What do you do in one of those friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend things that happens sometimes with lunch groups, etc., in TV? Do you check the prevailing wind, the lay of the land, to see if you would be welcome in a group of mostly strangers who might feel differently about vaccination status or do you just waltz right in among ‘em?

I really do want to know how the unvaxxed feel about how they should be handling these social situations. I think my questions are fair.

Boomer

PS: We are vaccinated and have our social life back in gear — with other vaccinated people. We certainly are not cowering in bunkers — just making choices.

GrumpyOldMan 10-05-2021 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkBlogW (Post 2013397)
Bingo!

I was waiting for someone to nail this.

To those who think I am casting shade on science, you couldn't be more inaccurate.

I am casting shade on those who think they are informed by the science when all they really are informed by is the politics.
That would be YOUR opinion. But, you are certainly entitled to you opinion.

thelegges 10-05-2021 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 2013058)
That is sad, I wish you luck in your plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 2013099)
Dont forget to put the bullet in chamber #6 before you spin
You should be thankful they all have sacrificed many things for the last 1.5 years. If you follow any posts, all of my family is in health care in multiple states. So challenger.. you think they should be shot for taking care of someone like you, vaxed or not.. But then they don’t have fear like some. Their job is not to judge others, but to do no harm to anyone who enters. Good lesson to live by.

People stopped banging on pots along time ago.

npwalters 10-05-2021 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoNative (Post 2013179)
Questioning science is science.

Like most of the world, I admired Fauci when this all started, but I’ve come to view him as an ivory tower academician cum politician. His tarnished reputation is his own doing.
Same here

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2013417)
Those who spout out garbage, aka misinformation, on a topic as important as a worldwide pandemic should be called out, harshly or otherwise. I have watched post after post since this pandemic began and the most common theme is non-professionals googling something, finding a short absurd blurb, and then pronouncing it as the gospel truth and proclaiming themselves "experts" I'm just trying to protect the innocent from these "posters"
No you are not. Many times you offer no alternate view backed by facts, you just throw out nasty remarks. I do not see how that is going to accomplish anything other than turn people off to what you say.

Wyseguy 10-05-2021 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelegges (Post 2013460)
You should be thankful they all have sacrificed many things for the last 1.5 years. If you follow any posts, all of my family is in health care in multiple states. So challenger.. you think they should be shot for taking care of someone like you, vaxed or not.. But then they don’t have fear like some. Their job is not to judge others, but to do no harm to anyone who enters. Good lesson to live by.

People stopped banging on pots along time ago.
Too many of the "Just Obey" fear spreaders are nasty. We can pray for them to escape the darkness and divisiveness.

Road-Runner 10-05-2021 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZero (Post 2013202)
Wow! Such hatred. I can't believe where the country is going. #WTF!
Not going, gone at this point.

Road-Runner 10-05-2021 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry8bal (Post 2013289)
Fauci is just another overpaid "government" worker who says whatever POTUS wants him to say in order to keep the American public scared. I hear people out getting a booster shot when it's not needed in the first place. These same people have Alexis, etc. in their homes and don't think one iota that "someone" is listening to everything that goes on in their own home. Ever read the book "1984"???
I ask people that all the time, and as time has gone on the answer has become 'No' much more often. People are sheep just like those in power want them to be.

golfing eagles 10-05-2021 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyseguy (Post 2013469)
No you are not. Many times you offer no alternate view backed by facts, you just throw out nasty remarks. I do not see how that is going to accomplish anything other than turn people off to what you say.
Then you need to read my posts more carefully

Road-Runner 10-05-2021 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcgiii (Post 2013361)
A problem centers around those who throw the word "science" around but have no clue what science is and could not begin to describe the scientific method. A bigger problem is that there seems to be very little science going on or at least available for reporting to the public. That which is reported through the mainstream media favors the narrative of fear. Where is the science comparing the effectiveness of recovering from COVID vs. the vaccines? Instead of a vaccine passport, why not have people get tested for antibodies, which better describe the immune condition of an individual? How effective are the masks that are being pushed down even to newborns? Last year we decried the terror of "Super spreader events" like the gathering at Mount Rushmore. Now we have hundreds of thousands of unmasked people side to side at football games with no reported spreading going on.

I do not fear the COVID. I do fear what has happened to this formerly free country. Had any one written about this 2 years ago they would have been laughed out of the room. Now we have overburdened hospitals with short staffs being forced to kick out doctors and nurses who decline to get vaccinated, thus greatly acerbating the health care situation.

In the spring of 2020 Dr. Fauci was promising herd immunity, Now we have herd hysteria and a population increasingly afraid to go on with life. I fear this will not end well.
Great (actually) scientific study published by the NIH (actual scientists) about Mask Mandates for Covid. Most won't get half way through it (it's very long) but the opening section lays out what their findings are very well.

Is a Mask That Covers the Mouth and Nose Free from Undesirable Side Effects in Everyday Use and Free of Potential Hazards?

Road-Runner 10-05-2021 03:17 PM
Deleted Duplicate

GrumpyOldMan 10-05-2021 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyseguy (Post 2013471)
Too many of the "Just Obey" fear spreaders are nasty. We can pray for them to escape the darkness and divisiveness.
Good job name-calling, got three in one sentence. That will certainly promote civil discussions.


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