We need to clear up one thing ... Muslim teachings do not tell their believers to kill all infidels. It does teach them to kill infidels who would commit combat and terrorism or do harm against other Muslims. That is a big difference than our narrow minded view that Muslims are out to kill all Christians. It is not their teachings.

Monkei, good information. I think most reasonable people do not paint all Muslims with the terrorist brush. But it is good to be reminded of their religious beliefs.

The above statement [emphasis mine] is true enough; however, let's not forget the role of Western society in general over the centuries with such acts as the Crusades, imperialism, colonialism....


I'm not in a position to take a position on a "Million Muslim March." But wouldn't it be presumptuous for non-Muslims to offer what should be the goals for such a march?

no more presumtuous than their credo that all other religions must cease and desist!

btk

Yes, I agree it's insulting. I also think the timing is obviously deliberate and yet another "finger in the eye" ... kind of like building a mosque near where the Towers used to be. It's all about never retreating and always advancing against the infidel. The objective is eventual victory worldwide ... however long it takes and by whatever means necessary. This march is just one small tactical event. You do have to give them credit for being brash about it though.

I think you are making a distinction without much of a practical difference when it comes to radical Islam. The driving force is their faith and belief that, once Islam "conquers the world" ... all will be well, peace and harmony etc. In that sense it is a millennial type dream.

But, what is very real is that Islam is expansive and the basic strategy is to conquer via the womb ... out procreate and in a few decades or maybe a century, many formerly Christian countries are converted to Islam. Look at the UK ... look at other areas in Europe. And, yes, look at the US. It's not PC to talk about this so our tendency is to come up with "let's understand each other" "let's talk it thru" "Muslims are as American as apple pie" and other self-delusional excuses. We sheepishly avoid confronting the ugly reality our kids and grandkids will face since we will not apparently do anything about it.

So are you saying that Islam is the only religion trying to expand? Missionary work to convert the heathens and savages ... They need to be taught about the savior who died for their sins, etc, etc, etc. seems like "we" have done our share of expanding.

I stand by my previous statement and the difference I pointed out. Muslim teachings are not to kill all infidels.

I refuse to live my life scared. You make it sound like our only possible future is thru ridding the world of this Muslim scourge.

Christians are in first place when it comes to killing other religions. I do prefer to be on the winning team, but would like to see more of us understand that we have more killing in our history than any other religion. Not to mention all the land we have stolen from those we consider less godly. That is the simple truth. NOW, we should either get our medaling butt out of the middle east or wipe them out completely. You can only poke at a hornets nest so many time without being stung. I love America with all my heart; however, we do interfere in other countries problems far more than we should.

It's spelled and always has been spelled ... O I L and our continued dependency on it.

True...however...

[B]"It does teach them to kill infidels who would commit combat and terrorism or do harm against other Muslims"

Has been wide open for definitions in recent years. "Combat", "terrorism", and "harm" are defined, for the most part, by different groups in different ways at different times.

We better be ready for this in our country.

Ok, so you're saying OIL is bad etc? Please let us know when you stop driving your car, using air conditioning (requires power) and yes your golf cart. We can find oil in a lot of places but people get upset about that too. Perhaps a separate thread?

This video is chilling and makes the point. I would really be curious to see how people advocating "more understanding" and "the bad guys are just a small percentage" along with "Christians have done horrible things etcc" respond to this. It is right there for you to assess. This is NOT what we want in America ... period.

The UK is pretty much toast. We still have time to state the obvious ... unless Muslims assimilate (which means they become melting pot Americans like everyone else) it's NOT going to work. And we should face that reality. The Brits obviously have not and seem to be truly crippled by the PC disease coupled with multiculturalism gone amok.

Isolationalism :doh:

"Isolationism is the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, foreign trade, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities. Two other terms often associated with Isolationism, but not necessarily the same as Isolationism, are:

Non-interventionism – is the belief that political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial differences (self-defense). However, most non-interventionists are supporters of free trade, travel, and support certain international agreements, and therefore differ from isolationists.
Protectionism – Relates more often to economics, its proponents believe that there should be legal barriers in order to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states."


Isolationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think this term is being misused

The oil issue is over. The time to do something about it was in the 70s. Oil is not bad, but our dependence is. I am very surprised that this is still a non issue with people. You can blame me and others but alternatives have been shot down, including even tougher MPG standards, most likely by the big oil lobbies and big auto which have open doors to the congressman of their choice. Oh and also the tried an true JOB KILLERS bull crap.

Yes, but the definition "against other Muslims" is not. It's very apparent what the meaning is there.

I dont know of any other religious group that is so hell bent on destroying the world. Sorry but Muslims are all the same . Say what you will thats my belief

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.":pray:

Talk about a broad brush. I don't want to be argumentative but it's not like we have kept our paws out of the Middle East the last 50 years or so. We have propped up and supported dictators, we have supported militaries who have been less than kind to their people, we have placed ourselves in the middle of civil wars and have taken and supported militaries of one Muslim country against another only to turn around years later and oppose the one we supported before. We have built US bases in their countries. You know before we start blaming all Muslims and calling them all out maybe we should get out of the middle east all together. Besides I am sick of supplying US blood to protect big oil companies who are under no obligation to sell their oil to the US and even going as far as giving them massive tax breaks along the way. They don't pay taxes and they therefore don't deserve or pay for their protection.

Lets just stop the support of all aid and let them try to make a living selling oil to India and china. Get out of the Middle East so we don't have to live the rest of our lives scared that Muslims might move to the US.

I, personally...and it surely may be just me, but I am so confused about some of these posts.

They seem to justify killing of people in the name of Islam, and then somehow get linked to then USA, and oil. They then criticize those who fear people who threaten death and follow up and kill. They talk about big business and such and seem to defend everything that is not of this country.

I have seen NOT ONE POST speak ill of a Muslim because of their religion. I have seen people express fear of the factions that are aggressively working into every fiber and trying very hard to make us feel guilty for our fear.

To even suggest simply giving up and turning all interests in the Mid East to anyone is mind boggling naive. To even suggest that we have no interest in other elections (while much is done from outside to influence ours) TO ME shows a complete lack of understanding of the real world.

It is, to me, very scary that people feel that way.

I am not in anyway being political Mr Moderator and apologize because I do not express myself well, but to have the USA criticized in a thread where concern is expressed over a Muslim march which has PUBLICLY STATED ITS POLITICAL GOALS shakes me quite a bit.

If a discussion of Mid East policy is allowed on here, perhaps the suggestions of running , abolishing interest, etc would be fine, but the defense of killers, either directly or implied, is upsetting to me and to ignore the world as it really is is equally upsetting.

Not political, and I apologize for the rant.

I offer from the new a few reasons to CARE about what is happening..

"Who's Really in Control of Libya's Guns?"

http://transitions.foreignpolicy.com...of_libyas_guns

Iran has 18,000 uranium centrifuges, says outgoing nuclear chief


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97G0AQ20130817

Syria: 11 killed in attacks against Christians

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle5032219.ece

Iraq premier warns of weapons smuggled from Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-premier-w...172447549.html

Israel retaliates after Syria shells hit Golan Heights


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08...#ixzz2cHN8VR34

You are spot on in my opinion. We really need to have the guts to end our dependency on oil. I'm all for the price of gas going so sky high so that public pressure will be brought on the politicians to do something about this dependency. It seems so odd that whenever this starts to happen, miraculously the price comes back down.

The technology is there; the support is not.

petroleum products are used as a base for many things we need besides fuel for our cars...i do think we should be using our own resources rather than helping brazil and other countries drill so that we can be their customers~ and the last people we should be dependent upon should be the middle eastern countries. my friend monkei seems to be of divided heart as many of us are when it comes to these complex issues. there just are no easy answers, but i think halting immigration from saudi arabia and some other problematic countries is a good start, as BTK suggested. our first duty is to protect our culture, and there is definitely a culture clash with eastern traditions. it does not make anyone "bad" but just hard to meld together with.

Let me see if I can summarize what was just said ...

1. When in doubt, blame America first

2. Oil companies are evil, rotten and so forth

Excellent post, and well put as usual Cha.

The oil thing is interesting and of course related to the mess in the Middle East.

Politicians of both parties have failed since the 70s to fix it ... Monkei is correct in this instance.

Green is good (and I plan to put solar pv panels on my roof) but, per Newtonian physics, solar/wind/bio etc will never have the sheer BTUs of energy needed to power a modern economy.

Whether we like it or not, our economic prosperity is built upon energy ... and for the foreseeable future that will be fossil fuel based. Thus, to get us out of the Middle East, I say unleash the energy business domestically. In addition, that will create tons of jobs for the working man.

Everyone wins ... would be nice to see that instead of fighting over a diminishing pie.

I'm all for ending our dependency on foreign oil, but only if we access our own oil while we slowly bring other resources along. To suddenly pull the plug on carbon fuels would do nothing but throw our economy into a tailspin of massive proportions. We have the oil, coal, etc within our own country. And we can access and use it safely. We need to do so while we continue to develop all the other viable technologies.

Okay, I agree with unleashing the energy business domestically.

From what I understand, we aren't all that dependent anymore on the Middle East for our oil. But since it is a finite commodity, we should be developing alternative energy sources as much as possible, and we aren't. Some of the technology is there, but it's being held up by... who? I think the oil industry, the same way General Motor company sabotaged the commuter rail system development in 45 cities back in the '40s.

I wish the lobbying system would be abolished so the country could maybe be run by its citizens and politicians who aren't afraid for their political futures..

Agree.

There are some mighty fine minds and some really fair and clear headed people on this forum.

Every day I rethink many things.

Thank you friends.

Or...

1. When in doubt, always blame someone else.

2. Oil companies donate most of their profits to charity.

I would ask that we all understand the whole situation before we assume guilt.

Does anyone really believe deep in their heart that if this country totally lost its dependence on oil, that the violence would cease, that the fear indicated in the original thought of this thread would go away, that the hate of this country would stop, that terrorism would ease ?

REALLY ?

You blame oil companies...you blame our energy policies ?

REALLY ?

I have come to the conclusion that many posts are bait based merely to pull somebodies/anybodies string!!!
In addition many are contrarian just on principle....agree with no one and always promote an opposite where possible....similar to baiting.

Opinions and beliefs are one matter. And we can/should all be able to tolerate another's position....I did not say like or support it.

Much of the above is why the political forum does not exist today.

Many of our world's situations defy logic.

Like remaining dependent on foreign oil when we have the resources domestically.

Not actively, aggressively pursuing energy independence. The jobs impact would be stagerring.

Continuous monetary support for governments that dislike the USA and it's people.

The USA cannot buy it's way or talk it's way into being popular or respected. Most froeign countries respect action and results....not just a wave of the check book.

And so on. Far too many of the positions taken in world events unfortunately require the USA to do for others what it is not doing for it's own people. It is called politics. That which is not dependent on any one issue like oil for example.

Many like to state we are not dependent on foreign oil. If this were true then why does the price of oil spike for the least threatening interruption of that foreign supply?

Does anyone except me wonder why the terrorist who are bent on our destruction do not attack the oil supply lines from the mideast? Hint: Muslim impact!!

I do enjoy a good discussion and even a little jousting on the many subjects of world affairs. However it is time to go to something lighterand not so stuck in a rut!

btk

What do you mean OUR oil? It is and always has been the oil companies oil. They can sell it to whom ever they like. Unless congress tells them to sell only to the US it won't happen. However, the same people who call for drill baby drill in our country would never back such a socialistic government take over of big oil.

I don't blame America first, however I am not so blind as some to think the USA s never at fault.

You can make your own decisions regarding their actions and their lobby in Washington.

THIS was the original post in this thread...

" I noticed this article about a planned "Million Muslim March" in Washington scheduled for 11 September.

'Million Muslim March' Scheduled for Sept. 11 Reorients to Seek 9/11 'Truth' - Washington Whispers (usnews.com)

I wondering how people might feel about this ?? Is this a positive development, negative, not sure or what?

__________________________________________________ __________

This is part of the link supplied.......


""We want to hold President Obama accountable for his empty promises of creating a transparent government," march organizer Isa Hodge told U.S. News. "What exactly have we spent all our money, lost lives and taken lives for? The entire record of the 9/11 Commission has never been released."

Protesters will also denounce "FBI traps," "illegal tapping and surveilling of Muslim Americans" and "media propaganda making the word terrorist synonymous with Muslim," he said."


This thread has been turned into a discussion of how our country is screwing up in the middle east, and our energy policies.

If you folks think that our energy policy is behind terrorism and the muslim aggressive approach then you are extemely naive.

Posters seem to be pre programmed to defend this march, date included as something so worthwhile.....saying they have a point, etc.

Sorry, from my perspective and speaking to the actual subject of this thread, a march with a VERY VERY POLITICAL agenda for the most part on a day that killed so many people OF ALL RELIGIONS. To march on that day saying that muslims are being singled out....sorry, I find it repulsive.

Do we make mistakes...sure.....but do not twist the context of this thread to fit some need to be contrary which seems to be the case.

I have no desire to have the government take over the oil industry. But if the oil companies (and other energy companies...coal, et. Al.) are allowed to go after the resources within our own borders, I have no doubt the US will end up with more...and cheaper...energy.

I think it is safe to say that the Middle East is all about oil. We would Not even be there if it was not.

I respectfully disagree with you.

None of the many wars going on there are in the least related to oil.

I suggest that in today's world with the proliferation of nuclear weapons, we will be wherever they are to protect our interests.

I suggest that if threats such as we continually get came from any other region, we will be there.

I do not disagree that oil is an issue, but you are using it in your argument to prove USA malfeasance in energy and world politics.

The world is now a "small" place....technology is scary. As we have read,this hate we face is not new, not related to oil, but is now easier than ever to manifest and there is no worry of those you want to kill. It does not require a large army any longer.

Israel is another large component irregardless of oil.

Furthermore, the planners spelled out their issues, and they were pretty much, as I see them, unrelated to oil. I think their statements about our country INTERNALLY were clear

You seem to ignore the entire thrust of the post...the march, the date, the issues raised. I

When I read threads like this, I read the content, but I also read the presenters.

Time and time and time again, they never disappoint. They ARE who they ARE.

With age comes wisdom and more conservative thinking but for some posters, I always read anger and very little in the way of logical arguments.

I hope to measure up to the standards of the sage posters some day. I learn so much from this forum, not only from people with whom I most always agree but from those with whom I most always don't agree.

.