:agree::agree::agree:

Brave New World
 

The other seminal novel about a dystopian future, Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, was produced a few years before the novel 1984.

There are major contrasts between the two novels, but as in 1984 many elements of the Brave New World story can be seen in our current culture.

In Brave New World the government is devoted to promoting a life of pleasure for every citizen. Although there is a rigid class structure that is determined for each person before birth, every person is "conditioned" to believe that his class is best for him so he never becomes discontented.

There are no sexual morals, and there is no marriage; there is a State Motto that declares that "Everyone belongs to everyone else." Recreational drugs are dispensed by the government. Entertainment (especially movies in which you feel what the actors are depicting - called "Feelies") are everyday events.

There is little danger of revolt against the government because citizens are immersed in a painless, amusement-sodden, and stress-free consensus. There is no old age. As a person gets older, he has "galloping senility" and dies quickly. No one is buried. The bodies are recycled for energy to contribute further to society.

There is no viviparous birth. Human ova are nourished in World Hatcheries where their future class and occupation is pre-determined by the chemicals injected in their bottle, and by exposure to heat and cold, and other conditions.

The tension in the novel is introduced by the presence of "Mr. Savage," who is discovered on an American Indian Reservation where he was a live birth to a "Beta" class woman who had accidentally become pregnant, and who was abandoned on the Reservation by the man who impregnated her.

The son, John, (Savage) is brought back to Civilization, but he has not had the benefit of social conditioning, and he has been deeply immersed in Shakespeare and the King James version of the Bible. In particular, there is tension between the absence of sexual morals in the woman to whom John is attracted, and his strict view of sexual morals learned from the Bible.

What is John to do? Abandon his morals? Return to the Reservation? Strive to fit in to the culture in which he finds himself? Or..........

The novel is a very good read and I recommend it highly.

Amazing how fiction can predict trends in society. I'm glad I will not survive to see it happen.

Really? :22yikes:


http://www.movieposter.com/posters/a...n/71/MPW-35974




:D

Big Brother
 

Another element of 1984, that we have not touched upon is the pervasive surveillance of the populace by the government.

In 1984 every residence had a big screen television which had the capability of allowing the government to see into the room. We are seeing a step towards that condition with the fact that the new "Smart Television" sets are subject to having people outside your home see and hear what is going on in your house.


In addition, the Amazon corporation has acknowledged that their "Alexa" (or Echo) home appliance control system is capable of hearing every conversation that takes place within earshot. And, every conversation is recorded. Their earlier claim that the system was activated only when you said the alerting code word (Alexa or Echo) and then asked a question or gave an order was not true.

And, by now we all know that video cameras are present everywhere in public and private locations. This comes to light when there is a crime, a terrorist attack, or other noteworthy event takes place, and video becomes available. There are video cameras all over The Villages. In addition, more and more police cars (and private cars) have dash cameras, and police are starting to wear personal cameras.

Also, the National Security Agency has acknowledged that they collect "metadata" that indicates the calling number and called number of every telephone in the United States. In the case of representatives of foreign governments, the actual conversation is recorded, often sweeping American citizens into the collection.

Perhaps you don't know that there are programs which allow the government, and hackers, to turn on your cell telephone when it is turned off, and listen and watch what is going on.

It used to be that if you stepped foot outside your house you were being recorded. Now you may be recorded while you are inside your house. The same applies to many computer cameras, which is why people now put a piece of tape over the camera lens on their computer.

This is one prediction of 1984 that has come to pass. Big Brother is watching you.

Today there are systems that take all that data, crunch it, and perdict your responce at over a 90% accuracy.

/////???????/////

If I had to choose between some arguments on here, I would choose Carl's about 90% of the time. He is a decent person and never uses anything but respectful language toward others in this Forum.. He is an ex Secret Service member and could tell us tons and tons if he could.

He is well read and very articulate which is a gift, because a lot of smart people are not as well spoken as Carl from Tampa.

We have met him and his lady companion and they don't disappoint in person. I wish he lived here instead of Tampa. The world needs more folks like him.

Thank you
 

Thank you for the kind words, Gracie. If I were still able-bodied I would still be living in The Villages. However, my disability (no Political Correct language; I am handicapped) would be too much of a burden on Barbara for me to stay up there.

One of the very positive results of having found the TOTV website is having met you and your gracious family in person.

Let me take this opportunity to mention that I join you in wholehearted support of the Morse family for having developed the finest development for seniors that I have ever seen. There are others that are "nice," including those of Lawrence Welk and Del Webb.

There are retired Secret Service Agents of my demographic living in senior developments all over the country, including several in The Villages. I have visited some of these developments. None are as comprehensive in facilities, activities, and amenities, as The Villages.

To those who are discontent here, I can only say, "Go in Peace." The Villages is not for everyone, so seek something that suits you better. But, attacks on the Morse family and their manner of doing business is inappropriate and usually appears to be founded on class envy or jealousy.

Thanks, again, Gracie, for the support. I'll work on that other 10%.

Another of the 1984 plot lines was "alternate facts", "emotional nationalism", which we are subject to today in our country.

Orwell wrote not of any party and blamed both sides rightfully so for the rise of this type of rhetoric as he lived through the rise of governments based on these things.

That and a term I like that he feared..."disbelieve in the existence of objective truth" always ring in my ears, almost on a daily basis.

The "listening" is not new and I am afraid we are going to have to get used to it, but I fear with great dread the day when we lose touch with truth.....when we are faced with preaching of "alternate facts"

I think you are referring to CONTEXT, which is so very very important when quoting someone. I have gotten lots of grief when questioning what someone said by asking...."put that in context" and then feeling wrath about over thinking or some such thing.

Spin
 

You are very observant. The following are my views. (I numbered your paragraphs for ease in referencing them with my responses.)

1. I view "alternate facts" as political maneuvering, commonly referred to in the past as "spinning." I see "emotional nationalism" in a bit different light. It is my experience that members of the military, military veterans, and even police officers and police veterans, are generally fiercely patriotic and nationalistic.

2. I agree, but would point out that Orwell was an Englishman, living in England, and the statement would not extend to USA political parties. As you reference, he certainly observed the rise of Fascism and Communism in certain foreign countries. Further, he did name a political philosophy, Socialism, as the basis of tyranny in Oceania.

3. From a lifetime of interviewing eyewitnesses to crimes, and giving expert testimony in court, I can understand how belief in "objective truth" can get fuzzy. Different people can see the same act and perceive what they saw differently. They tend to interpret the action in the context of their life experience. "Spin," mentioned above, can also be a factor. But, I continue to believe in Objective Truth.

4. You are correct that we will have to get used to being watched, by the government and others. In fact anyone who has downloaded "applications" on a cell phone has unthinkingly agreed to all kinds of personal surveillance, in all likelihood including their location, their e-mail exchanges, the photos they have taken, and the identity of the web sites they have visited on their web browser. All this was voluntary.

Boy, did this thread go on a tangent I never expected. I've read and loved both 1984 and Brave New World. I've thought for a long time that we're closer to 1984 than I care to think about. I don't like the idea of living in a world where every phone conversation I make is recorded or every word I write on a computer is there forever and never truly private. I hate how facts today are altered to prove a mindset rather than letting facts speak for themselves. I hate the biased reporting. I honestly just want the news. If I want an opinion of the news, I can find enough commentators to interpret the news given, but I want ALL of the news, not just the portion that makes that reporter and editor happy. And so on and so forth.

I was simply trying to make the point that asking someone to not use a phrase or word that is hurtful to that person and respecting that request is a simple act of kindness and courtesy. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has nothing to do with trying to stifle one 's right to free speech. It has everything to do with respecting the feelings of another human.

I thought your OP was well thought out, presented well, and on target. The 1984 was an add on and it was free....so .....

But, I still think context is important, and frankly your point is well taken......try not to hurt anyone, be aware of who you are speaking with, never lie, relax and it all works out.

Our only disagreement is on the news. I do not think it is possible even to change or alter the news.....it is the news. The presentation will take you to places you may not want to go to, so, for me, READING is the answer, and insure the source is legit on both sides. I just want to be armed with the basic facts.

My issue with news is that sometimes (frequently?) things are left out or are not quite in context. Examples: Trump fired several attorneys shortly after taking office. A common practice done by most Presidents was rarely mentioned. A PO shot an unarmed man. No mention made of the fact that man was high on PCP and beating the police officer. And so on and so forth. Give me all of the facts known. Don't interpret them for me. Don't give me your editorial comments (either verbally, facially or via body language). When I want opinions, I'll look for them but please let me have the facts, just the facts from news if you're claiming to report the news.

I Agree, but on the firings you missed some facts there.:)...but yes that does happen and that is why...well for example...I read a lot, probably obsessively, and have developed cycles or who to read and when. I pretty much know who is conservative and who is liberal, who wants to make it like the National Enquirer, etc. I actually read one liberal and then one conservative...difference in facts is sometimes no big deal but sometimes it is to me, so will continue and investigate. I admit it makes me sound a bit "off the wall" but politics and government have either been my occupation or avocation for man years and I love it.

By the way, despite what they say "down below" in political, news media does not lie...most they do package it for whatever audience they are searching. So tired of hearing how the media lies...they do not...if they did, they would face terrible consequences. I think our journalists are so very very important in our democracy.

Again, subject changed....did I tell you that your OP was spot on ?

LOL rocky. You did, thanks.

And I agree, the media doesn't lie, just skews things toward their target audience. I'm one of those who doesn't like that. And, like you, I use several sources. The AP website is pretty neutral, Al Jazeera is good for a lot of international stuff but you have to be careful and make sure you're not reading an opinion piece, Reuters seems to vary by subject, Bloomberg okay, huffPost for the liberal side, BriteBart when I have the urge to barf.

My parents often have FOX on TV or One American News. I usually look at CNN or one of the major networks usually CBS in my bedroom.

If there is a story I really want to see what the facts are though I go to the local news stations wherever that incident happened before the major news services put their spin on the facts by omitting some, highlighting others, etc. So, if there is an incident in Tulsa, OK that makes the national news; I will check the local affiliates of CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX to see what really happened there in Tulsa. The Tulsa newspapers would be even better if I can get access to them. So many newspapers now seem to require subscriptions on line to few more than a set number of articles.

I tend to...for the most part...agree. But the bias is often so extreme from sources that are just supposed to report the facts...that it's almost as bad as lying. It's certainly not unbiased news reporting...as journalism should be.

The MSM focuses on expressing its biased opinions, frequently failing to report the facts accurately and completely. It twists and distorts the news in order to advance its political agenda. At least in Russia the people realize all they are getting from their media is propaganda.

MS,
 

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

Good point.

I have yet, despite very loud claims, ever to have anyone show me how the MSM neglects to report the news. Fake news as it is called is simply news you do not want to hear.

Since books have found their way into this discussion, I would like to suggest a set of books - no fiction involved: The Story of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant ( The Story of Civilization (11 Volume Set) by Will Durant — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists). The detailed descriptions concerning the rise and fall of the world's great civilizations is informative. There are many parallels with our own situation.

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

In a lot of ways, this thread is quite analogous...to what's happening in the real world.

As soon as something is shown to be embarrassing or not adhering to ones own beliefs, a diversion and obfuscation...is quickly attempted.

"Oh look...a shiny thing."

I plead guilty. I hijacked my own thread a couple of times. Actually, my original post really was not about PC but more about people using a dislike of PCness to justify saying something they know hurts another. But it certainly has become an interesting thread! Can't wait to see if it travels in another direction soon. (sorry, really not interested in Gloria, Lisa and the genetics of parent/child all that much.)

actually, Gracie, slightly incorrect. I started the thread because I was offended at your statement about me taking offense to the phrase drinking the Kool Aid. I'm not offended by that phrase. It hurts! It brings back some very painful memories every time I see and hear it. I'm offended when someone yells at a child in public. I'm offended when someone publicly makes fun of another. I'm hurt when someone reminds me of the death of someone I loved by the simple turn of a phrase. Fortunately, those who personally know me respect that some phrases hurt me and don't use them around me.

I hate that the online news posts pictures and names of people arrested. They've not been tried nor convicted. Yet, they are publicly humiliated. As to the gentleman in New Orleans, the only reason his picture was posted was to make fun of him. That, to me, is inexcusable. he allegedly committed a crime. He was handcuffed and arrested. That should be punishment enough. As you yourself said, had this been a friend or neighbor, it would not have been amusing. Well, he is someone's friend, neighbor, relative. Sorry you don't get that.

I did not ever see the picture you are referencing, and wondering how it got in THIS thread. I simply found the subject of PC to be interesting because so many seem to object strongly to THEIR INTERPETATION OF THAT TERM.

I thought the thread was interesting, even evolving into a discussion of "1984". I never asked the origin, nor cared.

Suddenly, someone has the need to make a strictly, easily spotted political statement, and from what else I can read, now a personal tiff that most knew nothing about, but you sure brought it back up.

Why these threads get diverted when they go in certain directions and diverted off subject is beyond me.

Obviously, many folks are still in election mode and from what I read are going to stay there.

The subject was good, the OP was good, and for the life of me, I do not get the diversion.

I get it. Police aren't there to understand, they are there to uphold the law even if bleeding hearts are saddened. Without laws and people to uphold them we would have a mess. Sorry. We already have a mess.

I yelled at my children in public a time or two. So far they haven't been arrested, have decent jobs, pay their bills on time and are mannerly and nice. In Helene's case she is retired from a long career at McDonalds.

While your complete lack of empathy is noted, I am wondering what your comments regarding your children have to do with a thread begun to discuss PC ?

Sometimes, threads and conversations can actually be held without political lectures, without judgements, simply an expression of feelings. You obviously are more interested in PC THAN MOST.

An expression of sympathy for some victims is not a condemnation of police; it is simply an expression of sympathy and nothing more.

Making it Political always, and judging based on YOUR life is not only not fair, it is terribly shortsighted and mean.

You are an individual and should be judged like that, not based on me or my family. You should be able to feel sorry, even as you mete out justice.

It was started by the OP for a very laudable and admirable goal.

It turned political in Post #11 and the usual suspects...took it and ran from there. :ohdear:

Very well stated. :BigApplause:

I have always respected and loved RedWitch. That being said, I do have to disagree in some respects of her post.

Everyone here does not know everyone else, personally, and some may inadvertently say something (such as the Kool-Aid remark) that they will find hurtful or offensive. Hurtful words are not always intended to hurt. The Kool-Aid remark is simply defined to those who used it as "following blindly without reason or consequences, just acceptance without question". I would never INTENTIONALLY say something to hurt another. It hurts me when someone starts a comment with "Jesus Christ", but I just simply ask them to please not do it. Decent people will honor a civil request. Those who won't........well.

I grew up in Texas and could easily take offense at the term "redneck", but I don't. What is perfectly normal in one part of the country is often not in another. We refer to anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line as Yankees and the fact that they don't always see things like we do. That doesn't make them bad or good. I was once married to a "Yankee". He always just laughed and said the he was from "Southern Connecticut" because he had been in Texas for so long. People in Oklahoma are called Okies. People who attend Texas A&M are called Aggies. Amarillo has a school whose sports teams are the Rebels, with the majority of the athletes black, and they are not offended.

I can remember when the "n" word was common and NOT derogatory. It was simply descriptive of color. I remember MLK talking about the Negroes, because the term African-American had not yet been coined. Now Negro is no longer considered "PC" and is "offensive". I remember the days of segregation and didn't agree with it then and don't now. I don't agree with anyone segregating based on race be it white, black, brown, red, or any other.

I am part Indian but am not "offended" by Redskin, either. I don't care about your sexual orientation; only how you treat me as another human being. I'm still waiting to see how the PC world is going to handle the birth of babies, human or otherwise, regarding the designation of male or female at the time of birth.

I still say Merry Christmas and am comfortable doing so. I am not offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah or whatever they celebrate.

I just would like to see a return to the days when we were not expected to walk on eggshells for fear of "offending or the possibility of hurting someone".

Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.

I must be lucky or stupid.

I never ever have felt the need to be PC. I think that is a "political" condition and people tell you that.

I grew up in the 40s and 50s when younsay the N word was acceptable...well, I never used it. I grew up around blacks, Spanish and a host of races and religions. I coached basketball and had every race play for me. I never needed to have anyone tell me what was PC. I never had to even think about it frankly, but I tended to shut out labels, and still do. Make no mistake..PC is another label.

Unless we allow others to tell us we shouldn't say or not say, we are innately good people. Time has not changed anything, we just have a sped up communications and nothing is different. Those who tell you there is a PC problem want us to have a PC problem. Most of our problems are NOT racial, NOT religious and we simply refuse to engage with each other to solve the issues.

PC is really just a bunch of non-feminine bovine ejected digestive by-product.

Main Stream Media
 

The Main Stream Media (MSM) are those TV networks with the highest number of viewers (ABC, CBS, NBC) and those newspapers with the greatest readership (Washington Post rather than Washington Times; New York Times rather than New York Post, etc.)

Note that these are the broadcast TV networks (although they can be seen on cable) in contrast to the Cable networks. Regardless what Fox News Channel (cable) says about it's viewership compared to CNN, MSNBC, and other cable channels, Fox's viewership is minuscule compared to the viewership of the major broadcast networks.

It is generally thought that the MSM reporting tends to be Liberal, while Fox News Channel is the flagship of Conservative reporting. That may be changing, with the departure of Bill O'Reilly, and the frequent acerbic Liberal remarks of Shepherd Smith. There are hints that Sean Hannity may not be at Fox much longer. A new Conservative news cable channel may be coming soon.

Lucky or stupid.

There is another choice.


Mark Fuhrman's racist tapes show witness in OJ Simpson case saying N-word 41 TIMES | Daily Mail Online

Deep Reading
 

I sampled some readings in The Story of Civilization, and in Gibbons' Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, as well. I never could get very involved in the narrative.

Perhaps I was too immature and inexperienced at the time to appreciate what I was reading.

(Click on cartoon for larger image.)

Not Hijacked
 

Once created, threads take on a life of their own, and often veer off on all sorts of side paths. If the Moderator feels a thread has gotten seriously off point, a course correction is directed.

And, of course, on occasion the Moderator will remove a post when the post is objectionable due to abusive language or perhaps when the posting seems irrational.

political correctness
 

I love this line from Dillywho...........
Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.