So many hymns out there and so few noodled that address this problem
 

With all the mind-numbing statistics thrown about in the criminal justice system, perhaps none is more important than the recidivism rate – the likelihood that someone who broke the law once will do it again after being set free. This is the number that tells us who we would be wise to keep locked up, and who is (statistically) safe to send home
The U.S. Sentencing Commission released the results of a major study of all 25,431 federal offenders released in 2005. For the most part it reaffirms the conventional wisdom of criminologists: older offenders and those with more education are less likely to return to a life of crime and the culture of their upbring.has alot to do with this problem. The single best indicator of whether an ex-offender will become a re-offender is the length and seriousness of his or hers rap sheet. The conclusions bear repeating, since they offer some guidance to policy-makers but are looking to please a lot of their constituents and who are mostly not criminologists.

Pay the teachers all you want................without engaged parents, you ain't gonna have better, more productive, smarter, happier.

agree.................i was using "college" generically.

An all-too-common misapprehension. As a matter of fact, the only provable correlation between money spent for public school education and the quality of the finished product (graduation rates, test scores, post-secondary education rates) is inverse. Take any state you care to choose, compare the money spent for public schooling district-to-district, and then apply the criteria mentioned and I’ll guarantee you that as a whole the districts that spend the most, have the poorest results. To propose addressing that problem by throwing even more money at those districts is the definition of illogic.

There is a very good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with the schools. It has everything to do with how the kids are socialized. There are of course exceptions, but in general a kid’s direction in life is determined between birth and age five when the majority of that kid’s socialization happens. So what do you think will be the result if a young toddler is exposed to two wholesome parental influences, solid role-models, praise given to older siblings who succeed in school, a strong moral code with solid values, etc., as compared to a kid who from infancy on hears about how bad the establishment (read “Whitey”) is, whose only parental influence may very well be only a mother whose “mothering” is tepid at best, no solid father figure but rather a series of older males (siblings, whatever) who are involved with the criminal justice system from a very young age, whose knowledge of the school system before he ever entered it extends to hearing it ridiculed at home and those who succeed in school routinely put down, and then topped off by being told by various means that he is incapable of succeeding UNLESS he accepts help from the very establishment he has been taught to hate—and what is the result? Answer is obvious. Many if not most of these kids are beyond hope by the time the school system has anything at all to do with them, and to expect to buy miracles by throwing ever-more money at the schools who have to deal with these kids—well, in my book that’s a pretty good definition of insanity.

The only logical answer to this is the one the advocates would never allow, and that is to fix these kids during that zero-to-five window when his or her future is shaped, and that can happen only if the family itself is fixed. All the present course dictates is that we will be saddled with a permanent underclass that our own shortsightedness helped bring into being.

Post # 49 says, "the more educated the LESS likely to turn to CRIME. So, THAT is BASICALLY what I said about teachers and education in MY post. Also, I believe that I remember reading somewhere that teachers in Europe get paid MORE than the average US teacher. And, within the US, Florida is close to the bottom in education OUTCOMES. That MAY (?) correlate to Florida being the oldest state. And because many have grown children that live in other states, Fl residents may be LESS willing (and able) to FORK-OVER an increase in property tax to go toward teachers and schools.
.....I need to look up what Norway and Finland pay their teachers.
.........If that correlation between crime and low education is correct, if someone did a cost-benefit analysis, they might find that the cost of crime in Fl exceeds the cost of making IMPROVEMENTS to schools and teacher pay

Many of those incarcerated for "possession" as their sole offense, really were dealers and had gun charges that were dropped if they pled to lower charges...

Lots of stuff there. Personally, I would NOT want the 60-year-old Village man to be charged with a FELONY. If I were running the world that would be ONLY a misdemeanor.
.........I would NOT, "sell prisoners as slaves". And if it was an "open and shut" case that someone murdered another person, then I would have NO problem with a swift execution to save taxpayer money. But, rape and battery or some lesser violent crimes, I would be inclined toward long terms in prison.
........And have prisons more like the Japanese style with harsher conditions and more rehabilitation for when they get out later in life.

Just remembering a line from old movies that police would sometimes say, "stop or I will shoot". If the person didn't give up and got shot, it was their own fault.

And what ever happened to "three strikes, you're out"? For violent crime it seems reasonable to me.

How about using a lie detector to help determine if one leaving incarceration is fit, mentally and emotionally to be released back into society. Just one of many diagnostic tools.

Q. Is allowing groups of people with "bad or violent tendencies" to gather and "socialize" a good or bad idea?

At what point, if ever, does the incarcerated finally understand and accept the fact that the reason the are in prison is their own fault?

Last paragraph...."the zero to 5 age window".........well there has been SOME addressing of that problem. The lunch or breakfast idea - so that they don't have their brains stunted due to malnutrition. And school attendance is getting earlier and earlier - they are called preschool programs. PBS also has childhood and preschool educational and MOTIVATING.
......The 1st paragraph....."take ANY state you choose".......Well, I chose to NOT pick a state because I wanted to compare all US states to Finland , Estonia, France, Sweden, and etc. That is the comparison to make and I believe that the European countries VALUE their teachers MORE than we do.( and pay them more and REQUIRE MORE qualifications than we do)
.........Now, the middle paragraph.......I was in agreement with MOST of it. It lost me with the "Whitey" reference because that is a little....you know------------. Also, there are single WHITE mothers or fathers that are financially and attitude-wise INCAPABLE of providing a SAFE and loving home - and yes DRUGS can play a big role.
........Overall, these problems of preschool kids WOULD OFTEN lead to lives of crime and incarceration. I would like to see a cost-benefit analysis that might PROVE that it is cheaper to raise some taxes and get GOOD teachers and preschool activities and nutrition versus the COST of PRISON incarceration. Plus add in the cost to society of crime and murders. Difficult to put a dollar amount on a human life. There was that volleyball college lady from Tn. that lost BOTH legs AFTER some violent criminal attack. She HAD a lot of future potential and now has a great setback.

As far as conspiracy theories go..........I would think that it MIGHT(?) be possible for Russia to have HELPED in the distribution of killer Fentanyl into the US. That IS possible.

College today has a lot MORE veracity.

Who appointed Kim Gardner? This is the big question. The answer is money provided by non other than George. George who? Soros. He is trying to destabilize our citys by doing that and creating mass chaos so what will happen? Martial law. He is funding many more city prosecutors around the country. How do you take down a country? Martial law![/QUOTE]
Well, the old saying really IS, "Let George Do It".

I agree except the "chopped hands" part. We lost $ 2K of tools here in TV Land to a burglary and about $ 20 K of household stuff and vehicles in Tn. burned down by criminals that left a "calling card" of many crack needles - we were here in Fl at the time, fortunately. Police there had a shootout with the WHITE old gang leader and he pulled his gun and they shot him very DEAD. I was sad about losing the house, but NOT too much for his loss.
........So, I can relate to your loss!!!!!!!!!!! It is a SO_.

I could have had a bazooka, a tank, and a squad of Marines with me when these atrocities happened to me because we were out of town. Even 2 states away when it happened. Unless I had a camera system protecting the 2 houses and the speed of Superman, no gun of ANY kind could have helped my situation and many other people's situation as well.
.........The answer to crime is to have a SYSTEMIC solution, NOT just a gun in your pocket or purse. But, in SOME situations it would HELP, of course.

I am sick and tired of people using the word Woke for everything they have an issue with. Look up the real definition.

Who decides the "real" definition?

FYI, George Sorus "bought" 27 State attorney generals. They only proscute who he tells them to.

If a law is constitutionally correct and there are minimum sentences ( not guidelines) and a person is judged guilty by a jury of peers and has gone through a fast appeal process (also adjudicated by peers) why the heck would you even need a judge?? Or a District Attorney to decide if the perp would be charged? My admittedly uneducated opinion is that our legal system has become entirely too complicated. No, I do not think Sharia is a good alternative (know it was said in jest) but something a bit more stringent is needed on our system.

It would be far better to do a comparative study of the children entering the public school systems for the first time in the inner cities of Finland, Estonia, Sweden, etc., as compared to a similar group of inner-city children in American public schools. Compare things like how many of each group come from two-parent households, homes where the parents support the family rather than depending on the dole, criminal activity family-to-family, Academic records of older siblings, etc. How do you think the derived statistics relating to the American kids would compare to those of their Nordic counterparts?

It has nothing to do with intelligence. Kids at birth are blank slates and there have been no independently verifiable statistics that show that children of any one ethnicity are brighter or less intelligent than any other. It has everything to do with motivation. And kids from homes that stress positive values and value achievement within the system are going to be far more motivated.

You can’t teach a kid that has decided he or she doesn’t want to be taught.

None of those European countries you mentioned pay their teachers more than the US...

Teacher Salaries by Country

Access Denied

In fact, your beloved Sweden pays significantly less... $62.1K vs $47.6K

And Finland is even LOWER @ $44.1K...

Facts Matter...

Do you have a "shred" of evidence to support that theory?

My problem with the term is that it is one-word oxymoron.

How is it possible to be “woke” and comatose at the same time?

She was ELECTED! No one APPOINTED her...

It took 15 seconds to find that FACT.

let's start an anti-woke club. There are clubs about everything in TV Land.

That idea only exists in the environment of the dark web. And exists BECAUSE of his RELIGION. Looks like we need a deprogramming program in TV Town

The idea ONLY EXISTS on the dark web and primarily because of his RELIGION. And please NOTE that physical and verbal attacks are INCREASING greatly for those of that same RELIGION here in the US - the country which PROFESSES (?) to believe in religious freedom.

I agree with everything in that post - except for one tiny part.......and it is just my personal opinion, but with a little bit of psy 101 thrown in. Babies are not EXACTLY a blank slate for a lot of reasons. One that has come to light recently is that Black mothers and children do NOT have the same survival rate in births, WHITES are higher. The reason is that many Doctors have an implicit bias and they make statements like, "BLACKS have a higher tolerance of PAIN".......which is false!
........Psy 101 talks about NATURE AND NURTURE. Basically saying, that the DNA that a person is BORN with has great INFLUENCE on their health and success. Within that basic Nature framework, then Nurture takes over and an individual can push themselves either to achieve higher or lower than the Nature (DNA) framework would predict.
.......For example - Asian mothers are NOTORIOUS for driving / motivating their children upward toward success.
........Another ethnic example.........BLACKS in the US as opposed to say France or Germany have a century or more of slavery to overcome and it has been 2 steps forward and one step backwards throughout US history, which needs to be told PRECISELY as it happened.
........Hispanics would fall somewhere in between those groups in financial terms and social acceptance. ( and interesting and NOT coincidental, their skin tone is ALSO somewhere in between.

Which RELIGION would that be?

Gobbledygook...

My Sainted Aunt!
I am guilty of posting a lot of rubbish, but in this thread, the experts are giving a Master Class!

[QUOTE=tjlee500;2190894]Incarcerations costs big bucks. There is constant pressure not to increase taxes or allocate more funds. Politicians want to be reelected to they will shy away from tax hikes. Same pressure on judges and prosecutors.

Reform is also needed: Overall, there are roughly 23,000 people still in jail for marijuana possession as their sole offense; and as of 2020, over 45 percent of nationwide monthly violations are still drug-related.

Personally, I believe the family structure in America no longer exists in many places and children grow without, respect, love, consequences and care.[/QUOTE

I believe you are correct, lack of a traditional family structure is a big part of the problem, but I maintain this issue has so many interrelated parts (example: "could" shockingly filthy lyrics of popular songs, disengagement in traditional social communications person to person, easy availability of both legal and illegal drugs, lack of community interest in an engaging school curriculum that teaches actual skills leading to steady jobs with higher than average pay, public school emphasis on social/cultural issues of sex, gender, equity (not "equality" but equity) at the same time parents SHOULD be demanding more challenging instruction in basics of mathematics, science, READING and writing, technology, and industrial offerings in welding, auto mechanics, woodworking, etc. We "could" demand classes on caring, quality, parenting, but we (the community paying for the schools) do not, instead we demand the emphasis be on how to change ones sexual orientation both mentally and physically; something once considered a matter to be pursued OUTSIDE the public school curriculum, not a basic education component. To all that, the continued legalization of marijuana, regardless of how any reader here feels about that personally, to our young people, it only holds out an easy answer to alleviate the suffering they endure from the hateful "social" media that is probably 75-80% of their "social lives". So many contributing factors, and the vast majority are not only solvable, but at no, or very little cost ! It takes a community that cares to develop a curriculum that actually helps build a strong, stable, future citizen. Just a simple, nearly cost free, move such as making high school graduation mandatory in the USA, or denying driving privileges until age 18 to any teens who refuse to attend school. Yes, many may be thought of as small, incremental, changes, but TOGETHER they would make a HUGE different in the crime statistics. Sadly, aside from a very small minority in any community, few people care anything about these issues: rising crime, decaying schools, depresses students, violence (this past week a student beat into a come a teacher aid here in Florida who "took away his video game consul he was playing in class". Does make one think that forbidding cell phone, I pods, video games, etc. etc. in public school classes would eventually result in HIGHER TEST SCORES and HIGHER SKILL LEVELS for seeking a career later. But, again, tax payers are not even interested in trying this just for one or two years to SEE if this one simple thing would result in reversing this (shameful) trend here in the USA.

:bigbow: :agree:

Because they are not held person responsible for releasing violent criminals that hurt more people. I'm all for second and third chances, but not when violence is involved.

Woke, politically correct, don't offend, etc etc.
 

I really do try to understand where the other side is coming from when I'm involved in a disagreement so let me know how these things make sense.

I teach classes to the military all over the world so I get to hear quite a few odd things

1. As an old telephone company splicer I worked in 100's (if not thousands) of manholes. Today I'm forbidden to say "manhole". I'm told to "maintenance hole" why???? Before you answer, look up the history of manholes

2. I can't say "male to female connector". I have to say "plug and insert"

3. In Australia I couldn't say "downguy" whch is the wire that stops a telephone pole from leaning due to stress. I had to say "stay" because someone was offended by "guy"

4. I worked in 29 prisons in Michigan and I couldn't say prisoner I had to say "client of the State" and the "clients don't have cells they have "living quarters" and outdoor payphones had to be called "outdoor communication devices for rehabilitation

5. And finally, I dont know if this was ever verified but I was told you could order a Whopper at Burger King with two top buns or two bottom buns if you were offended

wow, I feel better thanks for allowing me to vent

You all who have been debating this issue responsibly can thank the political commenters for the closing of this thread. It has just become too much moderation work.