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If you have a garage you can charge in overnight (suburbs, TV, rural) and you drive shorter distances, EVs are great. If you live in the city, or most apartments, they are not practical. This may change in the future, but it's reality now. |
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Right now, if you can't "charge at home", the economic model changes drastically. There's no free lunch. |
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No infrastructure needs for corn gas, it was home made until Rockefeller got his hooks in Henry ford. By time EVs take over we will long dead and buried. |
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"" EV-specific taxes: • Some states have begun charging annual EV fees to replace lost gas tax revenue (e.g., $100–$200/year), but these are not included in the per-kWh rate. ✅ So yes — most quoted EV charging rates include electricity taxes and fees, but not long-term vehicle fees. ⸻ ⛽ Gasoline Prices: Do Include Taxes • The price per gallon already includes federal and state fuel taxes: • Federal gas tax: ~18.4¢/gallon • State gas tax: varies, up to ~60¢/gallon (e.g., California, Illinois) • Combined, taxes can make up 10–20% of the price at the pump. ✅ Gas prices at the pump always include taxes. ⸻ 🧮 Bottom Line (Adjusted View): • EV charging cost per mile includes most usage-based taxes. • Gasoline cost per mile includes all per-gallon fuel taxes. • Annual EV fees (in some states) slightly offset the savings — worth factoring in for long-term cost comparisons." |
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Not owning an EV myself, I had no idea that electricity from public chargers cost three to four times what we pay at home. |
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I'm particularly interested in the fuel. The coal-fired plant is often mentioned but since only about 15% of electricity is generated from coal today, it is five times more likely that your electricity came from something other than coal. Regardless, it's the cost that interests me. From both the chatGPT table and what we actually pay, the gas to move a vehicle a given distance costs three times as much as the electricity used. Yes, there are gas taxes but there are also electricity fees and someone soon will point out the losses incurred in transporting electricity over a long distance. When everything is figured in, the difference must come down to the price of fuel used. So either electrical generation uses a very inexpensive fuel compared to gasoline or a power plant is much more fuel efficient than a car engine. My bet is the latter, that power plants are much more fuel efficient and therefore much cleaner than gasoline engines. When ALL is added up, it isn't clear that EV and ICE engines have ever really been compared apples-to-apples and it sure isn't obvious that ICE vehicles have lower overall emissions. |
There is a lot in here that is not true. Most obviously is electricity generation by coal. Coal represents about 16% of electricity generation in the US and has been dropping steadily, primarily because natural gas is a lower cost way to generate electricity, plus it is cleaner. This is hardly “by most likely a coal fired plant”. You can easily look this stuff up instead of posting nonsense to fit your bias. Buy an EV or don’t buy an EV; nobody cares.
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IMO, hybrids are a joke. You get 20+ miles on electric power? So you are paying a premium for a car that gets you a few miles per tank let alone the cost of maintaining a hybrid.
Somebody is wrong, gas prices are going lower, much lower. You can’t claim a blip for a day means much in gas prices. I’m paying < $3 a gallon and that includes all taxes which EVs will be starting to pay road taxes in the future and no subsidies. Electrical grids: I worked at gas/electric utilities for over 32 years and the country gets very little power from hydro dams. 99% of the power our utility provided was from hydro but that is rare. Our utility started making new power generation plants using natural gas, wood chips, fuel cells, and nuclear. Currently, all talk and all investors putting big money into this country are for power plants to produce energy for our new AI server farms that are coming online, not EVs. Most of them will be nuclear or gas. Wind and solar generation is a joke, they are so inefficient, ugly, needs so much space to get so little power. Nuclear Fusion is the ultimate way to produce power but not there yet. EV byproducts are hazardous to the environment. Their batteries require hazardous waste methods of storage that can pollute aquifers in the future. |
General Motors
GM is moving production from Mexico investing 4 Billion in plants making SUV s and trucks, not EV. Their ceo said EV sales were over hyped.
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I agree about hybrids; you are paying for a lot of complexity. Renewables are about 20% of electricity generation in the US with hydro at about 6%. Hydro is regional. Perhaps renewables will continue to creep up but they have issues providing a base level of power. I agree that nuclear has advantages over other sources. The 3 accidents, unfortunately, didn’t help the public impression. It is what it is. I doubt gas prices are going much lower. When the price of crude drops too low then production is reduced.
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90% or more of my trips locally are less than 20 miles round trip or 100% electric. One gallon of gas lasts a very, very long time when you use none of it. Many of my medium trips are down to Orlando (120mi RT) or Tampa (150mi RT). If I can only recharge at home, that still gives me 20% to 25% electric, a not insignificant savings. The HEV (Toyota Prius, gas + electric) at about 50mpg is still considerably cheaper to operate than a non-hybrid at 25-30mpg. The cost of maintaining a hybrid? LESS than the cost of maintaining an ICE. An oil change is an oil change but the (typically) smaller hybrid engines require less oil. Fewer miles on the gas engine of a PHEV means less frequent oil changes. Regenerative braking means you may never need to perform brake work on a hybrid. Smaller 12V batteries with less stress means you may never need to replace one. Nothing about a hybrid requires more maintenance and many items require less (or less expensive) maintenance. Quote:
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I don't know that recycling lithium batteries (those materials are in short supply after all) will pollute the aquifer more than disposing of the acid or lead from a 12V car battery. I do know that I've had to replace the 12V batteries in most of my vehicles (though not hybrids) but I have yet to hear someone say they needed to replace the lithium batteries in their EV or electric cart. |
Hydrogen-powered vehicles are likely the future of transportation fuel.
EVs are nothing but a fad supported by government subsidies. Sooner or later, the free market will decide what is best. |
Lead-acid batteries from autos are not “disposed of”. They are nearly 100% recycled; virtually everything is reclaimed.
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Duke Energy encourages EV’s. They just started a new program that they will reimburse you (by a check) for up to $850 to install your 220 plug in the garage for charging your EV. My total bill for install was $875, so Duke paid all but $25. Obviously, with that perk they are encouraging EV’s.
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Same car, one ev and one ice, the ev costs about $10k more to buy.
If I save $1000 a year in fuel costs, it will take me 10 years to break even. Then I have the EV hassles to deal with. It is a losing proposition if being done for the money savings. Many live the tech Eva come with and how quiet they are. Those age good reasons, money savings is not. |
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But yeah, price matters. We looked at a particular Toyota that came in ICE, HEV, and PHEV. ICE and HEV are considerations for us but not the PHEV due to the added price. We calculated we don't make enough short trips to realize any savings from the plug-in feature. But, we'll have to see what it looks like in '26 or '27 when we're ready to buy. |
What air conditioner did you get and what was the ton?
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My apologies, I can't seem to align my questions to the intended response. But I am interested in the new AC unit which has a remarkable efficiency.
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Otherwise, the charger will be installed one way or another whether there is a rebate or not and Duke is only eating into their profits by sending the customer an $800 check. Plus, Duke also offers $7.50/month if the customer charges within certain hours. But yeah, Duke is out to make money so there is something in it for them. Maybe a $1,000 credit from the Govt for providing an EV program where they pass 80% along to the customer and keep 20% for themselves. |
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Lol, I do not believe Duke, a public stock traded company, is out of the goodness of their heart installing 220 chargers for $25. per customer to take a loss and a beating in their profits which they need to explain to the stockholders. I hope Duke also donates millions to Tunnels to Towers yearly if they are that benevolent. |
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Power grid won't support it
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I'm sure that's probably older neighborhoods. |
I would never buy a house next to a gas station.
Yet my house charges my EV every night. |
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Not enough details to take the example seriously. To start, how many amps will each house pull to recharge? If you are using 120V charging (Level 1) then it could be about 10 amps; not a big deal. If is it 240V (Level 2) it could be as high as 48 amps. Depending on how many miles you drive per day, Level 1 could be sufficient. A house with 200 amp service would probably not have an issue with Level 2 charging. A house with 100 amp service could have an issue. Details matter.
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Did the installer put in a 40, 50, or 60 amp breaker? Did you put in a Tesla wall charger or a NEMA 14-50 outlet and use the Mobile charger? Any thoughts on whichever way you went? Thanks.
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Why? The charging kit that comes with a Tesla includes both a regular 110v standard plug and a NEMA 14-50 plug like you would have on an electric dryer. This installation was done UpNorth, where the conduit had to be run from the electrical panel in the basement on the other side of the house. In the event we ever had 2 EVs, the larger conduit would accommodate an additional circuit which the 3/4" would not. The additional expense of 1" was not much. Same with the larger breaker. I didn't feel like spending $500 for the Tesla wall charger as it didn't really do much more than the 14-50 except look prettier. When I'm in FL, I use a standard 110v outlet to charge overnight and I only have to do it maybe once a week. I just don't use much juice going to different rec centers and the grocery store. |
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