Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   Solo Agers (single & no kids)--how are you planning for live in your 80's & beyond? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/solo-agers-single-no-kids-how-you-planning-live-your-80s-beyond-347566/)

LuvNH 02-12-2024 04:27 PM
I am surprised there are not more small businesses, perhaps through accountants, to do that. It basically boils down to needing an honest bookkeeper. (I know an accountant who does this for a few people, but she is ready to retire and is long past retirement age herself.)

One para stood out to me Boomer. This one above. I believe our litigious society would inhibit almost anyone from taking on that responsibility. A law suit of this nature could wipe you out.

margaretmattson 02-12-2024 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyD (Post 2300190)
As MightyDog wrote above, there are only a handful of options available for solo agers in their latter years, and we all know what they are.

If you don't have much money, you'll age in place until you can't any longer, and then at some point some governmental agency will get involved and you'll likely be moved (possibly against your will) to some kind of care facility. If you don't have assets you'll be sent to a facility which accepts medicaid, and the care / quality of life there will likely leave a lot to be desired.

If you've got substantial assets (this probably applies to the majority of Villagers) then you've got options:

You can hire an agency or individual(s) to come to your home and take care of you so you can "age (and die....) in place"

If you've got a long term care policy (good ones are increasingly difficult to find, definitely read the fine print!) or can self-pay, then you can go the CCRC route (CCRC = Continuing Care Retirement Facility), where you start off in an Independent or Assisted Living facility, and the move to a memory facility and/or nursing home as your needs change.

But there is a very important missing element in both options above, namely that you really REALLY need to have someone you trust who is both WILLING and ABLE to help manage your health care & finances.

Paying bills & managing finances is not something that the staff or management at any continuing care facility should, can, or will do for you. And even in the best of facilities, you still need to have someone "watching those" who are watching over you and to help manage your care.

I'm aware that this is a stressful topic for some (myself included!) and that there are no "perfect" solutions. But having a plan is vastly better than "no plan at all"...which really is a plan as well...just not a very good one.

I very well may feel differently 20-30 years from now, but at present I have no desire to live out my last years in a traditional assisted living facility or nursing home. As I wrote in a post above, a small part of me does think that robotic help may be a very real possibility in the not-too-distant future.

Other ideas I have:

I've traveled quite extensively, and other countries & cultures treat the elderly very differently than we do here in the United States & most westernized cultures. The elderly are practically revered in Asian cultures, and generally treated very well in latino/hispanic countries as well. If I do decide to go the Assisted Living / Nursing Home route, since I don't have children or close relatives I can rely one, I may choose to relocate overseas. I would be surprised if one couldn't get a MUCH higher level of care for significantly less money in countries like the Philippines, Malaysia, Mexico, Panama, etc..

I'm "quantity sufficient" in terms of money & own some valuable real estate; assuming I still have considerable assets left whenever it is that I need help, perhaps I can find a local family to "adopt a Grandfather" in exchange for putting them in my will and leaving them my assets when I die?

Join a kibbutz or commune?

Death with dignity? Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but personally I have no problem with someone terminally ill or who is in the last few years of life who decides to end their life on their own terms.

I am very aware that all the plans I've described above real risks. But if a person doesn't have younger friends or family members who they a) TRUST, b) who are WILLING , and c) ABLE to help you, there is no perfect plan--you have to come up with the best "imperfect" plan you can.

Since I don't have children, all I can do is come up with the best plan I can and "hope for the best". But I'm certain that having no plan is the worst plan of all.

My motivation in making this post was hoping that others older than myself who are currently living out this reality would chime in with their thoughts, opinions, and experiences.
Before looking "overseas", look at programs each STATE offers for seniors. We plan to move to Pennsylvania because it provides seniors with everything we would want. Florida is one of the WORST states to age.

AMB444 02-12-2024 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretmattson (Post 2300444)
Before looking "overseas", look at programs each STATE offers for seniors. We plan to move to Pennsylvania because it provides seniors with everything we would want. Florida is one of the WORST states to age.
Thanks for your comment. Can you give links/ideas on how to research this? I'm very new to some of this information.

Thank you!

retiredguy123 02-12-2024 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2300435)
I am surprised there are not more small businesses, perhaps through accountants, to do that. It basically boils down to needing an honest bookkeeper. (I know an accountant who does this for a few people, but she is ready to retire and is long past retirement age herself.)

One para stood out to me Boomer. This one above. I believe our litigious society would inhibit almost anyone from taking on that responsibility. A law suit of this nature could wipe you out.
That is what my estate attorney, who prepared my will, told me. She had zero recommendations for someone to manage finances and bill paying for an elderly person. The potential liability was so much of a risk that no reputable professional would do it. Of course, you could probably find a scammer to do it.

MightyDog 02-12-2024 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2300435)
I am surprised there are not more small businesses, perhaps through accountants, to do that. It basically boils down to needing an honest bookkeeper. (I know an accountant who does this for a few people, but she is ready to retire and is long past retirement age herself.)

One para stood out to me Boomer. This one above. I believe our litigious society would inhibit almost anyone from taking on that responsibility. A law suit of this nature could wipe you out.
No, no...it's totally doable.
1) The first line for preventing any problems or discrepancies is to conduct the affairs legitimately of the people who are paying you to handle things for them. If so, then, what lawsuit? What's there to sue about?
2) Set yourself up in a LLC (Limited Liability Company), if permitted in the state where services would be rendered for that kind of work.
3) You create a contract with the people you're working for that defines the parameters and limitations of the scope of work being performed. Add an oversight aspect to it....like a family member or attorney who has to get a monthly accounting and description of work performed, etc.

I could do that kind of work and , likely, be pretty good at it. But, I'm already quite busy and probably wouldn't have the patience. That's my Achilles heel. :duck:

retiredguy123 02-12-2024 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by margaretmattson (Post 2300444)
Before looking "overseas", look at programs each STATE offers for seniors. We plan to move to Pennsylvania because it provides seniors with everything we would want. Florida is one of the WORST states to age.
Are there state programs available to all seniors or just those with low incomes?

Boomer 02-12-2024 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2300435)
I am surprised there are not more small businesses, perhaps through accountants, to do that. It basically boils down to needing an honest bookkeeper. (I know an accountant who does this for a few people, but she is ready to retire and is long past retirement age herself.)

One para stood out to me Boomer. This one above. I believe our litigious society would inhibit almost anyone from taking on that responsibility. A law suit of this nature could wipe you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2300467)
That is what my estate attorney, who prepared my will, told me. She had zero recommendations for someone to manage finances and bill paying for an elderly person. The potential liability was so much of a risk that no reputable professional would do it. Of course, you could probably find a scammer to do it.

Re. Your comments on my post: I completely understand the concern you are sharing. But I do think something like this could/should be available.

Of course, it should not be someone hired willy-nilly. It would have to be under a professional, reputable business or law practice, which could protect both sides.

I was telling Mr. Boomer about this thread, and he told me that a couple we knew well, who have since died, had bill paying done by their eldercare attorney’s office. The particular attorney worked for them at one of the best CCRCs in the city. That is where they lived. It was not in Florida though. Both the CCRC and the attorney have excellent reputations.

Aging parents sometimes put a responsible heir’s name on just a checking account to keep up with the bills, so why couldn’t that be done through an attorney or accounting office. It could be set up where the person doing the bookkeeping would not need access to the POA or to all the money which would limit exposure to liability. . .I guess. :)

This could work best by starting it before you really need it, so you could be your own watchdog.

But, like I said, this would not be someone to hire willy-nilly, even without the POA.

Boomer

PS: And, of course, retiredguy123, no scammers allowed. But I know what you mean. It could be open-season if it fell into the wrong hands.

Randall55 02-13-2024 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2300471)
Are there state programs available to all seniors or just those with low incomes?
We are not low income. We researched what was available in a few states and chose Pennsylvania, as do many of our friends in the Villages. A few years back, my 98-year-old aunt (PA resident) needed to go to assisted living. The care she received was remarkable. When she died, one year later, her heirs inherited quite a chunk of money which was her final wish. The nursing home did not rip her off nor did they request the heirs to pay exorbitant bills. They asked them to remove her belongings, each accounted for even an expensive diamond ring, and nothing more.

Our relatives and friends glow because of the care their family members are receiving there.They are thrilled their loved ones are treated with kindness and compassion. Not one of them was burdened by large medical bills when the loved one passed.

Do some research BEFORE it is time. I believe you will find quality care somewhere in the USA. Unfortunately, that place is NOT FLORIDA. In Pennsylvania, lottery funds go to the aged. The state uses those funds, wisely. In Florida, the funds are used for schools. Not much help to us. Our neighbors told us Ohio and Michigan offer great programs for seniors, as well. Yes, we talk openly about these issues. Sometimes, during our "HILARIOUS" two o'clock driveway parties. :)

It's great to have a network of friends who care.

LuvNH 02-14-2024 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMB444 (Post 2300464)
Thanks for your comment. Can you give links/ideas on how to research this? I'm very new to some of this information.

Thank you!
Start with this caring.com and then search for anything about senior retirement living, best places to retire, etc. etc. I like the caring.com because it gives you information such as transportation, hospitals, cost of home care and nursing homes etc. etc.

PersonOfInterest 02-17-2024 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2300467)
That is what my estate attorney, who prepared my will, told me. She had zero recommendations for someone to manage finances and bill paying for an elderly person. The potential liability was so much of a risk that no reputable professional would do it. Of course, you could probably find a scammer to do it.
Hiring an accountant / bookkeeper to handle bill paying should not be that difficult. Accounting / Bookkeeping firms regularly handle Accounts Payable for small businesses without issue. There is really no liability issue with this situation. It is a business arrangement just like that between the Accounting firm and a business contracting for that service. There are different levels of control to which the service can be tailored. There should be many CPA or Enrolled Agent firms as well as bookkeeping service firms who would be available to provide this service.

retiredguy123 02-17-2024 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonOfInterest (Post 2301890)
Hiring an accountant / bookkeeper to handle bill paying should not be that difficult. Accounting / Bookkeeping firms regularly handle Accounts Payable for small businesses without issue. There is really no liability issue with this situation. It is a business arrangement just like that between the Accounting firm and a business contracting for that service. There are different levels of control to which the service can be tailored. There should be many CPA or Enrolled Agent firms as well as bookkeeping service firms who would be available to provide this service.
The issue of liability is if the bookkeeper or CPA is managing a person's money who is mentally incapacitated. They need to make financial decisions that could be challenged by family members, a court, or another entity. That is why it is important to simplify your finances as much as possible before you become incapacitated. I asked several attorneys if they provided this service, and every one said no, and that they could not recommend anyone.

Caymus 02-17-2024 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2301958)
The issue of liability is if the bookkeeper or CPA is managing a person's money who is mentally incapacitated. They need to make financial decisions that could be challenged by family members, a court, or another entity. That is why it is important to simplify your finances as much as possible before you become incapacitated. I asked several attorneys if they provided this service, and every one said no, and that they could not recommend anyone.
At least on the money management side isn't this one of the (few) times that annuities are a good option?

Boomer 02-17-2024 10:23 AM
Realistically speaking, TV might not be the best place to age in place. I think Freedom Pointe is still the only CCRC in the area. The lack of CCRCs limits choice and the ratio of aging people to facilities could become an issue.

If looking ahead to the need for more care, the Medicare site now gives a lot of detail at medicare.gov — When using the site, you have to look under nursing homes because there is no category for CCRCs, but it does tell you in the details given.

I have a friend living in an area of SC which is rather rural. He moved there from his northern state years ago because he wanted warm weather. He now is finding as he ages that the place he has called home since he was in his 60s is not an easy place to be should he need extra help or care. He is now pushing 80.

He came to Florida to visit a place called Shell Point which is in Ft. Myers. He liked it but has not done anything about it.

I have no personal knowledge of Shell Point. I do know it is a CCRC and a non-profit. Their website is detailed and impressive. Their nursing home section is rated on the Medicare site under Larsen Health Center. They use the term Lifecare in their marketing copy and it looks like they’ve got it all covered.

Another friend of mine who is in her 60s and in good health sold her house after she was widowed and moved into the independent living part of a non-profit CCRC in Ohio. She has a villa with a garage, very nice. The way those things work is that it costs you an upfront fee to get in and there is a monthly fee that can go up, but once your finances are looked at and you are considered to be solvent enough for their actuaries, your future is in place. She said she decided to move to a CCRC sooner rather than later because it feels like she now has a long term care policy — sort of.

Some CCRCs will refund a part of the entry fee under certain circumstances.

As I understand it, a for-profit can kick you out if you run out of money, but the non-profits do not come with that kind of risk — once they know you are in good financial shape before they take you in. Even if it is a 501(c)(3), you need to find out how solid they are, including their endowment. Some of the more established 501(c)(3)s have significant endowments. Also, learn about how their skilled nursing part is doing. It can be better if their employees are their own and not all agency. Check the turnover.

The point of my dissertation this morning is that maybe Shell Point, a CCRC in Ft. Myers, is worth researching, at least on their detailed website, and then could be worth a road trip to check it out.

Boomer

PersonOfInterest 02-17-2024 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2301958)
The issue of liability is if the bookkeeper or CPA is managing a person's money who is mentally incapacitated. They need to make financial decisions that could be challenged by family members, a court, or another entity. That is why it is important to simplify your finances as much as possible before you become incapacitated. I asked several attorneys if they provided this service, and every one said no, and that they could not recommend anyone.
There should be no financial decisions by the bookkeeper / accountant. It is simply a bill paying service. If the person was or becomes mentally incapacitated then someone else should be stepping in to make decisions which would include management of the contract for the bill paying service.

OrangeBlossomBaby 02-17-2024 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 2299583)
Not much different than DINK’s (duel income no kids) once a spouse passes on your own. Two of three kids are in that category no kids. Both have a good advisor, and have planned for the what if.
The question I believe was "what ARE those plans?"

If you're mostly independent, but need a little help with housecleaning, cooking, maybe you can't drive anymore but can walk with a cane or walker and can dress yourself and do your bathroom stuff without help - what are the plans?

If you're living on social security - what are your plans? What do you do? How do you do it? Or who does it for you?

Slainte 02-18-2024 08:39 AM
Solo Agers
 
Do a Financial & Medical Power of Attorney; put Pay on Death designees on your bank acts; do a Transfer on Death/beneficiary listing on investments; check annually that correct beneficiaries are listed for ins., Pensions, IRAs,; do an enhanced Lady Bird deed on your real estate, and if you are not comfortable with your agent/s on POAs, then do a Trust for your personal care & fund it & name a Trust Associate who will check Trustee’s decisions.
All docs can be amended to change chosen Agents/Trustees as you progress.
Or, take life as it occurs.
There’s always surprises, no matter how much you plan.
Good friends are often wiser, know your needs better, and are less greedy than relatives.

patfla06 02-18-2024 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2299576)
In The Villages, I think Freedom Pointe is the best place to go, if you can afford it.
Beautiful place but $$$$$.

Boomer 02-19-2024 09:12 AM
Anyone reading this thread who is interested in knowing the details about what is available for care in the area might want to spend some time navigating the Medicare.gov site. That site gives a relatively in-depth report of the current state of things. (I posted about how to use this tool in post #53 in the second paragraph.)

The Medicare site rates only the healthcare part of the facilities, but it gives some overall details if the nursing part is part of a CCRC. For instance, Freedom Pointe is a for-profit LLC not a non-profit like some CCRCs are.

The reports, of course, can change from inspection to inspection, but by looking into what you could need before you need it, you will at least begin to know more, in case the time comes.

Boomer

LLJorgs 03-24-2024 02:07 PM
We scheduled an appointment with Pittman Law office (they also have a website with lots of educational info and videos). Our attorney Audra Platt was great and talked through lots of scenarios and options with us and put a trust plan in place to meet our needs. We then scheduled an appointment with Sabal Trust Company who were also great and talked through many scenarios and how their services can help manage many situations that concerned us also. Putting a plan in place had upfront costs, took time and work to complete but it was well worth it to have the peace of mind for the future. It ensures we have people in place to assist as we age and also handle the executor responsibilities when the time comes. You’ll still need to name someone as your healthcare surrogate to manage those decisions when needed, but that ask becomes a little easier when the other big items are taken care of by professionals. Hope this helps give a place to start.

OrangeBlossomBaby 03-24-2024 05:57 PM
If I'm the survivor of my husband, sister, and self, I plan on hiring someone to take care of me for as long as the money holds out. When I run out, the state can put me in a home, put me on drugs so I'm oblivious for however much longer I live, and then cremate me and toss my ashes in the trash.

As long as they can make it so I'm not aware of my miserable surroundings if I get that bad off with no family to care on my behalf, I don't care.

Shipping up to Boston 03-24-2024 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyD (Post 2299553)
I (along with a sibling) have been caring for my elderly parents (both late 80's) for the past seven years. While both parents are in reasonably good health for their age, neither can live independently, and were it not for us, both would be (at a minimum) in assisted living facility.

Over the past two years both my mother & father have had illnesses / accidents (falls) which resulted in them being hospitalized. My father was in a local hospital for nearly two weeks, and while the treatment / care he received there was adequate, I shudder to think what his experience would have been like had I not been there daily to manage / advocate for his medical care.

I'm in my 50's, single with no children, and while my "elderly years" are still decades away, this experience of helping my parents has really got me wondering how I'm going to manage the last 10-15 years of my life.

Lots of people mention CCRC's (Continuing Care Retirement Communities), but they won't sit with you at doctor's appointments, help you pay bills, manage your finances, etc..

For those of you who are single with no children:

If you are in the last decade or so of life, how are you doing it? Any tips or warnings?

For those of you in your 60's & 70's, what are your plans for when you aren't able to live independently & need help?
Admirable that you and your sibling have stepped up on behalf of your parents. That’s dignity for them.
All I can offer since we’re in the same demo is make sure you draft your living will, estate etc and file it at probate. Everybody’s situation is different but should you ever become incapacitated, since you stated you have no spouse/children, you want to make sure your wishes are documented, respected and followed.


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