Not to the average citizen. And I will believe THAT when I see it. My information came from Dr. Michael Olsterholm, a true medical expert in infectious disease, as opposed to Dr. Atlas, a lightweight radiologist.

I know, I couldn't find a picture of an in bedded chip. Anyway that barcode pic is more dramatic I think. :)

I don't wear a mask now.
 

Herd Immunity & Darwin's Natural Selection is nature's solution. Its not nice to fool Mother Nature!

Thank you! For months they have been saying the vaccine wouldn't be available to the general population right away at the earliest would be 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2021. The order is to be (as of now) first responders, long term facility residents, high risk and then general.

I think Pink’s bar code is cool; or above the ankle.

It was actually a book first. The irony of fiction :)

This is very tricky to extrapolate my future behavior based on a public relations report. For starters, the 90% figure is in people who volunteered to be in a vaccine study. It is of course the best you can do and thank you to those that volunteered. But perhaps those kind of people are believers in science and care about community thus they are willing to take some personal risk to get answers for others. That kind of person might be more likely to be a mask wearing or a hand washers or a stay at home and social distance person. The correct conclusion might be that the vaccine is 90% effective in people who significantly lowered their risk.

That may not apply to people who don't lower their risk thus have higher viral exposure. Time will tell. We also do not have any long term data on protection but hopefully that data will be reported before the vaccine is widely available. And an important point. While the CDC now says that mask wearing not only reduces the likelihood of me spreading my Covid to you, it also does help protect me from your Covid.

If the vaccine protects against clinical disease, that's great. There is not any reported data, nor anything in the protocol that will provide an answer, on whether it protects against subclinical disease. In other words if I get the shots might I still be likely to be contagious to others when I am exposed even though I am not "sick"? This question could only be answered by doing regular Covid screening in the study groups. It was not done.

My answer to the OP's question is I don't know. There is not enough data available for a reasonable person to make an informed choice. But I can tell you that my decision will be based on science and on my belief that I am responsible not only for my own health but that I have a moral obligation to protect yours as well.

We will see how vaccine works for Joe. I think I will take my chances at the back of the line. Watch out for world control.

Thank you for a rational well thought out post.

I see mask wearing as an act of hygiene, like using toilet paper.

As the saying goes, people are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts. People don't have the "right" do do whatever they want when it comes to public health issues.

From another mask thread, someone posted:

"While I will always agree that unchecked and unlimited government overreach is a threat to our liberty, there is precedent as well as a moral obligation for it to protect its citizenry from present danger. In particular, danger from other, uncaring and self centered citizens common in a free society founded on doing what is best for ourselves as individuals. Car insurance is a good example as are seat belt laws or wearing clothing. It has been argued especially by people who love to argue, that despite the obvious protections these provide , they are government overreach. Like masks, seatbelt safety was argued and often protested and still is to a lesser degree. Confirmation bias can be so stubborn in some people that it takes the experience of being ejected from a vehicle to accept the obvious albeit too late to make use of the wisdom. Refuting the obvious and stubbornness about simply wearing a mask is fun for people who love to argue. When pressed, would they send a loved one (which may only be themselves) into a room with a Covid patient without a mask? I doubt it very much. The truth is that not even stubborn, argumentative guardians of freedom can tell if someone in a restaurant has Covid. No disrespect and in good company, Ben Franklin once argued against vaccines until he lost a son to Small Pox."

Even though I don't necessarily agree with all that he said, it's a pretty good post overall, UNTIL.......the last line. Edward Jenner started his smallpox vaccine trials in 1796, Ben Franklin died in 1790

There was experimental smallpox inoculation the early 1700's and Franklin's son died in 1735. Franklin, in his autobiography, lamented not having his son inoculated.

Didn't know that. But I think we can assume that the early 1700's vaccine wasn't too effective

According to this, no one died from Covid yesterday or the day before from Covid-19 in Sumter County. Only COUNTY statistics are available.

coronavirus deaths sumter county florida - Bing

Me and mine will get the vaccine as soon as it is offered. Most of us will. It has nothing to do with political leanings.

Can't everyone tell by these responses that there will NEVER be agreement on this ever. No about of somebody's facts, propaganda, Agency Directives, Forum Experts, etc.

Some will wear masks until they die, Some will stop at some point and some will NEVER wear masks. Those are the 3 options. Why discuss it further. No one is going to change anyone's mind. Just like most everything in TODAYS World. It is just arguing not debating.

Reminds me of the controversy over seat belt wear. When seat belts were installed in passenger cars in the late fifties it was believed better to be thrown out through the windshield in a crash rather than trapped in the burning car. That’s what made seat belt wear mandatory.
Here in the US we’ll probably see people go back to the “no mask” mode after the vaccine has been widely distributed. If you look at historic video of Asian countries most people wear a mask during the Flu season vs none in the US. A cultural thing with the acceptance of death or serious illness for yourself or others as secondary.

From what I read, it wasn't a vaccine, it was an inoculation - scratch the skin surface, and place some actual live smallpox there.

Yes, they still used the scratch and later scab technique sometime ago in Europe. I still have the upper arm scar to prove it.

Food for thought - Heard on the evening news tonight:
"At this point it is a sign of disrespect not to wear a mask".

The German laboratory was a research establishment and did not have the finance or know how to run the large trials required to prove vaccine worked, or the production line required to meet demand if the trials were successful.
Hence their partneship with Pfizer who had the money and knowhow to take the research forward.
Turkish husband and wife partnership Özlem Türeci and Ugur Sahin and their company BioNTech were the originators of the vaccine.

It has always been a sign of disrespect. Nothing new.

:agree:

according to which one of 387,000 Results?

here's one on page 10 of your search results:

Coronavirus in Florida: Over 4,000 cases in state, 56 deaths | WFLA


of course that was from March 28, but hey bing search results for the win, right?

Do you have one to show that you have been vaccinated for the measles, mumps, pox, etc?

When I was young back in the day we were taught to remember our veterans on Veteran’s day for their sacrifice , whether they were drafted or enlisted. They were willing to sacrifice their lives even unto death for the lives of other Americans –we called that patriotism. Today we are faced with some of us that are not willing to sacrifice a little and wear a mask for the safety of our fellow Americans. Where has our patriotism gone.
We need More LOVE for America --Which translates More LOVE toward all Americans

George Grafer

Veterans Day & Masks
 

When I was young back in the day we were taught to remember our veterans on Veteran’s day for their sacrifice , whether they were drafted or enlisted. They were willing to sacrifice their lives even unto death for the lives of other Americans –we called that patriotism. Today we are faced with some of us that are not willing to sacrifice a little and wear a mask for the safety of our fellow Americans. Where has our patriotism gone.
We need More LOVE for America --Which translates More LOVE toward all Americans

George Grafer

Just for the sake of argument...

At other times it is said that veterans and patriots died to protect the freedoms we enjoy as Americans. Some might suggest that mask mandates and mask shaming are threats to those freedoms.

Can some one tell me how to post a new tread? I can't seem to find the button.

THX

Yep, some will cry patriotism and the Constitution only when it suites their own purpose

So let me understand this, some people are willing to serve in the military and risk their lives for fellow Americans but refuse to wear a mask to protect those same people?

freedoms
 

I suppose we all look at things differently. I rather enjoy the freedom of going into a restaurant and not having smoke all around me. Maybe that's because I am a cancer survivor. I enjoy the freedom of having my children go to school I knowing that the other children have been vaccinated so that I do not have to worry about my children coming home with a disease. I enjoy the freedom that everybody needs a drivers license to drive a car and I can rest assured that they have passed the test. Back in the day we did not need seat belts but now we do. I guess that law is to protect ourselves. The same goes for motorcycle helmets. Most states require them now.
George

In every one of those cases you mention, a law was passed to take away your/my/someone's freedom to make a choice. And, at least a few of those cases were very controversial because it was acknowledged that a freedom was being taken away.

Be careful cheering for your "freedoms" that come at a price for someone else. Tomorrow someone else might be cheering for a "freedom" that costs you.

All those States with Covid Surges were told to wear Masks. Still had surge. So no matter if not enough wore masks that is what happened and nothing that is presented, claimed or discussed (over and over and over) is going to change mask wearing adherence. (NO, not even a National Mandate). It is what it is NOW. You wear your mask and that is all YOU can do.

NCAA Football Teams live in a BUBBLE. Coaches wear masks (well not really) but most all the Teams still get Covid. Most games are being cancelled or rescheduled.

The GREAT RESET is testing to see how many will obey mask wearing, how many obey Global Warming, Election Results, How many obey Facebook, Twitter and Media Propaganda, etc. They have something in the works for the hard cases that still have not obeyed coming. Say Hello to GLOBALISM.

I'll suggest that driving freely without the burden of responsibility to prevent my vehicle from ramming into yours, is a freedom that has been taken away from me.

I'll suggest that being able to sneeze on the back of your head without covering my mouth, because I don't feel like raising my hand or backing away from you first, is a freedom being threatened.

I'll suggest that being able to go into your house at 3AM and raid your refrigerator just because I learned you might have something edible in it is a freedom you would probably deny me.

I'll also suggest that after I'm done nomming on your food, that if were to sleep on your lanai, you probably would want to deny that freedom to me.

Freedom of assembly and all that. I feel like assembling in front of your driveway today. Sorry if you can't get out to do your grocery shopping but hey - public roads and all that, right?

Or -

is it possible that with freedoms come responsibilities?

Nahhhhhh that can't possibly be true. Can it?

Sophistry.

Those diseases did not cause a global pandemic and were not deadly like the virus that causes Covid-19. As a child, I had measles, mumps and chicken pox. I did not receive vaccinations so, no, I didn't get a button.

On the new version of this forum, the "button" to start a new thread is on the left side of the page towards the top. It is dark read with white text that says, "Post New Thread".

Had to look that one up. Reading this forum can be such an education. Thanks.

Seriously, the freedom not to wear masks, socks and what else? I can tell you for sure my cousins didn’t risk their lives for you to have the right not to wear socks.