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-   -   Confederate Flag (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/confederate-flag-156280/)

Guest 06-21-2015 09:35 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077058)
Just FYI regarding the flag and the KKK -

The Real Flag Of The Ku Klux Klan - KKK

Don't know anything about this site or KKK for that matter, just googled "the flag of the KKK" and this is one of articles I found.

Just now found this - Ku Klux Klan (U.S. organization)

Once again, by no means am I a promoter of any kind for this organization, but I do hate disinformation!

Well, you are spreading disinformation.
If you use photos from the 1920's you will see American flags. If you look at Klan activities from the 1960's forward you will see CSA flags in far greater number. Even on the website you linked, look at only color photo which is the only one taken in the last 60 years. Proudly hanging next to the USA flag is the CSA flag. The B&W photo here is from a Klan march in the 1980's in NC. The other is from your linked website and undated.
And if you really don't understand the close connection of the KKK to the Confederate flag I offer a google image search for you using KKK rally
https://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+...h&q=kkk+rally+

Guest 06-21-2015 09:35 AM

With some research we see that the flag of the CSA is not the same flag as is commonly associated with the Confederacy. The design used on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was never officially recognized as one of the national flags. It was rejected as a national flag in 1861.

Guest 06-21-2015 10:25 AM

It's a battle flag, not a national flag. It represents all who died in the civil war

Guest 06-21-2015 10:33 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077099)
With some research we see that the flag of the CSA is not the same flag as is commonly associated with the Confederacy. The design used on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was never officially recognized as one of the national flags. It was rejected as a national flag in 1861.

IF you go back and look at the first post, the OP states the flag is the confederate battle flag. Yes, it is a point that ALL the GOP candidates must address during this campaign. Yes, the KKK does use that sign of white supremacy along with the American flag.

Is the Nazi swastika allowed to fly anywhere in Germany? NO!

The confederate battle flag is comparable to the Nazi swastika. The KKK and the Nazis have much in common such as white supremacy.

Guest 06-21-2015 10:35 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077122)
It's a battle flag, not a national flag. It represents all who died in the civil war

The Nazi swastika flag represents those who died in WWII. It is outlawed in Germany.

Guest 06-21-2015 10:35 AM

how very amusing.....a minority (not race) special interest group attempting to take to task another minority (not race here either) special interest group.

And some so brazen as to claim they have the majority to back their position.

Let's just agree to disagree. The confederate flag was not designed or intended to represent racism. In recent years, once again, special interest groups have been continuing to categorize a subject to fit their cause.

Think about the future of the Americam flag. At what point will it be determined by the majority....that would no longer be US.....to represent a whiteness that prohibeted people of color from being Americans......or something like that.

No? I would not bet against it given the trend of changing and redefining going on in America today.

Guest 06-21-2015 10:42 AM

It is the flag adopted by the segregationist of the KKK and others to represent their beliefs. It doesn't matter one whit whether it was a flag of Northern Virginia or a squadron of dung beetles. It is now a very clear symbol of the desire to reassert white domination of this country and that blacks are an inferior species. I don't need history lessons, I am very well versed in history. Flags mean what the users of those flags represent. It is no accident that Roof had the Rhodesian flag on his clothes. He was not honoring the sacrifices of Mr Rhodes, he was honoring its modern association with the racist view of the world he shared. We don't represent the dead of Nazi Germany by flying the Nazi flag. We don't even represent the dead of the Union soldiers, or the WW I soldiers by displaying the flag under which they fought. We use the modern USA flag. So stop the excuse based on what the flag might have meant in 1862. It now means segregation, racism, bigotry to all those with any degree of decency. Even the very conservative state of Texas understood the meaning of that flag. And every time that CSA flag is held high above a white sheet, above a Nazi salute, its modern day meaning is made ever clearer

Guest 06-21-2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077127)
how very amusing.....a minority (not race) special interest group attempting to take to task another minority (not race here either) special interest group.

And some so brazen as to claim they have the majority to back their position.

Let's just agree to disagree. The confederate flag was not designed or intended to represent racism. In recent years, once again, special interest groups have been continuing to categorize a subject to fit their cause.

Think about the future of the Americam flag. At what point will it be determined by the majority....that would no longer be US.....to represent a whiteness that prohibeted people of color from being Americans......or something like that.

No? I would not bet against it given the trend of changing and redefining going on in America today.

No, I WILL NOT agree to disagree with you. You are WRONG. The confederate flag was part of the slaveholding South which is the epitomy of racism.

As for the second part of your statement - ignorant.

Guest 06-21-2015 11:08 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077132)
It is the flag adopted by the segregationist of the KKK and others to represent their beliefs. It doesn't matter one whit whether it was a flag of Northern Virginia or a squadron of dung beetles. It is now a very clear symbol of the desire to reassert white domination of this country and that blacks are an inferior species. I don't need history lessons, I am very well versed in history. Flags mean what the users of those flags represent. It is no accident that Roof had the Rhodesian flag on his clothes. He was not honoring the sacrifices of Mr Rhodes, he was honoring its modern association with the racist view of the world he shared. We don't represent the dead of Nazi Germany by flying the Nazi flag. We don't even represent the dead of the Union soldiers, or the WW I soldiers by displaying the flag under which they fought. We use the modern USA flag. So stop the excuse based on what the flag might have meant in 1862. It now means segregation, racism, bigotry to all those with any degree of decency. Even the very conservative state of Texas understood the meaning of that flag. And every time that CSA flag is held high above a white sheet, above a Nazi salute, its modern day meaning is made ever clearer



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/20/us...e-iphone-share


So good and so true. South Carolinians love this flag so much that it will take a super-majority vote in both the house and senate to make any changes, unless of course they change the law requiring a super-majority. Changing the law would only require a simple majority.

The only optimistic caveat towards removing the flag is South Carolina's changing demographics and the business community.

Guest 06-21-2015 11:12 AM

Once again, the point is made that no back and forth dialogue can be had on some of these threads. You try to post links as simply examples and posters take them out of context. My point in posting was not to say that I know it all, or to prove this one or that wrong, but to just get people to think about intentions instead of assumptions. It was my mistaken notion that anyone here would want dialogue that may bring understanding. Apparently the only important thing to some is to push their agenda. So go at it - I've got better things to do.

Guest 06-21-2015 11:28 AM

How about a lol. I don't know how to do it, but I would bet the results of it would be to remove it.

Guest 06-21-2015 11:28 AM

Lol, that lol above was supposed to read poll.

Guest 06-21-2015 01:17 PM

I believe you will find that the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people just as does the American Flag, the Christian Cross, a pro ball's team logo, etc. and this debate all ends up being someone's opinion.

The issue to me is First Amendment rights to free speech, etc. and I believe that it is important no matter how one feels to allow a person, a state to make that choice. We have groups like Freedom From Religion and the ACLU making a concerted effort to remove religion from America because they say it offends some people but the essence of free speech is that you are going to offend somebody but only when those offending move to the next levels does it matter.

A KKK member who verbally espouses his belief exercises his First Amendment rights and those who opposed that idea express their contempt to this KKKer beliefs. It is not a problem unless either of these groups carries this belief to a higher and more invasive level

I am not concerned that South Carolina chooses to fly the Confederate Flag because it is clear that black Americans are not interfered with in any respect in this state.

What gauls me most is that this issue is really being used as a political stunt for the politically ambitious

We have many problems to be resolved in this country and this dispute over a flag is just plain silly

Personal Best Regards:

Guest 06-21-2015 01:38 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077228)
I believe you will find that the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people just as does the American Flag, the Christian Cross, a pro ball's team logo, etc. and this debate all ends up being someone's opinion.

The issue to me is First Amendment rights to free speech, etc. and I believe that it is important no matter how one feels to allow a person, a state to make that choice. We have groups like Freedom From Religion and the ACLU making a concerted effort to remove religion from America because they say it offends some people but the essence of free speech is that you are going to offend somebody but only when those offending move to the next levels does it matter.

A KKK member who verbally espouses his belief exercises his First Amendment rights and those who opposed that idea express their contempt to this KKKer beliefs. It is not a problem unless either of these groups carries this belief to a higher and more invasive level

I am not concerned that South Carolina chooses to fly the Confederate Flag because it is clear that black Americans are not interfered with in any respect in this state.

What gauls me most is that this issue is really being used as a political stunt for the politically ambitious

We have many problems to be resolved in this country and this dispute over a flag is just plain silly

Personal Best Regards:

you could not be more insensitive and more wrong if you tried. The ACLU of course has supported the first amendment more strongly than any right wing organization including HATE speech when that speech is made by private individuals. If you want to fly your CSA flag to proudly display your disdain for ongoing racism it is your 1st amendment right and the ACLU will come to your support.

As to your blatant ignorance of the ongoing racial issues in South Carolina I will only need to point out to you that the judge who has been handling this case for the government has been removed because in open court 10 years ago he referred to black Americans as *******. In open court on the record and he was allowed to continue to hear cases and judge black persons. Was that blind justice or blindingly racist beliefs being tolerated? And we may not have problem any greater than racism in this country. Keep your personal regards, they seem to be tainted and I don't need that stain on me.

Guest 06-21-2015 02:03 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1077228)
I believe you will find that the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people just as does the American Flag, the Christian Cross, a pro ball's team logo, etc. and this debate all ends up being someone's opinion.

The issue to me is First Amendment rights to free speech, etc. and I believe that it is important no matter how one feels to allow a person, a state to make that choice. We have groups like Freedom From Religion and the ACLU making a concerted effort to remove religion from America because they say it offends some people but the essence of free speech is that you are going to offend somebody but only when those offending move to the next levels does it matter.

A KKK member who verbally espouses his belief exercises his First Amendment rights and those who opposed that idea express their contempt to this KKKer beliefs. It is not a problem unless either of these groups carries this belief to a higher and more invasive level

I am not concerned that South Carolina chooses to fly the Confederate Flag because it is clear that black Americans are not interfered with in any respect in this state.

What gauls me most is that this issue is really being used as a political stunt for the politically ambitious

We have many problems to be resolved in this country and this dispute over a flag is just plain silly

Personal Best Regards:

I guess you throw in someone who is not running into the ambitious sector..... unless you consider Romney only a "stunt" man. His tweet speaks volumes. You should try Twitter sometime.

Mitt Romney*

✔@MittRomney

Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.

11:09 AM - 20 Jun 2015


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