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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Political talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/)
-   -   Occupy Wall Street Protester (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/occupy-wall-street-protester-44672/)

Guest 11-16-2011 07:23 PM
All of you anti OWS need to stop and think about what words you are using and what you call people. Words mean things and you are judging people you don't know. In fact, there is only one entity who can judge and it's not you.

The media skews news and depending on your political belief, it's easy to find a media that supports your belief. I'm assuming Fox is your news of choice. Of course, I don't watch Fox because it doesn't correlate with my beliefs. Yet to each our own because I don't judge.

I am a retiree who has an advanced degree. I'm in the 99% and live here in The Villages. I am not a druggie, hippie, yahoo, or doper. I do not smack my partner nor do I knock my partner to the ground. I don't have a little head (at least I don't think I do) nor am I wimpy or try to create chaos. I also do not consider myself part of a drama group.

I am well respected among my peers. I am a board member of a professional group club. I have grown children who are productive and successful. I have grandchildren whom are the sunshine in my life.

I may be your neighbor whom you socialize with and like...being unaware of my stance because I don't discuss it for fear of getting into a nasty debate and being judged.

Don't judge me because I believe in, support, and participate in OWS. In fact, I will be at LSL tomorrow night protesting. Come visit our group and talk to us. I may even hug you...because I don't judge you even if we disagree.

We are individuals who can believe however we want. I am not going to get nasty and call you names because I am on opposite sides. It's too bad all of us can't accept opposite points of view without putting nasty tags or words to each other.

Shame on you!

Guest 11-16-2011 07:27 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 418831)
All of you anti OWS need to stop and think about what words you are using and what you call people. Words mean things and you are judging people you don't know. In fact, there is only one entity who can judge and it's not you.

The media skews news and depending on your political belief, it's easy to find a media that supports your belief. I'm assuming Fox is your news of choice. Of course, I don't watch Fox because it doesn't correlate with my beliefs. Yet to each our own because I don't judge.

I am a retiree who has an advanced degree. I'm in the 99% and live here in The Villages. I am not a druggie, hippie, yahoo, or doper. I do not smack my partner nor do I knock my partner to the ground. I don't have a little head (at least I don't think I do) nor am I wimpy or try to create chaos. I also do not consider myself part of a drama group.

I am well respected among my peers. I am a board member of a professional group club. I have grown children who are productive and successful. I have grandchildren whom are the sunshine in my life.

I may be your neighbor whom you socialize with and like...being unaware of my stance because I don't discuss it for fear of getting into a nasty debate and being judged.

Don't judge me because I believe in, support, and participate in OWS. In fact, I will be at LSL tomorrow night protesting. Come visit our group and talk to us. I may even hug you...because I don't judge you even if we disagree.

We are individuals who can believe however we want. I am not going to get nasty and call you names because I am on opposite sides. It's too bad all of us can't accept opposite points of view without putting nasty tags or words to each other.

Shame on you!
These the guys you're defending flipflopz???? You kidding me???

People threatening to burn NYC to the ground???

Wake up and smell the anarchy!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilq_66LnRaw[/ame]

Guest 11-16-2011 09:50 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 418823)
This is my first post but my wife has been keeping me posted. We are one of the 99% that protest down at the square. She's been called a hippie, part of a drama group, whimpy, a doper and so on and so on. That's fine. You can call us whatever you want. The reality is, we're trying to make a statement on your behalf. I know, I know, most of you are republicans and conservative and don't like liberals. But, I'm thinking that most of you aren't in the 1% and probably not even in the 5%. If you are, good for you. If you're not, the republicans are looking to increase your medicare costs and cut your social security. You don't have to believe me, you can search on John Boehner quotes. Eric Cantor too. My wife and I happen to believe that the bottom 155 million people in America should have more than 2 1/2% of the nations wealth. We believe that 12% of American's shouldn't go to bed hungry every night. We happen to believe that in the richest country in the world that 1.5 million people are living on the streets. But, you can believe what you want to. This is America after all. I won't call you names. I'll just feel sorry for you and your lack of empathy for people who are struggling.
You do not represent me or any of my friends. Republicans are not against social security. You believe in wealth redistribution and I believe in wealth gained by working hard and saving and investing. You people are not America. The Tea Party is America.

Guest 11-17-2011 07:38 AM
Richie: Have you seen the video of the Berekley 'break up'? The one where the cop starts wailing on people with his club when they are just standing ther. Oh, and for good measure, he picks on the shortest woman in the line - a 4' 10" Asian student instead of the beefier males around her.

There's a LOT of blame to go around.

Guest 11-17-2011 09:10 AM
Partial List od Occupier's Crimes
 
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 418954)
Richie: Have you seen the video of the Berekley 'break up'? The one where the cop starts wailing on people with his club when they are just standing ther. Oh, and for good measure, he picks on the shortest woman in the line - a 4' 10" Asian student instead of the beefier males around her.

There's a LOT of blame to go around.

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33490

Guest 11-17-2011 09:17 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 418954)
Richie: Have you seen the video of the Berekley 'break up'? The one where the cop starts wailing on people with his club when they are just standing ther. Oh, and for good measure, he picks on the shortest woman in the line - a 4' 10" Asian student instead of the beefier males around her.

There's a LOT of blame to go around.
I won't blame the undermanned and crowd harassed police that are just trying to keep the peace in difficult circumstances. The only other outcome would be complete anarchy.

If I was a cop on the line and I was threatened I would immediately make my power known to make my antagonist think again about escalating the situation. I would make it clear that his head is the first one I crack open if he persists in fanning the flames.

The biggest danger to the keeping of the peace is for the police to show weakness.

You didn't mention the threat to burn down NYC, and Macy's in particular. Why?

Guest 11-18-2011 08:32 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 419005)
I won't blame the undermanned and crowd harassed police that are just trying to keep the peace in difficult circumstances. The only other outcome would be complete anarchy.

If I was a cop on the line and I was threatened I would immediately make my power known to make my antagonist think again about escalating the situation. I would make it clear that his head is the first one I crack open if he persists in fanning the flames.

The biggest danger to the keeping of the peace is for the police to show weakness.

You didn't mention the threat to burn down NYC, and Macy's in particular. Why?
To be fair, I only saw some of that yesterday - been a little busy here with deadlines at work (yes, I know, hard to imagine for someone who works for the government but today's my day off and I have a little more leisure time) and getting the contractors going to fix my house from the freak snowstorm a couple of weeks ago.

Again, it's the coverage. The "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality. With that number of protestors, you're going to find some hotheaded dipsticks who don't really know what they're talking about. I would equate them to the Tea Party factions that say things like "Show them your Second Ammendment solutions!".

Quite frankly, I find it more damaging to the OWS credibility to find out that the "committee" from Zucotti park was having meetings to try and decide on things like agendas, position statements, logistics, etc. Nothing wrong with that. But they were having this meeting IN THE ATRIUM LOBBY OF THE DEUTSCHE BANK BUILDING!!!! No problem in that, apparently, they were allowed there. But do they not see how that LOOKS????? It was just unbelievably ironic, IMO. And, of course, you didn't see it on the major news networks (as far as I could tell). I only knew about it because Jon Stewart had one of his people there interviewing the OWS folk.

And, in case you missed it, he made them look pretty bad at times - there's apparently some class-ism going on - or was until the breakup - and the park was rather segregated between the students and unemployed in one area and the "upper east side" types in another area.

The cop in Berkeley wasn't threatened. It's not like that place is a stranger to demonstrations. Personally I blame it on bad training. Whether you agree with the tactics or not - if you look at how the cops in NYC moved in and defended their positions, it was WAY different from the cops in Berekeley. To me it looked like the difference between amateurs and professionals.

Kind of like the Rodney King episode. Most people looked at that tape and saw cops beating a defenseless man. I looked at that and saw incompetent police officers who had no business wearing a badge. (Police departments all over the country are taught how to take down an unarmed suspect when you outnumber him 12-1 - one cop goes for each limb and they work together to get the guy in cuffs - you don't have 2 guys whipping and 10 more watching)

But "look at this shocking footage...." gets ratings.

Guest 11-18-2011 10:40 AM
I personally object to the notion of the 99%, because it is far, far, FAR from true. The sign toters trying to represent a majority certainly do not reflect me or most people I know.

99% is a smoke job....just like the media focusing on any of these gatherings and presenting them with any kind of credible representation.....they just are not.

It is news (some seem to think)....it is strictly political...the two added together = no real credibility.

Did I mention the 99% was an over blown position that is just not true?

btk

Guest 11-19-2011 03:31 PM
Bill: I have no trouble believing that there's a lot there at OWS that doesn't represent you.

But you *are* one of the 99% when it comes to the effects of things like obscene bailout and golden parachute packages, ever increasing drug costs to finance executive compensation, lobbyists from these same corporations buying influence that you could never hope to have access to.

It's not about confiscating wealth. It's far more about curbing the unbridled avarice that has become evident in our society.

We look at other countries and their high tax rates and laugh at them. It used to be that we could point to so many things that we had better than they did - but those things are going away. Look at the economies in Northern Europe. They have higher standards of living, better health care, lower unemployment, etc. It's damn scary when you look at it.

Have we spent so much time patting ourselves on the back for WWII that we forgot some of what GOT us to that lofty position?

Our infrastructure is falling apart, health care costs are going through the roof and have been for 20+ years, education is becoming optional (sometimes because we threw so much 'aid' at the problem and the prices just kept being hiked) - we are falling behind. The only thing it seems we're still #1 in is the stereotypical fatcats. What other country tolerates the behavior we do? The bank bailouts were just one part of it. At least with the bailout of GM and Chrysler, it helped repair a dysfunctional MANUFACTURING sector. The banks? They got their bailouts and continued on their merry ways without so much as a 'thank you'.

You ARE the 99% in one way or another. I wouldn't expect you to agree with everything that was going on in the parks, just as I don't. But when you look at some of the charts that have been produced and see the kind of vile corruption in Washington - you have to wonder what it's going to take to even SLOW DOWN what's going on - much less stop and FIX it.

The "99%" is a slogan - I grant you that. But these days you need a slogan to at least start to catch someone's attention.

Take a look at who some of the 99% were in New York City:

The Philadelphia police lieutenant or captain: http://i.imgur.com/rFPgD.jpg

Or how about something from https://www.democracynow.org/2011/11...py_wall_street

Quote:
retired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, who worked as a legal observer Tuesday morning in New York after the police raided the Occupy Wall Street encampment. "I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested... As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'I need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, 'Move on, lady.' And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says Smith. "I walk over, and I say, 'Look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, 'Lady, do you want to get arrested?' And I said, 'Do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.’ He said, 'You want to get arrested?' And he pushed me up against the wall."
That's right - a retired New York Supreme Court justice.

That's one reason I've been "defending", if you can call it that, these protests. I haven't seen such a wide range of people since the Vietnam protests - and that's a little fuzzy since I was young and living in San Francisco at the time.

Guest 11-19-2011 05:15 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 420026)
Bill: I have no trouble believing that there's a lot there at OWS that doesn't represent you.

But you *are* one of the 99% when it comes to the effects of things like obscene bailout and golden parachute packages, ever increasing drug costs to finance executive compensation, lobbyists from these same corporations buying influence that you could never hope to have access to.

It's not about confiscating wealth. It's far more about curbing the unbridled avarice that has become evident in our society.

We look at other countries and their high tax rates and laugh at them. It used to be that we could point to so many things that we had better than they did - but those things are going away. Look at the economies in Northern Europe. They have higher standards of living, better health care, lower unemployment, etc. It's damn scary when you look at it.

Have we spent so much time patting ourselves on the back for WWII that we forgot some of what GOT us to that lofty position?

Our infrastructure is falling apart, health care costs are going through the roof and have been for 20+ years, education is becoming optional (sometimes because we threw so much 'aid' at the problem and the prices just kept being hiked) - we are falling behind. The only thing it seems we're still #1 in is the stereotypical fatcats. What other country tolerates the behavior we do? The bank bailouts were just one part of it. At least with the bailout of GM and Chrysler, it helped repair a dysfunctional MANUFACTURING sector. The banks? They got their bailouts and continued on their merry ways without so much as a 'thank you'.

You ARE the 99% in one way or another. I wouldn't expect you to agree with everything that was going on in the parks, just as I don't. But when you look at some of the charts that have been produced and see the kind of vile corruption in Washington - you have to wonder what it's going to take to even SLOW DOWN what's going on - much less stop and FIX it.

The "99%" is a slogan - I grant you that. But these days you need a slogan to at least start to catch someone's attention.

Take a look at who some of the 99% were in New York City:

The Philadelphia police lieutenant or captain: http://i.imgur.com/rFPgD.jpg

Or how about something from https://www.democracynow.org/2011/11...py_wall_street



That's right - a retired New York Supreme Court justice.

That's one reason I've been "defending", if you can call it that, these protests. I haven't seen such a wide range of people since the Vietnam protests - and that's a little fuzzy since I was young and living in San Francisco at the time.
Great post. Easy to read and understand w/o bias.

Guest 11-19-2011 08:21 PM
The OWS protests are farcical. These people couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands. They have no coherent message and demonstrate with their pitiful congregations that their vision is unworkable and anarchy.

A great article in the WSJ says it better than me: "The Brain Dead Left"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

Guest 11-20-2011 08:20 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 420130)
The OWS protests are farcical. These people couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands. They have no coherent message and demonstrate with their pitiful congregations that their vision is unworkable and anarchy.

A great article in the WSJ says it better than me: "The Brain Dead Left"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read
Richie, I don't intend to be insulting with this so please take this in the spirit in which it's intended.

My *impression* is that you see the variety of voices in the Occupy protests and see it as a mass of muddled ideas.

But going down there and talking to the people myself - in addition to reading interviews that are more than just sound bites tells me a different story. It's that there are a LOT of protests all balled up into one somewhat amorphous heading.

Now, I'm right there with you on the silliness of the finger-wiggling to show support or opposition to a particular topic... Lordy it looks like something straight out of "Romper Room".

Richie, you're better than taking some cable news talking points as gospel. You're articulate, you bother to actually look things up from time to time and you're very often intelligent in expressing your opinions.

Heck, I'll give you a softball. What do you think of this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yIEgZxU1kc[/ame]

It's a bit heavy-handed, I grant you, entitled "Obama Administration Hypocrisy on 'Humanitarian Intervention' and Occupy Wall Street".

*This* is something that has a lot more gravitas for indicting the Obama Administration's double-standard. You want to make the argument that perhaps the banks own our President? Then watch this - and then think about this at the end... How come GM and Chrysler had to fire their executives for their bailouts but Citigroup and the other banks didn't have to?

This is one reason I don't take some of those Wall Street Journal pieces very seriously. They have skin in this fight.


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