hardly!

ilovetv~ There are those who have never played outside the protective boundaries of the playground fence. Maybe, others should be kind enough to not wake them from their perception of reality.

How many unions and contracts in my state institution? 1

Do yourself a favor...check out who can operate as negotiator under the auspice of the office of the governor.
Pretty sure that could quite possibly be the office of Human Resources Labor relations people of a given state institution...

All the public employees spending money is another form of wealth distribution. Government employees are no better then welfare recipients. They just spend taxpayers money. Just like Obama's failed stimulus hoax. Just wealth redistribution. When are people going to understand that public employees are a hindrance on the economy. Small efficient government is the answer. 75% of public servants should be laid off, immediately.

katz - don't have to check it out...i know it is not...i was h.r./labor relations in the office of the state attorney general!

But that money came from taxes in the first place, that was earned and the confiscated in the private sector. Public sector workers are just spreading that same money around again. They're not producing new money.

"You" take money from my pocket, spend it, and say you're contributing to the economy. You took MY money to do it.

and the employees in the private sector are spending the $ that the public sector employees paid for private sector goods and services that the private sector employer used to pay the private sector employees!

private sector taxpayers are the hindrance with their "i pay taxes - i shouldn't have to pay any more." attitude. they demand more and more from their government and think they should not have to pay for it!

if even 25% of public servants were to be laid off, the ungrateful taxpayers would be the first to scream, "where are my servants?"

richielion, katz, loveit - c ya tomorrow. 'puter time's up for tonite. had a great time witchas!

Hardly, you never can find public servants when you need them. Why cannot some understand that public employees are the same as welfare people. They do not make money, they just receive taxpayer's money. This is why we are going broke. Small government is the answer.

Herein lies the difference...folks either pay for services that they receive or they have the $ taken from them to pay for services that they may never receive.

I have never demanded anything from the government, have never received aid from the government, and have trained myself to be extremely self sufficient.

If most Americans were like you we could fire 75% of public employees and maybe start paying off our debt.

I think most Americans are like me and I assume you too. We are the Silent Majority that is quickly awakening. We just need to keep at it until we get back the power that we have let slip through our hands.

The ignorance is staggering.

Go ahead - get rid of 3/4 of the people who do all those services. 3/4 of the cops, firefighters and teachers (think classes are over crowded now?). Knock of 3/4 of the military, the food inspectors, the people who fix your roads (no, you NEVER demanded services from the government) and make sure your water is clean.

There's no argument against the fact that there are places that CAN be cut (we just had a bit of a bloodbath here at the Air Force and are getting word this'll happen again next year). But you're in a fantasyland if you think that you could just lop off 3/4.

Full time civilian employees:
2010 State government employee count: 3,809,697
2010 Local government employee count: 10,965,982
2009 Federal government employee count: 2,823,777 (latest figures available)

That's nearly 18 million employees. You think you can just make another 13+ million unemployed?

Going to have 1/4 the staff in areas like police, fire, prisons, air traffic, water terminals, hospitals, sewers, solid waste management, parks, electric and gas utilities, schools (K-12), libraries, judiciary, transit, financial administration, the military, financial administration, and a whole host of other things I haven't thought of?

I think most Americans are like me and I assume you too. We are the Silent Majority that is quickly awakening. We just need to keep at it until we get back the power that we have let slip through our hands.



Most Americans are not like you - thank goodness.

Most Americans don't think it was very wise to cut taxes and, at the same time, start two wars. Both of which, by the way, you left for others to finish.

Too bad you and your ilk weren't worried about debt then.

We didn't start the wars. There is that little incident about 2 towers falling down, remember? Also, Obama escalated the war by sending 40,000 more troops over there. Cutting taxes stimulate the economy. Raise taxes and the stagnation results. Basic economy 101.

You start off with the caterwauling about cops and firemen as they did in the $30 million dollar union campaign in Ohio to stir up the people. It does not deflect from the point.

I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm not calling for the elimination of essential services and I doubt anyone else is. We're calling for the end of the ceaseless demands for more and more compensation for public employees who now earn more that any comparable employee in the private sector who pays for all the largess that is doled out to them by entities that don't have to earn that money.

I want public employees to know that YOU WORK FOR US. We pay you and we also have the right to question the amount of pay WE give you.

Dispute that.

I was referring specifically to the post that Loveithere made saying that 3/4 of all public employees should be fired that KatzPajamas agreed with.

As far as the attitude in general, Richie, I hope you'll take the following in the spirit it is intended.

I think one of the worst things that has been happening to us as a country is that our drive for efficiency (a good thing) has devolved into a race to the bottom where corporations treat their people like commodities (unless you're on the Board - you get a golden parachute there). Companies used to say their employees were their most valuable asset. This is no longer true.

Many people say that at least we're not like Europe with their unemployment problems. Well, I just looked up those statistics. The two largest EU economies have shocking numbers. Germany's unemplyment rate is *5.8%*!!! France is higher - matching our 9.9% but they have notoriously generous unemployment benefits, even by EU standards.

The VERY socialistic Norway? 3.2%

You can play with the graphs here:
http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...up&hl=en&dl=en

So all those high-tax Eurozone countries (with the notable exceptions of the PIIGS countries Portugal/Ireland/Italy/Greece/Spain) seem to have better unemployment numbers than we do...

So tell me again how we're supposed to be better now that we're paid less, do more, get fewer benefits and are treated like commodities more than the EU?

A lot of truths that I was raised to believe are turning out to no longer be true.

Well, if your true to your beliefs then join the occupiers on weekends and your free time. Do not talk the talk---walk the walk!!!!!!

The two towers "falling down" had absolutely nothing to do with invading Iraq. Absolutely nothing !!!!

There is ZERO evidence Iraq had anything to do with 911. Junior and his minions admiited as much themselves. Al Quaeda had NO presence in Iraq prior to our invasion.

PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DO NOT WORK FOR YOU!
YOU DID NOT HIRE THEM!
YOU DO NOT SIGN THEIR PAYCHECKS!
DISPUTE THAT!

they work for a government entity and their paychecks are signed by that entity's fiscal officer/treasurer. they do not remit payments to you for their taxes, pensions, 401ks, and health covg. they do not request approval of their vacation time from you. DISPUTE THAT!

they go to work every day to provide a service: first responders, doctors, nurses, patient care givers, prison guards, garbage men, landscapers, motor vehicle inspectors, weights & measures inspectors, teachers, investigators, complaint bureau staff, professional credential reviewers/licensers, army, navy, marines, air force, coast guard, yada, yada, yada. those services are for YOU! use them or not! and if you don't want them - tell your elected officials to take them off the book...and then see what they tell you!

you do little more than fund local, county, state and federal governments. you elect people to make decisions for you re how your government will be run and how THEIR employees will be paid. and if/when you do not like the decisions that are made, it is your right and responsibility to vote for someone else. if you want to question the amount of $ paid to public employees or anything else...call your elected officials! they work for you because you elected them!

you can call all you want for the end of salary and benefit increases for public workers - and maybe someday you will be heard - but you will have to find a politician who will listen first! what i cannot understand is why you do not call for the elimination of waste, fraud, abuse and useless, overlapping programs and services that your governments continue to support. that is where true government overspending is found.

Horse flaps... The stimulus added 100,000 useless government jobs and absolutely zero private sector jobs. The government is like a giant sponge soaking up all our resources. We are following the path of Greece and other top heavy governments. Public sector jobs and pensions will destroy the United States. PERIOD.

Ridiculous post. You show a complete ignorance of our system of government if you don't realize that the government works for the people. We have every right to get involved in that government and to demand accountability.

You don't think "public servants" work for the public? Dispute that?

What utter nonsense.

Looks like you truly do believe that the tail wags the dog!:oops:

You're showing more ignorance here. (You seem to ignore the fact that we're being taxed at the lowest rate since the 1950s - I'd hardly call that "soaking up all our resources")

But rather than go down THAT rat-hole, I'll ask a question of you. Here in New Hampshire, stimulus funds were used on an existing roadway project to connect the state's largest airport to the major highway going through our 3 largest cities. The funds allowed us to speed up the construction so that the new highway is opening TODAY (11/11/11) instead of 2 years from now. On top of that, finishing it sooner also made it come in under budget.

Now.. The construction workers who were hired to speed up the job. They were employed by the private construction companies who won the contracts from the state. Are THOSE employees your idea of 'public' employees?

Check the stats and stop calling posters ignorant. You lose what little credibility that you have "soaked up." (Sorry, could not control myself)
The facts are that the Stimulus bill went to public employees and did not create one private sector job.

Note: Highway construction is supposed to be paid with the exorbitant gas tax we pay every day at the pump.

to each of you: all levels of government employ workers to provide services for you - government employees do not work FOR you! if anyone demonstrates ignorance of the employment process, each of you appears to.

and to richie - in my post i did indicate that it is your right AND your responsibility to get involved where i posted, "you elect people to make decisions for you re how your government will be run and how THEIR employees will be paid. and if/when you do not like the decisions that are made, it is your right and responsibility to vote for someone else."

'public servants' SERVE the public - the word servant is the noun/subject derivative of the verb to serve - service is not employment unless an individual is indentured - got it?

I got it. I got it fine. You're another entitled worker, I suspect. Oh yeah, I got it.

and now who posts evidence of their lack of specific knowledge re the recovery act? lol

i believe the private sector solyndra company was a beneficiary of stimulus funding - was it not? http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63393.html

so i further checked out recovery act financial distributions searching thru google...i suggest you try it...it's enlightening...especially when you can find so many private sector businesses that received stimulus money...which will blow your claim that 'rather than create one private sector job it went to public employees' right out of the water. check it out, please.

yes, richielion - entitled to go to work every day and serve the people of the state of n.j. to insure that their needs are met. and in exchange for that i will receive the salary and benefits delineated by my contract. that's as far as entitlement goes.

~Aside from Police and Firemen, please provide the list of public servants and what services they provide to ME
~Also provide what services could not be provided by the private sector more efficiently...ie UPS is a much more efficient and reliable source than USPS. (Post Office failed to overnight a book to my son in college. We paid for that service but didn't get it. When we sought refund we were told (direct quote)"It's just a book"...wtf. So we gave them a second chance. Bought him another book from half.com for $75.00. It got lost in Post Office's system somewhere on the other side of the country according to their tracking system. I called often for several months. The book never was found and no one seemed to care to call me back (as p romised). Unfortunately we didn't insure the process and were out the 75$. Since then, 4+years, we send everything UPS! Average 2 packages/month and haven't had a problem yet.
Forgot to mention that this same 24 year old son has had a subscription to Sporting News since he was 5. The publication comes to our mailbox on Thursdays like clockwork. Every year the March Madness issue fails to arrive and is never received...Hmmmm

Yes, and free to work with separation from the marketplace. Working for a entity that doesn't have to earn a profit to stay in business. So all you people just watch as everything falls around you and say "what does that have to do with me". Public sector union guys just refuse to get it.

Be gentle...sometimes the truth is so personal and painful to accept that the only way to survive it is to remain in the denial bubble.

Every cliche that I have heard about public employees has been verified.

And right here we have the REASON there is "waste, fraud, abuse and useless, overlapping programs that your governments continue to support":

The government EMPLOYEES who waste, commit the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money taken from them, and who DO NOTHING to EXPOSE the lazy, incompetent, ENTITLED employees, managers, and union reps that perpetuate this crap!!!!!

you are absolutely RIGHT! it's just too bad that YOU do NOTHING to see that they are removed from office every time they come up for election!

we faced reality every time we went to the marketplace to purchase our essentials.

and during working hours we faced reality every time a snivling, whining, complaining and abusive customer had to be confronted, dealt with and SERVED!

Those customers are your bosses. You work for the taxpayers, don't like it try getting a private sector job. I'm sure you would get an attitude adjustment seminar.

I'm not talking about what your spending. I'm talking about what you're earning and who you're earning it from. You're earning it from an entity that doesn't have to show profit. Your production has nothing to do with money earned. Your boss may have to be concerned with a budget, but it will never result in business failure, bankruptcy or a possible plant closing.

That's what I'm talking about. You don't have to generate business and revenue in selling or servicing a product. You are 100% overhead.

public works employees maintain the roads you drive on and plow the snow in winter and collect trash.

jail/prison guards keep those deemed criminals off of the street when incarcerated.

inspectors check to make sure your food is safe to eat from the grower to the processor to the restaurant that prepares and serves it; that scales weigh accurately in grocery stores and doctor's offices and ups facilities, and airports; that a gallon of gas from the pump is a gallon.

investigators respond to complaints re consumer protection laws to make sure consumers receive the protections the law affords them; to complaints of abuses allegedly perpetuated by health care providers; to complaints made by seniors re abuses inflicted upon them.

credential reviewers insure that your doctors, nurses, physician assistants, pharmacists, veterinarians, real estate agents, therapists, hair stylists, nail techs, barbers, plumbers, electricians, hearing aid providers, optometrists and opthalmic techs and morticians are properly licensed.

judges adjudicate allegations of criminal and felonius actions and prevent those convicted of same from doing it to you; and the judicial system has a staff of public defenders prepared to represent you should you need their service.

clerical support staff administer the recording of your birth and are awaiting the recording of your death; or the payment of your taxes; or the issuance of a motor vehicle license.

the municipal utilities authority insures that your home has potable water for your use and/or a sewer system that works [where appropriate].

teachers educate your children and the children of the future generation who will be entrusted to take care of you and serve your needs.

the transportation and bridge authorities and the faa ensure the safety of your travel.

a state banking/insurance dept will make sure that your money is in safe-keeping and that your investment advisor is legally credentialed.

an environmental agency will make sure that the air you breath is as safe as it can be.

a state board of public utilities will evaluate a provider's request for a fee increase and determine if it can be granted or modified or denied so that you should not be overcharged.

need i go on?

and as far as the private sector providing these services more efficiently - why have they NOT already done so? if ANYONE could come up with a way to do so AND be able to make a profit while doing so, i am sure they would have done so!

public works employees maintain the roads you drive on and plow the snow in winter and collect trash....~can be done by private companies

jail/prison guards keep those deemed criminals off of the street when incarcerated....~I think some states are moving to contracting this job out also

inspectors check to make sure your food is safe to eat from the grower to the processor to the restaurant that prepares and serves it; ...~buy alot of local foods from local growers, including range beef and chicken and milk...that scales weigh accurately in grocery stores and doctor's offices and ups facilities, and airports; that a gallon of gas from the pump is a gallon....~Wow, these make my friends and neighbors that work in these places sound like crooks that have to be kept in line...

investigators respond to complaints re consumer protection laws to make sure consumers receive the protections the law affords them;...~can be done by private enterprise...maybe even with less corruption? to complaints of abuses allegedly perpetuated by health care providers; ...~abuse by health care providers? not saying it doesn't happen but its an oxymoron for 100% of the health care facilities that I have been associated withto complaints made by seniors re abuses inflicted upon them.

credential reviewers insure that your doctors, nurses, physician assistants, pharmacists, veterinarians, real estate agents, therapists, hair stylists, nail techs, barbers, plumbers, electricians, hearing aid providers, optometrists and opthalmic techs and morticians are properly licensed.....~more distrust...why are all the honest people working only in the government???

judges adjudicate allegations of criminal and felonius actions and prevent those convicted of same from doing it to you; ...~many lawyers are private entities...I'd hire one of them over a public defender any dayand the judicial system has a staff of public defenders prepared to represent you should you need their service.....~Who is inspecting their work for accuracy?

clerical support staff administer the recording of your birth and are awaiting the recording of your death; or the payment of your taxes; or the issuance of a motor vehicle license.....~I'll give you this one, although I think it could be contracted out

the municipal utilities authority insures that your home has potable water for your use and/or a sewer system that works [where appropriate].....~Live out in the booneys with a well and septic tank...I pay a very nice young man who started his own business to come and clean the septic tank when necessary...he went to school with my middle daughter. I tutored him in math in 5th grade and I like him!

teachers educate your children and the children of the future generation who will be entrusted to take care of you and serve your needs....~My kids all went to private schools from kindergarden until graduating from private colleges...Oh, I did homeschool my daughters for 7th and 8th grade since our little catholic grade school only went up to 6th grade. Took the son to a catholic school 16miles away for 7th and 8th grade because he thought he could be a football star :p

the transportation and bridge authorities and the faa ....~wouldn't fly if you paid me, Mr. Katz is the only one who has permission to grope me :pensure the safety of your travel.

a state banking/insurance dept will make sure that your money is in safe-keeping and that your investment advisor is legally credentialed.....~again, distrust of local companies? but hey, where were those state people when the banks were forced to make loans to people that could not afford to pay?

an environmental agency will make sure that the air you breath is as safe as it can be.....~Surely you jest

a state board of public utilities will evaluate a provider's request for a fee increase and determine if it can be granted or modified or denied so that you should not be overcharged.....~more distrust?


by the way...Mr. Katz reminded me that we have a volunteer fire dept in our township:p