njbchbum~I see you snipped my account of a "singular" personal dilemna...Actually is was several personal dilemna's made by a singular government run entity.

"You're earning it from an entity that doesn't have to show profit." - the entity, by law, is not allowed to earn a profit.

overhead - yes - but one which is required by law and can only be done away with by law.

a budget failure WILL result in the reduction/elimination of a service or a reduction in force - similar to the private sector actions you cite - as public employees are laid off and out of work and a program/service is no longer provided.

BUT, as in the private sector, when the leader FAILS to properly fund their accounts - like pensions and benefits and matched 401ks - thousands of lives can be ruined.

Public sector jobs were supposed to be low paying in return for reasonable pensions after many years of servitude to the communities. After many years of "bargaining" public service jobs now make twice their equal of private sector jobs. Disgraceful.
So now public sector jobs pay twice as much as private sector and have pensions more then twice the size of Social Security. What makes public servants think that they should be more comfortable and financially secure then their employers, the private sector. Just because you knew a politician or a crony that got you on the dole?

those customers are the people we SERVE. we are not indentured to them; therefore, they are NOT our employers!

if you are inferring that i never worked beyond the confines of my public employers, you would be WRONG AGAIN! i cut my teeth in the private industries of insurance and healthcare! at the tender age of 21 i was flown around the united states and canada - as a representative of the corporate office - where i conducted salary surveys and developed compensation plans for corporate and branch offices. i had considerable impact on the earnings of every employee in those private sector offices - and indirectly on you and how much your insurance policies cost you! and after working in a private hospital as the 2nd in command of h.r. and employee relations, i realized that retirement security lay in the public rather than private sector. thus i accepted the salary and benefits cut and sought refuge in the playground of state employment!

so there!

There are many people who cannot hack the private sector and take refuse under the nanny state system. It is safe and secure and there is almost zero chance you will get fired for incompetence. Lucky you.barf

public sector jobs WERE low paying [and some still are]. when public employees left their positions for jobs in the increasingly successful private sector, the public sector was placed in a position of 'catch-up'. public sector salaries today are generous - but public employees are not collecting bonuses and profit-sharing checks and participating in stock option plans as some private sector employees are doing. and the vast majority of public sector employees do not have expense accounts and corporate transportation...only the elite executive officers in govt have those perks.

you would have to show me statistics to prove your statement that public sector salaries are twice that of their employment equivalent in the private sector - back it up with fact and not the words of someone who wrote some article somewhere.

i choose to ignore your tired old rant that public employees work for the private sector - it is boring me.

and as far as getting my public employment from a politician or a crony - you show your ignorance AGAIN. i took an employment test for my first position with the state of nj and was placed on a list to wait for a job opening. i then interviewed and was one several new hires. after successfully completing my six month working test period and achieving permanent employment status, i was permitted to apply for promotions when the positions became available; but before i could be interviewed i had to take a promotional exam and get on another list! had i not placed as one of the top three candidates - i mught never have been promoted!

loveithere - i have enjoyed pointing out your misconceptions of me and of life in the public sector. i had hoped to provide some enlightenment into both subjects. however, your CONTINUING demeaning of and disdain for public sector employees is a drone with which i cannot abide. you give me a headache! therefore, may i bid you and your lack of gratitude adieu!

as you see from my subsequent post - I CUT MY TEETH IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. and i was bright enough to see that there was and still is safety in the refuge of the public sector. i am proud to have worked there and served well. and i am grateful that i was able to achieve a significant retirement portfolio between my private AND public sector employment!

whatever!

OMG, katz! you asked for a "list of public servants and what services they provide to ME" and i provided it. and you come back at me with a display of opinion that i did NOT ask for! i could counter each of your points - but that would be a waste of my time and limited typing ability. so i will try to broad brush your entire dissertation and tell you that there are BAD people in this world and the public sector is out there every day to protect you from them; and there are services available to you that you can choose to take advantage of or not...regardless - they are still there for you AND FOR OTHERS!

AMEN!

OMG! Who protects me from the public sector? ...

OK, I'm ignorant and boring. Another piece of evidence that public sector people feel entitled and hold the taxpayers-employers in contempt. I am grateful to have read your posts. Can I use them in my e-mails?

NO EMAILING MY POSTS!

i don't believe i indicated that i find you boring and ignorant in general...you are reading what you want into my posts.

you are ANYTHING BUT boring in matters OTHER THAN the private sector vs the public sector!

taxpayers who do not accept that the vast majority of public sector employees are just doing their jobs to the best of their ability to insure that the needs of all residents are provided for are held in contempt by the public sector employee...along with the sniveling, whining and abusive taxpayer at any customer service location!

good question! should you ever find the answer you can prob make a fortune selling it!

I rest my case...

thank goodness!

njbchbum; all I'm going to say in response to your numerous attempts to cloud the issue of, and you attempt to defend your job as essential, is that your responses literally reek of "entitlement". Your attitude is the reason people hate the public unions.

lol! good one!

Abusive taxpayer? I feel you have set back public relations quite a bit. I will never look at a public sector employee the same again.

i guess you have never been on the receiving end of an irate customer! it doesn't matter how you look at them really. just treat them with respect. if you don't receive respect from them - call their supervisor - just like you would do with a private sector employee.

I served my country, I know irate and I know how to handle it and I bet I didn't get one tenth of your salary.

#1, you didn't answer my question. Do you consider those employees of the construction company (and NH is a right-to-work state so there's a good shot at least some were non-union) are public or private workers?

#2, the gas tax hasn't covered highway construction and maintenance costs for quite a few years. Are you in favor of hiking the gas tax for that purpose?

njbchbum I just caught sight of your reply. Let me say that I am sorry my comments were not clearer. I did not mean to imply that all union workers malinger, etc. The initial union movement did much to help the average worker. However over the years unions have shifted their roles in a manner which is counter-productive. they did so in order to justify their existence.
I put myself through college night and so i worked days and was forced to join two different unions. I witnessed first hand how some workers with the blessings of unon bosses game the system. these are the kind of guys i jokingly say created workers compensation. Let's take the guy I know who was seen sticking his barfe foot i the snow. when one of my friends ask him what he was doing he said "I have a work comp hearing and I need to get my foot and leg cold and red before I appear in front of the judge" Many of my co-workers were not happy with nonsense like this because they recognized it reflected badly on them. The situation has only gotten worse over the years. Salary and benefits are way out of balance with comparable private sector jobs.

You might be surprised to hear me say that by some measure I want to see collective bargaining. However my rationale would be different than what union bosses are doing because they are pricing workers right out of the market...that is the economic reality . another aspect of this is that unions have such an influence over politics and forcing workers to vote for people and issues they would not otherwise.

This issue is not personal its economic. conersely I will tell you I am not happy about the 1% either. However, if anyone thinks they can get the best of them they might want to look back in history. this 1% has the means and resoruces to escape much at present and I suspect creative enough to adjust for any future changes

So again my apology because my comments seem to have misled you on my thinking

Having worked in both the private and the public arena, in my OPINION, the absolute worst irate customers, are those who hand you their MEDICAID card! Curiously if the customer hands you a PRIVATE insurance card and they have good reason to be irate, they can be dealt with quite easily with a simple Please forgive our mistake! Those who have free coverage and therefore pretty much everything for free, will not be appeased. They have usually not been wronged, but pursue the issue to the very top, having their arses smooched all the way up! ...FACTS!

i'm hoping you meant to post more to the point that most/many of the irate customers with whom you have dealt were those who provided medicare cards; and did not intend to broad brush all medicare insureds as irate and not capable of being appeased.

and in my experience in both employment arenas - some of my worst 'customers' often responded with a tantrum to my explanations of fact, law, rule and/or reg with the phrase, "well, don't you know who i am?' or "well, i'll have to write my representative about you!" or best of all..."well, that can't possibly be right!". my favorite resolution to those incidents was when i received an apology from a higher up for having been insulted and treated as poorly as i was by the 'customer'!

Those with MEDICAID cards (not Medicare) usually are harder to please, and usually these folks have complaints that are not based on reality, and when they do have a complaint, it is rare that a resolution can be found to satisfy them, even when that resolution is above and beyond what has been offered to the patients with private insurance. Not all Medicaid folks are difficult to please...no biggy, just throwing it out there.

rubicon - we're cool.

every organization reinvents itself, as and when required, in order to continue on, unions included. my best example being the mother's march of dimes...once polio was 'conquered' they had no reason to exit and could have faded away. instead the organization became one intending to fight birth defects! they reinvented themselves, justified themselves and they live on ['tho there doesn't seem to be any counter-productivity in their existence!]. to what is a union counter-productive? the nj state govt unions with which i am familiar seem to be effective in benefitting their members - isn't this what they are supposed to do? if so, they do not seem counter-productive to THEIR main purpose.

when i was employed in the private sector i probably saw more or as many incidents of favoritism at all levels of the corporation as i saw among govt appointees. favoritism was less prevalent among the public sector classified employees because union members would be QUICK to pick up on and file complaints about their perceptions!

you post that salary and benefits are out of balance with comparable private sector jobs....well, that is a whole other kettle of fish! as a former compensation analyst i can find you statistics to counter that...but all that would be is a battle of statistics and opinions on same. in some areas they are and in some they are not and in some areas the differential is justified and in some they are not, etc. and i venture to think that some private sector unions have got it all over govt unions!

re the exercise of political influence - yikes! like that does NOT go on in the private sector?!?!?! on a number of occasions i have been told by my private sector friends of the intimidations that take place right in the workplace where emps are not only 'urged' to vote for a candidate BUT to contribute to the campaign, too! but how is that unlike being 'urged' to buy tix to the policeman's ball? influence is a door that swings both ways. both private and public sectors and special interest groups all have lobbyists crawling the halls of all levels of govt in hopes of prevailing for their clients. a review of the political contributions of any candidate will show that private and public sector entites are guilty of applyng such pressure! some folks feel pressured to contribute and some give willingly; some resent that their $ is used for a candidate they do not personally support - but they do not usually resent when a winning candidate is in their corner!

and as for the 1%!!!!! well, there will always be a 1%. and if people resent the 1% - why do they try so hard to get into it rather than remain pleased that they are in the 99%?

ciao, rubicon!

oh, katz! of course i meant medicaid and not medicare. must be my digital dyslexia acting up again - too much time at the computer! sorry to make you type out that clarification!

njbchbum: For information purposes only I spent half my career in HRD as manager overseeing job reclassification, including writing new job descriptions, rating them building a merit salary metric system, etc. I also agree with your issues regarding the private sector. While I do not wabt to beat a dead horse, the critical difference and it is huge, is that corporation pay private sector workers while taxpayer foot the bill for public unions.

I am done here

Ciao

Unions
 

Without a union, the individual is nothing against a corporation. Without collective bargaining the union loses its reason for existence.

Are you implying that all corporations would mistreat their employees if it weren't for the union keeping them in line?!?

Some Would
 

Some people have good experiences. Some don't.

...This is a little different from your earlier blanket statement? "Without a union, the individual is nothing against a corporation"

Maybe the individual should be part of the corporation. What is this them against us attitude?

I wasn't talking about corporations. I can agree with you on corporations. That's the private sector, and those union men have to negotiate with their employers on a fair deal that earns them a living while keeping the company alive. Fail that and the company goes out of business and there goes their job.

What the vote in Ohio was for were public employee unions. Those people who work for you and me. Those people that want their money while the foundations are crumbling under their feet. Those people who don't give a rat's patootie about the problems you and your family have with the ever escalating taxes to try to deal with the ever escalating bill that your representatives signed off on with your money to these disconnected people.

There is absolutely no correlation in my mind between public employee union people and their private sector union employee counterparts. It's apples and oranges.

OK, let me step back a little because you and loveithere and tony are insisting on talking about private sector unions.

If you are a blue collar employee or a lower echelon employee for a corporation, there is a good chance that you are expendable to that corporation. It's a good chance that you are a face in the crowd easily replaced.

Now, you organize and become a "union" of employees and you have some power. Now you have grievance and arbitration rights when your employer wants to discipline you in some way. It can no longer be frivolous. I can go into intense detail on all aspects of union life having spent my entire life working as a union employee. Surprised?

But, as a union employee I worked for a union that boosted my standard of living in the halcyon days of intense economic growth and prosperity. My company made money and we made sure we got our rightful share in terms of wages and benefits.

Now, with the economic downturn and changes in the way we can organize, the landscape has changed. In order to survive my union has made major concessions because of the new economic order and we've adjusted work rules and compensation, and even reworked our own union pension plans to preserve some semblance of a dignified retirement when that time comes. That time has also been pushed back to a higher "full retirement" age.

Does that sound like anything the public sector will do? Ha ha ha ha ha.......

NOPE...I know of what you speak.
Mr. Katz has been a Teamster about 40 years. While I on the other hand, manage 38 employees who are public union members who are still at "30 years and out", collecting immediately no matter their age and free full health benies...This recent voting day in Ohio was topic for some interesting discussions among my peeps and I had to remain silent! Ya gotta know that was difficult for me.LOL

Mr. Katz and I have a lifetime of Teamsters Experience between us. I was a Teamsters member for 45 years. The life was good to me. The men who are still working are making sacrifices now. It'll never be the same.

I disagree
 

Two public unions in New York State have settled for 0 percent raises for the next three years and have also settled for higher health care premiums. Seventy six thousand of them have settled for nine furlough days without pay. They are already paid less than it takes to live in NYC and buy a home there.

Could you imagine the disadvantage that they would be at if they were fragmented with a law like Ohio's?

Here's what Mr. Katz says-"We worked our @$$es off and the Company took care of business. The worse thing that happened was when the public unions got really rolling...those mamby pamby cry babies!"...Yes, djplong, this is just his OPINION

[QUOTE=tonyafd;417342]Two public unions in New York State have settled for 0 percent raises for the next three years and have also settled for higher health care premiums. Seventy six thousand of them have settled for nine furlough days without pay. They are already paid less than it takes to live in NYC and buy a home there.

My guess would be that the state had them convinced jobs would be eliminated otherwise.

Maybe this was one of the groups that was cut so that the State could placate the powerful teacher's unions who wouldn't budge an inch and would have created a public policy nightmare in the event of a teacher's strike. The teacher's were threatened with layoffs but stood firm and the state blinked.

Great win for the selfish teacher's union, but the money has to come from somewhere.