I agree.
JJ

'X', I was fine with your post and the need for "facts".

Then you went and spoiled it with partisan, talking point opposition slandering. You take a general condition (voter fraud) that has been known to exist for years for every election no matter whether R or D and then attempt to make it specific to facilitate the need for Republicans to turn voters away for the ridiculous reasons you list:

"The real problem appears to be winning an election this year for the Conservatives/GOP. If your candidates aren't viable, keeping Democratic/Liberal voters away from the polls is a major benefit toward that end. If it can't be won on it's merits - cheat."

You usually maintain your support for your party and your beliefs without the usual slandering done so frequently by some of your compatriots. The back end of your post is really demeaning to your past style.

Without links and facts and what ever else you call for above. Can you reach a non partisan, business, common sense, R or D neutral opinion why YOU think voter ID is either a good idea or a bad idea.

The real issue is if in fact voter fraud no matter how much there is or insignificant, if the voter registration/ID at the polls streamlines the entire process and eliminates the opportunity for fraud.....why not do it.
Really try to think without a partisan bent. Problem solve like in school or at work where nobody ever needed to include a diatribe on party preference to make a point.

Ditto the above for any others that are trying to make a partisan banquet out of ham sandwich.

btk

It is not new....been going on for about 8 years and now MOST states have some form of id requirements for voting and has not been hurried. It is pretty much voted on by the states in referendum (not sure if 100%)..Pennsylvania was the last state to pass this law.

Hard to KNOW for sure how much fraud....not something that folks will own up to for sure. Been reports for years, investigated and could not find strong enough evidence to support prosecution.

Listen, the time is very near where you will need a federal or state id anyway..for many other reasons and you can prevent just ONE case of somebody cheating with their vote, it is worth all the effort.

Here is an article that atually demonstrates voter fraud usinig Holder's name and surprise surprise Holder looks you straight in the face and essentially says "it ain't so"


Justice Downplays Stunt that Stole Holder's Vote

the link below for informational use, shows the map of the US color coded to show\
STRICT PHOTO
PHOTO
NON PHOTO
NO VOTER ID

Voter ID: State Requirements

Isn't that amazing and folks find it "laughable" (possibility of stealing votes = laughable, OR they demean the messenger. It shows how easily it can be done, and the DOJ "downplaying" it is pretty scary since they are supposed to enforce voting law.

You can't use a utility bill to get a social security number. Yet, unfortunately in New Hampshire, you CAN use a utility bill to register to vote at the polls.

Well, a few years ago, my ex-mother-in-law was rear-ended by a driver who got out of the car, panicked and left the scene. Fortunately nobody was seriously hurt. HOWEVER - the guy's license plate fell off the car. The cops traced it to a woman who said that her car was stolen. The police are pretty sure she was lying since she hadn't reported it stolen until just then. The cops said that, most likely from their experience, the driver was a friend here illegally - perhaps the whole family was.

Well, they had electric and water service there. They most likely had cable. That means these illegals COULD VOTE (using those bills as 'proof' of residency) - and that is something I'm VERY much against.

I don't often agree with you but allow me to on this one. Folks can make fun of the people who showed how easy it is to "steal" anothers vote but instead of the DOJ poking a bit of fun, they might put on a serious face to it.

I just love these gotcha things. About as useful as a pimple on one's behind. Since he never voted, I guess we'll never know if he would have been arrested. Republican activists love this approach. <yawn>

Xavier

A 2006 report of a five year probe put out of the US Justice Department (Bush's Justice Department) found a total of 53 voter fraud convictions nationwide. That's 53 over a five year period. This is what I'm talking about when I ask for links for credible data.

It's 5MB file: Click Here

Xavier

How many of the states that have or are now pushing through these potentially voter disenfranchising ID laws have Democrat Governors? Knowing this information might just give you the idea of why some are looking at their ulterior motives.

53 convictions nationwide over a 5 year period! (see my post above) Is it right to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands to catch the small number that break the rules? Yeah, we don't want them to get away with it, but can't we be reasonable and put together something nationwide in a well thought out plan?

Xavier

If republicans had spent as much time trying to find a good candidate with good constructive ideas as they have worrying about voter fraud, perhaps then President Obama would have something to worry about. As it is today, there are no more toss-up states. The president is leading in the polls in all previously labeled toss-up states. Gov Romney has only won the primary in blue states or states that are heavily mormon. With Rick Santorum out of the race, evangelicals will have to swallow hard to vote for Romney. Can you spell L-A-N-D-S-L-I-D-E?

Here are forms of ID used for voting at Florida polls. Just what is the problem with asking for one of these??? How is anyone "disenfranchised" by being asked for one of these?

Voting Information - Florida Division of Elections - Department of State

Notice some folks jumping for glee based on polls and they may end up that happy, but as someone who has been involved INTIMATELY with politics for many many years, allow me to caution you how much time is left AND to share, as folks on here seem to be in love with polls...

In March of 1980 Carter led Reagan by 25 points and lost

In June of 1992 Clinton was not even 2nd..Perot was..Clinton was 3rd Clinton beat George HW Bush

And let me assure beyond any chance of being wrong that the guns will now ONLY be aimed at Obama and there are weaknesses and Romney has all the money to insure that all americans know it.

Not saying Romney will win or anything...I just KNOW from experience, it is much too early to begin to cheer....on that fact I am positive...been there and done that.


PS...Just wanted to add that the last electoral chart I saw the race would be a dead heat as of now.

I really still don't get this debate. I have ALWAYS had to provide my photo ID to vote for as long as I can remember. How can we possibly be debating whether or not people should be required to do so?!?! On the other hand, the guy in the White House didn't have to provide proof of anything before being put on the ballot...silly me! :shocked:

check those who object to this....HARD HARD VERY HARD LEFT WING

AND of course our own Department of Justice !!!!!

He came from Chicago where the way is to cheat,lie ,payoff who ever and plead the 5th when caught.Jesse Jackson Jr is being investigated for trying to buy a senate seat yet Pelosi still endorses him makes you wonder who the hell votes for these clowns.And the guy you refer too gets a sweetheart deal on property next to his.which was payoff for the hud deals Resko made.

Can you post a link to that electoral chart that shows the race would be a dead heat as of now?

I find absolutely nothing laughable about the 2000 or 2004 Presidential elections. I do find it totally laughable when some dipstick goes out of his way to punk someone to enhance their political stance when the problem is so minuscule.

Xavier

"Gallup has released their state-by-state Presidential approval polling. The results do not look good for the President. If you take the simple analysis that any state with a negative rating will go to the Republican, and any state with a positive rating will go to Obama, November promises to be a bloodbath for the incumbent."

2012 Electoral College Projection | Race 4 2012

You can find them all over the place...they vary of course depending on the bias

AND most importantly they will change pretty quickly now that the race is down to two...could favor Obama or Romney, but polls at this time in an election year are worthless.

Seriously Folks - Lets Be Rational
 

1. Unless a person has no legitimate financial means of support, it is impossible to exist in this country.
2. States requiring Voter IDs will provide a free ID including access/travel to the issuing location.
3. I am constantly amazed by the number of people who get out the driver's seat of a vehicle, go into a store to buy tobacco or alcohol, then say they do not have proof of age.
4. Why do proponents have to "prove" illegal voting occurs? (Only the obtuse would deny it exists.) Why not be proactive by doing a Barney Fife? "Nip it, nip it in the bud."

Those are the one's that got caught...what about all the others who got away with it?

:bigbow:

Hi Xavier: I avoid the "is so" is not" game playing. so let me pose this scenario.

America today is so security conscious there is not much we can do buy or go that doesn't require identification. so exactly how many people do you really think are inconvienced by presenting a photo ID card. Say what you will or will what you say but it is critical to America,Americans and those countries affected by the presidential outcome that a fair clean and legal election take place. It surprises me that liberals who have at the front of their agenda "fairness" can't seem to grasp the need for "fairness in our election process. By demanding photo ID's we satisify everyone that dead people and dogs didn't vote and that every American who wanted to vote did so but only once.

It's only the liberals who are against proving who you are when you want to vote in an election.

I find this very instructive.

I also have to laugh heartily when proponents of having people prove who they are are called "extremists". Is that hilarious, or what?

Richielion: Liberals are even creative in their opposition. I mean their excuses are so lame, Geeezzz. I'm done with this thread

It's a villainous world. I don't see why some have a beef with the picture ID. Hiding something would be my guess.

Why don't the Republicans just admit it? The only reason they want voter ID, and I do mean the only reason, is to suppress voting in their favor. They can wrap themselves around the ridiculous notion that voter fraud is rampant and they want to solve a problem that doesn't even exist all they want but their motives are clear. :ohdear:

That would be hard to do for an honest person. Why should I lie to appease the left?

The only thing I would admit is that your post is total unadulterated b.s.

Why don't you admit that the only reason you're against voter i.d. is so that people who aren't legally qualified to vote can do so?

There is no other reason this this most important of all public functions is the only thing that you insist shouldn't require you to prove who you are.

Why do you want them to be able to vote?

If you say that's not the reason, I say your pants on on fire.

P.S. If what you're saying is that people who are legally not able to vote, do indeed get to vote, they would vote for Democrats. Why don't you just come out and say it. Just be honest about it.

No Dale, you have the situation quite backwards. The reason Republicans support voter id is to ensure that the principle each man/women gets one vote and only one vote. The reason Democrats oppose it is to continue ballot box stuffing and illegal voting. The only examples we have seen of voter intimidation have been those done by Democrats. The only examples of illegal registration are those done by Democrats. The only examples of forged signatures are again those by Democrats. Please tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of one and only one vote for each person.

I would just like to hear ANY rational explanation from those against voter ID why they think it is a bad or not a good idea.

PLEASE, PLEASE if it is humanly possible see if the answer can be rational and not partisan. I know it is a lot to ask. And also that you may not be allowed to do so!!

But let's see if one is willing to give it a try.

btk

Xavier

Xavier, you may be right that it would disenfranchise hundreds of thousands and I will agree with you if you can introduce me to even five of hundreds of thousands. That shouldn't be too difficult if what you say is true. There must be at least 50,000 here in Florida.

I don't get all Xavier's repostings. Nothing in anything he's saying explains why voter I.D. is a bad idea. Regardless of how many people have been convicted of voter fraud, the chance of voter fraud is there. Just as a bank won't cash your check without I.D. you should have to prove you are who you are to vote. It's the only thing that makes sense.

It seems we disagree. :icon_wink:

You say we disagreed and I concur. I believer in the principle of one person, one vote. You apparently do not.

No, I believe on one vote for one person. What I don't believe in is one party attempting to suppress voting to their advantage. But their will never be an admission on the part of Republicans as to their real motive so to argue is not worth it. :(

hmmmmnnnn, starting to look like they may not be allowed to respond without partisan banter!

btk

Lets see you need a id to bank,if your on any form of public aid,to travel and to drive and do just about anything.So who are these people that don't have any form id.I do not know 1 person with out it so wheres the problem?