They (mistakenly in my opinion) have hitched themselves to a (bad for them, but great for their leaders) philosophy and they accept lies, misleading statements and misdirection as gospel. Like going to a magic show! They aren't there to see truth. They are there to be thrilled by illusion and they want to believe it is real, and they will argue that it must be real because they can't imagine how they were fooled. Even if you show them the wires and trap doors, they still won't get it because the double talk impresses them. Reality is not as much fun and makes them feel used and foolish. So they try and buy into and continue to pass proven falsehood off as proof. Example, see "Plymouth rock. 400 years and still above water". They purposely try to pass lies hoping nobody will notice. And when they get caught they feel no shame. They are doing their lords work, in a manner of speaking. We won't change them. Change must come from within, and they are addicted to alternative reality.
I know, jimjam, it's pretty disappointing. But keep up the good work and over time some may learn. TMO, for what it's worth.

I can guess exactly what this club is like. It is, I'm certain, exactly like any of the Mensa meetings I used to attend. To wit, a bunch of academics, nerds, socially awkward, one-topic ninnies who all think they are smarter than everyone around them pontificating on their respective opinions while wondering why they have such trouble getting laid.

Yeah, my CL is 98% that this is how the group is composed.

If you wait a hundred years to turn down the thermostat to your liking, billions will die from your prescriptions from starvation in the meantime -- and long after you're gone.

Better to accept the world as we find it and deal with it than wish we can change it five generations from now. I'm not going to tell 4 billion people to drop dead so we can have the same climate we had the day I was born when there were only 3 billion of us. I'd rather use the resources God gave us to bring the wealth we enjoy to the rest of the world, so we can somehow find a way to exist in a world that's 2 degrees warmer.

It really doesn't matter what caused "climate change" or if it's even real. If you're afraid of hurricanes (which are demonstrably neither more frequent or devastating than they ever were), you'd be wiser to build a stronger house than wait for 4 billion people to die so they'll quit burning carbon.

It's called COMMON SENSE.

Common sense and the lack of a hysterical personality/condition.

Well, it does matter what "caused" climate change because to fix a problem, people need to 1st identify the problem. And YES, it IS real. Yes, build a stronger house - a domed house. You don't need 4 billion people to die - you just need there to be less births in the !st world nations that use up all the world's raw materials. People in the US are having fewer babies because there is no longer a middle class. The wealth all resides in the upper, upper classes. And the middle class people that would have babies can't afford to buy a new starter home. The US has more deaths than births just like Japan and other 1st world countries. So the US would SELF-CORRECT its own problems if left alone. But, rich people ALWAYS like plenty of population so they can get WAGE SLAVES to raise their children and clean their homes and become butlers. So they will arrange to bring in more immigrants - legal or otherwise - they don't care.
......Most of those 4 BILLION people mentioned don't have cars. They just work the land and grow crops. it is the 1st world people that cause all the Heat causing pollution.

Sentence #4......"to bring the wealth we enjoy to the rest of the world".......that is NOT even Capitalism. That is strangely more like Communism. I am sure that was NOT intended. 1st sentence.......sort of confusing, but my goal is to replace gasoline vehicles with ELECTRIC ones.....no more, no less. Not a HIDDEN agenda.

Not really.
It’s also water vapor.
-Roy G Biv

Everything you just said is demonstrably untrue. China was destitute for millennia -- until they embraced capitalism. The current generation is the first one able to feed it's billions -- and there are more of them than ever before. Mao couldn't do it, even after starving 50 million of them. In fact, this is the first generation in the history of mankind worldwide where starvation isn't rule. Capitalism, technology, wealth, and fossil fuels did that, not communism, which is nothing more than a scientific-sounding name for feudalism..

And until you find a way to replace fossil fuels, electric vehicles merely make the problem worse, due to the inefficiency of burning the fossil fuel 50 miles away, and sending it over wires to store in a battery that requires more carbon to make than it ever saves. You aren't replacing anything by mowing down forests for windmills and photocells that only produce power 50% of the time under the best conditions. We need a new technology. You won't get new technology by rolling back the progress of the last 100 years.

Figure out a way to save the climate that doesn't involve starving billions, and I'll get interested. In the mean time, we have much more pressing problems to solve than the weather 100 years from now. For instance, there are still about 15,000 nukes pointed at us that could end ALL life on Earth over a computer glitch.

How about a little common sense for once?

Ditto. Common sense says there is no climate change crisis -- just a climate alarmism crisis.

Common sense? Common Sense? Don't make me laugh! "Common sense" would have us believe the earth is flat? Common sense would have us believe the sun and moon stars and planets revolve around the Earth. Common sense is all that uneducated ancients had to try and figure out what was happening all around them. Their answered to thunder and lightning, earth quakes and floods, plagues and famine and disease was gods, demons, witches and sorcery. Common sense doesn't seek to find truth, only an easy answer. Common sense doesn't care about what really went on through out the ages of Earth's history, or the cosmos, or the future. Common sense only cares about here and now and not falling off your chair.
What science does is use extraordinary sense, expanded sense. Science doesn't use Common sense to cures for diseases, or see if we can fly faster than the speed of sound (once thought impossible), or even if we could fly (also once thought impossible).
Sorry, friends, but common sense isn't good enough for identifying and finding remedies for the complex problems of this new age.

Sorry folks -- as of today the climate crisis was cancelled along with the green new deal. Alarmists will now have to find a new scam to work.

Actually, the "crisis" has not been cancelled. It is still there. You just aren't looking at it. Like the snake in the grass, it will still bite you, but you will be surprised. Why? Because it isn't a scam.
Now, we could talk about scams, but that might get the moderator to use their magic wand, and we don't want that, do we. Plus, it's past my bed time.
Have a good night. 😴😴😴

Nobody is arguing against science, merely the politicization of science.

My son-in-law is a scientist and AG professor, with a PhD in the correct discipline to have an opinion on climate change. He lost tenure for merely pointing out in a break room conversation that the polar caps on Mars recede and grow at the same rate as Earth's, suggesting that our current warming trend could have something to do with the variable star we live next to -- maybe even more than a .04% CO2 level, which always increases during warming trends, anyway.

Firing a scientist for questioning a prevailing theory is not science -- that's politics.

Common sense applies when you're worried about a hurricane blowing away your house and you think the solution is to starve 4 billion people in order to turn the thermostat down generations from now.

Common sense says use technology to solve the problems we can solve now and use science to solve the problems of the future without killing billions of people in the process.

First, sorry that your son lost his job, but I'd be willing to bet the barn that there is more to that story, whether you know it or not.
As to the starving of 4 billion people, that makes no sense because nobody wants to run the thermostat down. That would send us backwards towards an ice age. We, at least I, would like to see us take our boot off the warming distruction of the planet. Stop cutting rain forests (that provide oxygen for us to breath) and replacing them with coffee plantations that provide far less oxygen. Stop polluting the land, sea, rivers, lakes and the air. Stop applauding folks who have more than 2 kids. Over population is, imo, the root of all humanities woes. (Nobody has to kill anybody. Cutting the birth rate means more of everything for the living, a better quality of life). Cut the use of fossil fuels and replace them when we can with other, cleaner sources of energy. My list goes on, but the basic idea is for human beings to help make our planet a healthier, cleaner, better, bio-rich place for our species to engage in more ethical pursuits than the petty squabbles over wealth, land and power.
We've "paved paradise and put up a parking lot". Think how it could be if we could "get ourselves back to the garden", knowing what we know now.

Notice that the northern tip of The Villages is in a Winter Weather alert -- for tomorrow. Green energy users will have problems staying safe and warm.

Green energy users will be fine.
By the way, I said cut back on fossil fuels when we can. Not delete them. Until alternative energy sources are up to snuff, we may, on occasion , need to temporarily supplement our green, primary sources.

And Electric cars, trucks, and golf carts are easier and cheaper to maintain. They have engines with circular motion. Unlike infernal combustion engines which have pistons slapping up and down and require a crankshaft to change the up and down motion into rotary motion. Electric vehicles are inherently MORE dependable than ICE vehicles. And they have almost ZERO pollution, which makes them a key ingredient in SLOWING down Global WARMING.

PLease Mr Moderator . Please put a stop to these self declared experts. Let anybody say anything about water and we get the same lectures.

The Forum has an Ignore User function.

Ignore List

Ms. Moderator :024:

Some posters, regardless of how much one wishes to ignore them, are like watching the inevitable train wreck. One just cannot peel one's eyes off the impending calamity. However, your point is duly noted. Is there a way to "Ignore Topics" and entire topics can be ignored. Ya know, like climate change or politics or gas vs electric? Now THAT would be a cool forum feature.

I can state what I believe to be common sense. World temperatures for the last 10 years have been INCREASING each year. It is easy to google a graph of that. A graph of world population starts rising in about 1990 and the graph looks similar to that of World Temperatures. That is because they are related. I can easily state how to save the world from excess Global Warming, but 95% of all Climate Scientist have been saying how for years and nobody listened. In fact everybody's favorite almost President Al, the injured by slings and arrows, Gore told everyone many, many years ago. The rich 1% ( many of them owner of gas and oil stocks) got their LOBBYIST cronies for the oil and gas to use humor to decry VP Gore's EARLY, but CORRECT warnings.
.......Note......I said NOTHING about Mao and Chinese history.
........The wires that move electrical energy have negligible power loss because the transformers can get the Voltage up so the current is LOW. POWER equals Current times Voltage.
.....And in paragraph 2......Most windmills are located in places that originally do not have forests, such as out west at the tops of rocky mountains or on the sea coast or in sea water.

One way to ignore topics would be to go FISHING at a Villages lake. but, remember to put the fish back (gently) because they can't be eaten. I wonder what the environmental implications of that are.
.........The point is that all humans exist in an environment and talking about how to improve that is how human life can IMPROVE. One way humans improve themselves and their friends is to have loving and informative DISCUSSIONS on ALL subjects. "Whose a nice puppy"? "Whose afraid of a little discussion?"

1. I never declared myself as an expert. But I listen to experts and pass along what I learn.
2. Sexism? What about Ms, Miss, Mrs, or other "title"?
3. Stopping people from saying things that do not break the rules is censorship. Hardly the job for the Moderator.
4. Nobody is forcing you to participate. I could be wrong.

We already possess that function. It is your finger, powered by your brain. Want to ignore a certain subject thread. Don't click on it. If you make a mistake, no worry, just click off. No one will know you were there. Easy, peasy.

Cardiologists friend, sold their oceanfront home, couldn’t afford the insurance and taxes in NC, fyi

Ripping yarn! Please elaborate. Inquiring minds want to know!

Yes, no doubt, that was not the single incident that caused my son-in-law to lose tenure. He is a very sober and intelligent man, and I imagine there were other incidents where he attempted to inject logic into the religious arguments over the causes of so-called "climate change".

But there is a somewhat happy ending to the story. He was not fired -- which is very unusual in cases such as this. His students started a letter-writing campaign and a congressman stepped in. But I suspect the greater influence was the millions of dollars his grants bring into the university. And here's the ironic twist. Those grants are to study how grazing grasses can be selected or modified to make them more resilient to the droughts in many places of the world that have occurred as a result the recent warming trend (in particular, the pampas of South America where we get most of our beef these days).

Unlike the religious zealots who argue over silly solutions for the weather 100 years from now, he's working to come up with solutions for the immediate climate problems of today.

But it still wasn't enough to save his tenure. The University is still free to fire him at a whim, which I'm sure they will do when his current projects are finished and the public eye is elsewhere. Such is the state of "free speech" on our nation's campuses.

Well, I, for one, wish him every success. But always remember that the immediate climate problems of today took a lot of clever people a long time to create. I think that whatever we can reasonably do is going to take awhile. So, the sooner we begin, the better.

The only man-made climate problem is climate alarmism. It takes a lot of clever people to make up misinformation -- such as NOAA altering temperature data.

Oh! Another pretty picture. How clever of you.

It's not clever -- it's just data fraud. Here is more evidence ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgk3xFHvWLE