[DeanFL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Bicyclists are not mandated to take the multi-modal paths.
You said that there were eight individual bikers at different intervals along Buena Vista in the right lane.
Since bicyclists are each legally entitled to a three-foot clearance, perhaps driving in the left lane would have been easier for you, rather than swerving in and out to remain in the right lane.

Many times, in heavier 'traffic' - as it was in that morning, we prefer to stay in the right lane to go around traffic circles in that outer lane...safer we have found.

So for those that noted the 'swerve' word I used in the first Post = please...
It was simpler to use that word than 'pass over to the left lane then back to the right'... And how are we supposed to know there may be another biker further up BV again once we're in the right lane again. We were doing the speed limit, and a few of the bikes were going quite slow.

We respect the law, but just sayin'... it can appear to be turtle/hare on the roads at times; really need to be constantly alert.

[sunnyatlast]

Tonight, a prime example happened. An older man on a wobbly was ahead of me in the right lane, going southbound on Buena Vista at the Calumet Grove entrance. It was 6:50 p.m. and the sun had already set. It was "dusk", and low visibility. The man was dressed in dull grayish clothes, excelpt for his dull red shirt, and bike was grayish too. It was not easy to see him.

I stayed behind him because other cars were coming up behind me doing 35 mph as is the speed limit, and they had to "swerve" to go around me in my car, trailing behind the man going 11 miles per hour in a 35 mph zone. I eventually passed him, but I had to wait for the cars coming up behind me as they "swerved" to the left because they didn't expect a car or bicyclist ahead to be going only 11mph.

There was not a single cart or bike anywhere in sight on the multi-modal path, where this man should have been riding. From Calumet Grove all the way south to 466, I saw only one golf cart going southbound on the multi-modal, and I saw only 2 going northbound. The multimodal was empty and wide open.

Now I would like somebody to explain how it is preferable and safe for a wobbly, uncertain bicycle rider to be on a 4-lane avenue going 11 mph in a 35mph zone……

But a regular golf cart with power to accelerate, and ability to go 20 mph, is not allowed on that avenue amidst car traffic going 35. (I'm not saying I want regular carts in it. I'm comparing the safety.)

To me it makes no sense. The multimodal path was open and perfect for this type of rider.

[tommy steam]

I don't care if the biker is wrong or right . I always give them a wide berth. I would not want to be responsible for injuring or killing one.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by tommy steam

I don't care if the biker is wrong or right . I always give them a wide berth. I would not want to be responsible for injuring or killing one.

Same here.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

Tonight, a prime example happened. An older man on a wobbly was ahead of me in the right lane, going southbound on Buena Vista at the Calumet Grove entrance. It was 6:50 p.m. and the sun had already set. It was "dusk", and low visibility. The man was dressed in dull grayish clothes, excelpt for his dull red shirt, and bike was grayish too. It was not easy to see him.

I stayed behind him because other cars were coming up behind me doing 35 mph as is the speed limit, and they had to "swerve" to go around me in my car, trailing behind the man going 11 miles per hour in a 35 mph zone. I eventually passed him, but I had to wait for the cars coming up behind me as they "swerved" to the left because they didn't expect a car or bicyclist ahead to be going only 11mph.

There was not a single cart or bike anywhere in sight on the multi-modal path, where this man should have been riding. From Calumet Grove all the way south to 466, I saw only one golf cart going southbound on the multi-modal, and I saw only 2 going northbound. The multimodal was empty and wide open.

Now I would like somebody to explain how it is preferable and safe for a wobbly, uncertain bicycle rider to be on a 4-lane avenue going 11 mph in a 35mph zone……

But a regular golf cart with power to accelerate, and ability to go 20 mph, is not allowed on that avenue amidst car traffic going 35. (I'm not saying I want regular carts in it. I'm comparing the safety.)

To me it makes no sense. The multimodal path was open and perfect for this type of rider.

The man on the "wobbly" is an single example, most bikers move at a clip. I just don't understand that with the speed limits low and the mostly straight roads that anyone with vision good enough to drive and has experience enough to know the different modes of transportation there are around here would ever be surprised when they approach a bike on the road. It's the silly season and we all need to put the beer can and cell phone down and PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING. Look ahead and anticipate your next move. Maybe travel at 30mph instead of 35mph.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

Now I would like somebody to explain how it is preferable and safe for a wobbly, uncertain bicycle rider to be on a 4-lane avenue going 11 mph in a 35mph zone……

I'm not sure that anyone ever said it was preferable or safe, just that it was legal. I agree that a wobbly rider is safer on the MM path.
I have flashers on my bike and I wouldn't dream of riding at dusk on a busy road.
It doesn't make sense to me either. But bicyclists are entitled to a three-foot clearance, no matter if they're going fast, or slow and wobbly. It's the law.

[chachacha]

i had the same thoughts this morning when passing a couple of groups of bikers going north on morse below 466..with an empty golf cart path safely off the road, why would these bikers risk their lives going on morse blvd? doesn't make sense to me, but then i don't ride!

[rubicon]

It just amazes me that the same people who genuflect to the Developer for his well designed and well thought out paradise community made personally for them blame each other for encroachment on their rights to use roads and multi-modal paths. It can't be with a little more thought that some certainly not all of these issues could have been resolved. Its someone fault but never because of faulty design and planning????????????????????

[Sparty6971]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I'm not sure that anyone ever said it was preferable or safe, just that it was legal. I agree that a wobbly rider is safer on the MM path.
I have flashers on my bike and I wouldn't dream of riding at dusk on a busy road.
It doesn't make sense to me either. But bicyclists are entitled to a three-foot clearance, no matter if they're going fast, or slow and wobbly. It's the law.

Excellent posting! I too get frustrated sometimes but the law is the law. And common sense says we should expect to see bikers on the roads so as to not be too surprised when we come across them whether we think they should be there or not.

This morning going north on Buena Vista, we saw a real mix of bikers. On the MM Path was a group (about 10-15) of bikes going at a fair speed, less than golf carts that passed them though. At the same spot we saw a group of (about 5-6) tandem bikes being ridden on the southbound Buena Vista roadway, well below the speed of the bikes on the MM Path. We just remarked about the incident and wished them well as we continued on north.

Moral: All sorts of bikes will be on both the MM Path and on the road, and at various speeds so as the safe, considerate car-drivers we all are, we need to be ready for them. Ready for responses.

[Halibut]

Bike ride 3 days a week. Prefer to stay off cart paths. Have had many more close calls from carts than cars. Cart drivers appear very impatient.

Cart drivers are definitely the worst offenders.

Why is that, do you think? Does anyone believe they have a different driving mindset when they're in their car vs their cart? Do cart drivers subconsciously not consider themselves to be in a "real" vehicle and thus feel the rules don't apply? Do they simply not know the rules?

I'm asking honestly, not being snarky. I rarely drive our cart and when I do, it's usually a short trip that I treat as a slow sightseeing tour or Sunday drive in the country. In other words, if I'm in a hurry or need to be somewhere, I'm not taking the danged cart.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by Halibut

Why is that, do you think? Does anyone believe they have a different driving mindset when they're in their car vs their cart? Do cart drivers subconsciously not consider themselves to be in a "real" vehicle and thus feel the rules don't apply? Do they simply not know the rules?

I'm asking honestly, not being snarky. I rarely drive our cart and when I do, it's usually a short trip that I treat as a slow sightseeing tour or Sunday drive in the country. In other words, if I'm in a hurry or need to be somewhere, I'm not taking the danged cart.

Perhaps it's because some cart drivers hear "multi-modal" but think "cart path". And then operate as if anything on the path but a cart is "trespassing" on their right of way.

[tuccillo]

In general, the golf cart paths are more dangerous. Serious bike riders prefer the road.

Originally Posted by chachacha

i had the same thoughts this morning when passing a couple of groups of bikers going north on morse below 466..with an empty golf cart path safely off the road, why would these bikers risk their lives going on morse blvd? doesn't make sense to me, but then i don't ride!

[Happydaz]

Some statistics for 2012 show that there were 33,561 motor vehicle deaths. There were also 4,743 pedestrian deaths that year. Bicyclists were involved in 729 fatal accidents of which 29% involved a crash with a motor vehicle. So 210 bicyclists were killed by cars in 2012. Obviously there are a lot more people driving around in cars and for a lot more miles, but overall, bicycling is a fairly safe activity. Also bicycling has become much more popular over the last ten years so there are more bikers out there on the roads.

When I lived in New England people were very careful about passing bicyclists and gave them a wide berth. I didn't hear as many negative accounts as I do here. Maybe the best way to help people understand why many bicyclists prefer the roads is for those posters who think that the multi modal paths are so safe, is for them to venture out on these paths either for a nice walk or a slow bike ride on their old Schwinn and see how comfortable they are coming through tunnels and going around hidden curves with golf carts racing all around them. That will be an eye opener for them. Come on, give it a try!

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

...Maybe the best way to help people understand why many bicyclists prefer the roads is for those posters who think that the multi modal paths are so safe, is for them to venture out on these paths either for a nice walk or a slow bike ride on their old Schwinn and see how comfortable they are coming through tunnels and going around hidden curves with golf carts racing all around them. That will be an eye opener for them. Come on, give it a try!

High-mileage road bikers seem to be in general agreement that roads are safer than the paths. They're far more experienced than I, and I respect their opinion. I'm not one of them, but I'm not a slow biker on a Schwinn either. I ride fairly quickly for exercise. And speaking for myself (and possibly a few others?) I feel safer on the paths. Here are a few thoughts why...

* I'm extra careful around the tunnels and sharp turns. They seem very manageable with some extra caution;
* I feel more in control of my own fate on the paths. If a situation I don't like arises, I have several options how to deal with it that are not available on the road;
* In general, things happen more slowly (not slowly...just more slowly) on the path, making all sorts of adjustments easier to make;
* No matter how hard I try, I just don't feel like I belong on the highway. People approaching me much faster than I'm traveling, etc. Sure, they can give me space, but what if the adjacent lane is occupied? That situation alone is impossible for me to reconcile. I am much more at the mercy of the traffic and the approaching driver than I ever feel on the paths;
* If, in the worst case, an accident of some sort happens, I like my chances of survival or lesser injury on the paths.

Again, this is just the opinion of one mid-level exercise rider. YMMV.

[Biker Bob]

If I ride to the extreme right, cars think they can zip by me and they can ignore the 3 foot rule. Cars are supposed to stay at least 3 feet away. When cars are getting to close to me, I will move into the middle of the lane and it forces the cars to slow down or pass in the other lane. It is safer for all. Florida law says if the lane is less than 11 feet wide, if a biker feels threatened or uncomfortable they have the right to take the entire lane. This applies to all the roads in the villages. Let's get along and share the road! Why is everyone in such a rush - enjoy life. As you approach a rotary, the speed limit is 20 mph. A great many of folks seem to ignore this. Texas Bob.