[Patty55]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I really, really admire people who foster dogs, or take them for training. I've contemplated it, but I know that if I had a puppy for a year, there is no way in the world I could bear to part with it. I'd be a felon because I'd take the dog and flee across the border to Canada.

I would just say "Oops, it ran away", then I'd move.

[Patty55]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

May I please ask a serious question about being the pack leader? I understand this, Barefoot, and believe it with all of my being. But, how does a dog respect you as a pack leader when you have to follow behind their BMs and pick up their poo? Excuse me for sounding so crude, but it has weighed on my mind since I've lived here and constantly see people walking around picking up after their dogs and carrying the "you know what" with them.

I posted this on another thread that got shut down, a friend of mine bought her dog a backpack so he can carry his own poop.

[CFrance]

[QUOTE=bkcunningham1;573279]May I please ask a serious question about being the pack leader? I understand this, Barefoot, and believe it with all of my being. But, how does a dog respect you as a pack leader when you have to follow behind their BMs and pick up their poo? Excuse me for sounding so crude, but it has weighed on my mind since I've lived here and constantly see people walking around picking up after their dogs and carrying the "you knw what" with them.[/QUOTE

BK, I think you are ascribing the mind of a human to a dog. I don't think they even notice that you're following them around picking up after them. They don't even understand the concept of defecating and who's responsible for cleaning it up.

What they're looking for is clear direction from you as the pack leader to remind them what's acceptable and what's not, in terms of their actions, not yours. And to trust that you will always do that. So you let them do this, and you don't let them do that, consistently, and that's what makes you the pack leader. They don't have a clue what you're doing or what it means when you pick up their poop, the same way they don't look at you as their servant when you put their meals down for them.

[shcisamax]

Gentle Leader. I have a dog that actually had me hydroplaning. The Gentle Leader changes everything. It is not at all painful to the dog but they cannot move any further than the length of the leash. Go get it today.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

Gentle Leader. I have a dog that actually had me hydroplaning. The Gentle Leader changes everything. It is not at all painful to the dog but they cannot move any further than the length of the leash. Go get it today.

My vet talked us into a gentle leader with our current golden. Maybe because our last golden pulled so much despite training. I love the gentle leader, but I would like to train the dog out of it. It is to the point that it's merely a psychological thing with him now. If it's on, he doesn't pull. If it's off, he eventually pulls. It's not even tight on him anymore.

But it does get a lot of strange looks and negative comments from people not familiar with it. I shouldn't care, but I get tired of explaining it to people who are brazen (rude?) enough to comment.

[bkcunningham1]

[quote=CFrance;573333]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

May I please ask a serious question about being the pack leader? I understand this, Barefoot, and believe it with all of my being. But, how does a dog respect you as a pack leader when you have to follow behind their BMs and pick up their poo? Excuse me for sounding so crude, but it has weighed on my mind since I've lived here and constantly see people walking around picking up after their dogs and carrying the "you knw what" with them.[/QUOTE

BK, I think you are ascribing the mind of a human to a dog. I don't think they even notice that you're following them around picking up after them. They don't even understand the concept of defecating and who's responsible for cleaning it up.

What they're looking for is clear direction from you as the pack leader to remind them what's acceptable and what's not, in terms of their actions, not yours. And to trust that you will always do that. So you let them do this, and you don't let them do that, consistently, and that's what makes you the pack leader. They don't have a clue what you're doing or what it means when you pick up their poop, the same way they don't look at you as their servant when you put their meals down for them.

You gave me something to think about with your comments. Thank you. I can't get past that dogs mark their territory though. So, they must have some appreciation of their, um, shall we say, actions.

I do apologize for helping to derail this thread. But some of the best discussions are sidetracked thoughts, IMHO. I personally think Barefoot may be onto something though. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm5xQyD2vE&feature=related[/ame] Peace.

[CFrance]

[quote=bkcunningham1;573357]

Originally Posted by CFrance

You gave me something to think about with your comments. Thank you. I can't get past that dogs mark their territory though. So, they must have some appreciation of their, um, shall we say, actions.

I do apologize for helping to derail this thread. But some of the best discussions are sidetracked thoughts, IMHO. I personally think Barefoot may be onto something though. Muttley laugh - YouTube Peace.

That may be true, but the territorial marking has nothing to do with your picking up their poop vis-a-vis being their pack leader. The marking is instinctive. Our dog doesn't know what the heck I'm doing when I pick up his poop. He doesn't see it as me being beneath him in the chain of command. He doesn't even know what that action is all about.

You do certain things for the dog because he can't do them himself and/or needs them to survive--feeding, getting their vacs, walking for exercising. The pack leading thing has to do with him recognizing what is expected of him in general.

[bkcunningham1]

Just put it this way, CFrance. If you weren't acting appropriately and you allowed your dog to be your pack leader, you can bet he isn't going to be picking up after you. Now who has who trained? LOL jk

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

Just put it this way, CFrance. If you weren't acting appropriately and you allowed your dog to be your pack leader, you can bet he isn't going to be picking up after you. Now who has who trained? LOL jk

Well, I don't think it's my dog that has be trained to pick up his poop. He could care less! It's society that's trained me to do that. When we were kids, there were fewer dogs and nobody picked up after them. Then the population grew, the pet population grew, and poop on the ground became more of a problem. So ordinances were enacted. Then I got trained, but by the community, not by the furry friend ;-D

[cpcrofton]

I'm not a dog trainer but have worked with several while training my Westies. I would be happy to work with you and your pup! I recommend having a training collar, the linkage type and plenty of meat treats, like cut up hot dogs! Contact me via email cpcrofton@comcast.net if you're interested.

[lovsthosebigdogs]

Have you tried a Gentle Leader collar? I know that labs are big and strong and also that Gentle Leaders look like muzzles but they are not. They are a tool for you to gain control of a dog that wants to go her/his own way when you walk. The idea is that where the head goes, the body will follow. The collar comes with instructions and maybe even a video (Not sure about that). Dogs are usually not thrilled with it at first but once they get used to wearing it it's not a problem for them and it makes it much easier for you to control them. My brother in law was complaining that his 1 year old mostly pit bull mix was dragging him all over and pulling his arm out of the socket. I visited him and brought the GL collar with me. After less than 5 minutes his dog was walking perfectly next to me. He didn't like the look of it and refused to use it so his dog is still dragging him down the street. The collar goes over the dogs muzzle with a strap but the dogs get used to it pretty quickly if you stick with it. Good luck. You can get them onliine or at PetSmart.

[lovsthosebigdogs]

Boy, do I feel stupid. Somehow I came to this original post from a different place and didn't see the other posters comments when I suggested the Gentle Leader. Like it was an original idea, LOL. Shoulda known that all my smart friends from TOTV would have gotten there before me. Oops.
Anyway, in all my years of dog training and therapy dogs I did have one dog that never quite figured out that I was Alpha. He was respectful about 95% of the time but he always thought we were equals. He was extremely smart, walked appropriately on lead MOST of the time, but if he thought he needed to go see something he'd pull me. This rarely happened because he was very well trained but it did happen on occassion and when a Great Pyrenees has an idea you don't share, believe me you know about it. And because it only happened, oh, maybe once a year it always took me off guard. So, the question is, Was that dog really leash trained?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by lovsthosebigdogs

Have you tried a Gentle Leader collar? I know that labs are big and strong and also that Gentle Leaders look like muzzles but they are not. They are a tool for you to gain control of a dog that wants to go her/his own way when you walk. The idea is that where the head goes, the body will follow. The collar comes with instructions and maybe even a video (Not sure about that). Dogs are usually not thrilled with it at first but once they get used to wearing it it's not a problem for them and it makes it much easier for you to control them. My brother in law was complaining that his 1 year old mostly pit bull mix was dragging him all over and pulling his arm out of the socket. I visited him and brought the GL collar with me. After less than 5 minutes his dog was walking perfectly next to me. He didn't like the look of it and refused to use it so his dog is still dragging him down the street. The collar goes over the dogs muzzle with a strap but the dogs get used to it pretty quickly if you stick with it. Good luck. You can get them onliine or at PetSmart.

You can get them much cheaper on ebay than in the stores. All the guys in our family were dead set against the gentle leader, and I was the only one using it on our golden. Finally my husband tried it and was amazed at how much easier it was to walk the dog. Then our son (football tackle) was visiting and wanted to take the dog out for a walk. I "made" him take the leader along. He had switched to it within two city blocks.

The only problem is rude people asking you why your golden is wearing a muzzle. It's really nobody's business, but I get tired of explaining.

Oh, and the initial trick with training the dog to the leader is KEEP MOVING!!! In the beginning, as soon as you stop walking to talk to someone, the dog will drop to the ground and start trying to wriggle the thing off of his snout. This only lasts a couple weeks. Much better to keep him moving. I ignored the instructions to have him wear it around the house, because he just kept trying to paw it off of himself.

Good luck!

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by lovsthosebigdogs

And because it only happened, oh, maybe once a year it always took me off guard. So, the question is, Was that dog really leash trained?

I don't think dogs (or people) are ever 100% anything, including leash trained. We all go off the deep end occasionally.

I have a small dog, 12 years old. He is very well trained and polite. He is a Therapy Dog and has visited many hospitals and clinics. However he goes bannanas when the neighborhood squirrel hangs on our birdcage to tease him.

[ActsOfKindness]

hey darlin you are giving up way too easily there. my beautiful sheltie ..died 2 years ago ..she was 19. i forgot what it was like to have a puppy in my life..God bless my son..he got me another sheltie okay? i have no fenced yard and it was summer when i got her.it was a nitemare. i m not going to lie here. but eventually she started walking. if you dont get her going between you and her....you will have other 'problems' that arise..with power plays. what good is it if someone else walks her..she lives with you. you are her mommy so to speak...and you both need to bond with each other. who is stronger physically and phychiologically? if all else fails...petsmart and i think petco..too have dog obedience classes. i almost did it..but finally my new sheltie started cooperating. they sense your fear or anxiety or frustration by the way. if shes pulling you .stop walking. even if she only walks one city block nicely...then take her back and give her a treat. rome was not built in a day..do it slowly. dont give up hon..honest...u can do it. its all about love and in a gentle but firm way ....showing her you are in control not her. A HARNASS for sure. no leash or collar there..but a harnass.YOU HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER THE DOGS BODY THAT WAY..OKAY? okay good luck to you ..God bless. marlene in lynnhaven