Alec Baldwin in lose/lose situation!

[billethkid]

I decided there is not enough info to comment....thread deleted.

[coralway]

Sounds like an episode from Perry Mason, exact same scenario.

[Caymus]

I had no use for him since "The Hunt for Red October"

[Nucky]

I don't care for him but if you ask me I don't think he had any bad in his heart when he shot the gun. Temper or not, I don't think he's guilty.

What a shame for the lady who was killed and her family. I feel awful for them.

[Taltarzac725]

I don't care for him but if you ask me I don't think he had any bad in his heart when he shot the gun. Temper or not, I don't think he's guilty.

What a shame for the lady who was killed and her family. I feel awful for them.

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

[Woodbear]

Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.

[Koapaka]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

Maybe not....he was the producer for the film AND the union folks walked of the set that same morning citing safety concerns...he could have a whole lot of responsibility in this besides just pulling the trigger.

Replacement worker was in charge of Alec Baldwin's deadly prop gun (https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/)

[Kelevision]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

The same exact thing happened to Brandon Lee back in the 90’s. Nobody tried to sabotage anything. There’s a strict protocol for guns. Only one person can handle guns. They must show the 1st AD each chamber to show it’s a cold gun. NOBODY can just grab a gun of a prop cart and hand it to an actor. Therein lies the problem. Rules weren’t followed. Alec Baldwin, like him or not, had nothing to do with this other than he had the gun. The union crew members were not happy with production on this show and had complained to producers, then walked off the set at which point the movie hired non union crew members to replace them. There were 3 accidental discharges on that set. That’s UNHEARD OF.

[Kelevision]

Maybe not....he was the producer for the film AND the union folks walked of the set that same morning citing safety concerns...he could have a whole lot of responsibility in this besides just pulling the trigger.

Replacement worker was in charge of Alec Baldwin's deadly prop gun (https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/)

He won’t it’ll be the line producer or UPM. But in the end, nobody will be charged with anything because that’s how this business works. You think this is the only death? You’re seeing it because an actor was involved. You don’t see the other issues that happen on sets due to lack of safety.

[Kelevision]

Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.

He was told the gun was cold. He shot the DP who was operating the camera most likely since her crew walked out on her. And the director was standing behind her as they often do.

[Joanne19335]

Someone dropped the ball on this one. He is sincerely remorseful and truly broken-hearted. At age 68, it may be a very long time, if at all, before we see him again.

[Taltarzac725]

Prop gun in Alec Baldwin accidental movie set shooting had live rounds, police say | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/alec-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-that-killed-crew-member-movie-set-authorities-2021-10-22/)

This has more information from what is a trusted source.

He said the prop gun was one of three on a cart outside a building. One of them was taken by the assistant director on the movie who went inside and handed it to Baldwin.

"As the assistant director handed the gun to the actor Alec Baldwin, (he) yelled 'cold gun', indicating the prop gun did not have any live rounds," the affidavit said.

As the investigation proceeded, questions were raised about working conditions on the set of "Rust", a small budget Western movie of which Baldwin was both star and a co-producer.

[LateBoomer]

Someone dropped the ball on this one. He is sincerely remorseful and truly broken-hearted. At age 68, it may be a very long time, if at all, before we see him again.

Never again would be fine with a lot of us

[thevillages2013]

Never again would be fine with a lot of us

That’s two thumbs up from my deplorable viewpoint

[christine J Toft]

The same exact thing happened to Brandon Lee back in the 90’s. Nobody tried to sabotage anything. There’s a strict protocol for guns. Only one person can handle guns. They must show the 1st AD each chamber to show it’s a cold gun. NOBODY can just grab a gun of a prop cart and hand it to an actor. Therein lies the problem. Rules weren’t followed. Alec Baldwin, like him or not, had nothing to do with this other than he had the gun. The union crew members were not happy with production on this show and had complained to producers, then walked off the set at which point the movie hired non union crew members to replace them. There were 3 accidental discharges on that set. That’s UNHEARD OF.
Lee was shot with a real bullet. Same thing?

[Taltarzac725]

Never again would be fine with a lot of us

Crew member yelled 'cold gun' as he handed Alec Baldwin prop weapon, court document shows - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-saturday/index.html)

The kind of hate being aimed at Alec Baldwin from certain "news" providers and trolls on various other sources will only strengthen how others support him. It will be up to him if he comes back to the entertainment industry.

[Oneiric]

I decided there is not enough info to comment....thread deleted.

Regardless of who's to blame, why would you have live rounds anywhere near a movie set?

[Bridget Staunton]

Don’t like the man at all

[talleyjm]

Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.

My son is in the film biz. He said some shots are aimed at the camera so it looks like the actor is shooting into the audience❗️She was behind the camera and the director was probably right beside her watching the work she was doing. Son said there absolutely should have been a plexiglass shield in front of the camera before Baldwin shot at the camera. My son is a first assistant director in the Director’s Union and has been trained in weapons and safety. He spoke to some other first assistant directors in LA and the consensus is that a lot of this tragedy is because to cut costs a “local” crew instead of a highly trained union crew was hired/employed. Son said first assistant director on Rust will probably never work in the film industry again.

[Tuly914]

Brandon Lee,
Jon-Erik Hexum from TV show Cover Up back in the 70s and now Alex Baldwin. And many more we've not heard about. It's very stressful filming a movie and you put your trust in the people who are responsible for all the props and equipment. Whether you're all a fan or not of any above mentioned, accidents do happen. Sadly it took lives. In my opinion, yes, my opinion, I think all the above mentioned were setup, but that's for the investigators to figure out. Whether I'm a lefty or righty, I'm a big fan of Alex Baldwin as was for all the above mentioned.

[Heytubes]

Years ago an actor on a popular TV series put his prop gun to his head as a joke and pulled the trigger and died. Blanks can kill too.

[DeanFL]

.
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AB = good actor, enjoyed him in many of his roles.
AB = have NO use for him as a person, his political diatribes and treatment of his daughter and patriotic folks

The injured and killed by him = so very sad for them and their families.

Lawyers = will be very very busy on this one, both sides.

AB = as a Producer on the film - liable, perhaps personally for the actions. Apparently all Union personnel, incl the Firearms experts, walked off the set hours before noting bad working conditions. But, apparently some of the non-union crew continued working when the incident happened. Including those killed and injured.

AB = Past horrid tweets come back to haunt him now... what goes around...
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[B-flat]

POS with a well known temper and a NY CCW.....and an anti gunner to boot...................ahhhh to be one of the elites.........can't make this crap up.........

Ditto!

[Blackbird45]

This is neither Alex Baldwin's fault as an actor or that of the fire arm it self.
Most film sets run at the very least 60 hour weeks, most of the time it's more.
They have a 10 hour turn arounds which means you could start at 6am work until 8pm which is a normal and you have to be back on set at 6am to do it all over again. Don't forget that means driving home, taking a shower and maybe eating something. On typical short movie this goes on for 12 weeks.

Accidents happen all the time, the crews are young and the equipment rental is usually more expensive than the crew.
I was on a job one night when a kid fell 5 flight down an air shaft of an old tenement building, lucky for him there was ton of trash at the bottom and he survived.
They called the an ambulance and the fire department had to get him out, while this was going on we broke for lunch and when we got back we went right back up and started shooting.

Another job the star of the show was all wired up to appear as he was being shot multiple times before he was completely rigged they all went off and burned his chest.

This is what happens when the most important thing is time and money, safety takes a back seat.
Most high price talent are driven to the set, have a camper, are call to the set to do their scenes and even if they put in a long day it's not usually everyday. That why I'm saying as an actor it's not Baldwin's fault, as a producer it maybe something else.
Though a lot of actors who get credit for being producer are usually in name only, most of the time it's a financial arrangement.
Movies are show business with the emphasis on business

[jim@jedward.com]

Anyone who is "handed a gun" and then chooses to fire it without checking to see if it is loaded and what it is loaded with is guilty of negligence. Anyone who fires a gun is responsible for every projectile that comes from the gun.

Respectfully, I don't understand the assertion that Baldwin did nothing wrong. He didn't check the gun. If he shoots it, it's on him.

[NoMo50]

Tragic, and this incident is far from over.

Movie sets are supposed to have qualified armorers on hand, and only the armorer is allowed to handle and load prop guns. Additionally, there is to be NO live ammunition anywhere on the sets. For live rounds to wind up in a prop gun, they had to be placed there by someone. This goes beyond "oops."

Violation of basic safety protocol? Certainly. Negligent homicide? Perhaps. Intentional murder? Possibly. We'll see just how far the local law enforcement agencies take this. Even if this was "just" a horrible accident, a manslaughter charge is not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Paul1934]

He has full responsibility. He was a controlling executive on the movie and HE had the gun last. He had a personal and professional responsibility to check the status of the weapon he recklessly fired directly at the victim.

[tophcfa]

Someone dropped the ball on this one. He is sincerely remorseful and truly broken-hearted. At age 68, it may be a very long time, if at all, before we see him again.

Promise?

[manaboutown]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

He is 100% responsible as he failed basic firearms safety by not checking for live rounds in the gun. He pulled the trigger at least twice. What an idiot! But we all knew that.

REVEALED: Alec Baldwin'''s old tweets reveal ignorance, cruelty regarding guns and gun safety | The Post Millennial (https://thepostmillennial.com/revealed-alec-baldwins-old-tweets-reveal-ignorance-cruelty-regarding-guns-and-gun-safety?utm_campaign=64474&fbclid=IwAR13ubKnMG4tjwb9Ggf8vPiSB_C3KxVJZMAh1gU86 0o6MaiDUihwnkX6FbM)

[tedquick]

Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.


I agree, Woodbear: I have been trained that you never ever point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at another human being unless your intent is to kill that person. I don't like Baldwin. I'm not saying he intentionally killed anyone but he should never have pointed the gun at another person, period. And then to pull the trigger? I'm guessing he was being very careless and remarkably stupid.

[SkBlogW]

.
.
AB = good actor, enjoyed him in many of his roles.
AB = have NO use for him as a person, his political diatribes and treatment of his daughter and patriotic folks

The injured and killed by him = so very sad for them and their families.

Lawyers = will be very very busy on this one, both sides.

AB = as a Producer on the film - liable, perhaps personally for the actions. Apparently all Union personnel, incl the Firearms experts, walked off the set hours before noting bad working conditions. But, apparently some of the non-union crew continued working when the incident happened. Including those killed and injured.

AB = Past horrid tweets come back to haunt him now... what goes around...
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I agree with this post 100%. Especially the last sentence.

According to a crew member, there were 3 previous accidental discharges of live bullets on the set. Baldwin may have some culpability as producer and also because he did not follow the cardinal rule of weapons. "Treat every gun as if it is loaded"

Unbelievable that a few days earlier prop guns fired live bullets and that someone would just trust that the gun was safe.

Alec Baldwin '''Rust''' camera crew walked off before shooting - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set)

[Blackbird45]

I'm have no opinion on Baldwin one way or the other. I was in the business for 40 years, everything is rush, rush, rush and then some more rush. Everyone has a job to do and hopefully they are proficient at what they do, enough so you can rely on them. To blame Baldwin for not checking to see if the weapon had a blank or was load is unfair, he probably would not know the difference.

I was once told by a very famous actor when you can't do anything in life you become an actor and if you can't make it as an actor you become a politician. I might not agree with that but it was a funny line.

[manaboutown]

Alec Baldwin'''s fatal prop gun shooting: Experts weigh in on how accident happened | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-shooting-experts?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR1tQemC8ajQQLIN_5Y8YNURyS1t99OhuqPa4rogI ROp33uYtqeqH9ds3y8)

[MollyJo]

Exactly

[SkBlogW]

To blame Baldwin for not checking to see if the weapon had a blank or was load is unfair, he probably would not know the difference.



If I was on a set where live rounds had been fired by accident days earlier, I would surely check the weapon.

9mm blanks:

91273

9mm bullets:

91272

[Blackbird45]

Again Baldwin is an actor, the only thing he probably knows is how to point and pull the trigger.
If you showed him the 2 displays he probably would think one was a lipstick and the other a suppositorie.

[Taltarzac725]

Again Baldwin is an actor, the only thing he probably knows is how to point and pull the trigger.
If you showed him the 2 displays he probably would think one was a lipstick and the other a suppositorie.

Alec Baldwin was told gun was "cold" before fatal movie set shooting, court records show - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alec-baldwin-shooting-cold-gun-court-records/)

Some actors were in the military and have been around guns a lot and some hunt and some probably have very large gun collections.

Have no idea about Alec Baldwin though. There seem to be a lot of gross generalizations going around.

Alec Baldwin shooting: what we know so far - France 24 (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211022-alec-baldwin-shooting-what-we-know-so-far)

[manaboutown]

I wonder how Alec would do as a con within the infamous NM State Penitentiary which ironically is not far from where he shot two people. Penitentiary of New Mexico | NM Corrections Department (https://cd.nm.gov/divisions/adult-prison/nmcd-prison-facilities/penitentiary-of-new-mexico/)

[Two Bills]

Given the comments on this thread and the Brian Laundrie one, the courts should draw all jurors from TOTV.
Probably whip through a dozen trials a day, saving court time and money, and solve a few outstanding murders on the way home.
Who needs evidence?

[Blackbird45]

Years ago, I took my car in for its usual tune up and tire rotation, when it was done, they handed me the keys and told me it was out in the lot. I drove the car maybe 1,000 yards off the lot and had to pull over, there was a terrible sound of grinding metal. I turned around to took in back into the dealer. It seems that when they rotated the tires the mechanic did not tighten the lug nuts on one of the wheels. It took over a month to repair the damage it caused. This could have cause injury to me or someone else. Even though I have changed many tires in my life, when a professional tells me my car is ready to go, I don’t pop the hood and check the tires. Even though we are talking about a firearm you have to understand he was relying on someone he believed to be a professional.

[Cheryl Barrios]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

I disagree. The ultimate responsibility of EVERYONE who handles a gun, prop or not, is to check to see if it is loaded and if it is what it is loaded with. You never, ever fire a gun unless you have checked it yourself.

[tedquick]

I disagree. The ultimate responsibility of EVERYONE who handles a gun, prop or not, is to check to see if it is loaded and if it is what it is loaded with. You never, ever fire a gun unless you have checked it yourself.

Correct. The first thing you ever do when you take possession of a gun is to check to see whether or not it is loaded. Even if it is unloaded you still NEVER point it at another person.

[Cheryl Barrios]

Anyone who is "handed a gun" and then chooses to fire it without checking to see if it is loaded and what it is loaded with is guilty of negligence. Anyone who fires a gun is responsible for every projectile that comes from the gun.

Respectfully, I don't understand the assertion that Baldwin did nothing wrong. He didn't check the gun. If he shoots it, it's on him.

Absolutely on him. One of the first and most basic of rules of handling a handgun - CHECK THE DANG THING!

[GypsyRN]

Someone dropped the ball on this one. He is sincerely remorseful and truly broken-hearted. At age 68, it may be a very long time, if at all, before we see him again.

Tragic, but won't miss him a bit!!:ohdear:

[manaboutown]

Today's Albuquerque Journal has a couple of front page articles on the unfortunate event and circumstances which led to it. I hope this link works.

Albuquerque Journal (https://abqjournal-nm.newsmemory.com?selDate=20211023&goTo=A01&artid=1)

[SkBlogW]

Again Baldwin is an actor, the only thing he probably knows is how to point and pull the trigger.
If you showed him the 2 displays he probably would think one was a lipstick and the other a suppositorie.

Ah yes, the dumb actor excuse. Baldwin grew up in New York, has been acting for 40 years including scores of movies where weapons were used. You actually think he has never seen blanks and bullets and could not tell the difference?

Even if the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court hands you a weapon and tells you it is not loaded, you check and verify.

PS Bullets are not like loose lug nuts.

[Topspinmo]

It there any gun’s that needs to taken away IMO it Hollywood. This has happen several times before. Jason lee was last one I remember getting killed on set

[Topspinmo]

Ah yes, the dumb actor excuse. Baldwin grew up in New York, has been acting for 40 years including scores of movies where weapons were used. You actually think he has never seen blanks and bullets and could not tell the difference?

Even if the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court hands you a weapon and tells you it is not loaded, you check and verify.

PS Bullets are not like loose lug nuts.

I believe Hollywood types can’t tell the difference or people working on the sets. There should be no power in movie set bullets when they show loading guns on set. That way there on actual live ammo around unless somebody induces one used for crime.

[Blackbird45]

Even though I retired over 10 years ago I am still maintain my member membership In the IATSE which is the union that covers almost all movies. My local and I assume all locals have apprenticeships and testing. As I heard on the news the prop master on this job was not a union member. Some productions will go non-union to save money and they get what they pay for. If I'm a member of her family I will sue the production for every penny I could get. May they'll get to understand there is a cost of hiring non professionals. In this case it was some ones life.

[Taltarzac725]

Even though I retired over 10 years ago I am still maintain my member membership In the IATSE which is the union that covers almost all movies. My local and I assume all locals have apprenticeships and testing. As I heard on the news the prop master on this job was not a union member. Some productions will go non-union to save money and they get what they pay for. If I'm a member of her family I will sue the production for every penny I could get. May they'll get to understand there is a cost of hiring non professionals. In this case it was some ones life.

The lawyers will be very busy with this matter.

Do they say what kind of weapon this was? A Colt Peacemaker? Winchester Rifle? Shotgun?

Meet the Colt Single Action Revolver: The Most Famous Gun of All Time? | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-colt-single-action-revolver-most-famous-gun-all-time-42352)

[nick demis]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

If you have any experience with firearms, there are does and don'ts. He failed totally in both of those departments.

[Taltarzac725]

If you have any experience with firearms, there are does and don'ts. He failed totally in both of those departments.

I got shot with a BB gun which went into my left pinkie. The fellow teen was aiming it at my eye and I convinced him to fire between my fingers instead. He went into a mental health facility as soon as his parents learned of it. I grew up in Reno, Nevada near "friends" who used to hunt rattlesnakes for fun. I went along but would deliberately make enough noise to drive the rattlers away.

I do have experience with shotguns and 22s though. And with firing a very heavy pistol.

[Taltarzac725]

Baldwin is not a trained gun owner, though. He's a liberal and an actor from New York City. He was using the gun as a prop for a scene, not as a weapon. He was told the gun was "cold" which should have meant that it was safe for him to rehearse with.

Clearly someone made a terrible error on that set. Baldwin might have some liability as a producer for the accident but I don't think he is personally responsible for the safety of the props on the set. It's insane that someone yelled "cold gun" on a loaded weapon. How did that happen? Was it an error or was it intentional?

That seems to be the most important question. Was this yelling "cold gun" done while the person knew the gun was actually loaded with real bullets.

This has a lot of very good information. Gun Control Activist Alec Baldwin Kills One, Wounds Another on Movie Set | SOFREP (https://sofrep.com/news/gun-control-activist-alec-baldwin-kills-one-wounds-another-on-movie-set/)

[Koapaka]

Interesting turn of events....not saying it was intentional, but this is certainly a little bizarre......

I mean, what are the odds?

Alec Baldwin Shooting Victim Was Wife Of Latham & Watkins Lawyer Which Represent The Clinton Connected Attorney Just Indicted By Bob Durham - USA SUPREME (https://www.usasupreme.com/alec-baldwin-shooting-victim-was-wife-of-latham-watkins-lawyer-which-represent-the-clinton-connected-attorney-just-indicted-by-bob-durham/)

[New Englander]

I feel very bad for the woman killed, the injured director, and Mr. Baldwin. Can you imagine how bad he feels?? :pray:

[Escape Artist]

It is irrelevant though. The issue seems to be what the person who yelled "cold gun" meant and knew when he/she made that assertion to Alec Baldwin.

Maybe irrelevant but certainly ironic given his personal views. Why would a movie set use real guns that can be loaded with actual bullets? I've seen many fake guns that look like the real thing. Only upon close examination could you tell the difference.

Another thing - if they were having labor disputes on this film and Baldwin was indeed one of the producers, wouldn't he and the director be more cautious about things like firearms/weapons? As others have already commented, replacement workers may not know the safety protocol in these situations.

[Blackbird45]

I've been a gun owner for 25 years and have also work on many film sets and I have to tell you working on a film set is more dangerous than any firearm. It's like being aboard a runaway train. It's all time and money, which means things are either intentionally or unintentionally over looked. Many gun owner have posted that Baldwin should have check the weapon, that is true, but I have seen prop masters actually show the actor the the firearm is unload before they hand it to them. This should have been the responsibility of the prop master to take this step. As I said working on a film set can sometimes be a mad house, it's like being in the middle of a 3 ring circus and not knowing what's going to happen next and even someone who is an experience gun owner might get distracted.
Let's be honest if this was a low budget movie with some no name actor it probably wouldn't have been on the news.

[Boston-Sean]

Baldwin is not a trained gun owner, though. He's a liberal and an actor from New York City. He was using the gun as a prop for a scene, not as a weapon. He was told the gun was "cold" which should have meant that it was safe for him to rehearse with.

Clearly someone made a terrible error on that set. Baldwin might have some liability as a producer for the accident but I don't think he is personally responsible for the safety of the props on the set. It's insane that someone yelled "cold gun" on a loaded weapon. How did that happen? Was it an error or was it intentional?

Baldwin is a gun owner.

He is also the one who killed that woman. Not the person who told him it was a cold gun.

If someone handed you a gun, told you it wasn't loaded, would you point it at a family member and pull the trigger or would you double and triple check that it really was unloaded first?

The person in possession of the firearm is solely responsible for handling that firearm safely. You don't get to shrug and claim it's someone else's fault if you kill someone.

Did other people screw up? Yes, that seems likely. But Baldwin is the killer.

[roscoguy]

Why do some people have to make everything political? And where are the moderators when we need them?

Two of the best questions in a thread chock full of politicized diatribe, misinformation, improper terminology & silly assumptions... :ohdear:

First, the news reports were wrong in calling this incident a "misfire" but it sure wasn't a "hangfire" either. (More "fake news"? :icon_wink:) It was an accidental shooting, not even an accidental discharge since the firearm was meant to fire when Baldwin pulled the trigger.

Second, the 2 other discharges, at least according to the linked LA Times article, (Alec Baldwin '''Rust''' camera crew walked off before shooting - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set) ) were accidental discharges as the firearm was supposed to have been totally empty. There was no mention anywhere that I read that a projectile was involved in that incident, BTW.

Third, even though most of us may well have been taught proper firearm safety, do you really believe that every single actor who is handed a prop firearm by a professional armorer is going to completely unload & then reload that gun each and every time? Something tells me that just ain't gonna happen...

[Blackbird45]

To the many gun owners who want to blame Baldwin I get your point of view, but if you worked on a film set for a couple of months I believe you will walk away with a whole different aspect.
The IATSE was about to go on strike against the studios, I'm not sure they have finalized the contract yet. Most of the disputes had to do with the hours and working conditions. That's got to tell you something.

[Stu from NYC]

Why would he point the gun at another person and than pull the trigger?

[Taltarzac725]

I feel very bad for the woman killed, the injured director, and Mr. Baldwin. Can you imagine how bad he feels?? :pray:

He would be heart-broken would be my guess.

[Taltarzac725]

Why would he point the gun at another person and than pull the trigger?

Because he was making a movie and thought that the gun was not loaded with bullets.

2021 Rust shooting incident - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Rust_shooting_incident)

[Blackbird45]

Why would he point the gun at another person and than pull the trigger. She works the camera and the direct are usually next to the camera I would guess it was going to be part of the shot.
I'll saw a funny, maybe not so funny accident that happened on a Polo cologne commercial I was working on.
We were on a polo field and they designed a shot where the player took a shot at the camera. They put a plexiglass sheet on an angel in front of this $55k camera, I assume that it would not fly back at the rider. Inside it flew over everyone head and knockout the director's son's nanny that was standing a good distance behind us. I doubt she ever visited a set again.

[coffeebean]

He won’t it’ll be the line producer or UPM. But in the end, nobody will be charged with anything because that’s how this business works. You think this is the only death? You’re seeing it because an actor was involved. You don’t see the other issues that happen on sets due to lack of safety.

Vic Morrow and two child actors were killed on a movie set several years ago from an explosion. That made headlines for sure.

[vinnytalk]

I decided there is not enough info to comment....thread deleted.
I conclude the same a this writer, not enough evidence to show any wrong doing.
I don't like Baldwin but you can't judge people with hate.

[Love2Swim]

Well, maybe because Alec Baldwin is an "actor" who has made political comments, involved himself in political causes, caught up socio-political controversies (problematic current wife), etc. All of life is political, especially nowadays. There's no escaping it which means it may spill over onto an internet forum at times.

No. Just because a public person like Baldwin voices his political opinions doesn’t mean you can break the rules of an online forum and post political stuff. It is specifically banned on TOTV.

Some people just have to bring politics into everything. There are some diehards on TOTV that just don’t know when to quit. Give it a friggin rest.

[Two Bills]

I conclude the same a this writer, not enough evidence to show any wrong doing.
I don't like Baldwin but you can't judge people with hate.

This is TOTV.
No evidence or facts needed.
Guilty as charged!

[Topspinmo]

Vic Morrow and two child actors were killed on a movie set several years ago from an explosion. That made headlines for sure.

Which caused the helicopter to crash.

[Taltarzac725]

I conclude the same a this writer, not enough evidence to show any wrong doing.
I don't like Baldwin but you can't judge people with hate.

Loved him on some shows. Not so much on others.

I see no evidence that Alec Baldwin meant to hurt anyone.

[Taltarzac725]

Which caused the helicopter to crash.

That was decades ago on a Twilight Zone movie set.

[golfing eagles]

Even though I retired over 10 years ago I am still maintain my member membership In the IATSE which is the union that covers almost all movies. My local and I assume all locals have apprenticeships and testing. As I heard on the news the prop master on this job was not a union member. Some productions will go non-union to save money and they get what they pay for. If I'm a member of her family I will sue the production for every penny I could get. May they'll get to understand there is a cost of hiring non professionals. In this case it was some ones life.

Yes, because we all know ONLY union members can tell the difference between live ammo and blanks, and ONLY union members practice gun safety on a set, and ONLY union members......... (Oh, yes, and ONLY union members pay dues to the union)

[Taltarzac725]

Yes, because we all know ONLY union members can tell the difference between live ammo and blanks, and ONLY union members practice gun safety on a set, and ONLY union members......... (Oh, yes, and ONLY union members pay dues to the union)

Just sounds like someone was criminally negligent in the placing of a weapon with live rounds in it on a place where actors retrieve these items for use in the movie production.

These Old West pistols are fairly heavy as well so it would be hard to tell if these were not blanks loaded.

[golfing eagles]

Just sounds like someone was criminally negligent in the placing of a weapon with live rounds in it on a place where actors retrieve these items for use in the movie production.

These Old West pistols are fairly heavy as well so it would be hard to tell if these were not blanks loaded.

I doubt anyone could tell the difference between a gun loaded with blanks or live ammo by weight

[Taltarzac725]

My older brother's friend had a tendency to whittle pieces of himself off while growing up in Reno, Nevada.

He found an old pistol around Rattlesnake Mountain. Took it home and put a live round in it to see if it would work. Well, the pistol exploded in his hand.

I got that old pistol minus various parts from my older brother after he had to leave town to get away from a bad element and used to practice my fast draws. But now the gun had no firing pin in it and I would never load it anyway.

This is the same friend of my older brother who tried fishing for carp in Hidden Lake behind Rattlesnake Mountain with a machete. He missed and gashed his leg up rather badly.

[Villageswimmer]

I would like to see guns and violence eliminated from movies/tv. Period.

[Escape Artist]

To the many gun owners who want to blame Baldwin I get your point of view, but if you worked on a film set for a couple of months I believe you will walk away with a whole different aspect.
The IATSE was about to go on strike against the studios, I'm not sure they have finalized the contract yet. Most of the disputes had to do with the hours and working conditions. That's got to tell you something.

It tells me that maybe Baldwin was culpable but in a different way. He's one of the producers of the movie, I don't know what his stake in it is, but surely he had an opinion on the walkout or perhaps concerns about things going smoothly with the production. In other words, he's not just an actor waiting for his cue who's not really interested in what's going on with the crew or the behind the scenes activities regarding union issues.

[Escape Artist]

No. Just because a public person like Baldwin voices his political opinions doesn’t mean you can break the rules of an online forum and post political stuff. It is specifically banned on TOTV.

Some people just have to bring politics into everything. There are some diehards on TOTV that just don’t know when to quit. Give it a friggin rest.

When I first discovered this forum back in the spring, I don't recall seeing the caution at the top of the forum page about discussing politics or making political references. How long has that been on here? Maybe I just missed seeing it.

[Love2Swim]

When I first discovered this forum back in the spring, I don't recall seeing the caution at the top of the forum page about discussing politics or making political references. How long has that been on here? Maybe I just missed seeing it.

It’s been there for a long time.

[manaboutown]

Hollywood Weapons Expert: Alec Baldwin Ignored the No. 1 Rule of Gun Safety (https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/23/hollywood-weapons-expert-alec-baldwin-ignored-no-1-rule-of-gun-safety/?fbclid=IwAR3GLZhni4v_RTC55WAhZR8Cn7-iQVeM_b6O5g0pkdbW_LoZjQJ2dAgc5vQ)

[SkBlogW]

Just sounds like someone was criminally negligent in the placing of a weapon with live rounds in it on a place where actors retrieve these items for use in the movie production.

These Old West pistols are fairly heavy as well so it would be hard to tell if these were not blanks loaded.

Oh please. This was a revolver, you know, the type of gun where you can actually see the bullets.

[Number 10 GI]

I still haven't read why live ammo was on the movie set. Who put it there and why?

[kkingston57]

Sounds like a mistake made by the person who gave him the gun. Wonder if there is a law in California which could make him criminally responsible.

Still tragic.

[manaboutown]

Sounds like a mistake made by the person who gave him the gun. Wonder if there is a law in California which could make him criminally responsible.

Still tragic.

Alec shot two people, killing one, in New Mexico, not California.

[Villageswimmer]

Very, very tragic. In an industry that constantly decries gun violence, why do they use them in movies? Double standard much?

[coffeebean]

Which caused the helicopter to crash.

Yes. I remember the incident better now that you said that. So sad.

[Kelevision]

I agree, Woodbear: I have been trained that you never ever point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at another human being unless your intent is to kill that person. I don't like Baldwin. I'm not saying he intentionally killed anyone but he should never have pointed the gun at another person, period. And then to pull the trigger? I'm guessing he was being very careless and remarkably stupid.
He was given, what he was told was a cold gun. The fault is with the prop person in charge of the gun. She was inexperienced, the movie was a poorly run production and the union crew walked out due to unsafe working conditions. A crew member that should never have touched the gun, much less handed it to and actor did told him it was cold. They were rehearsing and in all rehearsals you use a rubber gun. Never a real gun, loaded or not. He was shooting at the camera and the girl killed was the operator. He was shooting was he thought and was told was an empty gun.

[Kelevision]

To the many gun owners who want to blame Baldwin I get your point of view, but if you worked on a film set for a couple of months I believe you will walk away with a whole different aspect.
The IATSE was about to go on strike against the studios, I'm not sure they have finalized the contract yet. Most of the disputes had to do with the hours and working conditions. That's got to tell you something.
You’re correct. My job has been on sets for over 30 years. This has zero to do with Alec Baldwin. A woman was killed because an inexperienced crew member was hired because the experienced ones didn’t like the working conditions and walked off set. I will say this.. Alec being not only a producer but also the lead, he should’ve stuck up for the crew and had he done so, this possibly could have been avoided since they’d have had a better, more experienced crew. Still safety is the responsibility of the 1st AD and unfortunately, that’s the person who handed off the loaded gun saying it was cold. He’ll never work again.

[HORNET]

Then you are in denial

[tedquick]

He was given, what he was told was a cold gun. The fault is with the prop person in charge of the gun. She was inexperienced, the movie was a poorly run production and the union crew walked out due to unsafe working conditions. A crew member that should never have touched the gun, much less handed it to and actor did told him it was cold. They were rehearsing and in all rehearsals you use a rubber gun. Never a real gun, loaded or not. He was shooting at the camera and the girl killed was the operator. He was shooting was he thought and was told was an empty gun.

As I intimated, he probably did not intend to kill anyone, but any time you are handed a gun and regardless of what you are told about that gun it is your responsibility to make sure that it is safe, or if not then you must treat it differently. The gun handler is always 100% responsible for what happens with any gun in their possession.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As I intimated, he probably did not intend to kill anyone, but any time you are handed a gun and regardless of what you are told about that gun it is your responsibility to make sure that it is safe, or if not then you must treat it differently. The gun handler is always 100% responsible for what happens with any gun in their possession.

As someone who doesn't know the first thing about guns, and has no interest in learning, that's all really great info.

However - if I was on a movie set, playing cops and robbers, and given a PROP that someone said was "cold" I'd probably not check to see if there were bullets in it. I'd think - yup, it really IS cool to the touch or maybe nope, that's pretty warm, actually. And then I'd continue with the scene using the prop given to me.

Because I'm not a gun person, don't know the rules and etiquette of gun handling, and aren't interested in learning about real guns at all. I shouldn't have to care, if I'm just playing a makebelieve role with what I am told is a prop for a make-believe scene in a movie that isn't a documentary.

[Taltarzac725]

As someone who doesn't know the first thing about guns, and has no interest in learning, that's all really great info.

However - if I was on a movie set, playing cops and robbers, and given a PROP that someone said was "cold" I'd probably not check to see if there were bullets in it. I'd think - yup, it really IS cool to the touch or maybe nope, that's pretty warm, actually. And then I'd continue with the scene using the prop given to me.

Because I'm not a gun person, don't know the rules and etiquette of gun handling, and aren't interested in learning about real guns at all. I shouldn't have to care, if I'm just playing a makebelieve role with what I am told is a prop for a make-believe scene in a movie that isn't a documentary.

My basic rule when handling a gun was never keep it loaded unless you are hunting with it and always treat it as if it were loaded.

On another subject. If they were going for a sequence where a loaded pistol is fired at the audience then the bullets in the weapon would have to appear real to the audience. Especially if a real close up was involved.

[Escape Artist]

I still haven't read why live ammo was on the movie set. Who put it there and why?

Exactly. Isn't that the most obvious question? Why is no one talking about what real bullets were even doing on the set to begin with and who would load a gun with them that is being used on a movie set?

[tophcfa]

Very, very tragic. In an industry that constantly decries gun violence, why do they use them in movies? Double standard much?

Simple answer to your question. Because they want to make lots of money, so they have to make the type of movies that the most people will pay to watch. You are correct, it is a double standard. That double standard marginalizes their position on gun violence.

[Woodbear]

My basic rule when handling a gun was never keep it loaded unless you are hunting with it and always treat it as if it were loaded.

On another subject. If they were going for a sequence where a loaded pistol is fired at the audience then the bullets in the weapon would have to appear real to the audience. Especially if a real close up was involved.

Having a loaded gun is never the problem. I have loaded guns at the ready all the time. Stuff only starts to hit the fan when I put my booger finger on the bang bang switch and aim the weapon at another object/individual. A loaded gun is no more dangerous than a car with a tankful of gas. Neither item is an issue till we become actionable with the inanimate object.

[Kelevision]

Exactly. Isn't that the most obvious question? Why is no one talking about what real bullets were even doing on the set to begin with and who would load a gun with them that is being used on a movie set?

They weren’t real bullets… they were blanks. Blanks kill.

[skippy05]

He didn't check to see if it was loaded. He should go to jail for the rest of his life. Simple. End of story.

[Kelevision]

He didn't check to see if it was loaded. He should go to jail for the rest of his life. Simple. End of story.

You have no idea what you’re talking about or how the movie industry works. I bet if it was Tom Selleck you’d have a different response. I love how everyone is making the death of a 48 year old mother of a 9 year old, a political thing. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALEC BALDWIN AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH GUN SAFETY ON SETS. PERIOD. I have worked in this business, on sets, for over 30 years and still do. There is ONE person in charge of guns. ONE…. That person failed to do the job.

[Taltarzac725]

You have no idea what you’re talking about or how the movie industry works. I bet if it was Tom Selleck you’d have a different response. I love how everyone is making the death of a 48 year old mother of a 9 year old, a political thing. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALEC BALDWIN AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH GUN SAFETY ON SETS. PERIOD. I have worked in this business, on sets, for over 30 years and still do. There is ONE person in charge of guns. ONE…. That person failed to do the job.

Good. Some sense on Talk of the Villages. A lot of this is about what shows Alec Baldwin was on and when.

An actor should not be second-guessing the prop master or whatever on a movie set.

If someone gave me a loaded gun to look at here in the Villages I would unload it right then as I do not like being around a weapon with live rounds in it. If it is my hands then I am responsible for it if it goes off.

[RMHisle]

As someone who doesn't know the first thing about guns, and has no interest in learning, that's all really great info.

However - if I was on a movie set, playing cops and robbers, and given a PROP that someone said was "cold" I'd probably not check to see if there were bullets in it. I'd think - yup, it really IS cool to the touch or maybe nope, that's pretty warm, actually. And then I'd continue with the scene using the prop given to me.

Because I'm not a gun person, don't know the rules and etiquette of gun handling, and aren't interested in learning about real guns at all. I shouldn't have to care, if I'm just playing a makebelieve role with what I am told is a prop for a make-believe scene in a movie that isn't a documentary.

You have a responsibility to learn about guns from someone with competent knowledge on them, otherwise you don't pick them up.

If you are handed a firearm and told it is loaded with blanks, you personally have to check it right then and there. If you pull the trigger and it harms someone, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE.

[Taltarzac725]

8 famous people who accidentally shot themselves | The Week (https://theweek.com/articles/467814/8-famous-people-who-accidentally-shot-themselves)

I found this interesting.

I recall that a fellow Earl Wooster HS grad (Reno, Nevada) Greg LeMond got shot and nearly died in a hunting accident. Greg LeMond - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond)

[dewilson58]

I have worked in this business, on sets, for over 30 years and still do. There is ONE person in charge of guns. ONE…. That person failed to do the job.

Just because "you" are on a set does not remove personal responsibility.
"You" have a knife, a gun, explosive materials in your hand, "you" are responsible.

With safety issues on this set, "you" can't stick your head in the sand.

[dewilson58]

He was given, what he was told was a cold gun. The fault is with the prop person in charge of the gun. .

That excuse will work great on the South side of Chicago.
My fellow gang member told me it was a cold gun.

The laws are not different on a "set".
Come back to reality.

[dewilson58]

As I intimated, he probably did not intend to kill anyone, but any time you are handed a gun and regardless of what you are told about that gun it is your responsibility to make sure that it is safe, or if not then you must treat it differently. The gun handler is always 100% responsible for what happens with any gun in their possession.

:bigbow:

[jimkerr]

He is 100% responsible. He pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. He should have checked the gun himself.

[Bay Kid]

What a hypocrite, as so many in hollywood. Against guns yet makes movies using guns. He should of taken a gun safety course.

[Taltarzac725]

Just because "you" are on a set does not remove personal responsibility.
"You" have a knife, a gun, explosive materials in your hand, "you" are responsible.

With safety issues on this set, "you" can't stick your head in the sand.

Those are the rules of the job site. They have protocols in place. If some idiot actor loaded a gun with something he brought from home in his pocket replacing the usually very competent judgment of the armorer then that could create all kinds of problems.

Given how many movies have scenes with guns being fired in them, Hollywood does a very good job with the protocols they use.

In this Alec Baldwin accident we have an incompetent armorer from the looks of it.

Hate for Alec Baldwin keeps coming up on Talk of the Villages.

[dewilson58]

Those are the rules of the job site. They have protocols in place. .

But it does not change personal responsibility.

"Rules" do not change The Law.

:shocked:

[Taltarzac725]

Alec Baldwin Has Frequently Spoken Out Against NRA, Guns Rights Activists (https://www.newsweek.com/alec-baldwin-nra-guns-rights-activists-gun-control-halyna-hutchins-rust-1641671)

Alec Baldwin played it very safe on movie sets when around guns. Again this is a work site with rules that are supposed to be followed and which usually work given the very low number of gun accidents in Hollywood history.

[biker1]

Yes. This is an ironic tragedy. Baldwin has been an activist against the NRA, an organization that stresses and provides gun safety instruction.

What a hypocrite, as so many in hollywood. Against guns yet makes movies using guns. He should of taken a gun safety course.

[DaleDivine]

They weren’t real bullets… they were blanks. Blanks kill.

Blanks don't have much power after about 5 feet. For a blank to go through one person and into another person is not very likely to happen.
IT WAS A REAL BULLET!!!
:boom::boom: :bigbow:

[DaleDivine]

Yes. This is an ironic tragedy. Baldwin has been an activist against the NRA, an organization that stresses and provides gun safety instruction.

AND yet he has a CCW???
:bigbow::bigbow:

[ithos]

Alec Baldwin was the co-producer and will eventually pay out millions of dollars to the family if they decide to sue. If the claims of workers quitting over safety issues were true then that will make the eventual settlement or judgement even more substantial.

If the liberal icon wasn't such a total jerk I would have some sympathy for him.

Alec Baldwin just got into his THIRD angry confrontation today -- screaming at a female reporter, demanding cops arrest her ... and then hitting a parked car while trying to drive away.

Alec Baldwin -- BANGS INTO CAR ... After Argument With Reporter (https://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/alec-baldwin-hits-car-argument-with-reporter-video/)

Alec Baldwin -- Threatens NYC Reporter ... 'You're As Dumb as You Look' (https://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/alec-baldwin-wnyw-threat-video/)

Alec Baldwin -- I Didn't Say F*g, I Said Fathead (https://www.tmz.com/2013/11/14/alec-baldwin-fag-fathead-pap-photographer-rant-video/)

[Escape Artist]

They weren’t real bullets… they were blanks. Blanks kill.

Whaaaat??? Blanks?! Everyone's been saying a "loaded gun" and talking about how it was loaded with bullets.

If blanks are so dangerous then Baldwin should know that, as he's worked in movies and TV a long time. At least he should know enough not to point it at someone at close range and then pull the trigger. :ohdear:

[Caymus]

Whaaaat??? Blanks?! Everyone's been saying a "loaded gun" and talking about how it was loaded with bullets.

If blanks are so dangerous then Baldwin should know that, as he's worked in movies and TV a long time. At least he should know enough not to point it at someone at close range and then pull the trigger. :ohdear:

This report indicates it is not completely known.Alec Baldwin Prop Gun Live Round Allegations, Cops Say Don’t Know Yet – Deadline (https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-fatal-shooting-bullets-used-police-iatse-rust-cinematographer-halyna-hutchins-1234860697/)

[Taltarzac725]

Alec Baldwin shooting: Assistant director on 'Rust' was subject of complaints dating back to 2019 - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-halls-complaints/index.html)

It looks like it was a live round. Probably from a Colt Peacemaker like pistol.

Who Is Film Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed? (https://lawandcrime.com/celebrity/armorer-in-film-set-shooting-wanted-to-show-the-world-that-guns-are-awesome-but-said-recently-that-loading-blanks-is-like-the-scariest-thing/)

[Escape Artist]

This report indicates it is not completely known.Alec Baldwin Prop Gun Live Round Allegations, Cops Say Don’t Know Yet – Deadline (https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-fatal-shooting-bullets-used-police-iatse-rust-cinematographer-halyna-hutchins-1234860697/)

Hmmm, that sounds suspicious. Of course they would know if there was a bullet wound. Also, would a blank kill someone and then have the force to strike another person and injure them also?

[Kenswing]

Basic firearms safety rule.. Treat all firearms as if they were loaded. This was so easy to verify being that it was a revolver. You can easily see the end of the shell at the end of the cylinder. A blank and an active round are easily differentiated. The ball was dropped by each person who handled that gun. This should be treated as negligent homicide. There is no excuse for this type of mistake.

[Petersweeney]

Hillaria did it to get rid of him….

[bgamble3]

Baldwin appears to be responsible for negligent homicide. The justice system should be allowed to do it's job, and once all the facts are presented, then we can comment.

[Two Bills]

Baldwin appears to be responsible for negligent homicide. The justice system should be allowed to do it's job, and once all the facts are presented, then we can comment.

In the mean time, you have decided!

[skippy05]

YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. A man takes a gun into his hands and pulls the trigger without checking himself to see if it was loaded needs to rot in jail. Who cares what job is what person. The only thing that matters is the one who pulled the trigger.

[HORNET]

Wrong

[HORNET]

He’s an arrogant a-hole that finally got caught

[Taltarzac725]

Is the Alec Baldwin shooting a homicide? | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/578183-is-the-alec-baldwin-shooting-a-homicide)

Worth a look. I do not care for the writer, Alan Dershowitz, at all; but, his reasoning is sound and he would have an excellent grasp of the law.

[manaboutown]

///

[Number 10 GI]

Instead of all these talking heads trying to decide what crime he or others should/could be charged with or what someone should have done, FIND OUT WHY there was live ammo on a movie set! Did someone intentionally plant live ammo hoping for such an incident to occur?

[LateBoomer]

he's such an abrasive, loud-mouth d-bag, that of course he's going to catch a lot of hell for doing this, even if it was an accident. His past tweets condemning others for accidental shootings (like Dick Cheney) are coming back to haunt him. Frankly, he deserves all the condemnation he gets.

[JSR22]

Honestly, I think it was a terrible accident. They should be looking for who loaded the gun that is who should be punished not Baldwin

[Taltarzac725]

Honestly, I think it was a terrible accident. They should be looking for who loaded the gun that is who should be punished not Baldwin

That seems to be where they are investigating and the like.

Alec Baldwin should have some civil liability depending on how much control he had over the safety procedures and the like. But I see no criminal actions on his part and the victims' families would have some say in all this and they seem to not hold Alec Baldwin responsible for any of this.

[billethkid]

That seems to be where they are investigating and the like.

Alec Baldwin should have some civil liability depending on how much control he had over the safety procedures and the like. But I see no criminal actions on his part and the victims' families would have some say in all this and they seem to not hold Baldwin responsible for any of this.

They do not have enough information .....YET!

And have not been counseled by their attorney.....YET!

A crime has definitely been committed.
The letter of the law will describe who is liable for what.....live ammunition which is not allowed on the set was introduced by somebody.....knowingly!!

[Bonnevie]

It was a dreadful accident. Alec Baldwin is not a "killer". He's an actor who has probably had "cold" guns handed to him many times. He depended on the professionals who's job it was to do that.

[JSR22]

It was a dreadful accident. Alec Baldwin is not a "killer". He's an actor who has probably had "cold" guns handed to him many times. He depended on the professionals who's job it was to do that.

100% agree it was a terrible accident.

[npwalters]

I don't like him or his politics but....I believe that the cheap shots here and on other social media is uncalled for. I'm sure he is dealing with his own demons now and needs to be left alone.

[Taltarzac725]

I don't like him or his politics but....I believe that the cheap shots here and on other social media is uncalled for. I'm sure he is dealing with his own demons now and needs to be left alone.

I like him and his politics but he is certainly fighting one of his own worst nightmares. He is very far from perfect though as are most of us. He has said and done some rotten things over his 63 years or so.

What really bothers me is where all this hate is probably coming from. I should not say anything more.

[Boston-Sean]

I could go along with the "It's not his fault, they told him the gun was unloaded" people if the shot he fired was not pointed directly at the chest of another human being.

Does anyone think that if someone Baldwin cared about, like a family member, was in position to take a bullet to the chest that he would have blindly pulled the trigger?

He didn't care enough to check for himself. That's reckless. And criminal.

How about you? Would you point a gun at a family member and pull the trigger without double and triple checking to make sure it was unloaded?

If you would you are a fool and should be tossed in jail. Just like Baldwin.

[Taltarzac725]

I could go along with the "It's not his fault, they told him the gun was unloaded" people if the shot he fired was not pointed directly at the chest of another human being.

Does anyone think that if someone Baldwin cared about, like a family member, was in position to take a bullet to the chest that he would have blindly pulled the trigger?

He didn't care enough to check for himself. That's reckless. And criminal.

How about you? Would you point a gun at a family member and pull the trigger without double and triple checking to make sure it was unloaded?

If you would you are a fool and should be tossed in jail. Just like Baldwin.

There is no comparison.

This was at a movie set which was supposed to have safety protocols.

Someone messed up and it was probably the armorer as well as an assistant director.

Crew member who gave Baldwin gun subject of prior complaint (https://apnews.com/article/prop-gun-shooting-entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-new-mexico-movies-424b72535d2c25b80e445f78c4bd7f0d)

[Kelevision]

Whaaaat??? Blanks?! Everyone's been saying a "loaded gun" and talking about how it was loaded with bullets.

If blanks are so dangerous then Baldwin should know that, as he's worked in movies and TV a long time. At least he should know enough not to point it at someone at close range and then pull the trigger. :ohdear:

First, i understand your ignorance to this subject however, I personally have worked on sets for over 30 years. I’ve also directed Blue Bloods and we had many loaded weapons firing on that show. But the difference was we had professionals doing their jobs. As ALL UNION shows would have. This person was NOT union. And was 24 and had no business being in charge of a weapon.

This is a statement from the gaffer, who is the person working closely with the DP, who was killed.

I have received hundreds of calls, text messages, letters with words of support and condolences since the day of the tragedy with Halyna Hutchins, and I'm very grateful to everyone. Yes, I knew Halyna, not for a year. I worked with Her on almost all of her films. Sometimes we've shared food and water. We've been burning under the sun, freezing in the snow on the shoots. We took care of each other. Yes, I can say with 100% confidence she was my friend.
WAS!!!
I also received many calls from different mass media sources from multiple countries asking to tell what happened; also from numerous institutes and universities for the students to know what needs the most attention.
Yes, I was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Halyna during this fatal shot that took her life and injured the director Joel Souza. I was holding her in my arms while she was dying. Her blood was on my hands.
I want to tell my opinion on why this has happened. I think I have the right to do it.
It's the fault of negligence and unprofessionalism.
The negligence from the person who was supposed to check the weapon on the site did not do this; the person who had to announce that the loaded gun was on the site did not do this;
the person who should have checked this weapon before bringing it to the set did not do it.
And the DEATH OF THE HUMAN IS THE RESULT!
I'm sure that we had the professionals in every department, but one - the department that was responsible for the weapons. There is no way a twenty-four-year-old woman can be a professional with armory; there is no way that her more-or-less the same-aged friend from school, neighborhood, Instagram, or God knows where else, can be a professional in this field.
Professionals are the people who have spent years on sets, people who know this job from A to Z; These are the people who have the safety on set at the level of reflexes; they do not need to be told to put the sandbag on a tripod, fix the ladder on the stage, or fence off the explosion site. They have it in their blood.
I'm calling out to the Producers!
We have a fascinating and amazing job, but it's also dangerous. We film in the mountains, in the open water, underwater. We have explosions, shooting guns, car crashes, electricity after all, and much more.
To save a dime sometimes, you hire people who are not fully qualified for the complicated and dangerous job, and you risk the lives of the other people who are close and your lives as well.
I understand that you always fight for the budget, but you cannot allow this to happen. There should always be at least one professional in each department who knows the job. It is an absolute must to avoid such a tragedy, like the tragedy with Halyna.
I do not wish anyone to go through what I went through, what her husband @Matt Hutchins and her son Andros went through, and the actor Alec Baldwin, who has been handed a gun on set. He has to live with the thought that he took the life of the human because of unprofessional people.
Dear Producers, by hiring professionals, you are buying peace of mind for yourself and the people around you. It is true that the professionals can cost a little more and sometimes can be a little bit more demanding, but it is worth it. No saved penny is worth the LIFE of the person!
And finally, dear Producers, please remember that it's not you who are giving the opportunities to the people you hire make their money; it's the people you hire who help You make Your money. Remember this!
I also want to thank the camera operator @Ried Russell, who was with us and helped save Halyna. Thank you to the set medic @Cherlyn Schaefer who did everything she could to save Halyna's life.
We all loved Halyna.
May God Bless her soul.
Rest in Peace.
And God protect Us All.

[Kelevision]

There is no comparison.

This was at a movie set which was supposed to have safety protocols.

Someone messed up and it was probably the armorer as well as an assistant director.

Crew member who gave Baldwin gun subject of prior complaint (https://apnews.com/article/prop-gun-shooting-entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-new-mexico-movies-424b72535d2c25b80e445f78c4bd7f0d)

Correct! Both were absolutely responsible. And the person who hired the unqualified armorer. That AD will never work again. The armorer was an inexperienced 24 year old who’s father is a famous one.

[Kelevision]

That seems to be where they are investigating and the like.

Alec Baldwin should have some civil liability depending on how much control he had over the safety procedures and the like. But I see no criminal actions on his part and the victims' families would have some say in all this and they seem to not hold Alec Baldwin responsible for any of this.

Sorry but you have no idea how productions work. There is no actor who would check the gun. They have people for that. He is not even a grain of sand size responsible. It’s the 1st AD and the Armorer. PERIOD.

[Kelevision]

But it does not change personal responsibility.

"Rules" do not change The Law.

:shocked:

You are incorrect in this case. I love all you non film business people chiming in with absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Lololoolol:1rotfl:

[manaboutown]

"There is no indication that Baldwin knew that that prop gun was "live" or that he personally loaded the gun. To the contrary, recent reports indicate that he was handed the gun by an assistant director who reportedly declared "cold gun," or a gun with no live ammunition. That is notable since an earlier recorded message of a crew member complained that the incident was the fault of an assistant director, who was supposed to check the gun.

If true, Baldwin had little reason as an actor to suspect anything was wrong with the prop. The problem is that Baldwin was not simply an actor. He was also one of the producers on a site that had reportedly experienced prior discharges and complaints about site safety.

New Mexico has a provision that allows "involuntary manslaughter" charges for "the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection." If there was a pattern of neglect, including prior discharges from these prop weapons, the producers could be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Such a charge is a fourth-degree felony in New Mexico, with a penalty of 18 months jail time and up to $5,000 in fines."

From: Jonathan Turley: Alec Baldwin shooting – what are the criminal and civil liabilities? | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alec-baldwin-shooting-civil-criminal-liabilities-jonathan-turley?fbclid=IwAR0S8ZVSliml3wuIGq-nk2x05POJVh8FVb_2t3Dl2VQcE3RuG_Wl2X_LxHg)

[Joe V.]

Sorry but you have no idea how productions work. There is no actor who would check the gun. They have people for that. He is not even a grain of sand size responsible. It’s the 1st AD and the Armorer. PERIOD.

Rules do not negate laws. Unbelievable.

[Kelevision]

YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. A man takes a gun into his hands and pulls the trigger without checking himself to see if it was loaded needs to rot in jail. Who cares what job is what person. The only thing that matters is the one who pulled the trigger.

Actually, I do. I’ve worked on film sets for over 30 years. Still do. Heading to Vancouver in 2 weeks to direct a show. Just because I live in The Villages doesn’t mean I’m retired. I’m only 56. I plan on directing for another 20 years. I love my job. Just not when inexperienced people get hired and don’t do their job correctly and someone gets killed. I know exactly what the gun protocol is.

[Joe V.]

Actually, I do. I’ve worked on film sets for over 30 years. Still do. Heading to Vancouver in 2 weeks to direct a show. Just because I live in The Villages doesn’t mean I’m retired. I’m only 56. I plan on directing for another 20 years. I love my job. Just not when inexperienced people get hired and don’t do their job correctly and someone gets killed. I know exactly what the gun protocol is.

Movie set gun protocol in no ways indemnifies anyone from the law. The law is the real world.

[manaboutown]

Hopefully he will be tried in a court of law and found guilty for negligent homicide in his capacity as a producer in addition to his gross negligence in his handling of the loaded firearm. To me exacerbating the issue is the history of prior, possibly accidental, discharges of live rounds on the set. If found guilty he should be locked up and serve time just like the rest of us would have to do.

[JSR22]

Hopefully he will be tried in a court of law and found guilty for negligent homicide in his capacity as a producer in addition to his gross negligence in his handling of the loaded firearm. To me exacerbating the issue is the history of prior, possibly accidental, discharges of live rounds on the set. If found guilty he should be locked up and serve time just like the rest of us would have to do.

I wish nothing happens to Baldwin. 95% of the hateful comments are people who do not like his politics. Get over it!

[manaboutown]

I wish nothing happens to Baldwin. 95% of the hateful comments are people who do not like his politics. Get over it!

Nonsense! He himself shot and killed a woman. Furthermore he was the producer. He needs to be tried for negligent homicide.

[dewilson58]

I wish nothing happens to Baldwin. 95% of the hateful comments are people who do not like his politics. Get over it!

J4.........Love You, but I'm on the practical side. He fired a gun & killed someone. Period.

I don't care about "on the set rules", he fired a gun and killed someone. Wasn't my daughter he killed, but he kill someone's daughter.

There is no justification, he killed someone.

[JMintzer]

They weren’t real bullets… they were blanks. Blanks kill.

That is incorrect...

A blank will not go thru one person into another...

But you are partially correct. The explosive gasses from a blank round can kill. But only at VERY close range (ie, Jon-Erik Hexum, who was playing Russian Roulette with a gun loaded with blanks...)

[JMintzer]

You have a responsibility to learn about guns from someone with competent knowledge on them, otherwise you don't pick them up.

If you are handed a firearm and told it is loaded with blanks, you personally have to check it right then and there. If you pull the trigger and it harms someone, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE.

Correct...

[dewilson58]

You are incorrect in this case. I love all you non film business people chiming in with absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Lololoolol:1rotfl:

Thank You Mr. Clueless.
Hollywood thinks they have their own laws.

When someone puts a gun in their hands and fires it, it is their responsibility.
Read the law, there is no Hollywood exemption.

I don't care who he voted for..................actually, none of us know who he actually voted for.

[JMintzer]

It's nice to see that all of the Covid Virologists are also experts in firearms/armorers... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Taltarzac725]

Sorry but you have no idea how productions work. There is no actor who would check the gun. They have people for that. He is not even a grain of sand size responsible. It’s the 1st AD and the Armorer. PERIOD.

I do not see any actor checking weapons.

However, he would need to be questioned about what he had heard about gun safety or the lack of it on the set of this movie.

I am pretty sure that the lawyers will get into this.

[Kelevision]

Thank You Mr. Clueless.
Hollywood thinks they have their own laws.

When someone puts a gun in their hands and fires it, it is their responsibility.
Read the law, there is no Hollywood exemption.

I don't care who he voted for..................actually, none of us know who he actually voted for.

That would be Ms Clueless to you! Yes women can direct films and tv too. I don’t care who anyone voted for. But Alec Baldwin 100% has no responsibility for this. When I directed Tom on Blue Bloods, nobody discussed politics.

[manaboutown]

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M.—A crew member says she has raised safety concerns in the past about the assistant director who authorities say unwittingly handed actor Alec Baldwin the prop gun that killed a cinematographer on a film set.

Maggie Goll, a prop maker and licensed pyrotechnician, said in a statement that she filed an internal complaint with the executive producers of Hulu’s “Into the Dark” series in 2019 over concerns about assistant director Dave Halls’ behavior on set. Goll said in a phone interview Sunday that Halls disregarded safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics and tried to continue filming after the supervising pyrotechnician lost consciousness on set.

Halls has not returned phone calls and email messages seeking comment.

This week’s fatal shooting and some of her previous experiences point to larger safety issues that need to be addressed, Goll said, adding that crew member safety and wellbeing are top issues in ongoing contract negotiations between a union that represents film and TV workers and a major producers’ group.

Goll said it should not have happened because there are “so many steps that you have to go through … that the possibility of it even getting there should be impossible.”

Actor Ray Liotta agreed that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

“They always—that I know of—they check it so you can see,” Liotta said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

Rust Movie Productions has not answered repeated emails seeking comment.

From: Assistant Director Who Gave Alec Baldwin Prop Gun Subject to Prior Complaint (https://www.ntd.com/assistant-director-who-gave-alec-baldwin-prop-gun-subject-to-prior-complaint_692964.html?fbclid=IwAR0GPuDGTUXuVSf1V5F mroa2tk_W0A7KJrc-UrRnbedAdmy2i8q0QPc0Xz8)

[manaboutown]

Whatever the outcome I hope and pray Tamalewood which is what New Mexicans call filming in New Mexico, will not take a hit.

Many Hollywood studios are moving to New Mexico to take advantage of tax breaks. ... Despite the pandemic, 26 film and 24 television projects have been produced in the state, according to New Mexico's Economic Development Department.Jul 22, 2021

Hollywood leaving California for New Mexico tax incentives | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/entertainment/hollywood-moves-to-new-mexico-as-state-offers-industry-tax-incentive)

[Kelevision]

I do not see any actor checking weapons.

However, he would need to be questioned about what he had heard about gun safety or the lack of it on the set of this movie.

I am pretty sure that the lawyers will get into this.

The issue is the 1st AD, who is in charge of safety on the set and also should never be handing out a gun, gave it to him and said cold gun. The armorer told him the guns were cold. He shouldn’t have taken her word but the actor has to be able to fully trust the first AD. That’s who dropped the ball here and whoever hired the inexperienced armorer. IF, it had been a hot weapon, they have what’s called a safety meeting and the entire crew has to be there to hear what to do in case anything happens. They make all the crew stand outside the danger zone, put plexiglass in front of the cameras and check all the gun chambers. Since this was a “cold” gun, none of this was done. Again, how can the 1st AD not be blamed. He did so many things wrong. I certainly am not defending Alec Baldwin. I hear he’s not the nicest to work with but I don’t know for sure. Regardless, he’s just not at fault. You can use 1/4 loads( which is always what I’ve used when shooting) 1/2 or full loads.

[dewilson58]

It's nice to see that all of the Covid Virologists are also experts in firearms/armorers... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

[Kelevision]

Whatever the outcome I hope and pray Tamalewood which is what New Mexicans call filming in New Mexico, will not take a hit.

Many Hollywood studios are moving to New Mexico to take advantage of tax breaks. ... Despite the pandemic, 26 film and 24 television projects have been produced in the state, according to New Mexico's Economic Development Department.Jul 22, 2021

Hollywood leaving California for New Mexico tax incentives | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/entertainment/hollywood-moves-to-new-mexico-as-state-offers-industry-tax-incentive)
It will simply because the crew person who failed to do their job was local NM. The argument will be the quality/unqualified crew in NM so more will go back to LA. I also think there’s a problem with rush training these locals. There was an accident in Atlanta years back with a friend of mine getting killed on a train track. Though, that was the directors fault and he did go to jail.

[Kelevision]

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M.—A crew member says she has raised safety concerns in the past about the assistant director who authorities say unwittingly handed actor Alec Baldwin the prop gun that killed a cinematographer on a film set.

Maggie Goll, a prop maker and licensed pyrotechnician, said in a statement that she filed an internal complaint with the executive producers of Hulu’s “Into the Dark” series in 2019 over concerns about assistant director Dave Halls’ behavior on set. Goll said in a phone interview Sunday that Halls disregarded safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics and tried to continue filming after the supervising pyrotechnician lost consciousness on set.

Halls has not returned phone calls and email messages seeking comment.

This week’s fatal shooting and some of her previous experiences point to larger safety issues that need to be addressed, Goll said, adding that crew member safety and wellbeing are top issues in ongoing contract negotiations between a union that represents film and TV workers and a major producers’ group.

Goll said it should not have happened because there are “so many steps that you have to go through … that the possibility of it even getting there should be impossible.”

Actor Ray Liotta agreed that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

“They always—that I know of—they check it so you can see,” Liotta said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

Rust Movie Productions has not answered repeated emails seeking comment.

From: Assistant Director Who Gave Alec Baldwin Prop Gun Subject to Prior Complaint (https://www.ntd.com/assistant-director-who-gave-alec-baldwin-prop-gun-subject-to-prior-complaint_692964.html?fbclid=IwAR0GPuDGTUXuVSf1V5F mroa2tk_W0A7KJrc-UrRnbedAdmy2i8q0QPc0Xz8)

This is 100% accurate.

[Kenswing]

My basic rule when handling a gun was never keep it loaded unless you are hunting with it and always treat it as if it were loaded.

On another subject. If they were going for a sequence where a loaded pistol is fired at the audience then the bullets in the weapon would have to appear real to the audience. Especially if a real close up was involved.My basic rule is to always keep my gun loaded. That way I never have to guess. Rule #1 - Always keep your firearm pointed in a safe direction unless you plan on shooting someone. Rule #2 - Treat all firearms as if they were loaded. Pretty simple stuff.

[Kelevision]

/////

[Boston-Sean]

Lots of people in this thread who should never be allowed near a firearm.

[Taltarzac725]

Whatever the outcome I hope and pray Tamalewood which is what New Mexicans call filming in New Mexico, will not take a hit.

Many Hollywood studios are moving to New Mexico to take advantage of tax breaks. ... Despite the pandemic, 26 film and 24 television projects have been produced in the state, according to New Mexico's Economic Development Department.Jul 22, 2021

Hollywood leaving California for New Mexico tax incentives | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/entertainment/hollywood-moves-to-new-mexico-as-state-offers-industry-tax-incentive)

New Mexico is quite a beautiful state with a lot of gorgeous scenery. I hope the state can retain the movie industry there.

[manaboutown]

New Mexico is quite a beautiful state with a lot of gorgeous scenery. I hope the state can retain the movie industry there.

I have been in New Mexico since early October for the Balloon Fiesta and other reasons and leaving today. Surprisingly not one person here has mentioned this incident to me as other pressing matters largely centered around healthcare difficulties due to the pandemic and crime have taken center stage.

[Two Bills]

Lots of people in this thread who should never be allowed near a firearm.

........and even more not allowed near a jury room!

[Woodbear]

Given the era of the movie, Baldwin would have a single action revolver in his hand. So not only did he pull the trigger, he would have cocked the hammer (thereby rotating the cylinder) to set the gun up to fire. Makes you wonder how many live rounds were in that gun.

[manaboutown]

More is being revealed.

Alec Baldwin accidental shooting details emerge offering look at Halyna Hutchins''' final moments | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-accidental-shooting-details-halyna-hutchins-death?fbclid=IwAR1oyDq9W7l8ncmLd80rur8p-0f51_6QjGNKLaCsz2QPC9X18_X7XQ5CiFg)

[JMintzer]

More is being revealed.

Alec Baldwin accidental shooting details emerge offering look at Halyna Hutchins''' final moments | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-accidental-shooting-details-halyna-hutchins-death?fbclid=IwAR1oyDq9W7l8ncmLd80rur8p-0f51_6QjGNKLaCsz2QPC9X18_X7XQ5CiFg)

From the link:

"While demonstrating, the firearm went off."

No, Mr Baldwin pulled the trigger... The firearm did exactly what it was designed to do...

[Joe C.]

Alec is an anti second amendment nut. And he doesn't know crap about firearms. He should have checked the firearm before using it.
There are strict rules about gun handling, and evidently, he didn't follow them.
A gun is always loaded.
Never point a gun at anybody unless you intend to shoot them.
Never put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. etc...etc...etc.

[PugMom]

Very, very tragic. In an industry that constantly decries gun violence, why do they use them in movies? Double standard much?

:clap2::clap2::bigbow:

[Lindsyburnsy]

Reports are that he was rehearsing a scene where he points the gun directly at the camera. That is probably the vicinity of the cinematographer.
Let’s wait to hear about the investigation. Anything is possible.
QUOTE=Woodbear;2020284]Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.[/QUOTE]

[Wyseguy]

Lee was shot with a real bullet. Same thing?

Was it a real bullet?. I thought it was a squib load. Never a real bullet. First they used a prop bullet with the powder removed and the primer intact. When the then placed a blank in (primer, powder but no bullet) it was enough to force out the slug inside the barrel. That is what I recall. Could be wrong.

[Taltarzac725]

‘I don’t hold Alec Baldwin responsible,’ says father of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins - syracuse.com (https://www.syracuse.com/celebrity-news/2021/10/i-dont-hold-alec-baldwin-responsible-says-father-of-cinematographer-halyna-hutchins.html)

This has more information.

[JMintzer]

Was it a real bullet?. I thought it was a squib load. Never a real bullet. First they used a prop bullet with the powder removed and the primer intact. When the then placed a blank in (primer, powder but no bullet) it was enough to force out the slug inside the barrel. That is what I recall. Could be wrong.

Kinda' correct... From the official report:

"Hollowed-out cartridges are often used to film close-ups of a gun being loaded; the “dummy” cartridges are then supposed to be removed and replaced with blanks before being fired. The police investigation into Lee’s death concluded that a tip of one of the cartridge’s bullets broke off from the cartridge and lodged in the gun, then fired at Lee along with the blank."

[Boston-Sean]

Kinda' correct... From the official report:

"Hollowed-out cartridges are often used to film close-ups of a gun being loaded; the “dummy” cartridges are then supposed to be removed and replaced with blanks before being fired. The police investigation into Lee’s death concluded that a tip of one of the cartridge’s bullets broke off from the cartridge and lodged in the gun, then fired at Lee along with the blank."


This happened a few days ago. I doubt there already is an "Official Report".

Do you have a link?

[JMintzer]

This happened a few days ago. I doubt there already is an "Official Report".

Do you have a link?

I was commenting on a reference to Brandon Lee's death, back in 1993...

[tvbound]

So many failures in procedures and common sense occurred, for this to ever have happened. I hope a detailed investigation, identifies each and every one of them. I also hope that whomever brought a live round on to the set in the first place, is also identified and this isn't an instance of a disgruntled employee/ex-employee, purposely sneaking in a live round in the hopes that there would just be a 'close-call.' It's also obvious that there's a deep hatred for Baldwin, because of his excellent and dead-on impersonations. I have personally disliked him, since his abhorrent voice mail to his own 11 year old daughter was made public.

[Boston-Sean]

An attorney who specializes in self defense/firearms law weighs in and it's not good news for Alec Baldwin.

Clearly a case of Felony Involuntary Manslaughter based on New Mexico law. And it gets worse for Baldwin. The New Mexico Supreme Court ruling on a similar case specifically stated that who loaded the gun is not relevant. Only that the defendant handled it improperly.

Of course we could have a Soros prosecutor in New Mexico and Baldwin never gets charged.

Legal Analysis: Alec Baldwin Situation Beginning to Look a Lot Like Manslaughter - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upDuj8EcYeg)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Just an FYI regarding "involuntary manslaughter." This is the legal term for when you do something that isn't illegal, and it causes someone else's death. A charge must be filed when that happens, and that charge is "involuntary manslaughter." It means you're not guilty of any actual crime, but your actions directly resulted in someone else being dead..

That's what the driver of the car was charged with, when my friend and I ran into them on my moped one day. We were going down the wrong way on a one-way street into a major intersection, and didn't stop. Jimi flipped over the car and died four days later. I was in the hospital for two weeks.

It was CLEARLY Jimi's fault, he was driving the moped. But back then in Massachusetts where this happened, there was no registration/licensing/insuring for mopeds, they were still considered pedestrian vehicles - motorized bicycles. Since it was the impact with the car that caused Jimi's death, the driver of the car got charged with involuntary manslaughter. It's a technicality, a place-holder for the records.

Charges were brought, charges were dropped, no trial, no judgment. It just had to be on file. Involuntary manslaughter is the common charge for these kinds of situations.

[camaguey48]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.
He should have thought about taking a gun safety course. First and most important rule of gun safety. Treat every weapon as if it's loaded.

[Boston-Sean]

Santa Fe authorities say no one has been ruled out of facing charges and a crime has certainly been committed in Alec Baldwin case


---

If they determine that someone or multiple people are going to be charged, Baldwin for sure will be one of them.

[jimmio]

Maybe not....he was the producer for the film AND the union folks walked of the set that same morning citing safety concerns...he could have a whole lot of responsibility in this besides just pulling the trigger.

Replacement worker was in charge of Alec Baldwin's deadly prop gun (https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/)

Ironic that the same day the crew walked off the set citing safety concerns this happens?
I have no idea, nor do you who is to blame at this point.
I just find it ironic?

[Boston-Sean]

I have no idea, nor do you who is to blame at this point.


Assuming the gun was in the hands of Alec Baldwin, Yes I do.

[Gulfcoast]

It sounds as though the young woman who was shot and killed was in back of a camera getting a shot of Alec Baldwin's character "firing" the gun. The producer was standing behind the woman and the bullet hit him, too. The gun was a prop and wasn't actually supposed to fire bullets.

I think that Baldwin is a bit of a jerk but he's the actor on the set and someone yelled "cold gun" before he picked that gun up to rehearse with it.

[Caymus]

The gun was a prop and wasn't actually supposed to fire bullets.



His was a "real" gun.

Live bullet was in gun fired by Alec Baldwin in fatal movie-set shooting: Sheriff (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/live-bullet-was-in-gun-fired-by-alec-baldwin-in-fatal-movie-set-shooting-sheriff/ar-AAQ1aCz?ocid=uxbndlbing)

[Boston-Sean]

It sounds as though the young woman who was shot and killed was in back of a camera getting a shot of Alec Baldwin's character "firing" the gun. The producer was standing behind the woman and the bullet hit him, too. The gun was a prop and wasn't actually supposed to fire bullets.

I think that Baldwin is a bit of a jerk but he's the actor on the set and someone yelled "cold gun" before he picked that gun up to rehearse with it.

It was a real gun.

And apparently this was a rehearsal of the scene. It was not being filmed. Which makes it even more reckless that Baldwin pointed a real gun at the chest of another person and pulled the trigger.

[manaboutown]

Nolte: Veteran Prop Master Refused Job on Alec Baldwin Film Due to Safety Concerns (https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/26/nolte-veteran-prop-master-refused-job-on-alec-baldwin-film-due-to-safety-concerns/?fbclid=IwAR1JbITyjjzFaDONrd6s-R2XugZgiyNfQkRadnAK8TQdOOPbBIa9biGv62U)

[manaboutown]

Alec Baldwin'''s '''Rust''' movie shooting: Criminal charges '''on the table,''' district attorney says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-shooting-criminal-charges-on-the-table-district-attorney?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR0y5aBJWwKmmx7izWjlFh_O6UZqIEKmuvQTAgKYb 2bT-2OOUUdzelndFxA)

[Escape Artist]

It was a real gun.

And apparently this was a rehearsal of the scene. It was not being filmed. Which makes it even more reckless that Baldwin pointed a real gun at the chest of another person and pulled the trigger.

Someone earlier in this thread claimed there were blanks in the gun not real bullets. Now we're hearing it they were the real thing. Which is it?

There's two things at play here:

1 - Why were real bullets loaded into a gun that was being used on a movie set?

2) Did Baldwin know the gun was loaded - or when he heard "cold gun" did he think that mean it had no bullets of any kind? Because even if they were blanks, they could still hurt someone if fired at close range. If he thought it was loaded with blanks, then it still raises the question why would you pull the trigger during a rehearsal and fire blanks at someone?

[JMintzer]

Someone earlier in this thread claimed there were blanks in the gun not real bullets. Now we're hearing it they were the real thing. Which is it?

There's two things at play here:

1 - Why were real bullets loaded into a gun that was being used on a movie set?

2) Did Baldwin know the gun was loaded - or when he heard "cold gun" did he think that mean it had no bullets of any kind? Because even if they were blanks, they could still hurt someone if fired at close range. If he thought it was loaded with blanks, then it still raises the question why would you pull the trigger during a rehearsal and fire blanks at someone?

It doesn't matter that he may or may not have heard "cold gun"...

You still check for yourself...

The armorer, who was supposed to be in charge of the weapons, was nowhere to be found, so the AD took over. A BIG mistake...

As to the "real bullets", there are reports that the guns were being used (after hours) for "plinking" in the desert... Another HUGE lapse in judgement...

[Gulfcoast]

Someone earlier in this thread claimed there were blanks in the gun not real bullets. Now we're hearing it they were the real thing. Which is it?

There's two things at play here:

1 - Why were real bullets loaded into a gun that was being used on a movie set?

2) Did Baldwin know the gun was loaded - or when he heard "cold gun" did he think that mean it had no bullets of any kind? Because even if they were blanks, they could still hurt someone if fired at close range. If he thought it was loaded with blanks, then it still raises the question why would you pull the trigger during a rehearsal and fire blanks at someone?

Why would the camera person be standing there getting a shot of the actor shooting a gun if she thought she was going to get shot?

It's pretty doubtful that Baldwin loaded the gun or knew that the gun was loaded. And it's pretty doubtful that either the camera lady or the producer were aware that the gun was loaded with one or more real bullets.

I've never worked on a set but I would imagine that actors/actresses aren't the ones responsible for things like prop safety and which gun is safe to use when. Those logistics are handled by a safety specialist on the crew.

I guess the question is 1) Who loaded the gun 2) Who gave Baldwin that particular gun to use 3) Who yelled "cold gun" giving Baldwin and the two victims a false belief that the gun was o.k. to practice with.

It does not sound as though Baldwin was goofing off and being an arse. It doesn't sound as though he had a beef with the two who got shot. It really does sound as though the camera person was trying to get shots of Baldwin "shooting" the weapon for a scene that they were working on. Now law enforcement needs to figure out how Baldwin wound up shooting a loaded weapon at those two victims.

[JMintzer]

Now law enforcement needs to figure out how Baldwin wound up shooting a loaded weapon at those two victims.

Very simple answer. He was handed a loaded gun and didn't check to see if it was loaded...

[manaboutown]

Nicolas Cage Stormed Off Set After Working with Rookie 'Rust' Armorer: 'She Needs to Be Let Go' - Report (https://www.westernjournal.com/nicolas-cage-stormed-off-set-working-rookie-rust-armorer-needs-let-go-report/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2021-10-25&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR2e26oZEH1AuzhEznVrCGkG5RtxGlmpmIibpjsY9 Es_wj-90t9YYdnRozI)

[JMintzer]

Nicolas Cage Stormed Off Set After Working with Rookie 'Rust' Armorer: 'She Needs to Be Let Go' - Report (https://www.westernjournal.com/nicolas-cage-stormed-off-set-working-rookie-rust-armorer-needs-let-go-report/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2021-10-25&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR2e26oZEH1AuzhEznVrCGkG5RtxGlmpmIibpjsY9 Es_wj-90t9YYdnRozI)

Word is was that she was a "nepotism" hire. Her father is a well respected Hollywood armorer...

[Escape Artist]

Very simple answer. He was handed a loaded gun and didn't check to see if it was loaded...

Okay, then maybe criminal negligence instead of involuntary manslaughter?

[Gulfcoast]

Word is was that she was a "nepotism" hire. Her father is a well respected Hollywood armorer...

You mean like the Baldwin Brothers?

Almost all of those Hollywood people are nepotism hires.

[JMintzer]

Okay, then maybe criminal negligence instead of involuntary manslaughter?

Well, since I never mentioned either, I'd tend to agree with the negligent homicide charge...

[JMintzer]

You mean like the Baldwin Brothers?

Almost all of those Hollywood people are nepotism hires.

Hey Stephen Baldwin was "brilliant" in Bio-Dome! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

You mean like the Baldwin Brothers?

Almost all of those Hollywood people are nepotism hires.

Except that no lives were lost because of their nepotism... Careers? Maybe... :icon_wink:

[Kelevision]

Word is was that she was a "nepotism" hire. Her father is a well respected Hollywood armorer...

This was only her 2nd job and as you see, she was fired from her first one. To be a prop master or armorer you need lots of experience. There’s no way a 24 year old could possibly have that amount of experience. But then there’s also the 1st assistant director. That is the person in charge of all safety on set. The protocol for a cold gun on set is for the armorer to bring the gun on set, in front of the crew, show the 1st AD and crew/actors that the gun is empty, they do this every single time a real gun is brought onto the set. I’ve worked on sets for 30+ years and have never, not once NOT seen this happen. It’s tedious and we’ve all seen it a hundred times, but it still has to happen EVERY SINGLE TIME a gun is brought on set. The AD, not only didn’t do his job, he picked up the gun and handed to the actor yelling cold gun. There are so many balls dropped by this guy that I almost forget the armorer is even involved. Then there are the 2 additional accidental misfires on the set 2 days prior, which led to safety phone calls made by crew members and crew members walking off the set. At this point, any good producer would’ve gotten involved. Movies have like 20 producers but most are vanity credits. All but maybe 3 are. The Line Producer and UPM are the 2 responsible for production and hiring. I worked with the Line Producer on Rust a few years back where she was an office PA, which is the lowest possible position on any production. Now she’s doing the highest position? This production was filled with inexperienced people and that is the issue. We all know who’s to blame and the names are David Halls, first AD and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, armorer. Don’t forget, this happened back in the 90’s where an actor shot and killed Brandon Lee during a scene where a wad of something got lodged into the chamber and the blank killed him. There were no charges to the actor who pulled the trigger but that’s when the gun protocol went into affect. Also, NOBODY is supposed to touch the gun, except the armorer. Certainly unheard of for an AD to pick up a gun off a cart and hand it to an actor. He’s admitted he didn’t check the gun prior to handing it over to an actor.

[camaguey48]

−
Baldwin didn’t accidentally fire the revolver, he negligently fired the revolver after failing to check to see if it contained live rounds.
People that are competent with firearms know there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm.

[Bay Kid]

−
Baldwin didn’t accidentally fire the revolver, he negligently fired the revolver after failing to check to see if it contained live rounds.
People that are competent with firearms know there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm.

So true. Can't blame anyone else but himself. He should of taken a gun handling course.

[Kelevision]

So true. Can't blame anyone else but himself. He should of taken a gun handling course.

If only you knew what you were talking about. :ohdear: It’s the fault of the first assistant director and the armorer PERIOD. Just because you don’t like Alec Baldwin’s politics, doesn’t make him responsible. The actor who pulled trigger and killed Brandon Lee is certainly walking around free and so is the prop master/armorer who failed to check that gun. That was before the first AD was in charge of safety. Used to be the key grip.

[bilcon]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

The first thing you learn when handling guns is: Don't point a gun at anyone or anything unless you intend to shoot it. Why was he pointing a gun in the direction of the camera person and then pulling the trigger? Heads will roll on this one.

[Kelevision]

−
Baldwin didn’t accidentally fire the revolver, he negligently fired the revolver after failing to check to see if it contained live rounds.
People that are competent with firearms know there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm.

The gun was handed to him, by his first ad, who told him it was a cold gun. The AD’s job is to make sure the gun is cold by having the armorer open the barrel and literally show him. Then the armorer hands the gun to the actor. NOT the AD. The AD’s job is safety on set……….SAFETY ON SET…….This is from his previous show….

Dave Halls, the Rust assistant director was terminated on the spot after a gun “unexpectedly discharged” on his watch.
“I can confirm that Dave Halls was fired from the set of Freedom’s Path in 2019 after a crew member incurred a minor and temporary injury when a gun was unexpectedly discharged. Halls was removed from set immediately after the prop gun discharged. Production did not resume filming until Dave was off-site,” the producer said in the statement. “An incident report was taken and filed at that time.”

[Nick B]

Why were non-actors shot? Why was he pointing a gun at a non-actor and pulling the trigger? Even the blanks will have some report for which you would not want to point it at someone.
She was the camera person they shoot at the camera to get that Wow shot. Not a good idea but that's what they do.

[Kelevision]

She was the camera person they shoot at the camera to get that Wow shot. Not a good idea but that's what they do.

They were rehearsing. He was sitting in a pew, with what he was told was a cold gun, he was practicing drawing the gun. It was, not sure of the term, when you draw with the opposite hand as the holster. That’s when the gun went off. They had 2 accidental discharges with guns on that set days prior. In the history of Hollywood this has happened only twice. The first time with Brandon Lee, is when the strict gun rules were put in place. The first AD on Rust did NOT follow the protocol. He is in charge of safety. He failed at his duties as did the armorer.

[manaboutown]

Adam Baldwin weighs in: 'BS': Adam Baldwin Debunks Pathetic Lie That Alec Baldwin's Fatal Shooting on Set Was Not His Fault (https://www.westernjournal.com/bs-adam-baldwin-debunks-pathetic-lie-alec-baldwins-fatal-shooting-set-not-fault/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=teaparty&utm_content=2021-10-27&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR2tkWXlQdyZl5s9cMNSxlRmMLNZaqvxm82OA8V-5haUq9laOiD9h_zn_zs)

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Exactly what are you trying to say , I can’t figure it out , but I think it was an unclear attempt at trolling in response to post 210

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Exactly what are you trying to say , I can’t figure it out , but I think it was an unclear attempt at trollingonly read last page but are there more like this?!

[NoMoSno]

Maybe it's time the industry changes its protocol.
The person doing the shooting should also check the firearm before pulling the trigger.
If someone hands me a gun and tells me it's unloaded, I don't take their word for it. I check it also.
Basic firearm safety.

[mraines]

He has no blame in this as he does not supply the equipment used on the film set. Time will tell if some ******* tried to sabotage the film being made by putting live rounds in the guns used while filming. They shut down other movies being made in the same vicinity.

I like Alec Baldwin, however, as producer of this film, he does have some responsibility. Also, as the actor handling the gun, he was supposed to check. I have friends in the industry who were about to strike due to safety issues as well as pay issues. The streaming outlets do not want to pay. Non union crew do no necessarily follow the rules as the union crews do. A very sad situation. I feel for all involved. Negligence led to an unnecessary death.

[Wyseguy]

Hey Stephen Baldwin was "brilliant" in Bio-Dome! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


Was he in that movie? I thought it was the weasel guy (also a result of nepotism. His mom owns the comedy club(s) in CA.

[Kelevision]

Was he in that movie? I thought it was the weasel guy (also a result of nepotism. His mom owns the comedy club(s) in CA.

Nepotism is with any job. That armorer didn’t get the job because her dad put in a good word for her, or told someone to hire her. The producers who hired her are also inexperienced and assumed that she was probably very good at her job since her dad was a very experienced one. It’s the same with any job. A lawyer’s child becomes a lawyer and takes over the practice. Doctors are the same. It’s any and every business. There are also children of famous people who are dying to work but can’t get hired because of who they are. Nicolas Cage changed his last name from Scorsese to Cage because he didn’t want people to know Martin Scorsese is his uncle.

[Number 10 GI]

This was only her 2nd job and as you see, she was fired from her first one. To be a prop master or armorer you need lots of experience. There’s no way a 24 year old could possibly have that amount of experience. But then there’s also the 1st assistant director. That is the person in charge of all safety on set. The protocol for a cold gun on set is for the armorer to bring the gun on set, in front of the crew, show the 1st AD and crew/actors that the gun is empty, they do this every single time a real gun is brought onto the set. I’ve worked on sets for 30+ years and have never, not once NOT seen this happen. It’s tedious and we’ve all seen it a hundred times, but it still has to happen EVERY SINGLE TIME a gun is brought on set. The AD, not only didn’t do his job, he picked up the gun and handed to the actor yelling cold gun. There are so many balls dropped by this guy that I almost forget the armorer is even involved. Then there are the 2 additional accidental misfires on the set 2 days prior, which led to safety phone calls made by crew members and crew members walking off the set. At this point, any good producer would’ve gotten involved. Movies have like 20 producers but most are vanity credits. All but maybe 3 are. The Line Producer and UPM are the 2 responsible for production and hiring. I worked with the Line Producer on Rust a few years back where she was an office PA, which is the lowest possible position on any production. Now she’s doing the highest position? This production was filled with inexperienced people and that is the issue. We all know who’s to blame and the names are David Halls, first AD and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, armorer. Don’t forget, this happened back in the 90’s where an actor shot and killed Brandon Lee during a scene where a wad of something got lodged into the chamber and the blank killed him. There were no charges to the actor who pulled the trigger but that’s when the gun protocol went into affect. Also, NOBODY is supposed to touch the gun, except the armorer. Certainly unheard of for an AD to pick up a gun off a cart and hand it to an actor. He’s admitted he didn’t check the gun prior to handing it over to an actor.

Then Baldwin, as a producer and actor, should have know that protocol was not followed and should have called it out, and checked the gun himself. Baldwin is the producer and in charge of the filming operations so he should be held responsible for this tragedy.

[JMintzer]

This was only her 2nd job and as you see, she was fired from her first one. To be a prop master or armorer you need lots of experience. There’s no way a 24 year old could possibly have that amount of experience. But then there’s also the 1st assistant director. That is the person in charge of all safety on set. The protocol for a cold gun on set is for the armorer to bring the gun on set, in front of the crew, show the 1st AD and crew/actors that the gun is empty, they do this every single time a real gun is brought onto the set. I’ve worked on sets for 30+ years and have never, not once NOT seen this happen. It’s tedious and we’ve all seen it a hundred times, but it still has to happen EVERY SINGLE TIME a gun is brought on set. The AD, not only didn’t do his job, he picked up the gun and handed to the actor yelling cold gun. There are so many balls dropped by this guy that I almost forget the armorer is even involved. Then there are the 2 additional accidental misfires on the set 2 days prior, which led to safety phone calls made by crew members and crew members walking off the set. At this point, any good producer would’ve gotten involved. Movies have like 20 producers but most are vanity credits. All but maybe 3 are. The Line Producer and UPM are the 2 responsible for production and hiring. I worked with the Line Producer on Rust a few years back where she was an office PA, which is the lowest possible position on any production. Now she’s doing the highest position? This production was filled with inexperienced people and that is the issue. We all know who’s to blame and the names are David Halls, first AD and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, armorer. Don’t forget, this happened back in the 90’s where an actor shot and killed Brandon Lee during a scene where a wad of something got lodged into the chamber and the blank killed him. There were no charges to the actor who pulled the trigger but that’s when the gun protocol went into affect. Also, NOBODY is supposed to touch the gun, except the armorer. Certainly unheard of for an AD to pick up a gun off a cart and hand it to an actor. He’s admitted he didn’t check the gun prior to handing it over to an actor.

You stated that "the actors" are shown that the gun is empty... And that that didn't happen...

Baldwin has been on many movie sets with guns. He knows the drill. He should have checked...

And yes, the "armorer" was incompetent and it's being reported she was nowhere to be found...

That still doesn't excuse what happened down the chain of custody...

[JMintzer]

−
Baldwin didn’t accidentally fire the revolver, he negligently fired the revolver after failing to check to see if it contained live rounds.
People that are competent with firearms know there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm.

Prezactly!

And don't forget, Baldwin has a CCW from NYC (which is almost impossible to get), so he's had the requisite training...

[JMintzer]

If only you knew what you were talking about. :ohdear: It’s the fault of the first assistant director and the armorer PERIOD. Just because you don’t like Alec Baldwin’s politics, doesn’t make him responsible. The actor who pulled trigger and killed Brandon Lee is certainly walking around free and so is the prop master/armorer who failed to check that gun. That was before the first AD was in charge of safety. Used to be the key grip.

Good thing laws don't change in 30 years... PERIOD.

[JMintzer]

The first thing you learn when handling guns is: Don't point a gun at anyone or anything unless you intend to shoot it. Why was he pointing a gun in the direction of the camera person and then pulling the trigger? Heads will roll on this one.

Because they wanted a "point of view" shot of him firing the gun...

[JMintzer]

The gun was handed to him, by his first ad, who told him it was a cold gun. The AD’s job is to make sure the gun is cold by having the armorer open the barrel and literally show him. Then the armorer hands the gun to the actor. NOT the AD. The AD’s job is safety on set……….SAFETY ON SET…….This is from his previous show….

Just because you keep repeating yourself, doesn't make it true...

[JMintzer]

They were rehearsing. He was sitting in a pew, with what he was told was a cold gun, he was practicing drawing the gun. It was, not sure of the term, when you draw with the opposite hand as the holster. That’s when the gun went off. They had 2 accidental discharges with guns on that set days prior. In the history of Hollywood this has happened only twice. The first time with Brandon Lee, is when the strict gun rules were put in place. The first AD on Rust did NOT follow the protocol. He is in charge of safety. He failed at his duties as did the armorer.

It's called a "cross draw"...

And guns don't just "go off"... Someone must pull the trigger...

And there is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge. It's called a "negligent" discharge...

[JMintzer]

Maybe it's time the industry changes its protocol.
The person doing the shooting should also check the firearm before pulling the trigger.
If someone hands me a gun and tells me it's unloaded, I don't take their word for it. I check it also.
Basic firearm safety.

From what I've read, it's supposed to be checked with the crew/actor present.

If that was not done, the actor should have done it himself...

Here's a question...

If the scene required Baldwin to play Russian Roulette with the gun, do you think he would have simply trusted someone who claimed "cold gun"? Or would he have checked it himself, to make sure?

[JMintzer]

Was he in that movie? I thought it was the weasel guy (also a result of nepotism. His mom owns the comedy club(s) in CA.

Pauly Shore... Yes, both of them were in that movie...

[JMintzer]

Nepotism is with any job. That armorer didn’t get the job because her dad put in a good word for her, or told someone to hire her. The producers who hired her are also inexperienced and assumed that she was probably very good at her job since her dad was a very experienced one. It’s the same with any job. A lawyer’s child becomes a lawyer and takes over the practice. Doctors are the same. It’s any and every business. There are also children of famous people who are dying to work but can’t get hired because of who they are. Nicolas Cage changed his last name from Scorsese to Cage because he didn’t want people to know Martin Scorsese is his uncle.

Doctors and Lawyers kids still have to get thru law/medical school...

Oh, and never ASSUME anything...

[Kelevision]

Good thing laws don't change in 30 years... PERIOD.

The laws did change after that. That’s when the strict gun protocol came into play. The prop person or armorer brings the gun on set and show’s the Assistant Director that it’s an empty gun, they open the chamber, show him, spin the barrel, at which point the assistant director, the person on set in charge of safety, says cold gun….. None of those things happened on this show. I’ve worked on over 700 episodes of television as a director for 30 years from Blue Bloods to Sleepy Hollow, Dexter to Entourage and I’ve never, not once, not seen this protocol happen. I’m baffled at the fact that it happened and the AD admitted he hadn’t actually checked the gun before yelling cold gun and handing to an actor. I couldn’t care less about Alec Baldwin’s politics or career. If I never see him again, I wouldn’t lose sleep, if he was in something i wanted to watch , I’d watch. I’m only trying to explain the way productions work and the first AD and Armorer are to blame. I’m a member of the DGA, there’s giant thread on that calling for the assistant director to be banned from the union. Perhaps where Alec failed was not being proactive and using his set experience to notice the red flags but as a producer, it’s a credit only just like all the writers and a best friend of someone. There are only 3 (give or take) actual producers who hire and are in charge. Yet there will be 20 listed. We call them vanity credits. They mean nothing. I was a producer for 7 years on a show and couldn’t have hired or fired or made any decisions at all. They just gave me that credit to keep me around. It meant nothing.

[MDLNB]

I don't like Alec Baldwin BUT I think he is a pretty decent actor. That said, it is my opinion that anyone handling a gun, regardless of state of loaded or not, should be instructed in gun safety. Perhaps sufficient instruction was given and someone was just careless. Accidents do happen. I don't believe there was any intent in the accident. I have no doubt in my mind that this is an instance where it was purely accidental. Does that make it OK? No, just saying that even though I do not like the guy, I am not going to disparage or ostracize the guy for something that was likely an unintentional and not evil in intent.
Yes, it was news. Yes, we would all like to know the details. It was most likely a horrendous mistake. This is much like incidents where a police officer is in a shoot out with a perpetrator and hits an innocent bystander. It was not intentional but nonetheless catastrophic.

[JMintzer]

The laws did change after that. That’s when the strict gun protocol came into play. The prop person or armorer brings the gun on set and show’s the Assistant Director that it’s an empty gun, they open the chamber, show him, spin the barrel, at which point the assistant director, the person on set in charge of safety, says cold gun….. None of those things happened on this show. I’ve worked on over 700 episodes of television as a director for 30 years from Blue Bloods to Sleepy Hollow, Dexter to Entourage and I’ve never, not once, not seen this protocol happen. I’m baffled at the fact that it happened and the AD admitted he hadn’t actually checked the gun before yelling cold gun and handing to an actor. I couldn’t care less about Alec Baldwin’s politics or career. If I never see him again, I wouldn’t lose sleep, if he was in something i wanted to watch , I’d watch. I’m only trying to explain the way productions work and the first AD and Armorer are to blame. I’m a member of the DGA, there’s giant thread on that calling for the assistant director to be banned from the union. Perhaps where Alec failed was not being proactive and using his set experience to notice the red flags but as a producer, it’s a credit only just like all the writers and a best friend of someone. There are only 3 (give or take) actual producers who hire and are in charge. Yet there will be 20 listed. We call them vanity credits. They mean nothing. I was a producer for 7 years on a show and couldn’t have hired or fired or made any decisions at all. They just gave me that credit to keep me around. It meant nothing.

Oh, now he shows the AD... Before, you stated he showed the crew and actors. Which is it?

And no, the "prop person" is not the one who should be bringing a firearm to the set. It's strictly the job of the 'armorer". You know, the trained professional...

As to the other 75% of your post, so?

[Caymus]

The laws did change after that. That’s when the strict gun protocol came into play. .

Will the police, DA and jury agree with that version of the "law" Can any body (drug dealers etc?) use the argument that they didn't know the gun was loaded?

[Carla B]

I'm sorry, without reading through pages and pages of this thread to look for the answer, will someone take pity and tell me why real guns with real bullets are even used on a movie set?

[dewilson58]

I'm sorry, without reading through pages and pages of this thread to look for the answer, will someone take pity and tell me why real guns with real bullets are even used on a movie set?

Can't get much more real for the movie goers.

It's a risk the industry accepts.

[Boston-Sean]

Just to repeat an earlier post.

It doesn't matter who or how a gun is loaded. What matters is how the person handles the gun. That is according to the New Mexico supreme court.

Also, an act does not have to be intentional to be criminal.

One would think these 2 concepts are not difficult to understand.

One would be wrong.

[dewilson58]

It doesn't matter who or how a gun is loaded. What matters is how the person handles the gun. That is according to the New Mexico supreme court.

.

As a gun owner, I always believed and understood this.

Do you have any reference points on "according to the NM supreme court"?
Would like to read.
Thanx

[golfing eagles]

Just to repeat an earlier post.

It doesn't matter who or how a gun is loaded. What matters is how the person handles the gun. That is according to the New Mexico supreme court.

Also, an act does not have to be intentional to be criminal.

One would think these 2 concepts are not difficult to understand.

One would be wrong.

I'm forced to disagree with "concept 2" or more accurately, set the record straight

The basic legal term is mens rea---essentially criminal INTENT, without which there is no crime. To be more specific:

Mens rea (/ˈmɛnz ˈreɪə/; Law Latin for "guilty mind") is the mental element of a person's intention to commit a crime; or knowledge that one's action or lack of action would cause a crime to be committed. It is a necessary element of many crimes.

The standard common law test of criminal liability is expressed in the Latin phrase actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, i.e. "the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty".[1] As a general rule, someone who acted without mental fault is not liable in criminal law. Exceptions are known as strict liability crimes.

As the federal constitution entrenches a right of due process, the United States usually applies strict liability to only the most MINOR crimes or infractions. One example is a parking violation, where the state only needs to show that the defendant's vehicle was parked inappropriately at a certain curb. Serious crimes like rape and murder usually require some showing of culpability or mens rea.

[manaboutown]

"Some states no longer use the classifications of mens rea but instead, use the malice distinction. In New Mexico, malice distinction is used over mens rea, because it simplifies determining one’s state of mind. To determine if a person is liable for a criminal act, the courts will determine whether the defendant had one of two malice distinctions:

Express Malice – During the crime, the defendant had a deliberate intent to cause harm to the victim. They planned the act or knowingly approached their victim with the intent of harming or killing them.
Implied Malice – In this instance, the defendant was indifferent to the harm or death a victim might suffer, and they were inattentive or careless at the time."

From: Criminal Defense Basics: What Is Mens Rea? - New Mexico Criminal Law Offices (http://newmexicocriminallaw.com/criminal-defense-basics-mens-rea/)

[golfing eagles]

"Some states no longer use the classifications of mens rea but instead, use the malice distinction. In New Mexico, malice distinction is used over mens rea, because it simplifies determining one’s state of mind. To determine if a person is liable for a criminal act, the courts will determine whether the defendant had one of two malice distinctions:

Express Malice – During the crime, the defendant had a deliberate intent to cause harm to the victim. They planned the act or knowingly approached their victim with the intent of harming or killing them.
Implied Malice – In this instance, the defendant was indifferent to the harm or death a victim might suffer, and they were inattentive or careless at the time."

From: Criminal Defense Basics: What Is Mens Rea? - New Mexico Criminal Law Offices (http://newmexicocriminallaw.com/criminal-defense-basics-mens-rea/)

Interesting. Nevertheless, I doubt a court would consider failure of an actor to check a gun he was told is "cold" as indifference to harming a person. Careless and inattentive probably, but without the prerequisite indifference I can't see a criminal conviction.

[JSR22]

Interesting. Nevertheless, I doubt a court would consider failure of an actor to check a gun he was told is "cold" as indifference to harming a person. Careless and inattentive probably, but without the prerequisite indifference I can't see a criminal conviction.

I would be shocked if he is convicted. Personally, I believe it was a terrible accident and he should not be convicted of any crime.

[Boston-Sean]

As a gun owner, I always believed and understood this.

Do you have any reference points on "according to the NM supreme court"?
Would like to read.
Thanx

Here is an attorney who specializes in Firearms law (Unlike all of us posting here) doing an analysis of Baldwins case. Towards the end he references an appeal of a Felony Manslaughter conviction where the New Mexico Supreme court said it didn't matter who loaded the gun. Only that the gun was handled improperly.

Legal Analysis: Alec Baldwin Situation Beginning to Look a Lot Like Manslaughter - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVZWVDgErpE)

[Boston-Sean]

I'm forced to disagree with "concept 2" or more accurately, set the record straight

The basic legal term is mens rea---essentially criminal INTENT, without which there is no crime. To be more specific:

Mens rea (/ˈmɛnz ˈreɪə/; Law Latin for "guilty mind") is the mental element of a person's intention to commit a crime; or knowledge that one's action or lack of action would cause a crime to be committed. It is a necessary element of many crimes.

The standard common law test of criminal liability is expressed in the Latin phrase actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, i.e. "the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty".[1] As a general rule, someone who acted without mental fault is not liable in criminal law. Exceptions are known as strict liability crimes.

As the federal constitution entrenches a right of due process, the United States usually applies strict liability to only the most MINOR crimes or infractions. One example is a parking violation, where the state only needs to show that the defendant's vehicle was parked inappropriately at a certain curb. Serious crimes like rape and murder usually require some showing of culpability or mens rea.


It's good to know that I can speed down a highway at 100 MPH and if I crash and kill someone I can't be charged with the death because I didn't intend to kill anyone.

[dewilson58]

Here is an attorney who specializes in Firearms law (Unlike all of us posting here) doing an analysis of Baldwins case. Towards the end he references an appeal of a Felony Manslaughter conviction where the New Mexico Supreme court said it didn't matter who loaded the gun. Only that the gun was handled improperly.

Legal Analysis: Alec Baldwin Situation Beginning to Look a Lot Like Manslaughter - YouTube

:bigbow:

[golfing eagles]

It's good to know that I can speed down a highway at 100 MPH and if I crash and kill someone I can't be charged with the death because I didn't intend to kill anyone.

That's not what the law states.

[manaboutown]

2020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 2 - Homicide
Section 30-2-5 - Excusable homicide.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-2-5 (2020)
Homicide is excusable in the following cases:

A. when committed by accident or misfortune in doing any lawful act, by lawful means, with usual and ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent; or


2020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 2 - Homicide
Section 30-2-8 - When homicide is excusable or justifiable defendant to be acquitted.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-2-8 (2020)
Whenever any person is prosecuted for a homicide, and upon his trial the killing shall be found to have been excusable or justifiable, the jury shall find such person not guilty and he shall be discharged.

020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 7 - Weapons and Explosives
Section 30-7-4 - Negligent use of a deadly weapon.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-7-4 (2020)
A. Negligent use of a deadly weapon consists of:

(1) discharging a firearm into any building or vehicle or so as to knowingly endanger a person or his property;

(2) carrying a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant or narcotic;

(3) endangering the safety of another by handling or using a firearm or other deadly weapon in a negligent manner; or

(4) discharging a firearm within one hundred fifty yards of a dwelling or building, not including abandoned or vacated buildings on public lands during hunting seasons, without the permission of the owner or lessees thereof.

B. The provisions of Paragraphs (1), (3) and (4) of Subsection A of this section shall not apply to a peace officer or other public employee who is required or authorized by law to carry or use a firearm in the course of his employment and who carries, handles, uses or discharges a firearm while lawfully engaged in carrying out the duties of his office or employment.

C. The exceptions from criminal liability provided for in Subsection B of this section shall not preclude or affect civil liability for the same conduct.

Whoever commits negligent use of a deadly weapon is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

[golfing eagles]

2020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 2 - Homicide
Section 30-2-5 - Excusable homicide.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-2-5 (2020)
Homicide is excusable in the following cases:

A. when committed by accident or misfortune in doing any lawful act, by lawful means, with usual and ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent; or


2020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 2 - Homicide
Section 30-2-8 - When homicide is excusable or justifiable defendant to be acquitted.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-2-8 (2020)
Whenever any person is prosecuted for a homicide, and upon his trial the killing shall be found to have been excusable or justifiable, the jury shall find such person not guilty and he shall be discharged.

020 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Article 7 - Weapons and Explosives
Section 30-7-4 - Negligent use of a deadly weapon.

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-7-4 (2020)
A. Negligent use of a deadly weapon consists of:

(1) discharging a firearm into any building or vehicle or so as to knowingly endanger a person or his property;

(2) carrying a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant or narcotic;

(3) endangering the safety of another by handling or using a firearm or other deadly weapon in a negligent manner; or

(4) discharging a firearm within one hundred fifty yards of a dwelling or building, not including abandoned or vacated buildings on public lands during hunting seasons, without the permission of the owner or lessees thereof.

B. The provisions of Paragraphs (1), (3) and (4) of Subsection A of this section shall not apply to a peace officer or other public employee who is required or authorized by law to carry or use a firearm in the course of his employment and who carries, handles, uses or discharges a firearm while lawfully engaged in carrying out the duties of his office or employment.

C. The exceptions from criminal liability provided for in Subsection B of this section shall not preclude or affect civil liability for the same conduct.

Whoever commits negligent use of a deadly weapon is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

So the $64,000 question would be: What constitutes "usual and ordinary caution"? (In New Mexico)

My second question would be: Having killed someone through negligence, why is it a "petty misdemeanor"?

[manaboutown]

So the $64,000 question would be: What constitutes "usual and ordinary caution"? (In New Mexico)

My second question would be: Having killed someone through negligence, why is it a "petty misdemeanor"?

Beats me. Hopefully some caselaw interpreting the meaning of these statutes exists in NM. It is a small state population-wise unlike NY and CA so its body of caselaw is very small.

[Caymus]

I would be shocked if he is convicted. Personally, I believe it was a terrible accident and he should not be convicted of any crime.

Any crime? The best he can hope for is to be convicted of a civil crime. Does he have enough $$$$ to settle out of court?

[golfing eagles]

Any crime? The best he can hope for is to be convicted of a civil crime. Does he have enough $$$$ to settle out of court?

"civil crime"????? Now that's the classic definition of an oxymoron:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

PS: to anyone out there who thinks of it, a tort can't be both at the same time

[JMintzer]

I'm sorry, without reading through pages and pages of this thread to look for the answer, will someone take pity and tell me why real guns with real bullets are even used on a movie set?

Real guns are used to shoot blanks...

Real (live) ammo should never be on a movie set...

[dewilson58]

Real guns are used to shoot blanks...

:ohdear: Don't need real guns to shoot blanks.

[JMintzer]

:ohdear: Don't need real guns to shoot blanks.

Unless you're making a vasectomy joke, yes you do...