Golf Course Conditions

[Mikeod]

Is there a blanket exemption in TV from fixing ball marks and raking traps ? :cus:

Apparently so. Played a course last Friday and found fresh, deep ball marks on every green. These had to be made by a shot that left the ball near the mark. I spoke to the marshal about them but he just shrugged and said there was nothing he could do. I thought maybe he could visit the groups in front of us and remind them, but I guess that was too much to ask. I repaired about 6-7 marks on each green.

Not to mention the footprints in the traps that ran right over the rakes! This is an ongoing problem with no apparent solution. I read in a previous post that some groups have adopted the policy of a free drop if you land in a footprint in a bunker.

If you are physically unable to bend down to fix a ball mark, ask someone else in your group to do it for you. Don't just slam a putter on it, or, worse, leave it. Same with traps, ask someone else to do it for you. And, following the urban legend, it's not the marshal's job either. :cus:

[VillagesFlorida]

Apparently so. Played a course last Friday and found fresh, deep ball marks on every green. These had to be made by a shot that left the ball near the mark. I spoke to the marshal about them but he just shrugged and said there was nothing he could do. I thought maybe he could visit the groups in front of us and remind them, but I guess that was too much to ask. I repaired about 6-7 marks on each green.

Not to mention the footprints in the traps that ran right over the rakes! This is an ongoing problem with no apparent solution. I read in a previous post that some groups have adopted the policy of a free drop if you land in a footprint in a bunker.

If you are physically unable to bend down to fix a ball mark, ask someone else in your group to do it for you. Don't just slam a putter on it, or, worse, leave it. Same with traps, ask someone else to do it for you. And, following the urban legend, it's not the marshal's job either. :cus:

It amazes hubby and me how many folks we play golf with who never fix a ball mark. They watch us do it and do not seem the least bit embarrassed that they aren't helping. It is probably the same wanna-be golfers who leave the bunkers unraked. And, these same so-called golfers have no problem walking on my putting line and leaving footprints, while they "finish my putt", out of turn. These people have no conception of what it means to be a good steward of the golf course. Apparently golf course etiquette is something that "others" practice. Is it ignorance or laziness, or some of both?

[cabo35]

Played Caroline to Virginia at Mallory. Course was in really good shape but I still think, for me, Caroline is the toughest nine in the Villages. We're getting addicted to Bonifay. Course is in good shape and except for the occasional but predictable slow play delays we enjoy playing there.

[hedoman]

It amazes hubby and me how many folks we play golf with who never fix a ball mark. They watch us do it and do not seem the least bit embarrassed that they aren't helping. It is probably the same wanna-be golfers who leave the bunkers unraked. And, these same so-called golfers have no problem walking on my putting line and leaving footprints, while they "finish my putt", out of turn. These people have no conception of what it means to be a good steward of the golf course. Apparently golf course etiquette is something that "others" practice. Is it ignorance or laziness, or some of both?

Many times I see golfers hit the front of the green and the ball releases and rolls out. They forget where the bll hit and don't see the mark.

I try to fix as many as I can without delaying play

[schotzyb]

Played Cane Garden today(Alamanda- Hibiscus). Fairways a little spotty but playable . Greens were really slick and fast. Several pin placements were a joke. Either put in the hole or you are most likely further away than on your original put. Pin placements on slopes are no fun.

[schotzyb]

Played Lopez today. Course in very good condition. Greens very fast!!!

[schotzyb]

Has anyone else noticed how hard the greens have become in the last week or so?
We played Bonifay Friday and Cane Garden today and it it was next to impossible to get a ball to stop. You had to drop one out of a plane to leave a ball mark. I am sure the lack of rain is the main contributor and the retention ponds have to be suffering.

[hedoman]

Has anyone else noticed how hard the greens have become in the last week or so?
We played Bonifay Friday and Cane Garden today and it it was next to impossible to get a ball to stop. You had to drop one out of a plane to leave a ball mark. I am sure the lack of rain is the main contributor and the retention ponds have to be suffering.



It is soooooo dry that by the afternoon the greens are like tabletopsas they dry out totally.Grass is starting to suffer a bit

WE NEED RAIN!

[nitehawk]

Played Mallory yesterday (Virginia) and was not impressed-fairways ok, not good, greens ok

[spk7951]

Has anyone else noticed how hard the greens have become in the last week or so?
We played Bonifay Friday and Cane Garden today and it it was next to impossible to get a ball to stop. You had to drop one out of a plane to leave a ball mark. I am sure the lack of rain is the main contributor and the retention ponds have to be suffering.


Even though I had intended to wait for summer to play Bonifay again we ended up with an early tee time there Friday. Not only was it tough to stop the ball on those greens but the fairways were also giving quite a bit of roll. On #1 of Fort Walton I had 265 to center of the green and hit my 3 hybrid, which is normally 200yds, only to have the ball roll up just behind the parked carts next to the green of the group in front of us. Quickly caught up to them at the next green to apologize and that was after the group behind us had done the same thing to us.
Hope that was not your group in front of us.

[ajbrown]

I played Bonifay on 1/20 and commented that the greens were really getting firm to my playing partners. I just finished playing there again today and they seemed a bit softer but still firm.

I LOVE IT.

I love a course in that condition, where you must consider spin on the ball and think about where to land it based on pin position.

I love this thread and am hopeful this will not be taken as argumentative, but if you love the challenge of flighting a ball and controlling spin, play Bonifay now.

Have fun out there

[schotzyb]

I played Bonifay on 1/20 and commented that the greens were really getting firm to my playing partners. I just finished playing there again today and they seemed a bit softer but still firm.

I LOVE IT.

I love a course in that condition, where you must consider spin on the ball and think about where to land it based on pin position.

I love this thread and am hopeful this will not be taken as argumentative, but if you love the challenge of flighting a ball and controlling spin, play Bonifay now.

Have fun out there

I also like fast greens for putting but not for my approach shots. I don't hit the ball as high as most guys so I have to rely on distance control and that is tough with firm greens..
I also like this thread and let's keep it going.

[waynet]

aj, I'm with you the harder and faster the better. besides with the amount of people not fixing ball marks I don't have to fix 5 per green all the time. And talking about ball marks why can't ambassadors watch groups on the greens instead of worrying if I replace the rake in the bunker. If they see a group not fixing their ball marks a kind reminder is usually all that is needed.

[MrMark]

[QUOTE=

As of yesterday. Glenview- Stirrup Cup - Greens were pathetic!

[ajbrown]

As of yesterday. Glenview- Stirrup Cup - Greens were pathetic!

That is disappointing, I have not been there for a while and I was going to try and play there Friday. Seems Glenview struggling is an annual thing. Was the other nine holes OK? In your opinion how would the greens compare to other courses you have played recently, i.e., Hacienda, Tierra, Havana or Bonifay, etc?

In general I have found the courses I have played (even executives) in much better shape than last winter.

Thanks for any insight for my Friday request.

[Mikeod]

[QUOTE=

As of yesterday. Glenview- Stirrup Cup - Greens were pathetic!
Water, folks. No measurable rain for weeks coupled with aquifer restrictions plus increased draw due to new homes and landscaping. Also, the warmer weather has stimulated the bermuda early. Anyone notice the zoysia is greening up early? I would expect the greens to be hard and bumpy until we get more rain. Hopefully tomorrow!

For those south of 466, the water for both homes and golf courses/landscaping is drawn from a single allocation. The more that homes and home landscaping draws on the allocation, the less is available for golf courses and community landscaping. The better the homeowners conserve water, i.e., water appropriately, the more is available to maintain conditions on the golf courses and community landscaping. It's a limited resource right now. Can't just buy more.

[schotzyb]

We played Orange Blossom today and a totally different scenario of what we saw at Bonifay and Havana. Greens were extremely soft but also very slow, but at least you could leave a ball mark and they held. Didn't really care for the slowness of the greens but I did like being able to keep my approach shots on the greens.

[chuckster]

[QUOTE=

As of yesterday. Glenview- Stirrup Cup - Greens were pathetic!



Sorry but have to disagree with this observation.....with exception of #3 Fox that has been and is still in poor condition, rest of fox and stirrup were in good condition on Sunday. JMHO.......:popcorn:

[spk7951]

Played Mallory Hill today Virginia to Amelia and thought the course was in pretty good condition. Fairways overall are not bad and greens are in great shape and quick. Pace of play for our group was 4hrs 10min.

[ajbrown]

I played Glenview, Fox Run to Stirrup this AM. I actually thought the greens on Stirrup were fine. If anything the greens were worse on Fox Run, but still playable. Glenview must be aware as they are sanding the heck out the problem areas.

My one complaint is that the greens were too slow. I understand why, as they are trying to fix them, so they leave the plant a bit longer, but IMO there are a few better choices right now in TV. This could change with a mower adjustment and be different next week as most of the greens have plenty of grass.

[schotzyb]

Played Havana Friday morning and the course conditions were totally different from the prior week when the greens were hard as concrete. We were first off Friday morning and it was obvious that they had watered the greens heavily. Slow and soft. But a very enjoyable round.

[ajbrown]

Played Havana this AM, Kilimanjaro to Kenya. I must say I was a bit under whelmed. I mostly judge courses by the condition of greens. Something about the greens do not look healthy, not dry, just not smooth. Almost like mold or disease in parts... said by a guy who has no idea how to grow grass :ohdear:

It is still on my request list. I only get to play twice a week and I am interested in what others see or how it changes....

Off to Tierra on Sunday if no rain.

[robertj1954]

The drought has caused many of the golf course lakes to drop to very low levels. I over heard a discussion yesterday regarding the lake levels. I am hopeful someone with knowledge on the subject can address it. The question: Can The Villages adjust the lake levels by moving water from one lake to another to maintain acceptable water levels? That is what some people believe. I am wondering, if this is true, how do they accomplish it?

[hedoman]

Played Havana this AM, Kilimanjaro to Kenya. I must say I was a bit under whelmed. I mostly judge courses by the condition of greens. Something about the greens do not look healthy, not dry, just not smooth. Almost like mold or disease in parts... said by a guy who has no idea how to grow grass :ohdear:

It is still on my request list. I only get to play twice a week and I am interested in what others see or how it changes....

Off to Tierra on Sunday if no rain.

Noticed the seed heads of Poa Anna on a few greens and asked the maintainance guy (who was checking them) and he verified. It is the lighter green (almost white) and the seed heads tend to make the green bumpy. a few hours afer cutting they grow bck and stick up. It was a transitional grass back up north until the Bent kicked in after it warmed up to summer levels. It shouldn't be a big problem but I was amazed to see it this far south. Could explain your observations

[ajbrown]

Noticed the seed heads of Poa Anna on a few greens and asked the maintainance guy (who was checking them) and he verified. It is the lighter green (almost white) and the seed heads tend to make the green bumpy. a few hours afer cutting they grow bck and stick up. It was a transitional grass back up north until the Bent kicked in after it warmed up to summer levels. It shouldn't be a big problem but I was amazed to see it this far south. Could explain your observations

I want to preface what I say with the fact Havana is in decent condition. I do not wish my comments to be taken as any but conversational and curious about what others are seeing. Some comments will be negative, but Havana is still on my request list.

Thanks for the info hedoman. I have played my share on Poa Anna greens and can empathize with the greens crew fighting it. Was that at Havana you saw a greens keeper?

To my untrained eye, the greens at Havana were not bumpy due to Poa Anna.
This was more like the grass was 'clumpy'. Clumpy sounds pretty severe, the greens are still playable, but it is like in large areas the grass is not filled in making the surface bumpy. If the pin was in that area it was hit or miss.

As I type this I realize my ability to paint a picture using words is non existent; likely why I work in the computer field. If I am going to post something like this I must include a picture :)

PSrant. I cannot state enough how bad people are at fixing ball marks. I would rather people NOT fix them then fix them wrong. All over Havana you see dirt spots the size of a quarter likely caused by fixing a ball mark by raising the center.

[Mikeod]

The drought has caused many of the golf course lakes to drop to very low levels. I over heard a discussion yesterday regarding the lake levels. I am hopeful someone with knowledge on the subject can address it. The question: Can The Villages adjust the lake levels by moving water from one lake to another to maintain acceptable water levels? That is what some people believe. I am wondering, if this is true, how do they accomplish it?
The retention ponds on all the courses south of 466 and, I think, all except Orange Blossom and Hacienda Hills north of 466, are interconnected so that water can be moved from one to the other. It is sometimes amazing how it can rain buckets in one area of TV and nothing an another. The interconnection allows them to move water from where there is excess to where it is needed. Unfortunately, there is no excess water anywhere.

C'mon rain!!!

[schotzyb]

Played Orange Blossom yesterday and it is still in great shape, Greens are immaculate but too slow for my liking . Still a great deal at $24.

[Mikeod]

I, too, noted a pretty significant infestation of poa on several greens the last few rounds. That will definitely make the greens less smooth until they can kill it off. Those seed heads will continue to reseed the greens until they get rid of it. Hopefully, the warmer weather we are experiencing will awaken the bermuda early (it needs soil temps to reach 50-55 or so). We used to withhold water in SoCal to dry out the poa, then hit the bermuda with high N and water to perk it up quickly. We had a couple of weeks with mediocre greens during the drying out, but they improved rapidly once the bermuda took off.

I wonder if the overseed is starting to peter out, leaving the sparse areas described by AJ.

[ajbrown]

Played Tierra yesterday. Course is in good shape. These greens did not have any of the issues I saw at Havana Friday. The greens look great, smooth and full.

I bold the word look in the line above because the greens are too slow for my liking. I am not expecting Augusta in TV, but I think they could find a way to get another foot or two of speed in these without hurting the surface.

Tierra still one of my favorites in TV and IMO possibly the toughest course when compared to its rating/slope (69/118).

[ajbrown]

Played Tierra yesterday. Course is in good shape. These greens did not have any of the issues I saw at Havana Friday. The greens look great, smooth and full.

I bold the word look in the line above because the greens are too slow for my liking. I am not expecting Augusta in TV, but I think they could find a way to get another foot or two of speed in these without hurting the surface.

Tierra still one of my favorites in TV and IMO possibly the toughest course when compared to its rating/slope (69/118).

I sent an email to 'thevillages" and Erik graciously responded. Not sure if anything will come from it, but at least some awareness.

From: Greulach, Erik [mailto:erik.Greulach@thevillages.com]
Subject: Championship Golf

Good Afternoon Alan…

Thanks for your feedback. Not knowing what your expectations are, I can tell you we try and keep the greens rolling around an 8 (give or take a foot either way) on the stimpmeter (if you are familiar with that terminology), of course depending a little on season and health of the turf.

I’ve passed your notes along to the management at these two courses to reflect on based on their current conditions.

Best Regards…Erik

And like I mentioned to Erik, I like 9 much better than 7 :)

[ajbrown]

The wind and my LOFT got the better of me today at Bonifay, but the course is in terrific shape still. Top of my list at the moment, but I have not played Palmer or Lopez (Sunday) for a bit to compare.....

[schotzyb]

Played Glenview (Stirrup Cup to Tally Ho) today.Course in great shape other than some standing water in the bunkers. Greens had a nice speed to them after the moisture dried up.

[Russ_Boston]

I, too, noted a pretty significant infestation of poa on several greens the last few rounds. That will definitely make the greens less smooth until they can kill it off. Those seed heads will continue to reseed the greens until they get rid of it. Hopefully, the warmer weather we are experiencing will awaken the bermuda early (it needs soil temps to reach 50-55 or so). We used to withhold water in SoCal to dry out the poa, then hit the bermuda with high N and water to perk it up quickly. We had a couple of weeks with mediocre greens during the drying out, but they improved rapidly once the bermuda took off.

I wonder if the overseed is starting to peter out, leaving the sparse areas described by AJ.

Don't many of the Cal courses have Poa Anna all year round as their green surface?

Like all the ones played at the Pebble beach event:

Pebble Beach Golf Links
Greens: Poa annua
Tees & Fairways: rye grass
The Links at Spanish Bay
Greens: Poa annua
Tees & fairways: rye grass
Spyglass Hill Golf Course
Greens: Poa annua
Tees & Fairways: blend of bent & fescue
Del Monte Golf Course, Monterey
Greens: Poa annua
Tees & Fairways: rye grass


If that is the case then why would it kill off the greens here? I know it's bumpier but didn't think it would kill the Bermuda.

Just curious.

[hedoman]

Don't many of the Cal courses have Poa Anna all year round as their green surface?


If that is the case then why would it kill off the greens here? I know it's bumpier but didn't think it would kill the Bermuda.

Just curious.

Poa is not a bad grass and supplements the bent grass we had up north. Actually it is very hearty and does well in cooler weather. In the spring it goes to seed and the seed heads pop up in the afternoon creating a different experience. When soil temps rise so that bermuda or bent can grow the Poa is taken over by the dominant grasses. After the ealy seeding it just blends in. Strange to see it this time of year but as warm as it has been with relatively few frosts it is understandable. It was all over Hawkes Bay last week late in the PM. It is not a problem even though I know of high end courses up north that had a 5 year Poa Annua eradication plan....

[Mikeod]

Don't many of the Cal courses have Poa Anna all year round as their green surface?

If that is the case then why would it kill off the greens here? I know it's bumpier but didn't think it would kill the Bermuda.

Just curious.
Russ,
Sorry if I gave the impression poa would kill off the other grasses. It won't. The problem as Hedoman describes is that the seed heads create a bumpy surface. If the green is bermuda or some other grass, the poa can create areas that are not the same speed as the rest of the green, affecting play. If poa is the primary grass on the green, then it's just an annoyance when the seed heads interfere.

[Russ_Boston]

Thanks for the education. I'll just putt around it:)

[hedoman]

The wind and my LOFT got the better of me today at Bonifay, but the course is in terrific shape still. Top of my list at the moment, but I have not played Palmer or Lopez (Sunday) for a bit to compare.....

My golf buds always say my problem is LOFT ...........Lack Of F'n Talent

[ajbrown]

My golf buds always say my problem is LOFT ...........Lack Of F'n Talent

I hoped golfers here would understand what I meant :a20:

[Russ_Boston]

OH, I got it. And have it! I've been playing now 3-4 times per week and I'm worse than I was when I was only playing once a week up north.

[jebartle]

This course is in better condition than Palmer EVER.....Plush fairways....The course was GREAT!

[hedoman]

You just have to see Bonifay to believe it!

[waynet]

played Mallory today....an embarrassment...greens very slow, bunkers horrible,play slow,just a bad course.

[nitehawk]

played Mallory today....an embarrassment...greens very slow, bunkers horrible,play slow,just a bad course.

i have to agree - played last week - same thing

[nitehawk]

Played Bonifay this week - half the course is greens - new have i seen such large greens - the rest of the course is average - no character - no trees no nothing - just fairway - half way to hole - then one large green you may be able to chip your second shot and then putt 100" to the hole

[schotzyb]

Played Lopez today. You want fast greens, check Lopez out. Lightning fast. Course in very good shape. Can't say the same about the weather conditions. Wind was really strong and it seemed to be in our face on 90% of the holes.

[ajbrown]

Played Lopez today. You want fast greens, check Lopez out. Lightning fast. Course in very good shape. Can't say the same about the weather conditions. Wind was really strong and it seemed to be in our face on 90% of the holes.

Darnit!!! I have cancelled the last two Sunday's AM tee times at Lopez due to weather. This Sunday I will try again. Thanks for the update.

[ajbrown]

This course is in better condition than Palmer EVER.....Plush fairways....The course was GREAT!

Is Hacienda really better shape that Palmer? I have not played Palmer since December. I have some friends coming next week for a visit and Palmer is one course I always take folks. Last winter Palmer was immaculate.

Hacienda is in good shape overall, fairways nice, the rough is "rough" and some places marked GUR as they have no grass. I think they ran out of while paint :).

I found the greens on Lakes better than on Palms. Palms were slower and bumpier (still OK). I believe this is caused by the aforementioned Poa seed heads.

[ajbrown]

This thread seems as good as any to ask this. I have only been playing once or twice a week for a while, so I am not up to date on many of the championship course conditions in TV. I am very familiar with the pros and cons of each course layout, so I am looking for opinions of each course's condition based on recent play. The condition of the greens matters most to me.

I have friends coming next week and will be playing four days. I will be bringing them to Bonifay for sure as it is new and I like it, but then I have some choices:

Lopez (top possibility, I just played and know it is in good shape)

Palmer (always a favorite, no idea the condition?)

Glenview (another favorite, last time the greens were 'just OK", wondering if anyone has insight now?)

Havana (my guests have never played there, anyone have an update on the condition?)

I may decide to sleep in and do Sunday straight tee time at Tierra or Orange Blossom. Anyone play either lately?

I appreciate any feedback you have. Which four would you play based on conditions?

Thanks
Alan

[gage405]

I just played Palmer, Laurel to Riley. Great condition!
Played Kilimanjaro to Kenya last week. Very nice condition.

[ajbrown]

With all of the site issues I wonder if someone may have missed this. If you have some thoughts on the 4 best conditioned courses in TV now, I would appreciare it. Requests for tee times start tonight. Thanks for the insight gage405

This thread seems as good as any to ask this. I have only been playing once or twice a week for a while, so I am not up to date on many of the championship course conditions in TV. I am very familiar with the pros and cons of each course layout, so I am looking for opinions of each course's condition based on recent play. The condition of the greens matters most to me.

I have friends coming next week and will be playing four days. I will be bringing them to Bonifay for sure as it is new and I like it, but then I have some choices:

Lopez (top possibility, I just played and know it is in good shape)

Palmer (always a favorite, no idea the condition?)

Glenview (another favorite, last time the greens were 'just OK", wondering if anyone has insight now?)

Havana (my guests have never played there, anyone have an update on the condition?)

I may decide to sleep in and do Sunday straight tee time at Tierra or Orange Blossom. Anyone play either lately?

I appreciate any feedback you have. Which four would you play based on conditions?

Thanks
Alan

[gage405]

Played Tierra today. I thought it was in fabulous condition!
The fairways had nice grass on them which gave some great lies.
The greens were very nice.
Kind of like some northern courses.
I think it is one of the best courses, condition-wise, in The Villages
now.
I dont play there very often but I loved it today.

And no, I didnt have my best round of the year there, lol.
Just thought the conditions were great.
Our group played the white tees...we usually play the forward
tees.

But, you wont go wrong if you play there, believe me.

[ajbrown]

The past four days (Sat – Tues) we had guests and played Havana (Kil-Ken), Glenview(Fox-Sti), Palmer (Lau-Ril), Hacienda (Pal-Lak). The weather was spectacular and all of the courses were in good shape. Was proud to show off my home courses THIS YEAR.

After we were done I asked them to rate the courses based solely on condition, not factoring cost or layout, greens being most important factor, then fairways, then general. It was unanimous:


Palmer (greens are almost perfect, which means to me if you start a ball online it STAYS online)
Glenview
Havana
Hacienda


IMO Havana greens looked great, but they barely lost to Glenview because they had recently been verticut and the mowers were being kept a bit high over the weekend.

PS. If we do not get some rain, these great conditions cannot last for long…..

[hedoman]

Played Caine ( Allamanda to Hibiscus)and the greens were lightning fast. We need rain to get things growing as the Bermuda "rough" was better than the fairway....

Starting to see the effects of lack of rain and new water restrictions on most of the courses now....

[spk7951]

Played Mallory, Virginia to Amelia, yesterday and the lack of rain is taking it's toll on the courses. Greens were in decent condition with a couple of greens having a brown patch or two. The fairways were mostly brown with your drive getting good roll but some fairway shots were like hitting right off of dirt. One ambassador said they can only water the fairways once a week and greens three times per week. Probably going to be a long sumer if rainfall does not come soon.

[Fourpar]

Played Bonifay yesterday, and it is really rough! So dry they really ought to close it if they cannot water. Greens okay, but that's all.
Played Glenview today: Only SC to FR rotation, Tally closed. Fairways a bit dry but way better than Bonifay. Greens pretty good.

[rp001]

Played this course two days ago...great conditions and bargain priced..18 holes for 21 bucks..Very nice..1:00 pm shotgun start and it was packed. the pace of play was good too,no delays encountered..

[ajbrown]

Had a guest from MA here for golf, so I played Palmer yesterday. Arnold's 18, Cherry to Laurel. As soon as I stepped on the practice green I knew we were in for a treat.

These greens are a step above any other in TV at this moment in time here. They roll at a great speed and they are true. If you start a putt on line, it stays on line. My guest who is still less than a one index really enjoyed it.

IMO worth the extra $8-$10 as a priority to give yourself a treat.

Rough only, cart path side of hole on even numbered holes.

[Papa]

Played Bonifay this morning, and was quite disappointed in the conditions. Two of our players needed a "golfer's knife" to make a hole to place their tees. The tee boxes were as hard as cement. The fairways would extremely dry, and hard. The greens were OK. Golf carts were restricted to the cart paths on all the "odd-numbered" holes, and also #6. Play was slowed down quite a bit due to this restriction. I was really disappointed.

[Bogie Shooter]

Played Bonifay this morning, and was quite disappointed in the conditions. Two of our players needed a "golfer's knife" to make a hole to place their tees. The tee boxes were as hard as cement. The fairways would extremely dry, and hard. The greens were OK. Golf carts were restricted to the cart paths on all the "odd-numbered" holes, and also #6. Play was slowed down quite a bit due to this restriction. I was really disappointed.

Reset your expectations. It will be this way until we get some rain.

[MrMark]

Reset your expectations. It will be this way until we get some rain.

No rain at Glenview but the greens and fairways are pretty good

[Bogie Shooter]

No rain at Glenview but the greens and fairways are pretty good

Pretty good?? That can mean different things to different people.

[LAshby50]

Doesn't Arizona get less rain than The Villages? When I golf in Phoenix the courses are always green. I have not been here long enough to live through a drought in TV and see the courses recover. I still play all my golf here but I hope the courses get some rain soon. Bonifay should close now that we have fewer people around. It is too nice a course to torture it with the stress of carts, divots, and players. If I play it again I am taking a hammer to put the tees in the ground.

[rp001]

Played there again yesterday..great condition..guess Bellview gets more rain than the villages?..and the course was packed...

[Mikeod]

Doesn't Arizona get less rain than The Villages? When I golf in Phoenix the courses are always green. I have not been here long enough to live through a drought in TV and see the courses recover. I still play all my golf here but I hope the courses get some rain soon. Bonifay should close now that we have fewer people around. It is too nice a course to torture it with the stress of carts, divots, and players. If I play it again I am taking a hammer to put the tees in the ground.

Arizona gets water from the Colorado River, otherwise it would be a desert in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. At our meeting today they were mentioning the situation is getting close to the drought of 2000-2001. I wasn't here then, but people who were agreed with that assessment. Bonifay is under the restrictions of watering the tees and greens 3X weekly and the fairways only once per week. The rough and landscaping on the course can't be watered at all. They are trying to maintain the other courses on reclaimed water over the next week or so. Once they dip into the wells, those courses will also be on the same restrictions. Pray for rain. Looks like next Thursday is the best chance in the near future.

[LAshby50]

The wife and I left the bubble for the first time this year. We went to LPGA International in Daytona Beach. A little bit of a drive, but well worth it. We played the Legends course. Conditions were absulutely fabulous. Could not have asked for better. Greens were fast and true. White tees at 6,339 played to a 137 slope. I would do this again next year. Fun to hit off nice turf again.

[bigalibaba]

Pretty good?? That can mean different things to different people.

Try the fairways at Bonifay, Havana, Tierra and Cane Garden and you will begin to understand the majesty of the words "pretty good".

[jgbama]

We are coming down Friday for a week and see rain moving in from the Gulf. Have conditions improved any? A fellow "gonnabee" said a friend, who lives in TV, told him things were turning brown. Just want to get a current condition update.

Thanks.

[mickey100]

Played Glenview last week and it was so-so. From the road, Cane and Mallory look really brown, and I heard their greens don't hold, are like concrete. My friends who play a lot are now playing the courses on the other side of 466, like Tierra, Hacienda and OB, because they seem to be in better shape. But they are aerating the greens, so you better check before you make a reservation. I believe the greens aeration schedules are listed on golfthevillages.com under championship golf. Enjoy your week in The Villages!

[jgbama]

Played Glenview last week and it was so-so. From the road, Cane and Mallory look really brown, and I heard their greens don't hold, are like concrete. My friends who play a lot are now playing the courses on the other side of 466, like Tierra, Hacienda and OB, because they seem to be in better shape. But they are aerating the greens, so you better check before you make a reservation. I believe the greens aeration schedules are listed on golfthevillages.com under championship golf. Enjoy your week in The Villages!

Thanks for the update. They aerated our course here a week or two back. The holes are finally filling in nicely. Will certainly check the link you provided. Thanks again!:thumbup:

[cabo35]

We got in a few holes on Riley Grove before the rain yesterday. The conditions were fair at best. Most course conditions have recently been disappointing. We all know why....water. Hope we have a wet summer and look forward to the courses rising to their potential in the early fall.

[gmcneill]

My neighbor and I played Bonifay last Friday. The course conditions were stressed from play and no rain. Management imposed (rightly so, IMO) cart path only on odd holes, and cart path 90 degree on even holes.

The pro shop staff (Chris and Maureen were extremely pleasant, cordial, informative!!) told us that once the third course- Pensacola- opens up they will begin alternating closings of Destin and Ft Walton to allow for rest and rehab.

[schotzyb]

All the courses should see some improvement from this much needed rain.

[hedoman]

All the courses should see some improvement from this much needed rain.

already look better

[asianthree]

The rain has got to help

[georgetruhart]

think a continuing discussion about contitions would be great....

[ajbrown]

Played OB yesterday. Although the greens are too slow IMO, they putt ok.

The first thing you notice is there is grass there!! It is pretty good shape. The down side to the conditions is that skulled drivers do not go 275 yards :D.

No cart restrictions :highfive:

Before you play, go over to the practice green (10th tee) and drop a few balls just off the green. Of the three balls I dropped, two dissapeared. If you can chip from these lies you can chip anywhere.

Luckily the course was not quite as severe.

[LittleDog]

Just got back from a short trip to Atlanta. With all the rain lately have the restrictions about every other hole being rough only is still in effect for courses south of 466?

John

[ajbrown]

Just got back from a short trip to Atlanta. With all the rain lately have the restrictions about every other hole being rough only is still in effect for courses south of 466?

John

I played Cane Garden last Thursday (5/31) and it still had the restictions.

[LittleDog]

I played Cane Garden last Thursday (5/31) and it still had the restictions.

How much rain do they need to revert to no restrictions?

John

[hedoman]

How much rain do they need to revert to no restrictions?

John

The water authorities won't even reconsider until June 30 the date they set on the last water restrictions. When they allow us to go back to normal water use at home that may be a signal that the restictions for golf may be eased

[PaPaLarry]

I played Cane yesterday also, and thought both fairways and greens were terrible. Hibiscus was closed. Also this thread is from year 2011, from first page, so check dates of posting, so we are talking about updates as of today. Iv'e experienced that courses north of 466 are better over all. Happy Golfing

[MrMark]

I played Cane yesterday also, and thought both fairways and greens were terrible. Hibiscus was closed. Also this thread is from year 2011, from first page, so check dates of posting, so we are talking about updates as of today. Iv'e experienced that courses north of 466 are better over all. Happy Golfing

I played there on Monday. You neglected to comment that the rough has more bare spots than grass. Despite that, in many places the rough looks better than the fairway, assuming you can tell where one ends and the other begins. Hard to even play Winter rules when you can't determine where the fairway is.

Your comments fail to reflect that Cane Garden is A Villages Golf Course. Why would you expect it to be in any better condition. The maintenance on virtually all Villages Courses is typically far inferior to other area courses. Not sure how they continually get away with this while telling us that we live in paradise. I have played three outside courses in the past several months, Juliette Falls, Harbor Hills and Arlington Ridge. All three made the Villages courses seem more deplorable. With recent disclosure of over 2.5 billion net worth for the family Morse,might it not be reasonable that Villagers demand that perhaps a few hundred thousand of this be invested in making TV golf courses as great as their TV commercials suggest.

Actually I'm a content Villager, but isn't it about time that we start to protest the ****ty conditions us golfers are required to face each time we tee it up in our beloved Villages?

By the way, this is intended only for players who have a clue about what I'm talking about!

[Mikeod]

I played there on Monday. You neglected to comment that the rough has more bare spots than grass. Despite that, in many places the rough looks better than the fairway, assuming you can tell where one ends and the other begins. Hard to even play Winter rules when you can't determine where the fairway is.

Your comments fail to reflect that Cane Garden is A Villages Golf Course. Why would you expect it to be in any better condition. The maintenance on virtually all Villages Courses is typically far inferior to other area courses. Not sure how they continually get away with this while telling us that we live in paradise. I have played three outside courses in the past several months, Juliette Falls, Harbor Hills and Arlington Ridge. All three made the Villages courses seem more deplorable. With recent disclosure of over 2.5 billion net worth for the family Morse,might it not be reasonable that Villagers demand that perhaps a few hundred thousand of this be invested in making TV golf courses as great as their TV commercials suggest.

Actually I'm a content Villager, but isn't it about time that we start to protest the ****ty conditions us golfers are required to face each time we tee it up in our beloved Villages?

By the way, this is intended only for players who have a clue about what I'm talking about!
OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

[hedoman]

I played there on Monday. You neglected to comment that the rough has more bare spots than grass. Despite that, in many places the rough looks better than the fairway, assuming you can tell where one ends and the other begins. Hard to even play Winter rules when you can't determine where the fairway is.

Your comments fail to reflect that Cane Garden is A Villages Golf Course. Why would you expect it to be in any better condition. The maintenance on virtually all Villages Courses is typically far inferior to other area courses. Not sure how they continually get away with this while telling us that we live in paradise. I have played three outside courses in the past several months, Juliette Falls, Harbor Hills and Arlington Ridge. All three made the Villages courses seem more deplorable. With recent disclosure of over 2.5 billion net worth for the family Morse,might it not be reasonable that Villagers demand that perhaps a few hundred thousand of this be invested in making TV golf courses as great as their TV commercials suggest.

Actually I'm a content Villager, but isn't it about time that we start to protest the ****ty conditions us golfers are required to face each time we tee it up in our beloved Villages?

By the way, this is intended only for players who have a clue about what I'm talking about!

Recent Observations from personal play:
Lopez - Fabulous
Glenview Pretty Good
Bonifay- On the road to recovery and very playable but slow greens
Saddlebrook EC - very green and in good shape
OB - Probably the best of all

I can't agree with your "$#!tty" comment on conditions. Mikeod said it all in a great post

[chuckster]

Add my observations:

I agree Juliette Falls WAS excellent. However, greens aerated mon. 6/4
Harbor Hills greens poor condition (numerous large bare spots-no grass) sat. 5/26

[BogeyBoy]

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

Great post, thanks.

[Bogie Shooter]

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.


Your well thought out well presented post, covers all the bit#@ing that is constantly posted here. Well said!

[schotzyb]

Your well thought out well presented post, covers all the bit#@ing that is constantly posted here. Well said!


I really liked and found Mikeod's post to be right on but the one thing that irks me is Cane Garden constantly lags behind in it's conditions versus all the other championship courses. For the past three years it has been hit and miss on this course everytime we have played..

[Mikeod]

I really liked and found Mikeod's post to be right on but the one thing that irks me is Cane Garden constantly lags behind in it's conditions versus all the other championship courses. For the past three years it has been hit and miss on this course everytime we have played..
The pro at the country clubs is the Facility Manager, responsible for the course itself as well as for nearby executive courses. From my interaction with the ones that are responsible for the executive courses I "monitor", they are receptive to comments. If you feel that a particular course lags in maintenance compared to others around TV, I would suggest speaking to the pro. You will probably find they are quite aware of any shortcomings and already have a plan to address them. You may find out the maintenance company has been put on notice to improve or face not being renewed when their contract is up.

And they would probably have an answer if you ask why their course isn't as good as those off campus that you may play.

[schotzyb]

The pro at the country clubs is the Facility Manager, responsible for the course itself as well as for nearby executive courses. From my interaction with the ones that are responsible for the executive courses I "monitor", they are receptive to comments. If you feel that a particular course lags in maintenance compared to others around TV, I would suggest speaking to the pro. You will probably find they are quite aware of any shortcomings and already have a plan to address them. You may find out the maintenance company has been put on notice to improve or face not being renewed when their contract is up.

And they would probably have an answer if you ask why their course isn't as good as those off campus that you may play.


Didn't really mean to compare Cane Garden to any off campus courses and I apologize if it came off that way. My concern is that Cane Gardens conditions always lag behind all the other championship courses in the Villages or at least it seems that way to me

[Mikeod]

Didn't really mean to compare Cane Garden to any off campus courses and I apologize if it came off that way. My concern is that Cane Gardens conditions always lag behind all the other championship courses in the Villages or at least it seems that way to me
Nope. I didn't think you were comparing Cane to outside courses. I added that last comment because of the posts in the past that compared our courses to those outside the bubble.

[MrMark]

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

[BogeyBoy]

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

My uninformed opinion is that it is a different type of grass that can look good with less water because it gets less (if any) foot/golf cart traffic.

[Russ_Boston]

I don't really have a problem with tight grass (OK,let's call it dirt) in the fairway since you're hitting the ball first from 150 anyway. It's around the greens when I want to clip a pitch shot a little up on the face. I end up having to chip with an 8 or 9 iron so the bounce on the wedges doesn't bang off the dirt, that's where a little more plush grass would come in very handy.

I would think with the rain we've had over the past two weeks and the amount that is coming today we should be all set for a decent run of great conditions very soon.

[Mikeod]

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

It's not a question of water source. It does come from the same source as the golf courses. The difference is that those areas don't have a parade of golf carts on them all day, every day. Ask any course superintendent about the problem of maintaining turf with golf carts constantly running over it. That's why you see the "Scatter" markers at the end of some paths.

I'm sorry, but I don't see a conspiracy against golfers here. Remember that we constantly have visitors here thinking about buying a home. It is important for TV to have attractive landscaping all around AND to have the courses in the best shape possible. To let either area suffer needlessly would not serve the residents or the developer. As far as the comment that you would rather see the common areas brown so the courses could be greener, remember there are residents here who do not play golf and could not care less about the courses. They enjoy the overall beauty of TV. It would not be fair to take that away from them. What if they could force it the other way!

[mickey100]

I agree. We don't have the water allocations that some of the older courses outside The Villages have, and we have much more cart traffic than those same courses. I think they do the best they can do here, given the parameters they work within. With this rain, the courses should be shaping up nicely. It seems to happen every year - March through May a number of the courses are dried out and basically terrible, then by early to mid-summer, the same courses are fantastic. The opposite will be true as well - courses like Glenview which are normally pretty good in the winter, don't have good drainage, so I'll tend to avoid that course during the rainy summer season. Russ, I'm with you - would love a nice cushion of grass near the green to chip from. Hopefully we'll have that pretty soon.

[PaPaLarry]

OK!!!! Let's play Golf!!!!!:gc::coolsmiley::bigbow:

[hedoman]

I don't really have a problem with tight grass (OK,let's call it dirt) in the fairway since you're hitting the ball first from 150 anyway. It's around the greens when I want to clip a pitch shot a little up on the face. I end up having to chip with an 8 or 9 iron so the bounce on the wedges doesn't bang off the dirt, that's where a little more plush grass would come in very handy.

I would think with the rain we've had over the past two weeks and the amount that is coming today we should be all set for a decent run of great conditions very soon.

Before the rains I was afraid to hit down on the ball with long irons for fear of blowing out an elbow. Weds at Lopez the fairways were finally soft enough to take some turf. We need them to let the rough grow out as sometimes I can't tell where the fairway ends and rough begins, escpecailly when we have to stay in one or the other

[Russ_Boston]

Before the rains I was afraid to hit down on the ball with long irons for fear of blowing out an elbow. Weds at Lopez the fairways were finally soft enough to take some turf. We need them to let the rough grow out as sometimes I can't tell where the fairway ends and rough begins, escpecailly when we have to stay in one or the other

Probably why my elbow has been hurting lately. Didn't think along those lines. Hopefully soft enough now!

[hedoman]

Yes it is true! All restrictions lifted FINALLY! Course is back to being in great shape,good price this time of year and fair pace of play.

Played mllory on Weds. Not a fan of the conditions. Need more rain so the course can heal.....

[MrMark]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

Mallory on Wednesday. Pathetic in all respects. Beginning to think Priority Membership is over priced based on the number of times we choose to play outside TV. By the way, most if not all these off site courses are in far better condition than TV.

[Hoosierb4]

Have the courses recovered from the drought and tropical storm? We'll be there for a short stay in about a week and hope to have nice conditions for golf.

[Autoshow]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

I wonder why this post is still here after 18 months

[Bogie Shooter]

I wonder why this post is still here after 18 months

They don't ever go away................

[NJblue]

I wonder why this post is still here after 18 months

I wonder the opposite. It would be nice if regular golfers on the championship courses updated the conditions more frequently so that those of us who are more infrequent championship players would have a better idea about where the conditions are best. Perhaps at this time of year, with more frequent rain, the assumption is that conditions will be good everywhere.

[rubicon]

Mallory on Wednesday. Pathetic in all respects. Beginning to think Priority Membership is over priced based on the number of times we choose to play outside TV. By the way, most if not all these off site courses are in far better condition than TV.

We agree on Priority. I have held it for six years. You need to play 66 times to breakeven based on TV prices. However when you factor in the fees by utside course the math changes. In addition you need to be in a foursome where all or at least two have priority owing to the how priority is applied. If you are the only one in your group it won't make much difference. I also do not agree that priority and guest beat out priority and resident. Essentially what TV is saying is that strangers get priority over residents who have invested thousand of dollars to live here. I know why it is set the way it is. I just don't agree. I ave decided to terminate my priority especiually since all of my neighbors prefer to play off campus year round

Personal Best Regards;

[mickey100]

Mallory is probably the worst golf course in The Villages right now, condition wise, with Cane being a close second. Not a question of drought conditions, we've had plenty of rain. When I played Amelia the other day, there were tons of weeds around, even on the greens, and the greens are horribly bumpy. They were obviously never rolled after the greens were plugged. That is not environmental causes, that is just poor maintenance. Those 2 courses have been in poor shape for the last couple of years. In my opinion they need to look at getting a different maintenance company. That's what they did when Orange Blossom was so bad, and now its in great shape.

[Indy-Guy]

I wonder why this post is still here after 18 months

I wonder the opposite. It would be nice if regular golfers on the championship courses updated the conditions more frequently so that those of us who are more infrequent championship players would have a better idea about where the conditions are best. Perhaps at this time of year, with more frequent rain, the assumption is that conditions will be good everywhere.

This post has been here long enough it allows you to look back to a year ago and see what the course conditions were then and see if there is a pattern in yearly conditions. So I like being able to do that.

[mickey100]

This thread is also a help to visitors so they know which courses are good, and which ones to avoid.

[hedoman]

Glenview has really bounced back from having some questionable greens on Stirrup to excellent rolling speeds. Amazing what a little rain will do.........

[spk7951]

Played Havana today, Killimanjaro to Kenya, and thought it was in poor condition. First four holes on Killimanjaro have partially burnt out fairways. The other holes on Killimanjaro were not as bad as the 1st four. Greens are not good either. A number of the greens have damage, mostly along the edges, where replacement turf has been put in place. The Kenya nine has recently been aerated from tee to green. Greens are covered in sand, so good luck trying to putt. To make matters even worse the rest rooms at the Kenya starter and out on the fairway are closed for painting. Perhaps a little thought should have gone into that decision????

[mickey100]

Wow, sorry to hear about Havana, that's one of my favorite courses. We played Cane the other day, and they had opened up Hibiscus after a long closure, so we had Alamanda to Hibiscus. The greens on Alamanda were nothing special,but the fairways aren't bad. Hibiscus was ridiculous. The last 3 or 4 greens are so bad, I can't believe they've even opened the course up for play. With everyone gone in the summer, and so many other courses in good shape, why don't they just close down the bad courses and let them recover? And don't get me going on the weeds and poor greens on Amelia (Mallory). I guess we just have to keep using this forum to let people know how things stand, so we can make our reservations at the good courses.

[jbdlfan]

Mallory is probably the worst golf course in The Villages right now, condition wise, with Cane being a close second. Not a question of drought conditions, we've had plenty of rain. When I played Amelia the other day, there were tons of weeds around, even on the greens, and the greens are horribly bumpy. They were obviously never rolled after the greens were plugged. That is not environmental causes, that is just poor maintenance. Those 2 courses have been in poor shape for the last couple of years. In my opinion they need to look at getting a different maintenance company. That's what they did when Orange Blossom was so bad, and now its in great shape.

Oh boy......have you played Bonifay???!?!?!?! I will NEVER play that course again. It was absolutely the worse course I have played since I moved to Florida 5 years ago! They should just close it, it needs a year to repair itself!

[mickey100]

Oh boy......have you played Bonifay???!?!?!?! I will NEVER play that course again. It was absolutely the worse course I have played since I moved to Florida 5 years ago! They should just close it, it needs a year to repair itself!

When did you play, recently? I played it a couple months ago before the rain, and I agree it was horrible then, but just assumed that after plugging the greens, and having all the rain, it would be back in nice shape.

[TomSpasm]

I played Bonifay last week for the first time, clearly there were still a few areas lacking good grass, but overall I thought it was in reasonable shape. Palmer is consistently the best conditioned course I've played in the year I've been here, worth the extra money in my opinion.

[jbdlfan]

We just played it Saturday. Smelled like a hayfield with all the burnout. Not one hole had sufficient grass. They need to shut it down for a few months but that will never happen....

[spk7951]

Got to play nine on Bonifay Pensacola Monday as the course opened to play. My group liked the layout of this course and noted a fair amount of water in play. Elevated tee on #1 is interesting. Hole #9 I especially liked. It is a par 5 that with a good shot in the fairway should give you a good downhill roll and push the possibility of the green in two with water along the right side.

On the downside I am not sure this course is ready yet to be open. Fairways are a little burned but the greens were a bigger issue for us. Every green had slices cut in them maybe one foot apart across the entire green. I would guess this occurred maybe a couple of weeks ago but the greens needed more time to grow. Tough to putt with the bounces and ball getting into the groves. #9 green has a large area of replacement sod that does not appear to be healing very well.

All in all I do like this course and hope it does not get overused and burned out.

[Threeputt]

Go to Lopez OMG fairways like carpets! Greens fast

Glenview in good shpe also. Stay north of 466 for better conditions

[nkrifats]

Wow, sorry to hear about Havana, that's one of my favorite courses. We played Cane the other day, and they had opened up Hibiscus after a long closure, so we had Alamanda to Hibiscus. The greens on Alamanda were nothing special,but the fairways aren't bad. Hibiscus was ridiculous. The last 3 or 4 greens are so bad, I can't believe they've even opened the course up for play. With everyone gone in the summer, and so many other courses in good shape, why don't they just close down the bad courses and let them recover? And don't get me going on the weeds and poor greens on Amelia (Mallory). I guess we just have to keep using this forum to let people know how things stand, so we can make our reservations at the good courses.

Played Cane today Alamanda to Hibiscus and course is not in good shape at all. Should never have been opened. Poor greens and burnt fairways.

[spk7951]

Played Cane today Alamanda to Hibiscus and course is not in good shape at all. Should never have been opened. Poor greens and burnt fairways.


A friend of mine, who happens to work at Cane, recently told me that an outside expert has supposedly been called in to help rectify the poor course conditions at Cane.

[nkrifats]

A friend of mine, who happens to work at Cane, recently told me that an outside expert has supposedly been called in to help rectify the poor course conditions at Cane.

Thanks, nice to hear. Hope they get it on the right path.

[soonfl]

Just played Cane today Sat 7/ 21

Alimanda is playable but Hibiscus is a mess.

Burn out everywhere. But oddly patches with square edges and there are the cart tracks. This does not look like a water problem. It looks chemical.

Paying for these greens is ridiculous. No grass is the norm.

I have walked Jacaranda. Its terrible. Some fairways have dead sod. No excuse. They plant sod and then let it die.

The sod was actually layer on top of the existing sod , no soil prep.
I find it hard to believe that this is a proper standard of care.

What is the logic here.


The other day The Golf management group used it Jacaranda for employee golf when the course is closed to the general public. Why?.

The ponds have been fouled with Hydrilla and pond scum.
They actually smell in the heat of the day. And very ugly.


I don't understand the quality control and over site.

And yes I have left a message for the super.

Play elsewhere. Give them a message.
I wish I knew how to get a petition together, I have had enough with the neglect.

[mickey100]

How terrible. I think what might help if is people write or call the head of golf operations and let him know your dissatisfaction. That happened when Orange Blossom got really bad a couple of years ago, and enough people complained that they went and got a new maintenance company to take over. And the course has been so much better this past year as a result. Time to do that with Cane and Mallory. They both are just awful. I can't remember the man's name - it might be John something. Does anyone else know the name/phone number of the head of golf operations?

[Bogie Shooter]

How terrible. I think what might help if is people write or call the head of golf operations and let him know your dissatisfaction. That happened when Orange Blossom got really bad a couple of years ago, and enough people complained that they went and got a new maintenance company to take over. And the course has been so much better this past year as a result. Time to do that with Cane and Mallory. They both are just awful. I can't remember the man's name - it might be John something. Does anyone else know the name/phone number of the head of golf operations?

I don't have a name, here is the phone number.
•Call Country Club Administration at 352-753-3396 for more information on membership enhancements or other golf/tennis issues.

[nitehawk]

What does the maintenance company do --- move the holes every now and then, from one bare spot to another bare spot - there is no money spent on mowing the non existant grass -- no need to sprinkle, water restictions (need water for new homes) -- maintaine ponds (the holes next to the fairways) ?? oh i almost forgot they do raking of the sand traps (some residents dont have to rake- they are playing at a country club - maybe the caddy will rake for them or the maintance company will do it in the morning) only nicely designed course is orange blossom trees (shad) on some holes. As each course is built the design get worse and worse, just let the grass grow where the bufflo used to roam and put 18 hole in the gound. Great design guys. The Villages/ good life style/ Terrible golf courses i usually outside the villages for cheaper price and use there golf cart with better conditions. Played World Woods last week - good condition not great but good

[chuckster]

Sounds like your not happy at any course..........there's always pickleball orrrr shuffleboard. Bill how about some popcorn....:popcorn:

THANKS!!!

[Threeputt]

What does the maintenance company do --- move the holes every now and then, from one bare spot to another bare spot - there is no money spent on mowing the non existant grass -- no need to sprinkle, water restictions (need water for new homes) -- maintaine ponds (the holes next to the fairways) ?? oh i almost forgot they do raking of the sand traps (some residents dont have to rake- they are playing at a country club - maybe the caddy will rake for them or the maintance company will do it in the morning) only nicely designed course is orange blossom trees (shad) on some holes. As each course is built the design get worse and worse, just let the grass grow where the bufflo used to roam and put 18 hole in the gound. Great design guys. The Villages/ good life style/ Terrible golf courses i usually outside the villages for cheaper price and use there golf cart with better conditions. Played World Woods last week - good condition not great but good

Most courses are around $20 after 11..... MUCH cheaper than outside the bubble
Try OG, Lopez, Glenview or Palmer ALL in excellent condition. Pensacola at Bonifay is brand new and in great shape.Play it before the golfers destroy it.

Don't drag down TV because of one course......just sayin

[mickey100]

Actually Cane and Mallory have both been pretty crummy. Awhile ago they were saying Hacienda was crap too but I haven't played there lately so don't know how it is now. If it is still not good, that would make 3 out of 10 in poor shape, i.e. 30%. Surely The Villages can do better than that! This is the time of year when the courses should be pristine - the greens were plugged not so long ago, we've had plenty of rain and fewer people playing them.

On another note, this is just a rumor, I heard that the maintenance guy for Cane was fired.

[nitehawk]

Oh boy......have you played Bonifay???!?!?!?! I will NEVER play that course again. It was absolutely the worse course I have played since I moved to Florida 5 years ago! They should just close it, it needs a year to repair itself!

When did you play, recently? I played it a couple months ago before the rain, and I agree it was horrible then, but just assumed that after plugging the greens, and having all the rain, it would be back in nice shape.

We just played it Saturday. Smelled like a hayfield with all the burnout. Not one hole had sufficient grass. They need to shut it down for a few months but that will never happen....

Got to play nine on Bonifay Pensacola Monday as the course opened to play. My group liked the layout of this course and noted a fair amount of water in play. Elevated tee on #1 is interesting. Hole #9 I especially liked. It is a par 5 that with a good shot in the fairway should give you a good downhill roll and push the possibility of the green in two with water along the right side.

On the downside I am not sure this course is ready yet to be open. Fairways are a little burned but the greens were a bigger issue for us. Every green had slices cut in them maybe one foot apart across the entire green. I would guess this occurred maybe a couple of weeks ago but the greens needed more time to grow. Tough to putt with the bounces and ball getting into the groves. #9 green has a large area of replacement sod that does not appear to be healing very well.

All in all I do like this course and hope it does not get overused and burned out.

Most courses are around $20 after 11..... MUCH cheaper than outside the bubble
Try OG, Lopez, Glenview or Palmer ALL in excellent condition. Pensacola at Bonifay is brand new and in great shape.Play it before the golfers destroy it.

Don't drag down TV because of one course......just sayin

I rest my case- Please pass the cool-aid

[waynet]

with the money the Morse family gets from us there is no valid reason for any of the golf courses being in bad shape. All I hear are empty excuses. People it's all about the money they put into these courses,plain and simple. Yes, I'm bummed out,Cane is my favorite layout,it's one of the reasons I bought a home in Duval. Hire people who know what they are doing,give them a reasonable budget, and get on with it.

[Mikeod]

with the money the Morse family gets from us there is no valid reason for any of the golf courses being in bad shape. All I hear are empty excuses. People it's all about the money they put into these courses,plain and simple. Yes, I'm bummed out,Cane is my favorite layout,it's one of the reasons I bought a home in Duval. Hire people who know what they are doing,give them a reasonable budget, and get on with it.

The championship courses are self-sustaining, i.e, they exist on the revenue from greens fees, mostly. No amenity fee money is used.

Other than Orange Blossom, all the other courses are still under water restrictions limiting them to one day on fairways and two days on greens/tees and none on the rough. Yes, we've had some rain, but the ground got so hard from the dry winter/spring and all the cart traffic, that it is not penetrating well yet. It is not a coincidence that the courses doing best are those that are older with more mature turf.

Some of the brown areas of new sod are the result of treating aggressive weed infestations. The chemical used to destroy the weeds will result in temporary browning of the new sod. Give it time.



If you think about it, where would the benefit be for the developer to allow the courses to deteriorate for no reason. Would that not affect sales?

[waynet]

I was under the impression that each course had its own budget and greens fees were only part of the equation. I was also told that the reason Palmer is always in good shape is that its' budget is more that the others. I will also say that even if all the info in the above post is true Cane has been suffering for more that a year now and Mallory is not far behind.

[mickey100]

I rest my case- Please pass the cool-aid


Okay, make that 4 out of 10 courses are in poor shape. Not good. As far as the mature turf argument, how about Havana? That course seems to be in good shape, and its much newer than Cane and Mallory. And the last time I played Cane, which was maybe 3 weeks ago, it was just loaded with weeds. Sorry, but that is just poor maintenance, plain and simple.

[ronat1]

How terrible. I think what might help if is people write or call the head of golf operations and let him know your dissatisfaction. That happened when Orange Blossom got really bad a couple of years ago, and enough people complained that they went and got a new maintenance company to take over. And the course has been so much better this past year as a result. Time to do that with Cane and Mallory. They both are just awful. I can't remember the man's name - it might be John something. Does anyone else know the name/phone number of the head of golf operations?
The Director of Country Club Operations is Ken Creely, the Asst. Director of Country Club Operations is Eric Greulach and the Golf Operations Manager is Todd Basso. Also the Head Groundskeeper at Cane Garden has been fired and rightfully so. The above three individuals should also take just as much of the responsibility and blame for the conditions because nothing is allowed to be done on the courses without their approval.

[Bogie Shooter]

Posting all your complaints on this site will accomplish nothing. Why not call the above individuals and discuss your "issues"??

[mickey100]

The Director of Country Club Operations is Ken Creely, the Asst. Director of Country Club Operations is Eric Greulach and the Golf Operations Manager is Todd Basso. Also the Head Groundskeeper at Cane Garden has been fired and rightfully so. The above three individuals should also take just as much of the responsibility and blame for the conditions because nothing is allowed to be done on the courses without their approval.

Todd Basso is the name I was looking for. I've spoken to him in the past, and he seems very honest, and concerned about the course conditions. Thanks Ronat1.

[Mikeod]

Okay, make that 4 out of 10 courses are in poor shape. Not good. As far as the mature turf argument, how about Havana? That course seems to be in good shape, and its much newer than Cane and Mallory. And the last time I played Cane, which was maybe 3 weeks ago, it was just loaded with weeds. Sorry, but that is just poor maintenance, plain and simple.
Can't comment about Cane. I haven't played it in a while. Not one of my favorite courses. There is a post that the maintenance company has been fired. The maintenance of all the courses is outsourced to several companies and they can be, and are, terminated for poor performance.

My point is that the courses have suffered through two winters of exceptionally cold weather followed by dry summers. Then we experienced a mild winter/spring this year with little rainfall. The mild season coupled with the increased play from seasonal residents, guests, and visitors created a situation that severely compromised the turf quality, more in the southern area of TV, than northern. It will take more than the rain we've had so far for the courses to recover completely. Aerating will help. Rotating closing a nine on each course will help a bit. Following the 90 degree rule will help.

Perhaps having lived previously in an area that suffered water shortages annually and living with that effect on golf courses has given me a different perspective on conditions. Public, private, and muni courses alike suffered from shortages of water and they had nowhere near the amount of play we have on these courses.

[mickey100]

Posting all your complaints on this site will accomplish nothing. Why not call the above individuals and discuss your "issues"??

I agree and really believe they listen when they get complaints regarding the courses. But it has to be more than one person. One person is a crank. 50 people is something they will pay attention to.

[Bogie Shooter]

I agree and really believe they listen when they get complaints regarding the courses. But it has to be more than one person. One person is a crank. 50 people is something they will pay attention to.

I think I have read some "crank" posts.:laugh:

[rubicon]

The Developer owns both championship and executive courses. these courses get heavy play and that will only increase as the population increases.

Championship courses charge top dollar in prime season and off season to courses off campus and keep in mind the price does not consider a cat since residents use their own so add upward of $18.00 for 18 holes of golf . Ccourses off campus seem to do better with fair/greesn perhaps because they do not get as much play (?)

I am a priority member but will drop it this year because I am not getting bang for my buck. My neighborhood plays mostly off campus.
Obviously what TV courses offer residents is quicker access.

[spk7951]

The Developer owns both championship and executive courses. these courses get heavy play and that will only increase as the population increases.

Championship courses charge top dollar in prime season and off season to courses off campus and keep in mind the price does not consider a cat since residents use their own so add upward of $18.00 for 18 holes of golf . Ccourses off campus seem to do better with fair/greesn perhaps because they do not get as much play (?)

I am a priority member but will drop it this year because I am not getting bang for my buck. My neighborhood plays mostly off campus.
Obviously what TV courses offer residents is quicker access.


Not so sure that is entirely correct. I thought the VCCDD owned the exec courses north of 466 and SLCDD owned the exec courses south of 466, at least for now?

[Mikeod]

Not so sure that is entirely correct. I thought the VCCDD owned the exec courses north of 466 and SLCDD owned the exec courses south of 466, at least for now?

The developer owns all the championship courses and all executive courses south of 466 except Pimlico, Churchill Greens, and Belmont. Other courses have been turned over to the VCCDD and SLCDD.

[Threeputt]

:clap2:Can't comment about Cane. I haven't played it in a while. Not one of my favorite courses. There is a post that the maintenance company has been fired. The maintenance of all the courses is outsourced to several companies and they can be, and are, terminated for poor performance.

My point is that the courses have suffered through two winters of exceptionally cold weather followed by dry summers. Then we experienced a mild winter/spring this year with little rainfall. The mild season coupled with the increased play from seasonal residents, guests, and visitors created a situation that severely compromised the turf quality, more in the southern area of TV, than northern. It will take more than the rain we've had so far for the courses to recover completely. Aerating will help. Rotating closing a nine on each course will help a bit. Following the 90 degree rule will help.

Perhaps having lived previously in an area that suffered water shortages annually and living with that effect on golf courses has given me a different perspective on conditions. Public, private, and muni courses alike suffered from shortages of water and they had nowhere near the amount of play we have on these courses.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Well said. Ken Creely and his GMS organization is also an outsourced company hired to manage golf operations.

[Threeputt]

The Developer owns both championship and executive courses. these courses get heavy play and that will only increase as the population increases.

Championship courses charge top dollar in prime season and off season to courses off campus and keep in mind the price does not consider a cat since residents use their own so add upward of $18.00 for 18 holes of golf . Ccourses off campus seem to do better with fair/greesn perhaps because they do not get as much play (?)

I am a priority member but will drop it this year because I am not getting bang for my buck. My neighborhood plays mostly off campus.
Obviously what TV courses offer residents is quicker access.

This staement is not correct in that the VCDD/Slcdd owns most of the execs. Cart fees at $18? Never seen that as the most we rent em for is 10$. Fees too high in the winter? Try getting a tee time..... just sayin.

[ronat1]

Just to clear up the point of golf course ownership by quoting the VCDD Community Development District's website Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org), "While the Country Clubs are owned and operated by the developer of The Villages, the Executive Golf Trail courses are owned and operated by the Village Center Community Development District and the Sumter Landing Community Development District. They are supported and maintained by the amenities fees of the residents of The Villages, meaning Greens Fees are free for all Village Residents." Hope this clarifies the different opinions.

[bevlaur]

Can anyone come up with a true evaluation of all the championship courses in The Villages??? Would like to see it!

[chuckster]

Best way is to play all courses and form your own opinions of the courses. IMHO.... What I might think is terrific might not rate as high with others.

[Russ_Boston]

The best course in The Villages is an easy one: It's the course that I'm playing now. I work so I don't play everyday but I play 2-3 championship a week and 1-3 execs (yes I play two on some days!). At times I have seen every single course in TV either have great conditions or horrible conditions. Kind of depends on time of year and blind luck.

Overall I've had the best luck with Glenview but that may just be timing.

[NJblue]

Just to clear up the point of golf course ownership by quoting the VCDD Community Development District's website Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org), "While the Country Clubs are owned and operated by the developer of The Villages, the Executive Golf Trail courses are owned and operated by the Village Center Community Development District and the Sumter Landing Community Development District. They are supported and maintained by the amenities fees of the residents of The Villages, meaning Greens Fees are free for all Village Residents." Hope this clarifies the different opinions.

I'm not sure about the quote from the web site, but Janet Tutt has publicly stated that most of the amenities (i.e., exec golf courses) south of 466A are still owned by the developer. This will eventually change when the IRS issue is cleared up and the CDD can acquire them.

[Threeputt]

The best course in The Villages is an easy one: It's the course that I'm playing now. I work so I don't play everyday but I play 2-3 championship a week and 1-3 execs (yes I play two on some days!). At times I have seen every single course in TV either have great conditions or horrible conditions. Kind of depends on time of year and blind luck.

Overall I've had the best luck with Glenview but that may just be timing.

During the drought my group would not request a time south of 466. I have played all championship courses in the past month and my rankings IMHO
1.Orange Blossom
2. Lopez
3 Glenview
4.Palmer
5. Bonifay- NEW Pensacola
6. Havana
7. Hacienda
8.Tierra


do not play
Mallory
Caine

[waynet]

with the money garnered by these courses I think there is no valid reason why all these courses are are the least in good shape. Cane and Mallory are an embarrassment to the Villages. Get some people who know what they are doing and increase the budgets for the courses. Make a profit but don't gouge.

[Mikeod]

with the money garnered by these courses I think there is no valid reason why all these courses are are the least in good shape. Cane and Mallory are an embarrassment to the Villages. Get some people who know what they are doing and increase the budgets for the courses. Make a profit but don't gouge.
Unfortunately, you can't buy rain. All the courses except Orange Blossom are on water restrictions that limit watering to one day on fairway and two days on greens. There is just so much you can do to maintain turfgrass that is subject to the traffic we have here without adequate water. All the courses that started to green up after the late June rains are now starting to show the stress of lack of water.

[schotzyb]

Unfortunately, you can't buy rain. All the courses except Orange Blossom are on water restrictions that limit watering to one day on fairway and two days on greens. There is just so much you can do to maintain turfgrass that is subject to the traffic we have here without adequate water. All the courses that started to green up after the late June rains are now starting to show the stress of lack of water.

Understand what you are saying but Cane Garden namely Hibiscus has been an embarrassment for the last 3 years.

[soonfl]

Seems that after 15 August Cane will close once again.
Jacaranda will open at that time.

[mickey100]

Understand what you are saying but Cane Garden namely Hibiscus has been an embarrassment for the last 3 years.

Agree. I don't understand why Havana, which is much newer, is always in better shape than Cane. It makes you ask - is it the maintenance company ? or was it constructed in a different (better) manner? Both courses probably get about the same amount of rain.

[spk7951]

Both courses probably get about the same amount of rain.


Not necessarily true around here. Couple of weeks ago I was playing Kenya and as we approached the green on hole #3 the wind picked up and it started raining hard. Waited about 5 minutes to see if it would slow down before heading back to the clubhouse for a credit. At Havana pro shop the rain was light. When I got back to my house, which is about 1/4 mile from Havana pro shop, the roads were dry and we did not get any rain that afternoon. See that often here where one place gets rain and another does not.

[Mikeod]

Agree. I don't understand why Havana, which is much newer, is always in better shape than Cane. It makes you ask - is it the maintenance company ? or was it constructed in a different (better) manner? Both courses probably get about the same amount of rain.
I can't speak about Cane since I haven't played there in years, but the post indicating the maintenance group was fired indicates at least some of the problem is maintenance.

[Hank & Nancy Lehn]

We haven't played Nancy Lopez courses yet. They appear to be in great shape judging what we can see from the road. Any comments about greens, fairways, t-boxes etc,
Thanks ,
Hank

[ajbrown]

Yeah, I know old thread... but still valuable.

IMO TV championship courses are in pretty good shape as a whole right now. I post this not to be negative, but just to let folks know. Glenview's greens are some of the worst I have seen in TV recently. If you have a guest like I did today, you have other choices.....

[Bogie Shooter]

How can a post in July of 2012 of course conditions have any meaning today?
Maybe its time for a new thread?

[gomoho]

Go for it....

[ajbrown]

How can a post in July of 2012 of course conditions have any meaning today?
Maybe its time for a new thread?

I am not sure why a thread has to be started? It is just a running status of course conditions posted when folks play ..... I played today, anyone that hits new posts sees it. ..... :shrug:

[PaPaLarry]

Needs to be disabled by Monerator

[Fourpar]

:ho:Really, PaPa? Course conditions change constantly. Seems like this forum is just the place for golfers to pass info back and forth.
It's not like anyone has to look if they have no interest in the topic.

[Russ_Boston]

:ho:Really, PaPa? Course conditions change constantly. Seems like this forum is just the place for golfers to pass info back and forth.
It's not like anyone has to look if they have no interest in the topic.


I think PaPa meant - IF it were to be cancelled or closed it would need to be done by the moderator - but I agree with others, just keep it as a running conditions thread. Played Mission Inn (Las Colinas (http://www.missioninnresort.com/orlando-golf-resort/orlando-golf-courses/las-colinas-golf-course)) the other day and I though the conditions were dreadful, hard pan everywhere. Over-seed dying out and new grass not in yet.

[PaPaLarry]

I think PaPa meant - IF it were to be cancelled or closed it would need to be done by the moderator - but I agree with others, just keep it as a running conditions thread. Played Mission Inn (Las Colinas (http://www.missioninnresort.com/orlando-golf-resort/orlando-golf-courses/las-colinas-golf-course)) the other day and I though the conditions were dreadful, hard pan everywhere. Over-seed dying out and new grass not in yet.
Thats what I meant Russ!!! I like to read updates (if possible) of courses people have played in last 2 weeks or less, so I know to stay away for one reason or another. (Like Mallory doesn't have a practice putting green yet)

[mickey100]

We have been having good luck with conditions at Tierra. Not so good luck at Cane - we played Jacaranda last week and it was awful. Dry and hard, and if you were 2 inches off the fairway, there were large areas with no grass, just brown dried up dust/hardpan. I really felt they should have that course closed.

[collie1228]

Played Bonifay yesterday (Destin/Ft. Walton) and conditions were pretty good. Grass was in good shape on greens and fairways.

[mickey100]

Played Havana on Friday and conditions were pretty good as well. Nice grass on the fairways. One or two greens might have been a little skimpy on grass, but overall was nice shape. Off the fairways you do run into some patches where there is no grass, probably due to lack of water. We can use some rain!

[kimball]

Thats what I meant Russ!!! I like to read updates (if possible) of courses people have played in last 2 weeks or less, so I know to stay away for one reason or another. (Like Mallory doesn't have a practice putting green yet)

Played Glenview this morning. Greens at Fox run, in a word, were "deplorable". Have been playing Glenview since it first opened and today was the worst condition I've ever seen on the greens.

[djl8412]

:shrug:
Course conditions seem to get a lot of attention when seasonal residents are here. Conditions are better overall, very few exceptions occur and rates jump way up. And, what a coincidence: Tierra Del Sol and nine holes of Hacienda Hills will be closed when seasonals are absent, leaving permanent residents with fewer choices. Add to this, the policies of running irrigation systems around the clock when the ponds receive large runoffs in heavy rains for "flood control." Having more water poured on to saturated ground with much of it draining back in to these ponds doesn't make much sense, especially when our rainfall has been less than adequate the past few years. I also believe it aids in bringing more fungal diseases to greens and fairways. Does it ever occur to management that maintaining higher levels in retention ponds would result in saving needed irrigation supply for future drought conditions? Before we know it, it will be cart path only travel because watering management is unfounded. The Villages continues to expand thus demanding more water. For once is it possible to be pro-active instead of reactive?

[mickey100]

Played Glenview this morning. Greens at Fox run, in a word, were "deplorable". Have been playing Glenview since it first opened and today was the worst condition I've ever seen on the greens.

My spouse played there recently and had the same thoughts on the condition. What a shame - the course used to be so nice.:swear:

[Mikeod]

:shrug:
Course conditions seem to get a lot of attention when seasonal residents are here. Conditions are better overall, very few exceptions occur and rates jump way up. And, what a coincidence: Tierra Del Sol and nine holes of Hacienda Hills will be closed when seasonals are absent, leaving permanent residents with fewer choices. Add to this, the policies of running irrigation systems around the clock when the ponds receive large runoffs in heavy rains for "flood control." Having more water poured on to saturated ground with much of it draining back in to these ponds doesn't make much sense, especially when our rainfall has been less than adequate the past few years. I also believe it aids in bringing more fungal diseases to greens and fairways. Does it ever occur to management that maintaining higher levels in retention ponds would result in saving needed irrigation supply for future drought conditions? Before we know it, it will be cart path only travel because watering management is unfounded. The Villages continues to expand thus demanding more water. For once is it possible to be pro-active instead of reactive?
When would you prefer they close those courses for necessary refurbishment? During the high season? What effect do you think reducing available tee times when demand is the highest would have? The spring/summer is the best time to do these things. I don't buy a conspiracy to make the courses better for the high season when rates are higher and/or limit availability for full-time residents during the summer.

Regarding water management, I would suggest you contact golf administration to learn more about water management in TV. You will find it is far more extensive than you imagine. And far more involved than you think. As far as being proactive, think about the fact that they have constructed the ability to move water between the retention ponds so that there is equal distribution of a limited resource and can move water from ponds nearing capacity to those that are lower. Watering during periods of heavy rain is done to prevent ponds overflowing and flooding nearby residences. Yes, the water EVENTUALLY gets back to the ponds, but it's not quick. Much does soak through the porous soil beneath the fairways and greens. And some of that watering is on the common area landscaping where it won't just drain back. Don't forget that, for most of us, our irrigation water comes from the same source as the golf courses. So, the more we use on our lawns and shrubs, the less is available for the golf courses.

[djl8412]

When would you prefer they close those courses for necessary refurbishment? During the high season? What effect do you think reducing available tee times when demand is the highest would have? The spring/summer is the best time to do these things. I don't buy a conspiracy to make the courses better for the high season when rates are higher and/or limit availability for full-time residents during the summer.

:confused:Regarding water management, I would suggest you contact golf administration to learn more about water management in TV. You will find it is far more extensive than you imagine. And far more involved than you think. As far as being proactive, think about the fact that they have constructed the ability to move water between the retention ponds so that there is equal distribution of a limited resource and can move water from ponds nearing capacity to those that are lower. Watering during periods of heavy rain is done to prevent ponds overflowing and flooding nearby residences. Yes, the water EVENTUALLY gets back to the ponds, but it's not quick. Much does soak through the porous soil beneath the fairways and greens. And some of that watering is on the common area landscaping where it won't just drain back. Don't forget that, for most of us, our irrigation water comes from the same source as the golf courses. So, the more we use on our lawns and shrubs, the less is available for the golf courses.

I don't recall claiming a conspiracy theory but I won't split hairs. My claim is that attempts should be made at refurbishments taking place at all times of the year unless weather dictates otherwise. The heat of the summer is never an ideal time for new grass growth. It would be subject to more diseases and require more water. Weather in Florida allows for construction/excavation all year.

I don't see how the retention ponds on the golf courses would flood nearby residences. It's almost comical to see irrigation heads that are below standing water in the middle of a fairway actively spewing more water or standing water in the valleys along Buena Vista Blvd. that doesn't drain due to clogging with irrigation heads adding more water to the situation. Yes, there have been instances of back yards of residences being flooded but not from golf course retention ponds but from constant silt build up in larger pipes in the storm drain system. If there is ability to move water from pond to pond, that luxury would negate having to keep irrigation systems running needlessly. What it boils down to is re-evaluating irrigation practices versus the theory "that's the way we've always done it."

[Mikeod]

[QUOTE=djl8412;658412]I don't recall claiming a conspiracy theory but I won't split hairs. My claim is that attempts should be made at refurbishments taking place at all times of the year unless weather dictates otherwise. The heat of the summer is never an ideal time for new grass growth. It would be subject to more diseases and require more water. Weather in Florida allows for construction/excavation all year.

/QUOTE]

That's where you're wrong. These golf courses use bermuda turf for tees, fairways, and greens. Bermuda loves heat. That's why it goes dormant when ground temps drop in the winter, necessitating overseeding with annual ryegrass. Summer is the best time to address turf issues since the grass loves the heat and there usually are frequent rainstorms to provide moisture and promote new growth.

Sorry if I misread your post, but it seemed to imply that course conditions were intentionally optimized for the high season when rates are higher, and allowed to deteriorate when the seasonal residents and renters left.

[mulligan]

And to add to what mike said, we have the biggest and most successful stormwater/ wastewater management system in Florida.

[djl8412]

I understand the seasonal grasses issue but that is only one issue surrounding a total refurbishment contract. Is it not possible to accomplish that in phases throughout the year?

If we have such an advanced water system, why can't it be tweaked occasionally to take full advantage of it's technology. Is it not possible to disable certain zones from distributing into already standing water and correct situations where silt buildup restricts and prevents drainage? These situations have existed for years. Perhaps our district management can help ensure that contractor's silt fences are actually erected properly?

[Mikeod]

I understand the seasonal grasses issue but that is only one issue surrounding a total refurbishment contract. Is it not possible to accomplish that in phases throughout the year?

If we have such an advanced water system, why can't it be tweaked occasionally to take full advantage of it's technology. Is it not possible to disable certain zones from distributing into already standing water and correct situations where silt buildup restricts and prevents drainage? These situations have existed for years. Perhaps our district management can help ensure that contractor's silt fences are actually erected properly?

I think the rationale for closing courses in the summer is a sincere effort to have the most availability when the population is highest. Having the most tee times during a period when the demand is also highest makes sense to me. Don't forget, these courses have people on them from dawn to dusk almost every day. It can create dangerous conditions for both workers and golfers to try to accomlish significant renovations while play is ongoing.

Removing 27 holes from play leaves 243 available. With the reduced population in the summer, I believe that should be sufficient. It appears we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Enjoy your day.

[djl8412]

Amen to that. Back at Ya!

[PaPaLarry]

I think the rationale for closing courses in the summer is a sincere effort to have the most availability when the population is highest. Having the most tee times during a period when the demand is also highest makes sense to me. Don't forget, these courses have people on them from dawn to dusk almost every day. It can create dangerous conditions for both workers and golfers to try to accomlish significant renovations while play is ongoing.

Removing 27 holes from play leaves 243 available. With the reduced population in the summer, I believe that should be sufficient. It appears we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Enjoy your day.
I'm prettysure, during the months the courses will be closed. there will still be ample tee times throughout The Villages. I'm always amazed, (during these next 5 months) when I look for a tee time for next day, there are so many openings. You have to love it!!!!

[ajbrown]

IMO Hacienda Hills has the best greens in TV right now (Palms to Lakes). Pickings are very slim during aerating season, but today the greens were very playable.

Played Cane yesterday (Jacaranda to Allamanda). Cane is recovering very slowly (not ready), in fact has one temporary green.

My playing partners say Lopez and Glenview are much worse than Cane.

[chuckster]

IMHO....Disagree with Glenview greens as stated....played Stirrup to Talley today and greens in good shape.

[ajbrown]

IMHO....Disagree with Glenview greens as stated....played Stirrup to Talley today and greens in good shape.

That is good to know, will put those on my list. he was saying that 2 greens were temporary and made it sound awful. Possibly Fox Run??, I should have payed closer attention.

Thanks!

[mickey100]

Sometimes we all have different opinions on what is considered "good shape". I hope the greens have improved at Glenview. A couple of weeks ago they were awful.

We were talking to people today that played Mallory and Havana recently and they said those courses are not in good shape. And my friend played OB yesterday and said it was really rough around the edges. Hacienda has been consistently good. Pickings are definitely slim with aeration going on, and Tierra being closed.

[PaPaLarry]

Sometimes we all have different opinions on what is considered "good shape". I hope the greens have improved at Glenview. A couple of weeks ago they were awful.

We were talking to people today that played Mallory and Havana recently and they said those courses are not in good shape. And my friend played OB yesterday and said it was really rough around the edges. Hacienda has been consistently good. Pickings are definitely slim with aeration going on, and Tierra being closed.
The courses with more shade, seem to be a little stronger? Don't forget, we haven't had much rain. If you take a look a peoples lawns, (especially zoysia) you can see a lot of drying up. (needs water) If, we get the rain for the next week that they are predicting in the late afternoons, we should see a difference. I trust our professionals, to get us back to good golfing. (I hope I'm right? hehe) Tee times are plentiful all over TV, on Championship courses, even while Tierra is closed

[LittleDog]

Played Mallory on Friday- Virginia to Amelia. Fairways were very good. Greens were still recovering from aeration. A little bit bumpy.

John

[BarryRX]

I just played kildeere at Evans Prairie and thought the greens were very playable for having recently aerated and sanded. Two weeks ago we played Lopez after aerating and sanding, and it was terrible. I have always wondered why golf courses (not just in TV) don't give a discount when conditions are poor due to necessary maintenance.

[ajbrown]

Played Mallory on Friday- Virginia to Alamanda. Fairways were very good. Greens were still recovering from aeration. A little bit bumpy.

John

Interesting, thanks for the info, I was about to ask if Mallory greens were ok before I read this. According to the schedule those greens were not to be aerated until 5/31.

Were they aerated or just awful :shocked:

I do know that golfthevillages.com has a notice on the web site about issues with Mallory and Glenview greens.

[mickey100]

Yes, we read that and have been avoiding Mallory and Glenview. We played Hacienda today, and the greens were okay, not great, but okay. S
There are some areas on the greens and off the fairways where the grass is getting sparse. As has been mentioned, the dry spell is taking its toll on the courses. Hopefully the rain this week will help.

[mulligan]

They don't offer a discount during aeration, but they do publish the schedule. If recently aerated courses are not your cup of tea, play the others.

[OnTrack]

I have always wondered why golf courses (not just in TV) don't give a discount when conditions are poor due to necessary maintenance.

I agree. :thumbup:

I have played courses where they do that, with no appreciable loss in revenue...but a big boost in loyalty.

It could be that our courses just figure they have a captive audience, thereby fostering the arrogant attitude of..."If you don't like it, go somewhere else."


.

[nitehawk]

The golf courses in upstate ny are the best i have ever seen-them lush green fairways, and the greens weathered the winter in great condition - paid no more then $30 for the top courses - weather has been great cool nights and in 70s and sunny in the day. Trees have their spring green leaves and the air is fresh and clean - no humidity

[glencus]

I agree. :thumbup:

I have played courses where they do that, with no appreciable loss in revenue...but a big boost in loyalty.

It could be that our courses just figure they have a captive audience, thereby fostering the arrogant attitude of..."If you don't like it, go somewhere else."


.

I'll add a little fuel to the fire. Played Lopez today, just 3 weeks after the course was managed to be in pristine conditions for the LPGA Legends tournament. In a short three weeks, they have turned an LPGA tournament venue into a pasture for the residents to play. The greens, a couple weeks after aeration are bare and awful.. Looks like they haven't been watered since the old ladies left. Ditto the fairways. Why is it that conditions can be so exceptional for the LPGA ladies and so ****ty for us residents who pay the damn bills. Talk to the powers that be and all you will get is BS excuses that far to many residents, in their lack of wisdom, readily accept.

[Russ_Boston]

Played Mallory on Friday- Virginia to Amelia. Fairways were very good. Greens were still recovering from aeration. A little bit bumpy.

John

John - Not scheduled for aeration until 5/31.

Those conditions are caused by their attempt to kill weeds etc. There was a link to an explanation in an earlier post. Looks to me like it also has to do with the tire tracks of the vehicle used to put down the weed killer. All the really bumpy parts were in absolutely straight lines across the greens. Awful (at least last Wednesday on Caroline)

http://www.golfthevillages.com/championship-golf/maintenance.asp?course=MALLORY HILL (http://www.golfthevillages.com/championship-golf/maintenance.asp?course=MALLORY HILLY)

[nitehawk]

I'll add a little fuel to the fire. Played Lopez today, just 3 weeks after the course was managed to be in pristine conditions for the LPGA Legends tournament. In a short three weeks, they have turned an LPGA tournament venue into a pasture for the residents to play. The greens, a couple weeks after aeration are bare and awful.. Looks like they haven't been watered since the old ladies left. Ditto the fairways. Why is it that conditions can be so exceptional for the LPGA ladies and so ****ty for us residents who pay the damn bills. Talk to the powers that be and all you will get is BS excuses that far to many residents, in their lack of wisdom, readily accept.

:bigbow: i mentioned he word "pasture" and got jumped all over by the kool-aiders -- I should not call one of our wonderful courses a cow pasture with sand traps -i was complaining about the new courses with no design and cheaply made club houses that look like key west

[mickey100]

I wasn't too impressed with the newer courses. If I never place Evans Prairie again it will be too soon. We have been in a drought, and there are water restrictions, so I give the powers that be a little understanding. But, we all know that drought or not, Palmer will be pristine once it recovers from aerification. And coincidentally it will be the most expensive. All in all, we haven't found the courses here to be any great shakes. I guess it depends what you're used to playing on and paying for. I agree that the courses in northern NY are much, much better for cheaper prices. But they are only good for about 4 months/year. Its got to be hard to maintain courses here that get such high play in Jan - april, then the scorching heat of the summer. We are a captive audience, though, and they certainly take advantage of it. There are some much nicer courses outside The villages if you feel like driving.

[Mikeod]

I wasn't too impressed with the newer courses. If I never place Evans Prairie again it will be too soon. We have been in a drought, and there are water restrictions, so I give the powers that be a little understanding. But, we all know that drought or not, Palmer will be pristine once it recovers from aerification. And coincidentally it will be the most expensive. All in all, we haven't found the courses here to be any great shakes. I guess it depends what you're used to playing on and paying for. I agree that the courses in northern NY are much, much better for cheaper prices. But they are only good for about 4 months/year. Its got to be hard to maintain courses here that get such high play in Jan - april, then the scorching heat of the summer. We are a captive audience, though, and they certainly take advantage of it. There are some much nicer courses outside The villages if you feel like driving.

One thing I understand, but don't understand, is the summer after hours play. With all the play the courses get, and during the hottest time of the year, wouldn't it be better to let the courses rest those hours in the late afternoon and evening? I know it gives some residents an opportunity to play the "big" courses at a reduced rate, but at what cost to conditions.

[Polar Bear]

One thing I understand, but don't understand, is the summer after hours play. With all the play the courses get, and during the hottest time of the year, wouldn't it be better to let the courses rest those hours in the late afternoon and evening? I know it gives some residents an opportunity to play the "big" courses at a reduced rate, but at what cost to conditions.

Ouch!! You've hit a sensitive spot. :eek:

Late afternoon and evening during the summer is my absolute #1 preferred time to play. Fewer crowds, beautiful late-day sunshine/sunsets. And from my experience, I don't think the amount of play during that season/time-of-day has any adverse impacts on the courses.

[glencus]

Ouch!! You've hit a sensitive spot. :eek:

Late afternoon and evening during the summer is my absolute #1 preferred time to play. Fewer crowds, beautiful late-day sunshine/sunsets. And from my experience, I don't think the amount of play during that season/time-of-day has any adverse impacts on the courses.

The pocketbook is king!

[mickey100]

One thing I understand, but don't understand, is the summer after hours play. With all the play the courses get, and during the hottest time of the year, wouldn't it be better to let the courses rest those hours in the late afternoon and evening? I know it gives some residents an opportunity to play the "big" courses at a reduced rate, but at what cost to conditions.

I totally agree. I remember times when it is so hot and we haven't had rain, where you see where the golf cart tire tracks on the fairways has burned and scorched the grass. Sure seems like they'd be trying to limit play, instead of encouraging it. And to be honest, it bothers me that I pay the big $$ for a priority membership, and people who don't pay the priority membership fees, and many times are beginner type golfers who have no clue about filling divots, repairing ball marks etc, are allowed to play for reduced rates.

[Russ_Boston]

And to be honest, it bothers me that I pay the big $$ for a priority membership, and people who don't pay the priority membership fees, and many times are beginner type golfers who have no clue about filling divots, repairing ball marks etc, are allowed to play for reduced rates.

Huh? I know lot's of snowbirds who are single digit players who do pay priority since they don't get enough play in to make it break-even. I don't play much during the winter and actually prefer the spring/summer/fall golf due to lower rates and much lower crowds. Winter time I prefer off-campus. I'm not a beginner or have no clue about divots etc. (I hover around a 10 handicap). Not sure what your beef is. Priority is to get a better chance at tee times and it gives you a break on the green fees (more in winter, less in summer) - PERIOD. This is not class warfare.

[Polar Bear]

...I totally agree. I remember times when it is so hot and we haven't had rain, where you see where the golf cart tire tracks on the fairways has burned and scorched the grass. Sure seems like they'd be trying to limit play, instead of encouraging it...

Whoa...I am NOT talking about riding. Walking summer evenings is the best. No reason to limit that IMHO. I don't want tire tracks on the course any more than you do. :^)

[Mikeod]

Whoa! I didn't intend to take the conversation off topic. We are talking about course conditions and my point was, as Mickey pointed out, that when the course is stressed due to heat, drought, or whatever, that adding more players per day cannot help improve the conditions. Given enough rain with reduced play in the summer, after hours play is a great opportunity for residents to enjoy the courses.

[ajbrown]

IMHO....Disagree with Glenview greens as stated....played Stirrup to Talley today and greens in good shape.

If I had not read this post, I would have not played Glenview. I played the same two nines this morning and thought the greens were very playable. Much better than what I was told.

Thanks you Chuckster.

[mickey100]

Whoa! I didn't intend to take the conversation off topic. We are talking about course conditions and my point was, as Mickey pointed out, that when the course is stressed due to heat, drought, or whatever, that adding more players per day cannot help improve the conditions. .

Exactly. Thank you for stating it better than I seemed to.

[mickey100]

Played lopez the other day and the fairways and greens were in good shape.

[Bogie Shooter]

Ah.............the wonders of rain.

[glencus]

Played lopez the other day and the fairways and greens were in good shape.

Me too. You call those greens good? Guess it's all got to do with expectations.

[mickey100]

Well, my expectations are generally above what many here are finding acceptable. We played Torri - found the greens consistent, good speed i.e. not too fast or too slow. This was Friday (yesterday). There were a couple of small areas on a green or two that had a moss like growth on them but it was not near the cup and didn't interfere with play. Which courses on Lopez did you not like and when did you play? I'm still not thrilled with their sand traps - they have lots of little pebbles.

[CatskillBill]

Well, my expectations are generally above what many here are finding acceptable. We played Torri - found the greens consistent, good speed i.e. not too fast or too slow. This was Friday (yesterday). There were a couple of small areas on a green or two that had a moss like growth on them but it was not near the cup and didn't interfere with play. Which courses on Lopez did you not like and when did you play? I'm still not thrilled with their sand traps - they have lots of little pebbles.


Erin's greens were terrible when I played last saturday. Big sand circles and large pathes with no grass. What a shame. Arlington Ridge's greens and fairways are far superior to any of the Village's courses.

This weekend's Father's Day special was golf with cart, good lunch and free beer for $24.95. And free replays all day even after your lunch. It''s worth the 25 minute drive.

[mickey100]

Erin's greens were terrible when I played last saturday. Big sand circles and large pathes with no grass. What a shame. Arlington Ridge's greens and fairways are far superior to any of the Village's courses.

This weekend's Father's Day special was golf with cart, good lunch and free beer for $24.95. And free replays all day even after your lunch. It''s worth the 25 minute drive.

Sounds like a great deal. I played Arlington about 5 years ago and really like it. We must have gotten lucky with Torri - will avoid Erin for awhile!

[collie1228]

Played Cane Garden Friday (Hibiscus to Jacaranda) and found conditions to be pretty good overall. The wonder of rain, I guess. Greens were lush and not bumpy at all, but somewhat slow. Fairways were the best I've seen at Cane.

[justjim]

Most 55 Adult communities end up selling their golf courses following build-out. I know----TV isn't "most" retirement communities. Point is don't be surprised. Given the condition of many of the championship courses this past winter----that might not be such a bad thing. However, there could be many reasons for the poor conditions (some we aren't privilege to) but,for sure, more maintenance and better is needed. We attended the LPGA event at Lopez this winter and they did a great job of getting it ready for the Tournment----so it can be done.

[rubicon]

If the championship Golf Courses are sold then what affect does that have on the Priority P[B]rograms? Does that eliminate residents rates. It would seem that only one rate will apply. Residents will lose evn more than they are losing now. Golf is central to th[B]e reason people moved here. It appears the so-called Lifestyle is sipping away from us.. If so what's left.....an ove priced house.

[mulligan]

The Sky is Falling...........The Sky Is Falling!!!!!!

[PaPaLarry]

Hopefully, with all this rain lately, all the courses will rejuvenate!!

[nitehawk]

If the championship Golf Courses are sold then what affect does that have on the Priority P[B]rograms? Does that eliminate residents rates. It would seem that only one rate will apply. Residents will lose evn more than they are losing now. Golf is central to th[B]e reason people moved here. It appears the so-called Lifestyle is sipping away from us.. If so what's left.....an ove priced house.

be careful the posse will catch you, and make you drink more kool aid:shocked:

[Indy-Guy]

The rain sure has slowed down the complaints about the golf courses. Raining very strong at the moment.

[mickey100]

My spouse played at Cane last week and said its the best its been in a long time, and played Lopez Thursday and said it was so-so.

[Russ_Boston]

My spouse played at Cane last week and said its the best its been in a long time, and played Lopez Thursday and said it was so-so.


Cane's greens were very good today. And there was actually some rough:)

[Indy-Guy]

Cane Garden Hibiscus is having problems with wild hogs coming out of the environmental area onto the course at night and digging for grubs. They have done damage to areas under trees near the fairways.

I was told by a couple of ambassadors that they have trapped 7 so far and I saw several large traps. A couple of the trapped hogs weighed around 300 pounds. I was also told that they could not go into the environmental area and hunt or trap them.

When Hibiscus first opened they had this problem but the problem has not occurred for some time. But the hogs are back.

[mulligan]

Time for a luau??

[karostay]

More pulled pork at Sonny's
:mmmm:

[jbdlfan]

Played Hacienda Palms/Lakes yesterday and was appalled. It was the worst I've ever played it. I guess since they are working on the Oaks, they are letting the rest go also.

[USCGretired]

Played Hacienda Palms/Lakes yesterday and was appalled. It was the worst I've ever played it. I guess since they are working on the Oaks, they are letting the rest go also.

I am curious, what was wrong? I played today and other than the water from all the rain I though it was in great shape.

[jbdlfan]

I am curious, what was wrong? I played today and other than the water from all the rain I though it was in great shape.

The greens were absolutely horrible. #8 on Palms had holes in the green the size of a putter. Other greens had more dead areas than green. #1 fairway on the Palms had very little grass. Just overall very poor conditions.

[djl8412]

Well, here we are; late summer with a lot of rain making up for below average rainfall the previous 2 years. Naturally it has led to problems of very wet areas in the fairways, etc. Some courses are cart path only with others rough only for golf carts. Yesterday Evans Prairie was rough only despite most of the fairways having no signs of water problems and even partially as hard as concrete. With these factors in mind we have an added dilemma: Tierra Del Sol is still closed until the fall and Hacienda Hills is closed indefinitely. Combined with the onset of part 2 in the annual aeration schedule our choices for championship golf play is even further restricted for full-time residents. However, if you're a glass half full person, in a couple of months, the seasonal residents will be back, all the courses will be open, they will be in great shape, won't have any restrictions and the cost of play will soar. Ain't life grand?! :BigApplause:

[Bogie Shooter]

Could be worse,if your home was where there was one fantastic course........that you got a tee time,maybe, every ten days.

[Indy-Guy]

I played Evans Prairie yesterday and the smell of what they had recently spread on the course was very noticeable. I have played courses that have spread sewer sludge and I am pretty sure that that is what they have put on the course.

I asked two ambassadors what they had put down and they both said that they did not know?

The last course that I played that had just put it down was so strong that I had to throw away a pair of golf shoes. Evans Prairie had put down a light spread of it and a dryer spread than the last course I played that had used it.

So if you drive in your golf cart down to Brownwood hold your nose when you go by the golf course. But it will be green.

There is a product named Milorganite which I have used and it works very good to produce good plants and it is also sewage sludge. Link below.

Milorganite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite)

Anyone know for sure what they spread at Evans? But my money is on sewer sludge. Sounds like a horse that I want to bet on.

[spk7951]

I played Evans Prairie yesterday and the smell of what they had recently spread on the course was very noticeable. I have played courses that have spread sewer sludge and I am pretty sure that that is what they have put on the course.

I asked two ambassadors what they had put down and they both said that they did not know?

The last course that I played that had just put it down was so strong that I had to throw away a pair of golf shoes. Evans Prairie had put down a light spread of it and a dryer spread than the last course I played that had used it.

So if you drive in your golf cart down to Brownwood hold your nose when you go by the golf course. But it will be green.

There is a product named Milorganite which I have used and it works very good to produce good plants and it is also sewage sludge. Link below.

Milorganite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite)

Anyone know for sure what they spread at Evans? But my money is on sewer sludge. Sounds like a horse that I want to bet on.


I played EP last Saturday and it did smell on a couple of holes. I have encountered that odor before when they use a black colored fertilizer which I can not remember the name of. I would suspect after the rain this afternoon that it might be clear but will know better when I play there Wednesday.

[spk7951]

Was supposed to play twilight golf at Bonifay Pensacola tonight but the group all decided against it because of the rain. Good thing as both Fort Walton and Pensacola were closed because of the high volume of rain that fell this afternoon and Destin was all cart path only. It may be a couple of days or so before Bonifay drys out.

[cabo35]

It's been a wet summer in Monmouth County, NJ as well. When you can play and its not "cart path only" the fairways are lush and the greens are beautiful. However, we are not getting the generous "Villages" roll on fairway drives because of the esthetically pleasing but thick, ball stopping, fairway grass. On the plus side, it is nice to be able to get under your fairway iron shots. We also lose lots of balls because if you hit just two feet off the fairway, the short rough is so thick your ball will be eaten by the "lush", long, dense grass. We are paying what would be considered winter premium rates in The Villages. I miss my golf buddies in The Villages and look forward to our return in September. Perhaps that's a hint at what's really important. The pursuit of perfection continues.

Thanks for posting conditions on our home courses. I enjoy reading the reviews and current conditions......even the ones that leave room for improvement by the management. How's the neighborhood Bogie?

[GuyGolf]

Oh boy......have you played Bonifay???!?!?!?! I will NEVER play that course again. It was absolutely the worse course I have played since I moved to Florida 5 years ago! They should just close it, it needs a year to repair itself!

I played Bonifay (Destin to Ft Walton) yesterday 8/20, the greens have been aerated early this month and re-sanded last week. The greens are still a little bumpy but not too bad but still pretty hard. The fairways were very decent.

[nitehawk]

I understand that most of the golf courses up north are in great shape and the weather is 80s day and 50s nights. Oh how i miss that summer weather and the lush green growth with all of the oxygen produced by all the green trees. little humidity makes you want to be outside - working or playing

[deltaguy]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

Ten of us played Hacienda Hills earlier today. All ten would describe the course conditions as deplorable. No need to complain as all we ever get is lame excuses. All outside courses we've played in the past two months have conditions that put the situation we experienced today to shame. Why do so many residents tolerate such inferior course conditions?

[golf2140]

Ten of us played Hacienda Hills earlier today. All ten would describe the course conditions as deplorable. No need to complain as all we ever get is lame excuses. All outside courses we've played in the past two months have conditions that put the situation we experienced today to shame. Why do so many residents tolerate such inferior course conditions?

What were your issues?

[Bogie Shooter]

On the reservation system as of this evening. for a Monday tee time, all three nines at HH were closed.

[chuckster]

yep..but if you check course schedule on the res. system... mon. closed for tournament..hope this helps....

[mickey100]

Ten of us played Hacienda Hills earlier today. All ten would describe the course conditions as deplorable. No need to complain as all we ever get is lame excuses. All outside courses we've played in the past two months have conditions that put the situation we experienced today to shame. Why do so many residents tolerate such inferior course conditions?

I agree and think its a good idea to call the head of golf operations and voice a complaint if the conditions at a particular course are deplorable on a regular basis. If more residents did that, perhaps things would change. That said, we rely on this thread to keep track of where the good conditions are, and make our tee times accordingly. I suppose its asking too much to have all the courses in wonderful shape all at the same time. Generally it seems like maybe half are in decent condition. Thanks to this thread, knowing ahead of time which courses to avoid, our groups are generally playing on the courses that are in good shape.

[deltaguy]

What were your issues?

Deplorable is deplorable. Any attempt at enhancement would be a total waste of my time.

[deltaguy]

I agree and think its a good idea to call the head of golf operations and voice a complaint if the conditions at a particular course are deplorable on a regular basis. If more residents did that, perhaps things would change. That said, we rely on this thread to keep track of where the good conditions are, and make our tee times accordingly. I suppose its asking too much to have all the courses in wonderful shape all at the same time. Generally it seems like maybe half are in decent condition. Thanks to this thread, knowing ahead of time which courses to avoid, our groups are generally playing on the courses that are in good shape.

Reread my post. I have talked to Golf Operations on the subject of Golf Course conditions a number of times. All they do is come up with lame excuses. In a nutshell, they simply don't care as there are enough "golfers" in TV who will play on whatever crappy venue is put before them and still think they are in utopia.

[Bogie Shooter]

Reread my post. I have talked to Golf Operations on the subject of Golf Course conditions a number of times. All they do is come up with lame excuses. In a nutshell, they simply don't care as there are enough "golfers" in TV who will play on whatever crappy venue is put before them and still think they are in utopia.

I don't think that is really true.....................

[graciegirl]

Deplorable is deplorable. Any attempt at enhancement would be a total waste of my time.

Let's try this. Was the rough too long? Were the fairways too long? Had they done recent sanding or work on greens? Was there damage on greens from unrepaired ballmarks? Did the course need to be fertilized or treated with weed killer or ant killer? This is anthill season. Was there bird poop on greens? Was it impossible to find your ball in the rough?

Lack of water shouldn't have been an issue. Help us by telling us what were the deplorable issues?

[graciegirl]

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Golf Course Conditions
We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.
Ten of us played Hacienda Hills earlier today. All ten would describe the course conditions as deplorable. No need to complain as all we ever get is lame excuses. All outside courses we've played in the past two months have conditions that put the situation we experienced today to shame. Why do so many residents tolerate such inferior course conditions?

Your post above was written as a response to Cabo's original post of Jan 20, 2011 starting this thread, at least you quoted that post.

[deltaguy]

Let's try this. Was the rough too long? Were the fairways too long? Had they done recent sanding or work on greens? Was there damage on greens from unrepaired ballmarks? Did the course need to be fertilized or treated with weed killer or ant killer? This is anthill season. Was there bird poop on greens? Was it impossible to find your ball in the rough?

Lack of water shouldn't have been an issue. Help us by telling us what were the deplorable issues?

Nice try but none of the above. Deplorable doesn't imply any of obvious junk you mention. It simply means that the course was in crappy shape, not for any of the excuse type reasons you imply. A ball on the fairway should rest on grass. A ball putted on the green should not jump up and down 10 times on a four foot putt. I'm a golfer so please don't challenge me when I say deplorable. Lopez on Monday was in very good shape, just in case you don't think I'm fair. If you play in a group with 5 and 6 handicap players you might accept their opinion about deplorable conditions. If you play with 30 handicappers you probably wouldn't have a basis for knowing.

[Russ_Boston]

Nice try but none of the above. Deplorable doesn't imply any of obvious junk you mention. It simply means that the course was in crappy shape, not for any of the excuse type reasons you imply. A ball on the fairway should rest on grass. A ball putted on the green should not jump up and down 10 times on a four foot putt. I'm a golfer so please don't challenge me when I say deplorable. Lopez on Monday was in very good shape, just in case you don't think I'm fair. If you play in a group with 5 and 6 handicap players you might accept their opinion about deplorable conditions. If you play with 30 handicappers you probably wouldn't have a basis for knowing.

That's all we wanted, no need to be rude. So to make a very long story short: The fairways and greens are in bad shape. Thanks for the info, I'll play somewhere else tomorrow. End of this conversation?

[golf2140]

Nice try but none of the above. Deplorable doesn't imply any of obvious junk you mention. It simply means that the course was in crappy shape, not for any of the excuse type reasons you imply. A ball on the fairway should rest on grass. A ball putted on the green should not jump up and down 10 times on a four foot putt. I'm a golfer so please don't challenge me when I say deplorable. Lopez on Monday was in very good shape, just in case you don't think I'm fair. If you play in a group with 5 and 6 handicap players you might accept their opinion about deplorable conditions. If you play with 30 handicappers you probably wouldn't have a basis for knowing.

Excuse US !!!!!!!!!!!

[Mikeod]

Nice try but none of the above. Deplorable doesn't imply any of obvious junk you mention. It simply means that the course was in crappy shape, not for any of the excuse type reasons you imply. A ball on the fairway should rest on grass. A ball putted on the green should not jump up and down 10 times on a four foot putt. I'm a golfer so please don't challenge me when I say deplorable. Lopez on Monday was in very good shape, just in case you don't think I'm fair. If you play in a group with 5 and 6 handicap players you might accept their opinion about deplorable conditions. If you play with 30 handicappers you probably wouldn't have a basis for knowing.

Well, EXCUSE US. All we were trying to do was gain some insight into what specifically goes into a course being "deplorable". I didn't know that you had to be a single digit handicap to understand course conditions. It's just that it seems reasonable that to classify a course that way there may be some specifics that would enlighten us ignorant higher handicappers so we, too, can rant about the conditions. Sorry that doing so would be a waste of your time. Frankly, if you walk into golf administration offices with the elitist attitude you present in this thread, I would expect them to respond in kind and give you their "lame" excuses to get you out of there.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, EXCUSE US. All we were trying to do was gain some insight into what specifically goes into a course being "deplorable". I didn't know that you had to be a single digit handicap to understand course conditions. It's just that it seems reasonable that to classify a course that way there may be some specifics that would enlighten us ignorant higher handicappers so we, too, can rant about the conditions. Sorry that doing so would be a waste of your time. Frankly, if you walk into golf administration offices with the elitist attitude you present in this thread, I would expect them to respond in kind and give you their "lame" excuses to get you out of there.

:boom:
Well said!

[Bogie Shooter]

Nice try but none of the above. Deplorable doesn't imply any of obvious junk you mention. It simply means that the course was in crappy shape, not for any of the excuse type reasons you imply. A ball on the fairway should rest on grass. A ball putted on the green should not jump up and down 10 times on a four foot putt. I'm a golfer so please don't challenge me when I say deplorable. Lopez on Monday was in very good shape, just in case you don't think I'm fair. If you play in a group with 5 and 6 handicap players you might accept their opinion about deplorable conditions. If you play with 30 handicappers you probably wouldn't have a basis for knowing.


These elitist comments were really not necessary....................