Golf Course Conditions

[cabo35]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

[ajbrown]

Threads seem to come and go on the golf forum.

Here is one that should help. schotzyb's and taj44's posts line up with how I feel.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34745

[schotzyb]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

I like your idea of a Golf Courses Condition forum mainly because I rely alot on input here on TOTV on the conditions of the different golf courses both on campus and off. To me currently Havana is in the best shape of any of the courses here in the Villages excluding Palmer which I do not play in the winter even though I have a Priority Membership. I just cannot see the price difference in it and some of the other courses. Played Lopez Tuesday and felt it was also in good shape. Fairways a little sparse but not real bad. Greens and T boxes were good.

[cabo35]

I like your idea of a Golf Courses Condition forum mainly because I rely alot on input here on TOTV on the conditions of the different golf courses both on campus and off. To me currently Havana is in the best shape of any of the courses here in the Villages excluding Palmer which I do not play in the winter even though I have a Priority Membership. I just cannot see the price difference in it and some of the other courses. Played Lopez Tuesday and felt it was also in good shape. Fairways a little sparse but not real bad. Greens and T boxes were good.

Thanks for the update on Havana. Haven't been there in a while. A golfing acquaintance today told me he thought Glenview was currently in good shape.
Played World Woods about 4 weeks ago. Pine Barrens and Rolling Oaks. Best shape I've seen including some Myrtle Beach courses. Greens were world class....four weeks ago. You can get good rates there if you call them and ask for specials.

[schotzyb]

Played Mallory today and due to last nights rain it was cart path only. Greens in very good shape but a little slow from not being cut. Fairways are starting to fill in some but some particular holes are really spotty.

[ajbrown]

Played Cane yesterday (1/21) (Jac to Alla) for the first time in weeks. Very disappointed with the greens. It did rain alot Thursday night, so I am not complaining of speed, but they do look healthy to me.

[jebartle]

typical tight HARD fairways BUT always glad to be out in the sunshine.

[waynet]

I really like this thread. I hope more people comment on conditions of courses. It is very helpful and thanks. Be there Feb.1st for 2 months of golf!

[ajbrown]

typical tight HARD fairways BUT always glad to be out in the sunshine.

Amen to the sunshine part, although I could have used a little more if it yesterday afternoon. No doubt lots of golfers would love to be complaining about conditions of golf courses instead of the condition of the roads for driving :cold:

[cabo35]

Any reports on Glenview? Playing Havana on Monday. Played Palmer on Thursday. Fairways and greens in good shape. Pin placements were brutal. Pin setter must have had a bad morning.

[jebartle]

Greens perfect, Fairways tight, overseeding this year not as good, difficult to get a good lie. Limited to cart path side rough Friday 1/21...When posting conditions we should probably include date of play....

[graciegirl]

Sweetie and his group stopped at nine today.

When he came in I said "omg, are you having chest pains?'

He said they had decided it was too windy and too cold. I think the others decided that because Sweetie has never abandoned a golf course at nine holes.

[ajbrown]

Played Lopez yesterday afternoon 1/23 :thumbup:

:thumbup: == no complaints

PS. Maybe this should be in the golf forum?

[cabo35]

Played Havana this morning. Fairways in good shape. Greens were green and fast. Rough was winter brown but very playable. Fairways and rough were somewhat hard and gave up good rolls.

[schotzyb]

Got 17 holes in today at Orange Blossom before the rains came. Fairway in great shape. Nice and green and full. Some greens better than others but all very playable

[cabo35]

Contacted Orange Blossom today(Wednesday) to find out conditions. No restrictions except for two holes where you had to exit at 150. Tomorrow(Thursday) expected to be no restrictions.

[rubicon]

Played Cane Garden this AM (1/26) Greens fast despite the heavy rain last night. Favor Palmer's although I agree the additional cost irritates a fair amount of villagers but you have to agree Palmer's is usually in good shape.

[cabo35]

Played Orange Blossom this morning. (Thursday). Schotzyb is exactly right. Fairways were very good. Green and thick. Most greens were in good shape. A few were not. All were playable. Rough is tough. Keep it in the green. No restrictions in spite of recent rain. Rubicon...I agree with you on Palmer. I was definately impressed with the condition of the Orange Blossom fairways. Hadn't played there in a couple of years until I read conditions posted here. Glad I did.

[schotzyb]

Glad that my assessment of Orange Blossom was accurate and to your lacking. Playing Hacienda Hills tomorrow but not by choice. We have a group of 16 players that play a different course every Friday. Just so happens that Hacienda was up next on the list. No big deal: where else can you play Golf in January in shorts?

[schotzyb]

Our group played Hacienda today and even though the fairways have not been overseeded and were brown, it was a very enjoyable round. Greens were in very good condition and the ambassadors were passing out questionaire forms to allow you to voice your opinion of the course.

[cabo35]

Played Tierra Del Sol yesterday (Sunday) Fairways only fair. Greens - some OK many thin and bare in spots. Have seen it in better shape than its in right now.

Played Palmer this morning (Monday) Good condition all the way around - Cherry to Laurel. Greens were fast.

[ajbrown]

Palmer's greens are so good right now that even the practice green by the first tee at Riley Grove (The Himalayas) is good enough to practice on and alot of fun!

[graciegirl]

Well, the hard ground with no grass cushioning helps my miserable game on the short courses. My poor tee shots keep moving along. I can't get any loft this week, but my putting is better than it has been for awhile.

Golf is not a matter of life and death, it is much more important than that.

(I have a sign on my wall that says that anyway)

[schotzyb]

Played Cane Garden today. Fairways really, really spotty. Not good at all. Both the rough and fairways are hard as concrete. Greens were overall in pretty decent shape, but the course still goes to the bottom of my list for ones to play.

[cabo35]

Played Jacaranda to Alamanda Tuesday, 2/2. Schotzyb once again has it right. Fairway and rough hard, some thin green grass. Greens were just ok. I like Cane Garden but not now. Course conditions around the Villages are constantly changing. I keep hearing positive reports about Glenview. I hope to keep checking in to hear what posters have to say about what courses are and who is declining. Thanks for the input.

[Bogie Shooter]

Article in todays Daily Sun 2/3 regarding course conditions, on Sports page.

[cabo35]

I have heard unconfirmed reports that certain courses get a larger watering allotments. Allegedly, Palmer, Lopez and Glenview top the list. Further, I heard that Havana has now joined that elite list. Personally, I thought the fairways and most of the greens at OB were as good as any.

Any info or opinions floating around out there?

[schotzyb]

Don't know how true it is but in talking with an Ambassador at Orange Blossom, he stated that their watering restrictions were different because they are in Lake County instead of Sumter.Don't really see how that could be since they are so close together but that is what we were told during our round about a week ago.

[FLBuckeyeIII]

Don't know how true it is but in talking with an Ambassador at Orange Blossom, he stated that their watering restrictions were different because they are in Lake County instead of Sumter.Don't really see how that could be since they are so close together but that is what we were told during our round about a week ago.

The Ambassador is right, courses like Palmer have more water and money available than courses like Cane Garden and Mallory. TRUST ME, every superintendent wants the best looking course since his job is dependent on course ratings by the higher ups. But water restrictions and budgets hold these courses back and there is only so much they can do. Mallory and Cane actually have to share water from each other. One course will get more water on certain days while the other will be short and vice versa.

[Mikeod]

Don't know how true it is but in talking with an Ambassador at Orange Blossom, he stated that their watering restrictions were different because they are in Lake County instead of Sumter.Don't really see how that could be since they are so close together but that is what we were told during our round about a week ago.
It also depends on where the water comes from. The southern courses have interconnections to several retention ponds and can share water. Others, like Hacienda, have limited resources. I believe Hacienda can draw only from the retention pond near #9 on the Palms course and from the aquifer, which is limited.

Palmer also gets less play than the other courses, primarily because of the greens fee difference. Less play usually begets better conditions, especially from cart traffic.

[Taj44]

Schotzyb and Cabo35 - I agree with you on Cane. Played there a couple days ago, and the fairways were really spotty where the overseed hadn't fully come in. In addition the greens had been top-dressed and were painfully slow. Not impressed with that course. Played Havana a week or so ago and found it to be in beautiful shape. I played Lopez a couple days ago, and the course was in pretty nice shape as well. The greens were a tad on the slow side, but overall in nice condition. My one complaint about Lopez is that there is the occasional bunker that has a lot of little pebbles in it. Has anyone else encountered that? If you happen to catch one of the pebbles, it can throw your sand shot off. I know, I shouldn't be in there anyways, lol! Played OB last Sunday, and it was in nice shape. The fairways have a lot of grass and don't seem as hard and rolling as some of the other courses. AJBrown, I haven't played Palmer lately, but a friend did, and he agrees with your assessment. He called their greens "pristine".

[schotzyb]

Playing Lopez tomorrow, (Friday) morning. Glad to read that it is in pretty good shape. As for pet peeves on some conditions on golf courses that really irritate me are greens with standing water in them 3 days after the last rainfall. Surely this could be attended to in this amount of time.

[ajbrown]

Schotzyb and Cabo35 - I agree with you on Cane. Played there a couple days ago, and the fairways were really spotty where the overseed hadn't fully come in. In addition the greens had been top-dressed and were painfully slow. Not impressed with that course. .

Hearing the greens have been top dressed is a good sign to me. The greens looked stressed last time I was there on 1/21. They rolled OK, but they looked like there was an underlying issue. The fact that an action has been taken is a positive sign IMO. Time will tell.

Back to Palmer tomorrow :a040:

Tierra on Sunday, hoping it is better than I read as I love to play there especially on Sunday with no wave.

[Taj44]

AJ, I spoke with the head of golf operations last year when Orange Blossom was so bad, and I really did get a sense that he was committed to getting and keeping the courses in good shape. My conversation with him was very reassuring. I know a lot of people complained to him about OB, and I think that helped as well to keep them on their toes. With the tremendous amount of people playing this time of year, I'm sure they need to do some periodic maintenance, and perhaps with rain in the forecast they decided to topdress.

Anyways, enjoy Palmer!

[schotzyb]

Played Lopez (Ashley, and Torri) and am happy to say that the course is very good condition, especially the greens, which were the best I have seen in The Villages or outside. No blotches on them and they rolled beautifully. Thumbs up to Lopez groundskeeper and crew.

[waynet]

Played Nancy Lopez today....really good shape

[schotzyb]

Played Orange Blossom today;not as good of shape as about a week ago.Greens were extremely slow from not being cut due to wet conditions Was just starting to cut the fairways at 12 noon. Water being pumped from other courses to areas off the fairways which meant if you were out of the fairway, you were in water. Should be fine once the greens are cut and the excess water is gone.

[waynet]

played Havana yesterday...in pretty good shape...greens got bumpy late in the day.Overall course is worth playing.

[cabo35]

Played Hacienda today. The rain seems to have helped course conditions a little although fairways had soft spots. Should dry out shortly. Greener than I remember from last time I played there. Greens were generally good but a little slow. Played the Palms to Oaks. All in all, a pleasant round. Should be getting better each day.

[schotzyb]

Playing Cane Garden Friday. Hope the rain has helped soften the fairways and rough there.

[Taj44]

Played Hacienda today. The rain seems to have helped course conditions a little although fairways had soft spots. Should dry out shortly. Greener than I remember from last time I played there. Greens were generally good but a little slow. Played the Palms to Oaks. All in all, a pleasant round. Should be getting better each day.

Good to hear. I've been avoiding Hacienda for the last couple of months, but its always been one of my favorites.:smiley:

[waynet]

played Cane yesterday, fairways still spotty,greens a little slow. Still worth playing.

[jebartle]

Greens perfect, as good as Palmer...Fairways, starting to transition, another month should be great....And the "ole boy" had another eagle...Sure that made conditions wonderful...giggle...BTW did you see in Village Sun, "ole boy" and his "double-eagle" article?

[ajbrown]

Greens perfect, as good as Palmer...Fairways, starting to transition, another month should be great....And the "ole boy" had another eagle...Sure that made conditions wonderful...giggle...BTW did you see in Village Sun, "ole boy" and his "double-eagle" article?

I missed the article, which day? I have played golf alot of years and never carded the elusive albatross. Congrats..... :clap2::clap2::highfive:

I wonder, if a hole in one cost you at the bar, why is a double eagle free? :beer3:

[schotzyb]

Played Cane Garden today (Hibiscus & Jacaranda). Not much improvement to the fairways from the rain other than they have softened up some. Still extremely spotty with various types of grass. Greens on the other hand were absolutely great.

[jebartle]

In Sunday paper....He is prouder than a peacock!:a040::a040:






I missed the article, which day? I have played golf alot of years and never carded the elusive albatross. Congrats..... :clap2::clap2::highfive:

I wonder, if a hole in one cost you at the bar, why is a double eagle free? :beer3:

[jebartle]

tried to move article, but computer illiterate...Title of article is Village Factoid.....Thanks or asking thou...



I missed the article, which day? I have played golf alot of years and never carded the elusive albatross. Congrats..... :clap2::clap2::highfive:

I wonder, if a hole in one cost you at the bar, why is a double eagle free? :beer3:

[waynet]

played Havana yesterday. Course in good shape,greens were nice and quick.

[cabo35]

Played Glenview, Fox Run/Stirrup Cup this morning. After a brief frost delay we started around 8:30. Started us on 4tth hole so we only got to do 15.

Course was in good shape. Fairways were green and softened up from the rain. Greens were in good shape. Looks like great golf weather for the next week.

[katezbox]

played Havana yesterday. Course in good shape,greens were nice and quick.

Havana had better success with the fall overseeding than some other courses - at least according to their Ambassadors.

We are also prejudiced as we live near #5...

[Mikeod]

Havana had better success with the fall overseeding than some other courses - at least according to their Ambassadors.

We are also prejudiced as we live near #5...

Yes. Unfortunately, the timing of the overseed had a lot to do with the result. Rain was so sporadic during the fall that some courses were overseeded and go some rain soon after to help germination, while others go little or no rain, so germination was spotty. Hopefully next year we will have a more normal fall and the overseed will take better on all the courses.

[schotzyb]

Played Hacienda Hills today and have to say there is no improvement in the fairway conditions even though there are twigs of green grass. Fairways extremely hard and fast. Greens were not that great either,also very hard.

[ajbrown]

/* This should be in the golf forum?? */

I played Tierra today and was pretty happy with the conditions. A few weeks ago it looked pretty bleak, but IMO was very playable today. The greens had filled in nicely, now if they would just lower the mowers :)

What a beautiful morning to be playing golf :D

[katezbox]

/* This should be in the golf forum?? */

I played Tierra today and was pretty happy with the conditions. A few weeks ago it looked pretty bleak, but IMO was very playable today. The greens had filled in nicely, now if they would just lower the mowers :)

What a beautiful morning to be playing golf :D

We were back again as well. (Funny how that tee time system works that way sometimes). Play was a bit slower - and it looked as if the greens had been cut a bit. Just a few where bald, bumpy spots made for putting challenges.

Of course, maybe I just thought it was better as I was 4 strokes lower today - despite having to wait at every hole but one...

And yes - it was a spectacular day to play golf....LML

[schotzyb]

Played Orange Blossom today and have to say that it is right up there with Glenview for being in really good condition. Fairways extremely plush and only recall one green with a bad spot and that was #11 and it has been tended to. It appears as there is no shortage of water there as fairways and rough alike were very soft from being watered heavily.

[ncr2482]

I played Lopez today. The course is in beautiful shape...fairways and greens are GREEN.

[Taj44]

They did do a great job with Orange Blossom this year. I hear it is a different maintenance company than they had last year. The fairways are really nice and green with a good cushion to hit off of, and I've always liked their greens.

[waynet]

played Glenview today. Course in very good shape,well worth playing.

[cabo35]

Played Havana, Kilimanjaro-Kenya, yesterday - fairways good - not quite as good as Palmer - Greens were in good shape. Anybody play Cane lately?

[schotzyb]

Cabo,
Played Cane last week; avoid it if at all possible. It and Hacienda Hills are the worse of the lot. Fairways, rough and greens all hard as concrete. Orange Blossom, Nancy Lopez and Glenview all are really great right now.

[waynet]

played Palmer today....best I've ever seen. Entire course is perfect.

[schotzyb]

Our Friday group played Havana today and enjoyed it very much. Fairways are nice and green and the greens were exceptionally soft and had a nice speed to them.Course is in very good condition.

[rubicon]

I have made a reservation to play in TV on Wednesday. However a number of the people I play with have been making tee times for courses outside TV that offer very attractive specials. So far I have been pleased with the fairways, greens ,fees which include breakfast/and/or lunch.

[schotzyb]

Our group played Nancy Lopez(Ashley Meadows & Torri Pines) Friday. In absolute gorgeous conditions. Greens, T boxes and Fairways were all nice and plush and green. Thumbs up to the crew there.

[waynet]

played Mallory yesterday.....just O.K. fairways very spotty,greens fair.....spend the extra and play Palmer,it's perfect.

[graciegirl]

There is a little cushion of grass even on the executive courses. Spring is here.

[ajbrown]

There is a little cushion of grass even on the executive courses. Spring is here.

Played Tarpon Boil yesterday afternoon and with the exception of the 9th, I was pleasantly surprised with the condition of the greens. It is not Lopez or Palmer, but better than other execs I have played lately.

OB today....... well, if it is not a "rain check" day

PS. I have not commented much on conditions as I have been playing the same courses as others, Palmer, Lopez, OB, Glenview and Havana and I agree with others the conditions are very good and better conditioned than I remember in years past, but that may just be my memory fading.....

[memason]

Played Lopez on Saturday... Fairways, tee boxes and greens were in fantastic shape.

[cabo35]

Played Tierra Del Sol today (Sunday) Most fairways and greens in fair shape. Some were not. Not as good as Palmer, Havana, Lopez but playable.

[Bosoxfan]

Played Havana (Hemmingway & Kilimanjaro) wednesday-excellent shape
Played Glenview(Stirrup & Talley Hoe) thursday-excellent shape
Played Palmer(Laurel Valley & Riley Grove) Friday-Outstanding!!
Played Orange Blossom Saturday morning-great shape
Played Hacienda Hills ( Lakes & Oaks) Saturday afternoon-horrible fairways
Played Lopez(Ashley Meadows & Torrey Pines) Today-Outstanding!!

I usually don't get to play the championship courses but my brother was here this week so I played all the above in 5 days.My ratings would be:

#1 Palmer
#2 -Lopez
#3-Glenview
#4-Havana
#5-Orange Blossom
and the only one I won't go back to unless the fairways improve is Hacienda Hills..Too bad to because it is a really nice layout!

[Taj44]

I think we're all on the same page as far as our opinion of conditions. Lopez was in just fantastic condition the other day, as was Glenview. I'll be playing Havana this week and am looking forward to it. Played Tierra last week, and it was okay, but not great. Hopefully Hacienda will improve with Spring arriving and the grass coming back in. Orange Blossom is so much better than it was last year - it was really nice to be able to put that course on our request list again.

[cabo35]

Ditto Taj - played Lopez this morning (Monday) starting on Torri Pines and the course was in great shape. Greens were good even though the pinsetter was on occasion...laughably sadistic.

[ncr2482]

I played Hacienda Hills today(Palms to Lakes).The greens were in excellent shape. The Palms fairways are in better shape than the Lakes. The course is in "okay" shape, but much better than I expected. (I wasn't expecting much).

[Taj44]

I played Hacienda Hills today(Palms to Lakes).The greens were in excellent shape. The Palms fairways are in better shape than the Lakes. The course is in "okay" shape, but much better than I expected. (I wasn't expecting much).

Thanks for the update..

[schotzyb]

Played Tierra Del Sol today and found it to be in fairly good condition. Not as good as Lopez , Glenview or Orange Blossom but very playable . Greens were extremely slow though.

[Taj44]

Played Tierra Del Sol today and found it to be in fairly good condition. Not as good as Lopez , Glenview or Orange Blossom but very playable . Greens were extremely slow though.

Boo, I hate slow greens. I think it throws my putting stroke off when you have to "ram" the ball to the hole.

[Taj44]

... Greens were good even though the pinsetter was on occasion...laughably sadistic.

Personally, I think they (the pinsetters) all are genetically programmed to inflict a certain amount of pain and suffering on unsuspecting golfers like ourselves!:loco:

[schotzyb]

Well, this good steady rain should improve our golf course conditions even more, especially Hacienda that suffered the most due to not overseeding the fairways.

[waynet]

played Havanna yesterday,still in really good shape. This rain should help all the golf courses.

[schotzyb]

Played Glenview yesterday with our weekly group and all were still very pleased with the courses conditions. Nice and green and the greens had a good speed to them. I do believe that sadistic pinsetter has changed courses or is making his round to all courses. Some placements were extremely tough to get at.

[hedoman]

Glenview was in great shape last week. Great pace of play as we never waited. Just over 4 hours... Greens were medium speed

[ajbrown]

I cannot say this enough. I played Palmer Friday and the greens were the best I have seen in TV in the years I have been here. Fast and smooth.

Off to Glenview this AM, if the sun ever comes up that is :)

[memason]

Played Orange Blossom Hills on Friday. Front nine was very good; greens were smooth and medium speed. Back nine is still a little rough...fairways are not too bad, but greens are not as good as the front nine. Overall, a good playing experience...

[schotzyb]

Played Tierra Del Sol today and found it to be very playable. Fairways and T boxes good . A couple greens had diseased spots but not really bad. Very playable.

[Taj44]

Played Havana the other day. Very slow pace of play - front nine okay, then almost 3 hour back nine. Fairways didn't have much of a cushion of grass, very hard and dry. Greens were nice. I thought Glenview was in much better condition last week, although their greens were painfully slow.

[waynet]

Why is Havana so slow?

[gage405]

Havana is/was slow because between 1:32 p.m. and 2:11, potentially 4 groups of players playing only nine-holes are allowed out.
On Sunday, I was in the first group at 11:56 on Hemingway. We played a very nice round for the first nine. No hold-ups and we finished right on time.
We came to Kilimanjaro and by the time we got to the second hole, there
was a back-up.
From the second tee we could see 4 foursomes between the second fairway and the third green...or almost getting to the third green, lol.
We waited on every shot the entire remaining 8 holes on the second nine.

It was annoying. It feels like the people who go out in the afternoon wave for 18 holes are not being treated fairly. Why should we have to come up
against a wall of usually slow players who are also usually inexperienced?

I know it is driven by the desire for more revenue but it is like a slap in the
face to those of us who have paid the 18-hole fee and believe we should
be able to play an 18-hole round with a decent pace of play.

I also do not understand why novice players want to pay to play on the 18-hole courses when they could have just as much fun and just as much of a challenge for free on the executive courses.

It seems like there could be a different solution. Someone suggested one nine-hole course be allocated to those who want to play 9 holes and let the
other two courses be dedicated to the 18 hole group.

I think we should mention this problem in the annual survey.

[golf2140]

Havana is/was slow because between 1:32 p.m. and 2:11, potentially 4 groups of players playing only nine-holes are allowed out.
On Sunday, I was in the first group at 11:56 on Hemingway. We played a very nice round for the first nine. No hold-ups and we finished right on time.
We came to Kilimanjaro and by the time we got to the second hole, there
was a back-up.
From the second tee we could see 4 foursomes between the second fairway and the third green...or almost getting to the third green, lol.
We waited on every shot the entire remaining 8 holes on the second nine.

It was annoying. It feels like the people who go out in the afternoon wave for 18 holes are not being treated fairly. Why should we have to come up
against a wall of usually slow players who are also usually inexperienced?

I know it is driven by the desire for more revenue but it is like a slap in the
face to those of us who have paid the 18-hole fee and believe we should
be able to play an 18-hole round with a decent pace of play.

I also do not understand why novice players want to pay to play on the 18-hole courses when they could have just as much fun and just as much of a challenge for free on the executive courses.

It seems like there could be a different solution. Someone suggested one nine-hole course be allocated to those who want to play 9 holes and let the
other two courses be dedicated to the 18 hole group.

I think we should mention this problem in the annual survey.

We played Tierra today. The front nine we played in 1:30 1:40. We made the turn, hit a wall. Back nine 230-245. But the weather was great, were retired and the wife was shopping (without me)

[schotzyb]

The same thing happened to our foursome today at Tierra.We teed off at 11:56
and never had to wait for a single shot on the front nine Played it in 1.5 hours. Took 3 hours to play the back nine. Waited on every single shot. Wanna know which nine I scored better on?

[cabo35]

Went to Tavistock on Tuesday. Beautiful course. Walked the fairways and some greens. I have to say that Palmer/Lopez fairways are very close in quality to Isleworth where Tiger, Els and the top pros played Monday. Difference one: their caddies replaced their divots like master groundskeepers. I took a hard look in comparing course conditions by playing the next day at Palmer. Palmer greens were excellent, Isleworth....flawless. I took special note of the rough short grass areas at Isleworth and frankly didn't see a big difference from any Villages courses. Same type of hard, spotty, burned out surface.

I guess the 20 million dollar homes set back from the fairways might impress some golfers, the course itself and playability...very nice...but not a quantum improvement over premium Villages courses. The park like ambiance and landscaping are also impressive.

Remember, I'm the same guy that says I haven't found any Florida course that compares with the thick, lush green courses of the northeast in the late spring through autumn. Your irons slide so nicely under the ball off those dense, plush fairways....assuming of course that you hit the fairways with some frequency. Finding your ball in the long rough can be a nuisance not encountered on the Serengeti plains of Havana CC. Of course down here we don't deal with frozen water hazards, orange golf balls in the snow and 8 foot snow drifts in the bunkers.

Just my opinion.

[waynet]

Played Mallory today... much better than 2 weeks ago. Greens were really good.

[Taj44]

Havana is/was slow because between 1:32 p.m. and 2:11, potentially 4 groups of players playing only nine-holes are allowed out.
On Sunday, I was in the first group at 11:56 on Hemingway. We played a very nice round for the first nine. No hold-ups and we finished right on time.
We came to Kilimanjaro and by the time we got to the second hole, there
was a back-up.
From the second tee we could see 4 foursomes between the second fairway and the third green...or almost getting to the third green, lol.
We waited on every shot the entire remaining 8 holes on the second nine.

It was annoying. It feels like the people who go out in the afternoon wave for 18 holes are not being treated fairly. Why should we have to come up
against a wall of usually slow players who are also usually inexperienced?

I know it is driven by the desire for more revenue but it is like a slap in the
face to those of us who have paid the 18-hole fee and believe we should
be able to play an 18-hole round with a decent pace of play.

I also do not understand why novice players want to pay to play on the 18-hole courses when they could have just as much fun and just as much of a challenge for free on the executive courses.

It seems like there could be a different solution. Someone suggested one nine-hole course be allocated to those who want to play 9 holes and let the
other two courses be dedicated to the 18 hole group.

I think we should mention this problem in the annual survey.

Gage, I agree with you 100%. They should not be slipping in the 9-holers between the 2 waves - it obviously will slow things up, which it has done. I can't remember the last time I played in the afternoon when the second nine wasn't unreasonably slow. If others of you have noticed that, I think it would help, as Gage suggested, if we made that comment on the annual survey. I know enough people complained last year about the conditions at Orange Blossom, and "the powers that be" did listen, because OB was in great shape this year. A reasonable pace of play is a priority for many of us - let's let them know that.

[chuckster]

Am not sure what could be done. The pm wave as I understand it runs from 11:56 - 1:56. So how are you going to deny those with 1:32, 1:40, 1:48, 1:56 t-times the chance to play if only for 9 holes (allowed between 1:30 - 2:00) and I agree that some are new or slower than more experienced players. They could opt for and often do play 18 and some are not slow or new players this time of year. The issue as I see it and has happened to me is that play for 9 is allowed about 2 hours. When we play the front 9 in say 1:45 with an 11:56 t-time we will be turning to the back 9 about 1:45 pm. We then have to wait for the rest of the pm wave (since it goes to 1:56). Courses in their defense are quite busy compared to summer time when there has been little or no wait at the turns. Courses with straight t-times don't have this problem, unless you are behind a slower group for 18 holes. Imho that's what I have experienced and discovered from looking into our t-time system.

One way around the issue is to play in the am wave where there is no 9 hole play to meet at the turn:beer3:

[ncr2482]

I played Cane Garden yesterday(Jacaranda to Allamanda). We started at 9:28 (the last tee time of the morning wave) Althought we waited on every shot we played the front in 2 hours and 8 minutes (right on pace). However, the back nine was slow. The ambassador stated one group was behind pace and he was doing his best to move them along. The course was in pretty good shape. Overall no complaints about the day.

[cabo35]

Played Havana, Kenya to Hemingway today. Fairways and greens were ok but not as good as a few weeks ago. Pace was about 4 1/2 hours.

[ajbrown]

Sunday 3/20, 9:28, pace 4:14.

With all of the good weather Tierra has filled in nicely, very playable. The greens putt pretty true but are still too slow IMO. Not sure that will change anytime soon....

On a personal note, I finally shot less than the course rating NET :D. It has been a loooong time since I have carried my handicap at Tierra.

[schotzyb]

Got a feeling if we don't get a good heavy rain soon,all the courses are going to worsen in a hurry.

[waynet]

Palmer perfect today.

[schotzyb]

Played Tierra Tuesday. Other than a couple spots all the greens were in good shape. We started on the back nine and it was wait on every shot but when we made the turn to the front nine, things really sped up and we played those 9 holes in less than 2 hours.

[Taj44]

I'm jealous. I've played Havana a couple of times this week, and its been slow, slow, slow!

[rubicon]

Let's face it the courses in TV get alot of play and of course dry conditions don't help. My group has decided to play off site and discovered there are some wonderful courses out there. Played Ocala Country Club Wow! Now those are houses. Reasonable rates at all the courses we have played plus amenities. Ran into a guy from TV who liked it so much he joined Black Bear. Challenging course.

Course play is steady off site

[ajbrown]

Palmer perfect today.

:thumbup:

Played there this AM. Great year for Palmer Legends. Really in great shape and greens have some speed! IMO worth the uptick in cost right now.

[schotzyb]

Played Glenview this morning. Still in very good condition. Greens got some speed to them after the morning moisture dried.

[waynet]

also played Glenview today and it was in very good shape

[nitehawk]

played cane today(Jacranda to Alamanda) i have seen municipal courses in much better condition for half the price - fairway a 3 - greens a 5

[cabo35]

Let's face it the courses in TV get alot of play and of course dry conditions don't help. My group has decided to play off site and discovered there are some wonderful courses out there. Played Ocala Country Club Wow! Now those are houses. Reasonable rates at all the courses we have played plus amenities. Ran into a guy from TV who liked it so much he joined Black Bear. Challenging course.

Course play is steady off site

What are some of the better public access Ocala area courses you've played? We enjoyed World Woods down in Brooksville but it is a long ride. Played Orange County Golf and thought it was good but not quite as good as it is billed. World Woods was much better.

[schotzyb]

I would think with this amount of rain, we should see a vast improvement in all the golf courses. Cart Path only for a day or two most likely.

[ajbrown]

I would think with this amount of rain, we should see a vast improvement in all the golf courses. Cart Path only for a day or two most likely.

Looks like your post #98 did the trick!!

[schotzyb]

Glad to see it. Maybe Cane and Hacienda will improve now.

[cabo35]

Played Palmer, Riley/Cherry this morning......great condition.......fast true greens.....carpath only in am........rough only in afternoon. Greenskeeper said they just double cut greens and that is why they are so fast.

[cabo35]

Played Tierra Del Sol this morning (Monday). Course generally in good shape. Rain definately helped. Greens were slow. 2-3 greens had various degrees of burn out but playable. The rest ok. Front nine in just two hours....moved well. Back nine a llittle slower but not bad.

[ajbrown]

Played Palmer Cherry/Laurel again Saturday (4/2) with a friend from MA. Even after all that rain, it was still fast and smooth.

Played Mallory (Virginia/Amelia) yesterday (4/3) for first time in long time. The greens are better than I expected, no Palmer, but no complaints. The only complaint I had were some of the fairways on Amelia are not great. They are not bare like Cane was.... the best I can describe it is they are clumpy, little sprouts of grass, which IMO is worse then no grass as sometimes you cannot get to the back of the ball if it settles between two clumps.

Overall, I found Mallory very playable, and if you struggling with the driver like me you hardly notice the fairways on Amelia because you are never in them http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry020.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[cabo35]

Palmer still very good. Greens lightly fertilized but still fast.

[cabo35]

Played Havana Kil/Ken yesterday. Course and greens in good shape. Enjoyable round. Pace of play was very good all the way around.

[ajbrown]

Played Havana Kil/Ken yesterday. Course and greens in good shape. Enjoyable round. Pace of play was very good all the way around.

Had a 12:04 tee time at Havana (Kenya/Hemingway) yesterday (4/15). Arrived and starter said we was running a bit late, 12:04 is the second tee time. Must have been a doozie of a morning wave!!!! Round was 4:35 (recommended pace, which IMO is generous, is 4:16).

I agree with Cabo on conditions with one comment. I thought the greens were quite slow. They looked nice enough, but were sticky, maybe growth in afternoon wave, unlikely, but?? Not asking for Augusta or even Palmer, but just a bit more speed. With that said it is not a reason to NOT play there, but I think the $8 uptick is worth it for Palmer for the rest of the month.

PS. Summer rates are around the corner :clap2:

[spk7951]

PS. Summer rates are around the corner :clap2:


It is interesting to see that some of the "off property" courses in the area have already started reducing their rates.

[schotzyb]

We are playing Eagle Ridge this afternoon. Will see what their rates are. Played there a few weeks ago and it was~$32

[schotzyb]

Eagle Ridge greens have worsened since our last visit. Some, not all have been sanded and some some pretty bad diseased spots but all in all still a good deal for $30 + tax.

[schotzyb]

Played Havana yesterday and even though it is still in good shape , it appears as though they have slacked off on watering the fairways. Starting to see some brown spots such as you see more evident on Mallory's fairways. All the retention ponds look full so I really don't understand the lack of watering.

[ncr2482]

I played Cane (Jacaranda to Allamanda) this morning. The nicest thing I can say about the course...we played on pace. The course needs water and some grass. I hope it rains soon.

[Taj44]

Ncr, you are too nice. I would have said a few bad words about Cane. Played Palmer today - wonderful shape.

[schotzyb]

Played Havana again today. Still think more watering of the fairways is needed.

[ncr2482]

Ncr, you are too nice. I would have said a few bad words about Cane. Played Palmer today - wonderful shape.

Thanks, I was attempting to be nice about it. I didn't want to hear others posting I was complaining...but they should pay us to play it. With the exception of Palmer all of the championship courses south of 466 are in sad shape. My husband refuses to play "on hard pan alley".(Cane, Mallory and Havana). I normally play Glenview, Lopez , OBH and Tierra Del Sol. I am not responsible for my Friday group tee times...so I go with the flow. THE COURSES NEED RAIN.

[ajbrown]

I played OB yesterday. I will save the pace of play comments for another thread :mad:.

The course is still fine. The course must have water as it if very wet. IMO too wet in places, some of the greens are showing dead spots which to me look like mold... but I am NO greens keeper....

GV tomorrow, hope it is still in decent shape.

[katezbox]

Played Glenview last weekend - many of the greens were sad! Lopez yesterday was in great shape. Playing there again today.

Haven't played Havana lately, but look at it every day and it looks good.

[ncr2482]

I played Havana this morning. The fairways on Kenya were in good shape(better than I thought), Hemingway so so.

[MrMark]

We played Hacienda Hills yesterday. Fairways ok but winter brown showed little green. Very dry in spite of rainfall. Lots of roll. The greens were green and ok. Played Palmer a few days ago. Fairways were green and good......not spectacular. Greens fast and in good condition. Any reports on Glenview, Lopez or Cane Garden?

Is there any interest in suggesting a Golf Course Conditions Forum to the TOTV administration? Like restaurants, course conditions fluctuate and I would find it useful to frequently pull up a forum that gives current playing conditions as noted by golfers who post regularly. Hopefully, there would be enough interest to keep the forum fresh and up to date. :shrug:

Your thoughts.

As a general rule, championship Courses in TV are in about the same condition as numerous Public Courses in the North. It is shameless to call them "Championship Courses"! Cane is currently disgraceful. Played TDS today and would have to call it pretty ugly. HH was disgraceful all Winter, and on and on and on! Lopez and Glenview seem to be the only courses where grass regularly grows! Haven't played Palmer in ages as no one seems to know why it should be worth $10 more than the other courses.

[ajbrown]

Played Glenview last weekend - many of the greens were sad! Lopez yesterday was in great shape. Playing there again today.

Haven't played Havana lately, but look at it every day and it looks good.

I agree on Glenview. I would keep Glenview (at least Fox Run) off of the request list at the moment. Stirpu Cup was playable. When I went in to pay I saw Mark (one of the managers). He asked where I was playing (Fox Run to Stirrup), you could tell by his face things were not so good.

The greens on Fox Run are really in tough shape... they are working on them and they may recover, but not so good at the moment.

[katezbox]

Yesterday Ashley to Torri was in great shape. Today we played Torri to Erinn... On the second or third green there was a lot of debris that turned out to be the remains of what we think were newly hatched tiny frogs. Also lots of them still alive. Made putting impossible and gave me a huge case of the creeps.

Saw them again on a couple of fairways. Made me wish I had into a bunker....ughhhhh

[hedoman]

Yesterday Ashley to Torri was in great shape. Today we played Torri to Erinn... On the second or third green there was a lot of debris that turned out to be the remains of what we think were newly hatched tiny frogs. Also lots of them still alive. Made putting impossible and gave me a huge case of the creeps.

Saw them again on a couple of fairways. Made me wish I had into a bunker....ughhhhh


Don't frogs come from tadpoles? What kind of creature are we talking about here? Lovebugs, no seeums and frogs OH MY!

[ajbrown]

Don't frogs come from tadpoles? What kind of creature are we talking about here? Lovebugs, no seeums and frogs OH MY!

I saw these frogs or toads or whatever they are on hole three on Fox Run yesterday. I did not have a camera. They are about the size of a dime, maybe a bit smaller. When I looked at the white tees where my wife was playing from, the tee looked like it had been aerated and the plugs left in the ground, there was a little brown spot every 4 inches covering the whole tee. As she approached all of the "plugs" started hopping :shocked:

I have never seen anything like it.

[katezbox]

I saw these frogs or toads or whatever they are on hole three on Fox Run yesterday. I did not have a camera. They are about the size of a dime, maybe a bit smaller. When I looked at the white tees where my wife was playing from, the tee looked like it had been aerated and the plugs left in the ground, there was a little brown spot every 4 inches covering the whole tee. As she approached all of the "plugs" started hopping :shocked:

I have never seen anything like it.

Mrs AJB must be a very good golfer!

At first we thought they were a type of cricket - until we looked more closely. It was the stuff of horror movies!

k

[jgbama]

Mrs AJB must be a very good golfer!

At first we thought they were a type of cricket - until we looked more closely. It was the stuff of horror movies!

k

Maybe someone with a cell phone could take a photo to share. Haven't seen anything like what has been described on our courses here.

[katezbox]

Maybe someone with a cell phone could take a photo to share. Haven't seen anything like what has been described on our courses here.

http://www.wec.ufl.edu/extension/wildlife_info/frogstoads/acris_gryllus_dorsalis.php

I think these guys are the culprits

[ncr2482]

Today's report from the field. My group played Mallory this morning (Amelia - Caroline). Perhaps my expectations are too high...the course is in need of grass on the fairways and a lot of rain.

[cunch]

Palmer is the only course in decent condition. I have been playing outside for less money an more grass! They really need to address the poor conditions. I have been here one year. I am curious if this is normal?

[l2ridehd]

It will change and they will address the problem when no one shows up to play. As long as they can fill the tee times, why make investments? Everyone should take a week and either go off campus or don't play. Then the problem will get fixed.

[schotzyb]

Played Tierra Del Sol today. Not in very good shape at all. Lots of diseased spots on the greens. I t is becoming more and more evident that unless something changes all the courses other than Palmer will be in the same sad shape as Cane Garden and we all know how bad it is.

[Taj44]

Sorry to hear that. I really like the layout at Tierra. Hacienda has been crappy all winter, Mallory and Cane are like playing on bedrock with not enough grass. That leaves few courses to choose from. Of course they always blame it on environmental conditions - "not enough rain", etc., but they always manage to find enough water for Palmer. I agree, if conditions are better outside for the same $$, its worth the trip. The only way it will get fixed is if enough people complain and/or they lose money because people are going outside to play.

[Taj44]

http://www.wec.ufl.edu/extension/wildlife_info/frogstoads/acris_gryllus_dorsalis.php

I think these guys are the culprits

Interesting!...thanks for posting.:ho:

[schotzyb]

Sorry to hear that. I really like the layout at Tierra. Hacienda has been crappy all winter, Mallory and Cane are like playing on bedrock with not enough grass. That leaves few courses to choose from. Of course they always blame it on environmental conditions - "not enough rain", etc., but they always manage to find enough water for Palmer. I agree, if conditions are better outside for the same $$, its worth the trip. The only way it will get fixed is if enough people complain and/or they lose money because people are going outside to play.

I'm sure they are blaming it on the lack of rainfall but what are they saving all the water in the retention ponds for? From what I see the ponds may not be full but they are a long way from being empty too. What are you saving it for? A rainy day?

[waterman1952]

I must say this is all very disturbing to me since i was seriously looking into buying in TV because of my interest in having lots of golf available but if the conditions are that bad why bother.

[katezbox]

I must say this is all very disturbing to me since i was seriously looking into buying in TV because of my interest in having lots of golf available but if the conditions are that bad why bother.

Waterman,

If you haven't visited, I would recommend doing so to allow you to make your own judgment on the courses. I have played at courses both better and worse than the ones here ... This thread IMO is to give golfers heads up on which courses are in the best condition. I doubt any of us would say that the conditions are so bad that we regret our decision... JMO - apologies in advance to others who have posted who don't feel the same..

[Taj44]

Katezbox, that is a good point. I don't regret my decision at all, and I am an ardent golfer. There are always some of The Villages courses that are in decent condition, but I get annoyed that "all" of the courses are not in good shape. We kind of have to pick and choose. I realize that the environment does come into play, but as schotzyb said, why aren't they using the rain in the retention basins? If there isn't enough water to put on the courses, then why aren't they building additional retention basins? They didn't overseed the fairways at Hacienda this winter which I think was a crime. But if they can get the big bucks like at Palmer, they can maintain a course in prisitine condition. Go figure.

We have friends who live in a nearby country club community that only has one golf course. If there is a problem with that course, they are forced to go outside to play. At least here, if some of the courses are not up to my standards, there are always other courses here that are very playable. I like having the options. But I've been appalled at how bad they let some of the courses go (Orange Blossom in winter of 2009-2010), Hacienda (winter of 2010-2011). I hope this doesn't portend the future at full build-out. At that point, we'll have all bought our houses, and there won't be incentive to keep the courses in good shape as there is when they're trying to sell real estate.

[Bogie Shooter]

Run, run the sky is falling!

[Mikeod]

There are reasons for the course conditions. Last fall was very dry, followed by a really cold November and December, both of which affected the overseed process. Palmer was overseeded first and got the benefit of a little rain shortly after overseeding, resulting in a good take of the seed. Other courses were overseeded later, and didn't get the benefit of any rain. With the water shortage, watering was prioritized to the tees and greens, with less to the fairways. Remember, the irrigation water to your homes is from the retention ponds as well and has priority over the golf courses. So, with a dry season, and more homes to irrigate, and restrictions from the water authority, as well as unseasonable cold,this golf season was hit with a double whammy. Less water available and lower temperatures that affected the overseed sprouting. The decision to not overseed Hacienda was due to water being available to support overseeding tees and greens only. Courses north of 466 have been around a lot longer and have the benefit of more mature turf, thus better conditions this winter than those south of 466, except Palmer. Another consideration is the amount of play these courses get. The winter population is much larger than the summer, and the courses get a lot of play during a period when the normal turf is asleep and we rely on overseeding to maintain playing surfaces.

Now we are in a transition period where the overseed has to be eliminated so the bermuda can take over. One way to do this is to reduce watering so the heat kills off the annual grasses. The soil temps have just now reached a point where the bermuda will awaken and flourish. Look for steady improvement over the next several weeks. And look for more consistent conditions as the turf matures.

The seasonal residents never see the courses in their best condition, as they are constructed with warm season grasses and play really well in the heat of the summer.

[red tail]

There are reasons for the course conditions. Last fall was very dry, followed by a really cold November and December, both of which affected the overseed process. Palmer was overseeded first and got the benefit of a little rain shortly after overseeding, resulting in a good take of the seed. Other courses were overseeded later, and didn't get the benefit of any rain. With the water shortage, watering was prioritized to the tees and greens, with less to the fairways. Remember, the irrigation water to your homes is from the retention ponds as well and has priority over the golf courses. So, with a dry season, and more homes to irrigate, and restrictions from the water authority, as well as unseasonable cold,this golf season was hit with a double whammy. Less water available and lower temperatures that affected the overseed sprouting. The decision to not overseed Hacienda was due to water being available to support overseeding tees and greens only. Courses north of 466 have been around a lot longer and have the benefit of more mature turf, thus better conditions this winter than those south of 466, except Palmer. Another consideration is the amount of play these courses get. The winter population is much larger than the summer, and the courses get a lot of play during a period when the normal turf is asleep and we rely on overseeding to maintain playing surfaces.

Now we are in a transition period where the overseed has to be eliminated so the bermuda can take over. One way to do this is to reduce watering so the heat kills off the annual grasses. The soil temps have just now reached a point where the bermuda will awaken and flourish. Look for steady improvement over the next several weeks. And look for more consistent conditions as the turf matures.

The seasonal residents never see the courses in their best condition, as they are constructed with warm season grasses and play really well in the heat of the summer.

i live on hacienda golf course and my irrigation water is the same water as our drinking water. so there must be other reasons for the poor conditions.

[chuckster]

As was explained, in particular to Hacienda, there is a limited amount of irrigation water available. It happens to be gray water not drinking water and is pumped into the large pond on the palms (near #5 and #7) daily to be run through the irrigation system nightly. Once again drinking water (which is in the residential irrigation systems NORTH of 466 and NOT South of 466) is not used on Hacienda Golf Course. In addition Hacienda does not have a deep well water source available as is the case I believe (could be wrong) at Tierra.

This was the explanation given to me.......hope this helps.

[Mikeod]

i live on hacienda golf course and my irrigation water is the same water as our drinking water. so there must be other reasons for the poor conditions.

My reference was directed mostly to the homes south of 466 since most of the negative comments regarded Mallory, Cane, and Havana. Hacienda is a unique situation as it doesn't have the water resources other courses have, and there were restrictions placed on drawing from the aquifer to augment rainfall and retention pond water. Going into the fall season, the plan was to also overseed the par 4 holes on the executive courses, but that was shelved with the lack of rainfall as well.

[cunch]

Played Spruce Creek yesterday. Nice grass! Why am I paying for a Priority Membership?

[spk7951]

Played Spruce Creek yesterday. Nice grass! Why am I paying for a Priority Membership?


Great question. The group I play Championship courses with weekly decided that this past winter we would play more off property courses due to TV course conditions and prices.

[Taj44]

Played Spruce Creek yesterday. Nice grass! Why am I paying for a Priority Membership?

Out of curiosity, how much are their greens fees over there? At least the Villages greens fees will be dropping the first of the month. Many of them will be down to $22 for a priority member as opposed to the winter rate of $33 or $34. But, they will be aerating the greens, so we'll have to work around that. On the bright side, it is becoming easier to get tee times.

[cunch]

Payed 24.00 at Spruce Creek.

[schotzyb]

Played Spruce Creek yesterday. Nice grass! Why am I paying for a Priority Membership?

Our group has played "off campus" courses every Saturday for the past 3 months. During this time period we have played Spruce Creek several times and it has always been in better shape than all The Villages courses other than maybe Palmer. It's condition had deterioated some the last time we played but still well worth the price of green fees especially with them supplying the cart.

[katezbox]

I love playing on campus. I still get a kick out of driving in my own cart, bringing my own beer, not having to lift my clubs in and out of the car, and not having to drive to and from an off campus course.

I realize that part of this is my not-yet-retired status and not wanting to spend my weekend time driving to play golf. That being said, I think that will change in the future. The off campus values are good and some of the TV courses have deteriorated.

Unfortunately, I think there will always be a strong market for the TV courses as long as the playing conditions are acceptable. I think as we age that convenience will win out over quality of the fairways. JMO.

[Mudder]

I agree with Katezbox. Convience is most important to me and besides my golf game doesn't need pristine conditions to rack up the score ! Aerated greens may even help my putting !!

[Taj44]

Payed 24.00 at Spruce Creek.

Thanks cunch.

[schotzyb]

Played Lopez today and the course is in super condition. Greens nice and soft with good speed to them. Nice fast round in just over 4 hours.

[ncr2482]

I too played Nancy Lopez yesterday morning and agree with the previous poster.My husband played Glenview in the afternoon and said that course is in good conditon.

[clekr]

Played Caroline/Virginia today. I've seen sheep pastures in better shape. Horrid conditions. They have nerve charging full price for that product.

I realize we are having draught conditions, but the ponds are full of water. If they were empty I would believe they are doing what they could to preserve conditions. What are they saving the water for?

Every tee time is filled. Until Villagers vote with their feet there will be no incentive to improve conditions.

[schotzyb]

Played Caroline/Virginia today. I've seen sheep pastures in better shape. Horrid conditions. They have nerve charging full price for that product.

I realize we are having draught conditions, but the ponds are full of water. If they were empty I would believe they are doing what they could to preserve conditions. What are they saving the water for?

Every tee time is filled. Until Villagers vote with their feet there will be no incentive to improve conditions.

The selection of good playable courses inside The Villages is dwindling rapidly. I only know of three that are actually worth what they are charging at winter rates. To me , Lopez, Orange Blossom and Palmer are the only 3 I have an interest in playing until there is some improvement. I realize the rates are going down in a couple of days but that doesn't change the fact that the other courses need lots of work.

[cabo35]

The selection of good playable courses inside The Villages is dwindling rapidly. I only know of three that are actually worth what they are charging at winter rates. To me , Lopez, Orange Blossom and Palmer are the only 3 I have an interest in playing until there is some improvement. I realize the rates are going down in a couple of days but that doesn't change the fact that the other courses need lots of work.

schotzyb has it exactly right. Played OB this morning and it is still in good shape. Minor spotting on some greens....most in good shape.

[schotzyb]

Finally played Palmer today (summer rates). It is everything all the other posters have raved about. Very, very nice to say the least from t box, fairway to the greens; all in terrific shape. Greens are fast so be prepared.

[nitakk]

Played Hibiscus at Cane Garden yesterday and it was like playing on an empty field overgrown with weeds on the fairways - tufts of grass and very dry. The greens were in terrible condition, too. Very disappointing after waiting for May 1 to do championships again!

[Taj44]

Played Caroline/Virginia today. I've seen sheep pastures in better shape. Horrid conditions. They have nerve charging full price for that product.

I realize we are having draught conditions, but the ponds are full of water. If they were empty I would believe they are doing what they could to preserve conditions. What are they saving the water for?

Every tee time is filled. Until Villagers vote with their feet there will be no incentive to improve conditions.

What ticks me off is we were driving by Mallory Sunday, and they were watering the big traffic circle plantings near the clubhouse for at least 3 hours. Water was pouring all over the street, being wasted. Yet I almost never see them watering Mallory or Cane. If water is so precious why aren't they putting it on the golf courses not on the road or watering the medians? Mallory and Cane are just atrocious. I've run into more and more people that are going outside The Villages to play, because of the horrible golf course condtions. As schotzyb said, OB, Lopez and Palmer are worth paying for at this point. Havana was doing pretty good, but it too is dry and hard, although at least it is mostly green. I haven't played Glenview in awhile, so can't comment. Does anyone know - have Tierra or Hacienda improved????

[schotzyb]

We played Spruce Creek(North) today and have to say their fairways are as good as any here in The Villages. Greens had been aerated maybe a week or 10 days ago but were healing nicely. Green fees were $18.00 + tax. A very good deal.

[ajbrown]

Played Ashley to Torri at Lopez yesterday morning. Beautiful morning and course is nice shape.

[ajbrown]

What ticks me off is we were driving by Mallory Sunday, and they were watering the big traffic circle plantings near the clubhouse for at least 3 hours. Water was pouring all over the street, being wasted. Yet I almost never see them watering Mallory or Cane. If water is so precious why aren't they putting it on the golf courses not on the road or watering the medians?

I have no idea if the two issues are related but I have always wondered the same thing. I take it a step further and wonder in a meticulously planned community of our size that ??must?? stress resources such as water, why all plantings along roadways would not be done in such a way that minimal water is required to keep aesthetically pleasing.

I could be off base here. I have no idea where the water for all roads and cart paths comes from and how it relates to my yard or golf courses.... but I wonder and others will straighten me out :)

[spk7951]

I have no idea if the two issues are related but I have always wondered the same thing. I take it a step further and wonder in a meticulously planned community of our size that ??must?? stress resources such as water, why all plantings along roadways would not be done in such a way that minimal water is required to keep aesthetically pleasing.

I could be off base here. I have no idea where the water for all roads and cart paths comes from and how it relates to my yard or golf courses.... but I wonder and others will straighten me out :)


After taking a cart ride along 466A Sunday to check out the Bonifay progress I can not help but wonder if possibly water is being re-directed, at the expense of other courses, to Bonifay to help the grow-in process???

[aljetmet]

With the conditions of the courses, how many people have full priority memberships? Doesn't seem like a prudent investment if you do not like the conditions? Is it because of your friends belong and best way to get a tee time for 18? Just curious....

[schotzyb]

I have purchased a Priority Membership each of the three years I have been here but when it expires in Oct, I am not sure I will renew it unless the golf courses conditions improve dramatically.

[ajbrown]

With the conditions of the courses, how many people have full priority memberships? Doesn't seem like a prudent investment if you do not like the conditions? Is it because of your friends belong and best way to get a tee time for 18? Just curious....

No one is saying anything in this thread about the condition of the courses that I do not agree with. I agree it has been a less than stellar year and I do not know the reason, so I will not speculate.

With that said, I will be keeping my priority membership for next year. This year I had 4 courses I could play through the winter (OB, NL, GV, PL), two others had their moments (TDS and Havana). Most of my life I have been a member of one course. When that course had a tough year, you really had an issue and you were out of pocket $2500. In addition, I truly enjoy driving my cart from my garage to a local course, I hope TV can get it right so I never feel I must to go outside to have decent golf.

PS. Personally I am hoping everyone cancels their priority memberships. The pools get to crowded for me in high season :evil6::duck:

[Fourpar]

I have purchased a Priority Membership each of the three years I have been here but when it expires in Oct, I am not sure I will renew it unless the golf courses conditions improve dramatically.

Ditto!

TV advertises this as a "Golf Community", and they should be ashamed to do so. The only courses that seem playable are Lopez and Palmer (& maybe OBH). The rest remind me of neglected muni tracks.

This ain't what I signed up for, and I am hearing a lot of others saying the same thing. More are folks looking "off campus" for courses to play because of the conditions here. :yuck:

[gcrisp]

I can't believe the complaining about the course conditions. Worse than muni's. please. I have only played on visits, but have never played on a bad course. Maybe a fairway or two. The surroundings and views are spectacular everywhere you look. I can't wait to make TV our home so I can play these "bad conditioned" courses often. Just having so many choices available is great. Enjoy the view and remember a bad day on the golf course is better than any day at work.

[schotzyb]

I can't believe the complaining about the course conditions. Worse than muni's. please. I have only played on visits, but have never played on a bad course. Maybe a fairway or two. The surroundings and views are spectacular everywhere you look. I can't wait to make TV our home so I can play these "bad conditioned" courses often. Just having so many choices available is great. Enjoy the view and remember a bad day on the golf course is better than any day at work.

If you are an avid golfer and are in The Villages now, go out and play a round on Cane Garden and then come back here and let us know if you still feel the same way.

[Taj44]

gcrisp - I'm glad the courses were in good shape whenever you visited, but they are not in good shape now, with a few exceptions. Those of us who are die-hard golfers and are paying a premium for a priority membership, plus the additional greens fees, are very disappointed in the conditions, which really have been pretty bad all winter then continuing into the spring. When you live here full time you get to look at the views in The Villages all day, every day,so that is not so important to us when we play golf as it might be to someone on vacation. But when we play golf we expect good condtions given the $$$ we are spending to play these courses, and The Villages has advertised that we will have golf courses maintained to a high standard. They are not keeping their promise.

[chuckster]

With the conditions of the courses, how many people have full priority memberships? Doesn't seem like a prudent investment if you do not like the conditions? Is it because of your friends belong and best way to get a tee time for 18? Just curious....

We use priority for the country club pools (for visiting family and grandkids), to play in couples events and mens day. Have played in several off campus courses and found similar conditions (mallory and cane excluded) to village championship courses. Among them Harbor Hills, Stonecrest, and others. Courses north of here in Marion county (near Ocala) are better in that they have been getting the rain that the villages has been missing. Several weeks ago (on a wednesday) at Ocala golden hills finished before the heavy rain that never materialized in the villages. Same the week before at Juliette Falls. In fact it never came south into our area.

Been here 8 years and have seen wet and dry years for golfing.

[schotzyb]

We use priority for the country club pools (for visiting family and grandkids), to play in couples events and mens day. Have played in several off campus courses and found similar conditions (mallory and cane excluded) to village championship courses. Among them Harbor Hills, Stonecrest, and others. Courses north of here in Marion county (near Ocala) are better in that they have been getting the rain that the villages has been missing. Several weeks ago (on a wednesday) at Ocala golden hills finished before the heavy rain that never materialized in the villages. Same the week before at Juliette Falls. In fact it never came south into our area.

Been here 8 years and have seen wet and dry years for golfing.


We played Spruce Creek North which is very close to Stonecrest this past Saturday and their fairways were superior to any here in the Village other than Palmer and Lopez and they were equal to them. Greens had been aerated 7-10 days ago and were healing nicely

[chuckster]

Thanks for the info...will give it a try. cane and mallory definitely off our list.

[Taj44]

Played Tierra the other day and its not too bad, but I believe they're slated to aerate it on May 22.

[MrMark]

If you are an avid golfer and are in The Villages now, go out and play a round on Cane Garden and then come back here and let us know if you still feel the same way.

Played there today. Have never played a course, Private or Public in worse condition. My group will not be booking there for the remainder of the Summer.

[schotzyb]

I have a feeling I will be saying the same about Mallory after we play it Monday. At least I know what to expect tomorrow at Lopez. One of the few courses left worth even the summer rates green fees.

[waynet]

what can be done about these conditions? Who is there to talk to?

[schotzyb]

I sent a email via Golfthevillages website to Todd Basso. At least I think he will receive it. I did the same last year and he called me and talked for about 15 minutes about these same issues. I will let you know if I hear back from him .

[schotzyb]

Played 15 holes at Mallory today before the rain came. I honestly wish it would have come a couple hours earlier. It was difficult to tell where the fairways ended and the rough started cause there was no grass on either one. Amelia is shut down till further notice . Caroline and Virginia should be shut down. I have to admit the greens were not that bad but you have to get on them in order to putt. Cross off another course on my list. In house courses are getting slimmer and slimmer and the T times on the "good" courses(Palmer, Lopez) are making it harder to get on one of them.

[schotzyb]

Played Lopez today and even though it is still in good shape it is starting to show the effects of the excess play it is getting due to the poor conditions of several of the other courses. The fairways especially are starting to show the wear from the extra golf cart traffic . They are still much better than most but are showing wear. Greens are still very nice.

[ajbrown]

Played Lopez today and even though it is still in good shape it is starting to show the effects of the excess play it is getting due to the poor conditions of several of the other courses. The fairways especially are starting to show the wear from the extra golf cart traffic . They are still much better than most but are showing wear. Greens are still very nice.

To be fair, aren't the fairways in transition? I do not remember the grass types, but isn't the winter over seed dieing off to be replaced by the summer grass?

I could be wrong, just wondering if this may explain why the fairways are getting a bit worse?

[chuckster]

I heard the same..............the overseeded winter rye is replaced by the dormant bermuda. It does take time and water from what I was told. Off campus courses seem to have less play and the fairways don't have as many carts on them. Good reason for the 90 degree fairway request the other day.

[rpt201158]

Hello All. The golf condition string really concerns me as my wife and I are coming down to check TV for retirement. I do not want to retire to a place where golf conditions are not taken seriously. Charlotte area may be looking better and better. What is the process where residents can address the golf issues ? I am not getting a good feeling here.

[red tail]

you should come see for yourself. things tend to get exaggerated on this forum.

[schotzyb]

To be fair, aren't the fairways in transition? I do not remember the grass types, but isn't the winter over seed dieing off to be replaced by the summer grass?

I could be wrong, just wondering if this may explain why the fairways are getting a bit worse?

Good point and I am sure that is true. But I still think the extra play is also a contributing factor. 90 deg rule to me should always be used

[nitehawk]

I sent a email via Golfthevillages website to Todd Basso. At least I think he will receive it. I did the same last year and he called me and talked for about 15 minutes about these same issues. I will let you know if I hear back from him .

I am sending a email today to Todd Basso - just wondering if he got back to you?
TV was always known as a great golf community soon to be known as a great cow pasture community. I hope when major things like happen it is not the beginning of the end. Keep building homes and filling every empty space with homes - soon two family homes $$$$$ - a squeaky wheel gets the most grease -the horseshoe pits are in great shape -

[schotzyb]

I am sending a email today to Todd Basso - just wondering if he got back to you?
TV was always known as a great golf community soon to be known as a great cow pasture community. I hope when major things like happen it is not the beginning of the end. Keep building homes and filling every empty space with homes - soon two family homes $$$$$ - a squeaky wheel gets the most grease -the horseshoe pits are in great shape -

No, I have not received a reply yet but to be fair about this, I cannot be absolutely positive he received it. I did not have a personal email for Todd so I filled out the "contact" request on golfthevillages website to be forwarded to him.

[schotzyb]

I did receive a reply today for the email I sent concerning the condition of some of the golf courses here in The Villages. I won't post it here but will share it by pm to anyone interested.

[nkrifats]

I did receive a reply today for the email I sent concerning the condition of some of the golf courses here in The Villages. I won't post it here but will share it by pm to anyone interested.

Could you PM that to me?

Thanks

[ljones190]

I did receive a reply today for the email I sent concerning the condition of some of the golf courses here in The Villages. I won't post it here but will share it by pm to anyone interested.

I would like a copy too.

Thanks

[waynet]

I would also like a pm please. I'm very interested in the response.

[soonfl]

I promise to take my high BP meds before hand

[chuckster]

Schotzyb...........Count me in for a pm of your email......thanks

[Pturner]

I did receive a reply today for the email I sent concerning the condition of some of the golf courses here in The Villages. I won't post it here but will share it by pm to anyone interested.

I'm interested too. Thanks.

[JOHNNA]

I don't know how to start a new post so I am trying to spread the word here. A dog followed me into Mulberry Publix tonight and after deciding he was lost, we called the radio station and finally I brought him to my home in Piedmont. I need to find his owner!! He is a silver Schnauzer and very friendly. Has a collar but no tags. PLEASE! Help me find his MOM & Dad.

[nitehawk]

thank you schotzyb could you send me a copy -

[schotzyb]

Just thought I would mention that the gentleman that replied to my email concerning the championship golf courses condition stated that they are aware of talkofthevillages.com so keep on posting both pro and con comments on this subject.

[cabo35]

I did receive a reply today for the email I sent concerning the condition of some of the golf courses here in The Villages. I won't post it here but will share it by pm to anyone interested.

I would appeciate a copy as well. Thanks.

[schotzyb]

Our group of 16 played Glenview and I have to say that this is the worst I have seen this golf course in the three years I have been here.The fairways are not that bad but the greens have large squares of bad spots that have been cut out and patched. All of the greens have diseased spots all over them. You would have better luck putting in a sand bunker.

[cabo35]

Played Palmer yesterday.....poorly....... Disappointed in deteriating fairway conditions. It was always a fall back when we wanted to play under good course conditions. We will now be falling back to World Woods.

[schotzyb]

I posted a few days ago that the same thing is happening to Lopez. More play on Lopez and Palmer is resulting in the deterioating conditions. Lack of rain and the grass type changing has also been mentioned but if you look around at the other courses you will see there are lots fewer golfers playing them than Lopez and Palmer

[cabo35]

I phoned Erik Greulach. Assistant Director of COUNTRY CLUB Operations. He returned my call promptly. He has been involved with golf operations for many years. While I was loaded for bear, I gave him an opportunity to explain what's happening with CC course conditions. I have to say I was impressed by his knowledge and what I believe is his sincere concern about the problems. He acknowledged one contractor problem at a course. It has been corrected. The source of the problem is primarily.......water.

In the Fall we had 42 days without rain.

In December we had 14 days of frost.

There are acknowledged allotment issues that he explained in some detail.

Bonafay is not a factor because it is in a different permit area.

Current deterioration issues are in part attributable to the "transition" from winter to summer grass.

Adjustments have been made to bring the courses back to true CC conditions. There is a definable plan of action in place.

I ended the call with more confidence in course management and satisfied with the explanations offered. Time will tell.

Erik's number is 753-3396.

[schotzyb]

Thanks Cabo for the update and I sincerely hope what you were told comes to be. Will be nice to play on a nicely manicured course again.

[Pturner]

I phoned Erik Greulach. Assistant Director of COUNTRY CLUB Operations. He returned my call promptly. He has been involved with golf operations for many years. While I was loaded for bear, I gave him an opportunity to explain what's happening with CC course conditions. I have to say I was impressed by his knowledge and what I believe is his sincere concern about the problems. He acknowledged one contractor problem at a course. It has been corrected. The source of the problem is primarily.......water.

In the Fall we had 42 days without rain.

In December we had 14 days of frost.

There are acknowledged allotment issues that he explained in some detail.

Bonafay is not a factor because it is in a different permit area.

Current deterioration issues are in part attributable to the "transition" from winter to summer grass.

Adjustments have been made to bring the courses back to true CC conditions. There is a definable plan of action in place.

I ended the call with more confidence in course management and satisfied with the explanations offered. Time will tell.

Erik's number is 753-3396.

Thanks for the encouraging upate.

[golf2140]

Come on rain :sing:

[Taj44]

We played Mallory the other day, Caroline to Virginia. Based on what I've read previously, I was prepared for horrible conditions, but if you kept the ball in the fairway, the conditions seemed no worse than Havana. The greens were in fairly good shape as well, quite fast. If your ball went off the fairway, however, all bets were off. You could get lucky and have grass or you could end up in areas that had little or no grass - patches of dust.

[ajbrown]

Looking to play Friday and Sunday. Based on aerification schedule looks like Havana, Tierra and Palmer are out.

That leaves Glenview, Hacienda, Cane, Orange Blossum, Lopez and Mallory.

I have heard through grapevine Glenview is hurting and Hacienda still no good.

That leaves Cane, OB, Lopez and Mallory.

Has anyone tried Glenview lately to confirm it is in tough shape?

I have been playing a bunch at Lopez, so looking for alternative. Based on Taj44 post I will add Mallory to my request list. Has Cane recovered at all, maybe aeration helped?

Thanks,
Alan

[schotzyb]

If it were me, I would not play Glenview for at least another two weeks. Our regular Friday group played there this past Friday 5/20/11 and the greens are the worst in The Villages at this time. Large diseased spots have been cut out and patched with sod, plus there are many diseased spots that have not been tended to other than aerated and sanded. Fairways and T boxes are fine.

[spk7951]

Looking to play Friday and Sunday. Based on aerification schedule looks like Havana, Tierra and Palmer are out.

That leaves Glenview, Hacienda, Cane, Orange Blossum, Lopez and Mallory.

I have heard through grapevine Glenview is hurting and Hacienda still no good.

That leaves Cane, OB, Lopez and Mallory.

Has anyone tried Glenview lately to confirm it is in tough shape?

I have been playing a bunch at Lopez, so looking for alternative. Based on Taj44 post I will add Mallory to my request list. Has Cane recovered at all, maybe aeration helped?

Thanks,
Alan


One of my neighbors played Glenview yesterday, Sunday, and said pretty much the same as Schotzyb did about the conditions there. With Mallory Amelia is still listed as closed for at least another week. Havana does not look too bad but I will know better tomorrow as I will be playing there in the pm, I can follow up and let you know how it is.

[schotzyb]

I am also playing Havana tomorrow afternoon so I too will let you know what to expect if you plan on playing there.

[Fourpar]

Played OBH Sunday. It is still in pretty good shape. Played HH today, and it'll be a long time before I set foot on that place again!
All in all, it sure seems like TV is not taking care of the courses anywhere near as well as in previous (3) years. And yet TV still advertises as a golfing community...Take a lot of stones! :rant-rave:

[spk7951]

Because one of my group had a late afternoon time conflict the best I can offer is an update on Kilimanjaro since we opted to just play nine today.

Fairways are not bad, just some brown spots and overall dry. Some of the tee boxes are especially dried out. Greens are not too bad for being aerated one week ago. Sand seems to have pretty much filled into the aeration holes, but I did find a couple of issues with green #6 and #9. Did not notice much bounce when putting. On #6 there is a small area heavy with sand over on the right side while on #9 green in the right front there are five patches of sod.

Rain certainly will help but at $9.50 for the round, no problem.

[schotzyb]

Because one of my group had a late afternoon time conflict the best I can offer is an update on Kilimanjaro since we opted to just play nine today.

Fairways are not bad, just some brown spots and overall dry. Some of the tee boxes are especially dried out. Greens are not too bad for being aerated one week ago. Sand seems to have pretty much filled into the aeration holes, but I did find a couple of issues with green #6 and #9. Did not notice much bounce when putting. On #6 there is a small area heavy with sand over on the right side while on #9 green in the right front there are five patches of sod.

Rain certainly will help but at $9.50 for the round, no problem.


Basicly I agree with all spk wrote. The fairways are spotty and in my opinion mowed a little too close. They were mowing them and the rough this afternoon. Give the rough a chance to grow a little. The greens were really not that bad, certainly not as bad as Glenviews patchwork greens. They were aerated on the 17th and it appears to be working. Another week or so ans some good rain and it would be a pleasure to play.

[Taj44]

I played Cane yesterday. Wow, I had heard the course was bad, but it was REALLY bad! I think they had aerified the fairways, and they were just awful. I actuallly moved the ball a few times in the fairways, to put it on some grass, and I never do that in Florida. I also saw quite a few weeds, which I've been seeing on the other courses as well. I know we need water, but did they stop doing weed control as well???

I had played Mallory (Caroline to Virginia) a week or so ago, and it wasn't too bad, but I notice that with no rain this past week it is looking pretty brown. Can no longer vouch for the conditions. On the bright side, Amelia looks very, very green. Maybe they're directing their water allotment for Mallory to the Amelia course, trying to bring it back up to snuff.

[ajbrown]

I had played Mallory (Caroline to Virginia) a week or so ago, and it wasn't too bad, but I notice that with no rain this past week it is looking pretty brown. Can no longer vouch for the conditions.

Looking forward to some 340 yard drives at Mallory on Friday. 240 in the air and 100 on the roll :oops:

[ajbrown]

I played Mallory today, Virginia to Caroline. The biggest issue for me is that Caroline is cart path only. Cart path only is a giant pain in the butt. Almost easier to carry your bag.

The greens are "OK", the fairways are completely fried. I was told by an ambassador that Mallory has reached their water allotment. Until it rains they get not more. This is not a fact, I pass it along as hearsay from an ambassador.

[schotzyb]

Played Orange Blossom today and course is still in very good condition. Fairways are nice and green and very few if any bare spots. Greens are als very good. Have a couple with some type of unwanted grass sprouts but those were being tended to. All in all OBH is in better shape than all the other Villages courses I have played in the last two weeks.

[schotzyb]

Played Palmer today and am sorry to say that it's condition has worsened to the same as most of the other courses. 50% of each fairway are burnt brown and the greens have been aerated about 2 weeks ago are in terrible condition. Appears they have "let it go" since the rates went down.

[aln]

Played Yankee Clipper Sunday. Almost as bad as I've seen any course here in TV. The 5th green was getting near the condition of the 5th at Mira Mesa before they closed it and ripped it out to rebuild it. Doubt I'll go back there till we get some rain.

[Larry Wilson]

Never seen golf courses in such bad condition. I do think they all need more water. Why keep building bigger when you can't take care of what you have???
I know- the answer is the developer is making more money selling houses. I've lived here 8 years and I never thought I would see the golf courses look like this.

[katezbox]

Looking forward to some 340 yard drives at Mallory on Friday. 240 in the air and 100 on the roll :oops:

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.... I hit a 3 wood off the tea on Pelican yesterday and it went over 200 yards. Into the left $%&!!! green bunker...

[Taj44]

I know, its kind of fun. I've been getting on par 5's , or just up by the green, in two. Reality will set in later this summer when the courses are waterlogged from the rain.

Has anyone played Tierra lately? Just wondering about the conditions.

[schotzyb]

I know, its kind of fun. I've been getting on par 5's , or just up by the green, in two. Reality will set in later this summer when the courses are waterlogged from the rain.

Has anyone played Tierra lately? Just wondering about the conditions.

So the conditions are why I am hitting it so much further; thought it was those new high dollar golf balls I was using. Might as well go back to the old Top Flites.
Have not played Tierra lately but have had it on our request several times but no luck.

[rubicon]

Haven't been able to get on Yankee Clipper for a month and I only carry 3point per week. Now I find that my joy in getting a tee time Wednesday is downgraded as are the conditions. To add insult to injury Palmers reported in poor shape. Both reports match my play poor:crap2:

[Bogie Shooter]

Nothing or nobody to blame other than the lack of rainwater.

[Fourpar]

Nothing or nobody to blame other than the lack of rainwater.
So, how come the off-campus courses are in such better shape? Think they get more water per course than TV?
Played Eagle Ridge, Reserve and Links lately and all are in much, much better shape than I have seen in TV.
Kind of hard to claim to be a super golf community with courses that resemble neglected municipal courses. IMHO

[schotzyb]

Nothing or nobody to blame other than the lack of rainwater.

Sorry, can't buy that explanation. Why is OBH in such good shape.? Did it rain more over it than Mallory or Cane? And as Fourpar stated, many of the off campus courses in close proximity of The Villages are in much better shape than the ones here. More to it than just lack of rain.

[Mikeod]

Sorry, can't buy that explanation. Why is OBH in such good shape.? Did it rain more over it than Mallory or Cane? And as Fourpar stated, many of the off campus courses in close proximity of The Villages are in much better shape than the ones here. More to it than just lack of rain.

Think water allocation. It differs from place to place, with a lot depending on when they were built, even within TV. That's why Hacienda wasn't overseeded completely. In TV, with more and more homes being occupied, the drain on the reclaimed water supply is increasing. Home irrigation has priority over golf courses. Wanna bet some people are irrigating more than two times a week? Look at the zoysia lawns around TV. They are the closest to the bermuda used on the golf courses. Lots of brown. And they don't have golf carts running over them every day. To blame this on anything but the lack of rainfall presumes the people responsible for the golf courses don't care or don't know what they are doing. Their hands are tied by the water restrictions THEY have imposed on them. It's not fair to compare to courses outside TV which may have sources or allocations of water TV doesn't have. OBH is the oldest course in TV, with plenty of time for the roots to get deep so the grass can sustain drought conditions better than the newer courses. It is not a coincidence that the courses above 466, in general, have been in better condition (except Hacienda, for obvious reasons) than the newer courses south of 466.

I have met and spoken to people responsible for golf courses in TV and they are passionate about these courses. Talk to the pros at the courses and you will see the same concern about conditions, tempered by the reality of the unusual seasons we have experienced the last two years with temperature and rainfall.

[Bogie Shooter]

Think water allocation. It differs from place to place, with a lot depending on when they were built, even within TV. That's why Hacienda wasn't overseeded completely. In TV, with more and more homes being occupied, the drain on the reclaimed water supply is increasing. Home irrigation has priority over golf courses. Wanna bet some people are irrigating more than two times a week? Look at the zoysia lawns around TV. They are the closest to the bermuda used on the golf courses. Lots of brown. And they don't have golf carts running over them every day. To blame this on anything but the lack of rainfall presumes the people responsible for the golf courses don't care or don't know what they are doing. Their hands are tied by the water restrictions THEY have imposed on them. It's not fair to compare to courses outside TV which may have sources or allocations of water TV doesn't have. OBH is the oldest course in TV, with plenty of time for the roots to get deep so the grass can sustain drought conditions better than the newer courses. It is not a coincidence that the courses above 466, in general, have been in better condition (except Hacienda, for obvious reasons) than the newer courses south of 466.

I have met and spoken to people responsible for golf courses in TV and they are passionate about these courses. Talk to the pros at the courses and you will see the same concern about conditions, tempered by the reality of the unusual seasons we have experienced the last two years with temperature and rainfall.

This makes far too much sense and most likley will not be accepted by the folks who would rather blame the golf course staffs.

[rubicon]

That would ignore the off season, the reduction in fees and the fact that the courses have a steady income stream???????

[schotzyb]

Think water allocation. It differs from place to place, with a lot depending on when they were built, even within TV. That's why Hacienda wasn't overseeded completely. In TV, with more and more homes being occupied, the drain on the reclaimed water supply is increasing. Home irrigation has priority over golf courses. Wanna bet some people are irrigating more than two times a week? Look at the zoysia lawns around TV. They are the closest to the bermuda used on the golf courses. Lots of brown. And they don't have golf carts running over them every day. To blame this on anything but the lack of rainfall presumes the people responsible for the golf courses don't care or don't know what they are doing. Their hands are tied by the water restrictions THEY have imposed on them. It's not fair to compare to courses outside TV which may have sources or allocations of water TV doesn't have. OBH is the oldest course in TV, with plenty of time for the roots to get deep so the grass can sustain drought conditions better than the newer courses. It is not a coincidence that the courses above 466, in general, have been in better condition (except Hacienda, for obvious reasons) than the newer courses south of 466.

I have met and spoken to people responsible for golf courses in TV and they are passionate about these courses. Talk to the pros at the courses and you will see the same concern about conditions, tempered by the reality of the unusual seasons we have experienced the last two years with temperature and rainfall.

If what you are saying here is true with the growth of The Villages then the current conditions are what we can expect from now on. Nobody can promise our weather patterns will change and we will receive more rain in each coming year. As you state more and more homes are being built with the knowledge that we are incapable of supplying the current golf courses with sufficient water. In other words we are at the mercy of the weather. Not a very good scenario if you ask me.

[katezbox]

This makes far too much sense and most likley will not be accepted by the folks who would rather blame the golf course staffs.

Yep....

[katezbox]

That would ignore the off season, the reduction in fees and the fact that the courses have a steady income stream???????

Rubicon,

What would do this? I'm lost. If you don't click the quote button when you comments on a post, it is hard to follow who you are agreeing or disagreeing with.

[Taj44]

The problem is, what we are seeing as far as conditions, doesn't compute with age of courses as far as turf depth. For example, Havana has been in pretty good shape compared to Mallory and Cane, and its much newer. Palmer and Lopez have been in good shape, and they're newer than Hacienda. We all know there are water restrictions, but it is not entirely clear why some courses are consistently in better shape, have more water to put on, than other courses; Palmer, Lopez, and Havana being chief examples. I watched them water Havana and Palmer almost every day a couple months ago, while Mallory was getting almost no water.

[pooh]

..................... In other words we are at the mercy of the weather. Not a very good scenario if you ask me.

We ARE at the mercy of the weather, here and in just about all locations across the US. Where the heck do you get more water if it doesn't rain? Florida doesn't buy water from others, salt water isn't desalinated for use here. The past few summers have been hot and dry. Haven't you ever lived in an area with water restrictions? Would you prefer that potable water be used to irrigate the courses instead of non-potable water? Maybe that's what could be happening in other locations.

[pooh]

The problem is, what we are seeing as far as conditions, doesn't compute with age of courses as far as turf depth. For example, Havana has been in pretty good shape compared to Mallory and Cane, and its much newer. Palmer and Lopez have been in good shape, and they're newer than Hacienda. We all know there are water restrictions, but it is not entirely clear why some courses are consistently in better shape, have more water to put on, than other courses; Palmer, Lopez, and Havana being chief examples. I watched them water Havana and Palmer almost every day a couple months ago, while Mallory was getting almost no water.

It has to do with water allocation.

[schotzyb]

We ARE at the mercy of the weather, here and in just about all locations across the US. Where the heck do you get more water if it doesn't rain? Florida doesn't buy water from others, salt water isn't desalinated for use here. The past few summers have been hot and dry. Haven't you ever lived in an area with water restrictions? Would you prefer that potable water be used to irrigate the courses instead of non-potable water? Maybe that's what could be happening in other locations.


No, what i would prefer is to receive what is being advertised, that being Championship Golf Courses not courses that resemble Municipal Golf Courses. Even with a priority membership here in The Villages you pay more for 18 holes of golf in the summer months with the courses in their present condition than you do playing at many courses outside The Villages in much better condition. You can only blame the weather so long before people tire of hearing it. Knowing that rain is so vital to the conditions of the courses , is anything being done to offset the lack of it? More retention ponds being built to store more water for times like these.? I don't see them if they are.

[pooh]

No, what i would prefer is to receive what is being advertised, that being Championship Golf Courses not courses that resemble Municipal Golf Courses. Even with a priority membership here in The Villages you pay more for 18 holes of golf in the summer months with the courses in their present condition than you do playing at many courses outside The Villages in much better condition. You can only blame the weather so long before people tire of hearing it. Knowing that rain is so vital to the conditions of the courses , is anything being done to offset the lack of it? More retention ponds being built to store more water for times like these.? I don't see them if they are.

I'm not sure that additional retention ponds can be built without permits or enviromental impact reports. The master plan presented to counties is what it is. You can't just "dig a hole" somewhere....as logical as that might seem to you...and remember "plumbing" has to be installed also to get that water from one location to another. There are houses, golf course, marsh land, that are all impacted if someone just starts digging.

One does have the option of playing other courses outside TV if they feel the courses are better. It will get better when it rains....the golf course, our yards, the retention ponds. The first year I was here, you needed a hammer to get the tees into the ground, it had been a hot, dry summer before our arrival. It got better...got rain during the rainy season. Florida goes through climate cycles, sometimes expected and many times, unexpected. Weather has been unpredictable without a doubt and the weather here is no exception.

[Taj44]

It has to do with water allocation.

If that is the case, then Havana would be allocated more water than Mallory why????? Makes no sense.

[schotzyb]

I'm not sure that additional retention ponds can be built without permits or enviromental impact reports. The master plan presented to counties is what it is. You can't just "dig a hole" somewhere....as logical as that might seem to you...and remember "plumbing" has to be installed also to get that water from one location to another. There are houses, golf course, marsh land, land where homes are situated...that are all impacted if someone just starts digging.

I understand that but the question I am asking is what is being done now to prevent this from being an every dry summer occurrance. Like I said, I don't see any measures being taken to alleviate the problem but I do see more and more houses being built which will only worsen not help the problem

[pooh]

If that is the case, then Havana would be allocated more water than Mallory why????? Makes no sense.

It could be that one course has more storage than another. I'm not sure how much "storage" Havana has vs Mallory.

It still boils down to just how much water there is available and without much rain, retention ponds are low.

[pooh]

I understand that but the question I am asking is what is being done now to prevent this from being an every dry summer occurrance. Like I said, I don't see any measures being taken to alleviate the problem but I do see more and more houses being built which will only worsen not help the problem

Then the next step should be to stop building houses? Remember, TV is in two parts, the part that's already built and the part that exists on paper. Climatic conditions probably weren't generally a huge consideration when planning this community...heck Florida usually gets sufficient rain in the summer and even some in the winter to keep the state green. Hasn't happened for a couple of summers and we have yet no clue if this summer is going to be wet or dry.

The new homes have to be built, plans are approved and must and will move forward. Not all who live in TV play golf and some might not understand your angst about dry courses. I understand, I've been playing at golf for many years and do enjoy it more when the grass is lush and green....however, I can also understand that water shortages do present difficulties in keeping courses in that type of playing condition.

[katezbox]

Pooh, Taj and Schotzy,

Thank you for a civil discourse - where you disagree with each other, without snide, rude comments!

kate

[schotzyb]

Then the next step should be to stop building houses? Remember, TV is in two parts, the part that's already built and the part that exists on paper. Climatic conditions probably weren't generally a huge consideration when planning this community...heck Florida usually gets sufficient rain in the summer and even some in the winter to keep the state green. Hasn't happened for a couple of summers and we have yet no clue if this summer is going to be wet or dry.

The new homes have to be built, plans are approved and must and will move forward. Not all who live in TV play golf and some might not understand your angst about dry courses. I understand, I've been playing at golf for many years and do enjoy it more when the grass is lush and green....however, I can also understand that water shortages do present difficulties in keeping courses in that type of playing condition.

Well we both know they are not going to quit building houses so I guess all one can do is grin and bear it . Not me, I refuse to pay another ~$1000 for a Priority Membership to play on courses in these courses conditions. I will take my chances with outside courses .