[karostay]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Yea, time to change the subject from political to something less offensive.

Thank You

[chachacha]

i do not find this thread offensive, but sad that it is true that most christians are a poor example of what Christ wanted our lives to be like...it is also true that more muslims practice refraining from drinking, shunning abortion, frequent prayer and other things which i admire. unfortunately, that is also accompanied by maltreatment of women in many cases, and in worst scenarios a tendency to radicalize. if only more christians had the fervor of the muslims, and if only more muslims had the peace of Christ, the world would be an all around better place. we should all pray for each other.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by chachacha

i do not find this thread offensive, but sad that it is true that most christians are a poor example of what Christ wanted our lives to be like...it is also true that more muslims practice refraining from drinking, shunning abortion, frequent prayer and other things which i admire. unfortunately, that is also accompanied by maltreatment of women in many cases, and in worst scenarios a tendency to radicalize. if only more christians had the fervor of the muslims, and if only more muslims had the peace of Christ, the world would be an all around better place. we should all pray for each other.

Chachacha ...Very well put indeed ... let's hope that happens someday

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by chachacha

i do not find this thread offensive, but sad that it is true that most christians are a poor example of what Christ wanted our lives to be like...it is also true that more muslims practice refraining from drinking, shunning abortion, frequent prayer and other things which i admire. unfortunately, that is also accompanied by maltreatment of women in many cases, and in worst scenarios a tendency to radicalize. if only more christians had the fervor of the muslims, and if only more muslims had the peace of Christ, the world would be an all around better place. we should all pray for each other.

What an enormously profound, extremely kind and very thoughtful post.

Today I will work a little harder on my end.

Hugs and love Cha.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by chachacha

i do not find this thread offensive, but sad that it is true that most christians are a poor example of what Christ wanted our lives to be like...it is also true that more muslims practice refraining from drinking, shunning abortion, frequent prayer and other things which i admire. unfortunately, that is also accompanied by maltreatment of women in many cases, and in worst scenarios a tendency to radicalize. if only more christians had the fervor of the muslims, and if only more muslims had the peace of Christ, the world would be an all around better place. we should all pray for each other.

When we all understand that what we see wrong with them is the differences we can start a dialogue. As long Christians and Muslims focus on our differences instead of what we can agree on, it will never end. We will say how do Muslim women tolerate their treatment and they say it is Gods will. You must be able to see why a devout Muslim looks at the way Christian woman dress and be totally freaked out. Their beliefs go back thousands of years before Christianity was brought into the world.

Disclaimer.. I am willing to fight to the death to keep America free from all religions. Now, keep in mind more Muslims feel that strongly about their faith than do Christians about theirs.

[justjim]

It's been a while but I "sort of kind of" remember reading about the Christian Crusades somewhere around 1099 (and a couple hundred years later I think) where the Pope promised eternal salvation to those who would war with the Muslins and take back the Holy Land. Yep, Christians and Muslins have been fighting for many many years. However, the stakes are a bit higher with modern warfare. It's one things to fight with sword and the use of horses, entirely something different with the weapons available today. Are we headed to all out war between Christians and Muslins once again? If so, it really could be the end of the world as we know it. That's an ugly thought. Think I'll go and play some golf. Fore!

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by justjim

It's been a while but I "sort of kind of" remember reading about the Christian Crusades somewhere around 1099 (and a couple hundred years later I think) where the Pope promised eternal salvation to those who would war with the Muslins and take back the Holy Land. Yep, Christians and Muslins have been fighting for many many years. However, the stakes are a bit higher with modern warfare. It's one things to fight with sword and the use of horses, entirely something different with the weapons available today. Are we headed to all out war between Christians and Muslins once again? If so, it really could be the end of the world as we know it. That's an ugly thought. Think I'll go and play some golf. Fore!

while time has past and much has changed the intents of the past has not...proof positive Egypt today and the burning of christain churches and schools.
The intents have stood the test of time. It is obvious whatever weapons/destructive means is available to the likes of those in Egypt will be used to promote their cause.

The other advantage the Muslims have is the overly tolerant and permissive mode our country is in. The timid and the tolerant will be over run.

btk

[blueash]

Why has no one taken the time to mention the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Pastafarians yet? Oh I just did. May you be touched by his noodly appendage.

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See, discussions of religion need not degenerate into invective.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by billethkid

...

The other advantage the Muslims have is the overly tolerant and permissive mode our country is in. The timid and the tolerant will be over run.

btk

This is exactly right .. .just think about it strategically. If you have one side that is highly motivated to prevail, and the other is, as noted, overly tolerant and permissive ... which side will be successful? This is a pretty easy bet over time.

My prediction ... barring some type of "great awakening," secular Europe will, within the lifetime of our grandchildren, be largely converted to Islam. In other words, cathedrals will become mosques. It's a matter of demographics (higher birth rates, immigration) and the power of faith.

[Mallory Voice]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

You mean if we had one religion? In any event, Islam has a strict set of guidelines true but the flip side is it is fundamentally a violent religion. I know I will get a lot of "no, they're just like anyone else comments" but let's face it ... the have a LOT of radicals (percentage wise) in their faith compared to contemporary Christianity, Judaism, agnostics and scientologists etc. We all pretty much know that even if it's not PC to say it. People forget that Mohammed was a warrior ... and a very good one at that. The historical legacy is Islam was largely spread by the sword.

Take a very close look at the brotherhood's submachine guns in Egypt right now. Yeah.....that's a faith/religion you can believe in, right?!@#! Are you nuts? It was created by a man, for man, and nothing but man. They wouldn't know peace if it hit them in the face and it is postulated that this so called 'religion' will have its judgment day. Mark these words.
MV

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

When we all understand that what we see wrong with them is the differences we can start a dialogue. As long Christians and Muslims focus on our differences instead of what we can agree on, it will never end. We will say how do Muslim women tolerate their treatment and they say it is Gods will. You must be able to see why a devout Muslim looks at the way Christian woman dress and be totally freaked out. Their beliefs go back thousands of years before Christianity was brought into the world.

Actually it will end ... because the stronger and more motivated side will win and the other one will lose. That is pretty much the history of civilizations, ...growth, maturation and decline ...to be replaced by a more expansive civilization. Whether that's fair or unfair you can argue, but it just seems to be the way the world is.

Also, when you say Muslim beliefs go back "thousands of years before Christianity was brought into the world" ... that's not correct (assuming that's what you meant).

Islam is really an offshoot of Christianity and got its start roughly 600 years after Christ's time on earth. Islam's explosive success in the 7th and 8th centuries AD was brought about by military expansion and a successful warrior culture. That's really where the 72 virgins thing got its start as well and whoever came up with it was a genius. If you were uneducated and lived a miserable life in the Arabian desert, that motivator seemed to work very well because the Muslim armies were unstoppable for the better part of two centuries. Their Navy was pretty darn good too for that matter, something that's rarely mentioned.

[rubicon]

Muslim or Christian? Really! That question is actually being posed here?

One poster said there is one God. The problem with that statement is that there are probably 6 billion interpretations as to who that one God is because we all have our personal God. And there are millions upon millions of reasons we call upon him....or maybe yours is a her.

Radical Muslims have been fighting Christians from the 6th century intent on slaying every infidel. Look at the mass extermination of Coptic Christians that has been going on for a very long time and is on the rise in Egypt.

I become concerns when people present Christians as victimizing these folks.
History cuts as much as it kicks and so a balanced accounting of historical facts is required.

[Easyrider]

[QUOTE=Golfingnut;727161]:

Their beliefs go back thousands of years before Christianity was brought into the world.


The Facts Get In the Way of This Statement

Obviously some research is needed about how Muhammad was a self declared prophet at the urging of his wife after going to a cave and supposedly having a vision from a single angel Gabriel. He worked for his wife's company and only he and her proclaimed him a prophet 600 years + after the death and resurrection of Christ. To base an entire religion on the dreams of one man and his wife would be absurd but due to the violence many were forced to accept it or be killed and thus large numbers of people became followers.

Jesus Christ the Son Of God walked, lived, preached his gospel, set up his church, and gave his life for the our sins. His teaching and sayings were witnessed and written by many.


The New Testament consists of 27 books (or letters) which, for the most part, were written prior to the start of the second century (100 A.D.). The first four (the Gospels) contain written accounts of the teaching and ministry of Jesus Christ. The books which follow interpret Jesus' teaching and explain how to apply it to daily life.

It would appear that until about 50-60 A.D. there was no need for a written account of the Gospel. This is because the eyewitnesses were still living who could pass on the information first-hand. However, since the apostles were to grow old and pass away like everybody else, it later became necessary to have written accounts of the life of Jesus so that the facts would not get distorted with the passage of time. As a result, certain of the apostles and their associates penned the accounts we now have included as the four gospels.

Towards the end of the first century, it appears the four gospel accounts were gathered together into a single collection called "The Gospel". (The various accounts were distinguished by adding According to Matthew, According to Mark, etc.) At roughly the same time the letters written by the apostle Paul were also gathered together into a collection referred to as "The Apostle". While these collections represent the beginning of what eventually came to be regarded as the New Testament canon, they were not yet formally grouped together and designated as such.

In about 140 A.D., a man named Marcion arrived in Rome and began preaching a distorted version of the teachings included in The Gospel and The Apostle. This movement grew to such an extent that the Christian church leaders saw the necessity to more clearly formalize the distinction between what was and was not authoritative scripture. This led to the formalization of the list of writings considered authoritative by the Christian church (the New Testament canon).


Muhammad*: 570-632 AD

Born in about 570 CE into a respected Quraysh family of Mecca, Muhammad grew up with fair and upright character and earned the nickname "al-Amin" (Arabic: الامين), meaning "the Faithful".[7][8] At the age of 40 in 610 CE, Muhammad received his first verbal revelation in a cave named Mount Hira. This was the beginning of the descent of the Quran that continued up to the end of his life; and Muhammad was asked by God, as the Muslims hold, to preach the "oneness of God" in order to stamp out idolatry, a practice overtly present in the then Arab society.[9][10] Because of persecution on the newly converted Muslims, and upon the invitation of a delegation from Medina (then known as Yathrib), Muhammad and his followers migrated to Medina in 622 CE, an event known as Hijra (in Latin: Hegira).[11][12] A turning point in Muhammad’s life, this Hijra also marks the beginning of Islamic calendar. In Medina, Muhammad sketched out the Constitution of Medina specifying the rights of and relations among the various existing communities there, formed an independent Muslim community (Ummah), and managed to established the first Islamic state.[13] Despite the ongoing hostilities of the Meccans, Muhammad, along with his followers, took the control of Mecca in 630 CE., .[14] In later years in Medina, the Islamic Prophet Muhammad unified the different Arab tribes under Islam,[15] carried out social and religious reforms,[16] and made administrative developments that further consolidated the Islamic community.[17] Before he passed away in 632, his teachings won him the acceptance of Islam of almost all the tribes of Arabian Peninsula.[18]

Born Muḥammad ibn `Abd Allāh
c. 570
Mecca (Makkah), Arabia
(now Saudi Arabia)
Died 8 June 632 (aged 62)
Yathrib, Arabia (present-day Medina, Hejaz, Saudi Arabia)
Resting place Tomb under the Green Dome of Al-Masjid al-Nabawi in Medina, Hejaz, Saudi Arabia
Other names Abu al-Qasim (Kunya),
Also see Names of Muhammad
Ethnicity Arab
Religion Islam
Spouse(s) Wives: Khadijah bint Khuwaylid (595–619)
Sawda bint Zamʿa (619–632)
Aisha bint Abi Bakr (619–632)
Hafsa bint Umar (624–632)
Zaynab bint Khuzayma (625–627)
Hind bint Abi Umayya (629–632)
Zaynab bint Jahsh (627–632)
Juwayriya bint al-Harith (628–632)
Ramlah bint Abi Sufyan (628–632)
Rayhana bint Zayd (629–631)
Safiyya bint Huyayy (629–632)
Maymuna bint al-Harith (630–632)
Maria al-Qibtiyya (630–632)

[charlie_marie]

You DO NOT have to go to church or believe in any god to be a good person with morals . That all I have to say about that .

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by charlie_marie

You DO NOT have to go to church or believe in any god to be a good person with morals . That all I have to say about that .

Well said and no one is saying you have to go to church. I know many people with exemplary morals who never go to church ... including my ex-wife