[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Jack58033

The Japanese play violent video games but it does not correlate to gun violence. They make it hard to get guns.They don't have a fraction of the guns we have.

Right, the problem is the easy availability of MAN-killing GUNS in the US. Other countries have solved this problem. The US need-NOT be a country where children FEAR to go to school. And adults fear going to church or to get groceries!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jdulej

You note one of many examples of how humans find a way to take an object and subvert it to satisfy a desire the object was never intended for. Two I can think of in my half awake state are 1) Tylenol. The original was much more effective than today's version, but also could easily be broken down to provide a key ingredient for Speed. 2) Cocaine. 100+ years ago, this was in every households' medicine cabinet until society decided it shouldn't be.
In the above two cases, and all the others I have thought about, the "solution" has been to ban or change the object, NOT to expect people to stop subverting the object to fit their needs. This will happen to the semi auto as well eventually. The generation that is so hung up on the 2nd amendment in all its various interpretations is dying out, and the younger folks have better things to do with their time.
People who think they need to closet full of guns to protect them for "The Man" don't realize that they already lost that battle - society has already been molded to fit the fascist model - the 1 or 2% own and control everything, the middle 70% do all the work and get thrown a bone from time to time (that's us), and the rest get blamed for everything and keep the middle group dumb and happy.
All we can do until the day comes when this model falls apart (they all do eventually) is work around the edges to enjoy life.

That post and especially the last paragraph were very inciteful. Kudos. And to add just a minor point I believe that when Coca-Cola was 1st bottled, it contained cocaine. Maybe that's why there were fewer mass murders then??????

[Lindsyburnsy]

You mean the culture of not owning guns?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That post and especially the last paragraph was very inciteful. Kudos. And to add just a minor point I believe that when Coca-Cola was 1st bottled, it contained cocaine. Maybe that's why there were fewer mass murders then??????

Great idea, lets legalize cocaine, and put it in the water supply - boost productivity too.

(j/k) It's a joke son, just a joke.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

That is exactly how Hitler came to power, voted into office by the citizens of Germany. And, once he became the Fuhrer, he enacted gun control laws that removed guns from the hands of the German people and the Jews. We all know what happened to the Jews.

Yes, agreed. How people vote determines very important directions taken by people and their countries. You can vote for a dictator or you can vote against them and keep them out of power. My main point is that SOMETHING is brewing up in the US right now. The BIG INCREASE in US GUN OWNERSHIP in the last 2 years has me WORRIED. There is NOT a big increase in deer hunters or target shooters - there is SOMETHING else going on here. And I worry that it is DARK and SINISTER!
..........At the January 6th attempted OVERTHROW of the US government, you could see many flags. One of the most prominent flags had an image of a military-style AR-15-looking rifle. This has become the defacto SYMBOL of the dark proud-boy-type anarchy-oriented sick insurrectionists. Jan 6th PORTENDS a situation where citizens will have to choose between having a DEMOCRACY and NOT a dictatorship - OR having a strict interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and LOVING the proud-boy-anarchist and their SYMBOL of HATE and children's blood.......the AR killing machine.
..........you decide!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

List of Roman emperors - Wikipedia

Our Founding Fathers were familiar with Greek and Roman history and could see that if a rotten emperor controlled the military he or she could stay in power but as soon as they lost that connection the military put in a new leader. It happened multiple times in some years.

Year of the Four Emperors - Wikipedia

Year of the Five Emperors - Wikipedia

Barracks emperor - Wikipedia

Our military leaders seem very careful not to get the Army, Navy, etc. involved in politics such as it would lead to so many civil wars like in Rome and sometimes in Ancient Greece.

And I worry about our current all-volunteer army. I would prefer that 20% of the military be drafted. I think that would give more stability to the military and lessen the chance of a US military takeover of government.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Yes, agreed. How people vote determines very important directions taken by people and their countries. You can vote for a dictator or you can vote against them and keep them out of power. My main point is that SOMETHING is brewing up in the US right now. The BIG INCREASE in US GUN OWNERSHIP in the last 2 years has me WORRIED. There is NOT a big increase in deer hunters or target shooters - there is SOMETHING else going on here. And I worry that it is DARK and SINISTER!
..........At the January 6th attempted OVERTHROW of the US government, you could see many flags. One of the most prominent flags had an image of a military-style AR-15-looking rifle. This has become the defacto SYMBOL of the dark proud-boy-type anarchy-oriented sick insurrectionists. Jan 6th PORTENDS a situation where citizens will have to choose between having a DEMOCRACY and NOT a dictatorship - OR having a strict interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and LOVING the proud-boy-anarchist and their SYMBOL of HATE and children's blood.......the AR killing machine.
..........you decide!

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by drducat

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said.

And of them the arming teachers is the one I disagree with most. That is a recipe for disaster in so many ways. Including a mass exodus of teachers, and teachers killing students as a teacher with NO active shooter confrontation experience attempts to stop an adrenaline enraged teenager wielding 2 semi-automatics , by shooting them.

And if good-guys with a gun are the solution, why does the NRA require guns carried by the attendee's? Oh, right that mean old stupid Secret Service wont let them make the meeting safe. Yeah, right that makes sense. The secret service is the bad guy there.

And "defund the police" is maybe the worst comment a DEM ever made. It is a mischaracterization of what was meant. And most people KNOW it, and yes continue to repeat it. Defund the Police was a stupid saying for a great idea. Let police do police work, and stop sending them on domestic violence, mentally ill issue, parking tickets, speeding tickets and all the others BS they are required to do, and are funded to do. They should be focusing on police work, stopping and catching criminals. They should be focusing on stopping shooters. They should NOT be focused on giving out parking tickets and tickets for changing lanes without using your turn signal. That is what was meant - let police do police work, and move some of the funds paying for that work into funding meter-maids and traffic enforcement. Send people that are trained to handle confrontations with the mentally ill, and on and on.

But instead DEFUND THE POLICE one of the more stupid things a DEM ever said because the rallying cry of the opposition. So , n ow instead of making useful changes we can all sit around and argue every time someone bring it up again - out of context.

[Normal]

You know, the haphazard raising of our youth hasn’t helped the situation much. Columbine wasn’t the first shooting, but it was the first in a very long time. Since 1999, we have had several copy the idea. Klebold and Harris didn’t even use AR 15s because they weren’t cool back then. However, they did mimic their favorite shoot ‘em up game (Doom) trench coats and all.

If American kids keep getting that garbage pumped through their minds, things will likely get worse. Raising our kids with television and video games that glorify killing may not be the answer and could by chance, contribute to our problems.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Normal

You know, the haphazard raising of our youth hasn’t helped the situation much. Columbine wasn’t the first shooting, but it was the first in a very long time. Since 1999, we have had several copy the idea. Klebold and Harris didn’t even use AR 15s because they wear cool back then. However, they did mimic their favorite shoot ‘em up game (Doom” trench coats and all.

If American kids keep getting that garbage pumped through their minds, things will likely get worse. Raising our kids with television and video games that glorify killing may not be the answer and could by chance, contribute to our problems.

Well, right idea, but, in my humble opinion, wrong cause.

The rest of the world also watches TV and Movies and plays silent video games. No other country has had one 20 school shootings this year.

But, it is our society, our culture. I agree. Guns are not the problem, they are a symptom and an easy solution for those looking to express their anger, frustration and to get some token of notoriety.

Some think the breakdown in American Society is a result of the Bible being taken out of "our lives". I disagree. I think it is that until around the 1970's single wage earners could make living wage to support their family. Today that is pretty much gone. In most families both parents (or the one parent) have to work. Often far more than 40 hours a week just to get by, no chance of "getting ahead". Prior to the 70's most parents focused on making a better life for their children - that included good work ethic example, some that loved them around all day to give comfort when they needed it, and an optimism that some day they kids would have better live than they did.

For MOST families today, that is not the dream, the dream is now, to be able to buy food and medication. To be able to pay the rent, not have the electricity turned off. And HOPE to god they don't get called in to the school to get the kid and take them home, because that is lost time at work and the chance they won't make it to next pay day - again.

Then add in all the anger and hate spewed by media and people look for someone to blame and which ever side the find closest to their beliefs that latch onto and begin hating the other side.

We USED to be Americans. Now we are one of two sides and it is out patriotic duty (we are told 24 hours a day) to HATE the other side.

That I believe to be the root cause. The loss of hope for a better future.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

They had a huge jungle and were very adept at guerrilla warfare. Guerrilla warfare - Wikipedia

History of guerrilla warfare - Wikipedia

And the US was restricted above demilitarized zone and surrounding counties. We had limited war and VC didn’t. Our strategy was loser from the beginning and IMO we should NEVER had our soldiers step one foot VN ground. IMO same with Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Well, right idea, but, in my humble opinion, wrong cause.

The rest of the world also watches TV and Movies and plays silent video games. No other country has had one 20 school shootings this year.

But, it is our society, our culture. I agree. Guns are not the problem, they are a symptom and an easy solution for those looking to express their anger, frustration and to get some token of notoriety.

Some think the breakdown in American Society is a result of the Bible being taken out of "our lives". I disagree. I think it is that until around the 1970's single wage earners could make living wage to support their family. Today that is pretty much gone. In most families both parents (or the one parent) have to work. Often far more than 40 hours a week just to get by, no chance of "getting ahead". Prior to the 70's most parents focused on making a better life for their children - that included good work ethic example, some that loved them around all day to give comfort when they needed it, and an optimism that some day they kids would have better live than they did.

For MOST families today, that is not the dream, the dream is now, to be able to buy food and medication. To be able to pay the rent, not have the electricity turned off. And HOPE to god they don't get called in to the school to get the kid and take them home, because that is lost time at work and the chance they won't make it to next pay day - again.

Then add in all the anger and hate spewed by media and people look for someone to blame and which ever side the find closest to their beliefs that latch onto and begin hating the other side.

We USED to be Americans. Now we are one of two sides and it is out patriotic duty (we are told 24 hours a day) to HATE the other side.

That I believe to be the root cause. The loss of hope for a better future.

Mostly agree.

You can say rest of world, but really don’t know, and they don’t have freedom or population of USA. So like my opinion it’s just you’re opinion.

IMO What you get with two party system, us or them, with that system it will never change when power and money involved.

I am for reasonable gun control/magazine control. IMO no high powered rifle (centerfire) should hold more than 4 rounds and no handgun (centerfire) more than 6 rounds.

Actually I don’t see need for anything to hold more than 6 rounds. Including my PCP air rifle. But, that’s my opinion.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by drducat

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

I think that I will put this post into the "undecided" column.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said.

And of them the arming teachers is the one I disagree with most. That is a recipe for disaster in so many ways. Including a mass exodus of teachers, and teachers killing students as a teacher with NO active shooter confrontation experience attempts to stop an adrenaline enraged teenager wielding 2 semi-automatics , by shooting them.

And if good-guys with a gun are the solution, why does the NRA require guns carried by the attendee's? Oh, right that mean old stupid Secret Service wont let them make the meeting safe. Yeah, right that makes sense. The secret service is the bad guy there.

And "defund the police" is maybe the worst comment a DEM ever made. It is a mischaracterization of what was meant. And most people KNOW it, and yes continue to repeat it. Defund the Police was a stupid saying for a great idea. Let police do police work, and stop sending them on domestic violence, mentally ill issue, parking tickets, speeding tickets and all the others BS they are required to do, and are funded to do. They should be focusing on police work, stopping and catching criminals. They should be focusing on stopping shooters. They should NOT be focused on giving out parking tickets and tickets for changing lanes without using your turn signal. That is what was meant - let police do police work, and move some of the funds paying for that work into funding meter-maids and traffic enforcement. Send people that are trained to handle confrontations with the mentally ill, and on and on.

But instead DEFUND THE POLICE one of the more stupid things a DEM ever said because the rallying cry of the opposition. So , n ow instead of making useful changes we can all sit around and argue every time someone bring it up again - out of context.

And God thinks, "Himmmm maybe dinosaurs WOULD be less violent than a human being with an AR-15 ????????

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

And God thinks, "Himmmm maybe dinosaurs WOULD be less violent than a human being with an AR-15 ????????

Hint: I am an Atheist.

Dynosaurs were killed off by a meteor strike. Humans are going to do it to themselves.