[jdulej]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Crazies will find a way. Sorry to say the world is full of crazies.

You are right, the world is full of crazies, but for some reason the vast, vast majority of crazies who actually do "find a way" are in the good old USA. Do we have smarter crazies? Or do we make is so easy for them to "find a way" that even the dumbest of the crazies manages with few, if any, issues.

Scrolling through the hundreds of comments, the theme I see most often from the gun supporters is "it's not guns, it's mental health, deal with the actual problem". What I don't get is why the objection to keeping guns (or at least high capacity, mass slaughter type guns) out of the hands of folks with mental health issues until such time as they are "cured" or deemed not at a dangerous level of crazy. Yet, even suggesting that is greeted with howls of "2nd Amendment!, 2nd Amendment".
I'm left with the feeling that what gun supporters really want done is nothing. They are fine with a little collateral damage now and then, they’ll shed a couple crocodile tears as long as they can keep their shiny toys.

[villager7591]

TJ; our best president. His main worry was Government control. He was worried about the Federal Government becoming too big, too powerful.
We are there !

[Keefelane66]

America: Home of well-regulated women and barely-regulated guns.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by jdulej

You are right, the world is full of crazies, but for some reason the vast, vast majority of crazies who actually do "find a way" are in the good old USA. Do we have smarter crazies? Or do we make is so easy for them to "find a way" that even the dumbest of the crazies manages with few, if any, issues.

Scrolling through the hundreds of comments, the theme I see most often from the gun supporters is "it's not guns, it's mental health, deal with the actual problem". What I don't get is why the objection to keeping guns (or at least high capacity, mass slaughter type guns) out of the hands of folks with mental health issues until such time as they are "cured" or deemed not at a dangerous level of crazy. Yet, even suggesting that is greeted with howls of "2nd Amendment!, 2nd Amendment".
I'm left with the feeling that what gun supporters really want done is nothing. They are fine with a little collateral damage now and then, they’ll shed a couple crocodile tears as long as they can keep their shiny toys.

The problem is , just who is unstable to the point of being denied the ownership of weapons, over the years we have seen more and more disturbed people wandering the streets,, progress?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

The problem is , just who is unstable to the point of being denied the ownership of weapons, over the years we have seen more and more disturbed people wandering the streets,, progress?

I will go one step further, restricting any rights to anyone with a mental illness is the very definition of a slippery slope. Who gets to decide. And what is mental illness?

And every time the Administration changes parties we get another swing in "rights".

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by spd2918

Not true all, and even if it were, firing on full auto greatly reduces accuracy. Have you ever fired one? I have. Good luck staying on target.

But please tell us how many school shooters used fully automatic military weapons.

When you're shooting into a crowd and hoping to hit as many people as possible with no singular target in mind, then accuracy doesn't matter much.

The more shots you can fire in a short period of time, the more likely you'll hit a lot of people. That's why these weapons are the weapons of choice for *mass shooters*. As opposed to - rocks, knives, single-shot rifles and pistols, 6-shooters, crossbows, baseball bats, a car, or a chainsaw (for example).

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by Jack58033

The Japanese play violent video games but it does not correlate to gun violence. They make it hard to get guns.They don't have a fraction of the guns we have. They don't have a percent of the deaths we have and no dead children in schools.

The Japanese don't have nearly the amount of freedom that we do. Stop and frisk is common, as are home searches. Possession of cannabis has a jail sentence of up to five years for the first offense. Authorities can detain a suspect for up to three weeks without charges. A lot of people confess before they are told what the charges are. The conviction rate of those prosecuted exceeds 99%. Japan pretty much leads the world in human trafficking.

For what it's worth, the 2021 Fentanyl overdose death count of 14 to 18 years old was about 800.
For the category of 18 to 45 years old the Fentanyl death count was 64,178.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

When you're shooting into a crowd and hoping to hit as many people as possible with no singular target in mind, then accuracy doesn't matter much.

The more shots you can fire in a short period of time, the more likely you'll hit a lot of people. That's why these weapons are the weapons of choice for *mass shooters*. As opposed to - rocks, knives, single-shot rifles and pistols, 6-shooters, crossbows, baseball bats, a car, or a chainsaw (for example).

The worst school related mass murder in the USA is still the 1927 bombing in Bath, MI.

The astoundingly, incredibly, overwhelming high count of rampage killings at any school worldwide is 65 since 1913, with about 589 deaths in total. That's 211 fewer deaths than the count of kids aged 14 to 18 who died due to a Fentanyl overdose in one year alone.

List of school massacres by death toll - Wikipedia

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I will go one step further, restricting any rights to anyone with a mental illness is the very definition of a slippery slope. Who gets to decide. And what is mental illness?

And every time the Administration changes parties we get another swing in "rights".

Hindsight to be sure, but I don't think too many people would argue that these mass shooters have to have something very wrong with them,, how to predict with any accuracy,, but then as I have pointed out this is historically a relatively new phenomenon, what has changed ?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by biker1

All? Really? I didn't know you were a gunsmith. Regardless, please stop with the strawman arguments. Feel free to argue against facts with someone else.

Sorry, I don't see the point of the argument against my statement. I stand by it. Semi-autos can be easily converted to full automatic.
...........Regardless, it is normally better in a battle to squeeze off a WELL-AIMED shot than to spray shots around on automatic. I know a man that was on patrol in dense jungle in Viet Nam - it was a tense time because enemy forces were assumed to be in the area. His rifle was set on full auto and he heard a loud noise in front of him. He pointed his weapon at the source of the noise and pulled the trigger. The result was a nice Pheasant to eat back at the base.
..........I am NOT sure if this example shows the value of full-automatic or the opposite.

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I will go one step further, restricting any rights to anyone with a mental illness is the very definition of a slippery slope. Who gets to decide. And what is mental illness?

And every time the Administration changes parties we get another swing in "rights".

I was rooting around in google trying to see if background checks include events from when a person was a minor. No luck with that search so far. I was wondering because it seemed to me that running a background check on someone 2 days over 18 was pretty pointless unless the check includes events going back to the person's minor years. Anyway, I did see this:

"The NICS has conducted more than 300 million checks since launching in 1998, leading to over 3 million denials.

The following groups are currently prohibited from owning guns:

Convicted felons
People under federal domestic restraining orders
People convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence crimes against victims they have been married to, lived with, or had a child with
People committed to a mental-health facility, or a court ruled were mentally unfit
Fugitives
People convicted of drug crimes or determined to by a court to be addicted to an illegal controlled substance"

The devil, of course, is in the details. For example, the domestic violence check seems to be fine with someone beating the crap out of their girlfriend or boyfriend, just not their wife or husband.
Also, the Mental Health category is very squishy with poor record keeping and reporting.

It appears that much of the infrastructure is in place to block sales to mentally ill individuals, it's just not being executed very well. Plus, my initial point holds. It's unlikely that the most crazy, homicidal maniac would have a record in the database if they are only 18 by 2 days!

Personally, I think applicants should have to prove they are not mentally ill, rather than the other way round as it is today. Mass Killing is mostly a one and done type of crime, as the perp usually takes the cowards way out or lets the cops do it for him/her.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

I'm pretty confident that any non-biased person that compares the US to the other G7 countries in school shootings can tell what the cause is. The US is over 50x higher per capita than the other G7 countries combined in school shootings.

There's literally one main difference between the US and those other countries.

Yes. I have been trying to argue FOR that point. It IS a STATISTICAL fact. But, here we have facts overwhelmed by EMOTIONS and propaganda repeated by the NRA. Emotions are a POWERFUL factor in winning an argument - they can beat facts, often in the short term.
.........I wonder how often children and adults have to die in mass murders or get hurt in mass shootings before the FACTS and the SOLUTION sink into the American ethos?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

I am waiting to hear how the conspiracy works between the NRA and the GREEDY manufactures to induce so many to buy "MANKILLERS" "WEAPONS OF WAR"

Well, that's EXACTLY how it developed. It's not even a conspiracy between the NRA and the GUN manufacturers. The NRA is obviously in bed with the GUN makers - the NRA is the MOUTHPIECE of the GUN makers. I WAS an NRA member until 1967 when their magazine started getting devoted to "weapons of war" and military-style semi-autos. Gone were articles on upland game hunting and best rifles for hunting in thick woods and what was best for hunting on the Western plains - what was best for Alaska.
..........The majority of the NRA magazine articles became about military weapons and their accessories. I finally realized that US citizens began to hunt less so shotguns and bolt-action deer rifles were becoming less profitable. The gun makers began to VIRTUALLY make up their own (more profitable) market by using near propaganda advertisements that tended to equate masculinity and patriotism with the AR 15 style weapons and 30 round banana mags.
..........Most states at that time required deer hunting to be done with magazines of 5 rounds or less. I believe that Ohio required deer and bear hunting with shotguns - which were considered safer than rifles. I don't know if that has been changed. Myself, I think it would be a little humorous to see some fool hunting deer with a 30-round mag. It would be constantly hung up on tree branches as the hunter moved. There was an old saying, "one shot, one deer, but 3 shots, no deer".
..........The Jan 6th insurrection showed how powerful IS the symbolic connection between pseudo-macho-patriotism and the many flags of the insurgents that glorified military-style AR-15s. NRA propaganda had won that day in the distorted minds of the participants.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jdulej

If Canada's last mass slaughter was last year, I'd say they are already doing a heck of a lot better than the US is.

Agreed !

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

America: Home of well-regulated women and barely-regulated guns.

Nice. Good one! Kudos !