[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

America: Home of well-regulated women and barely-regulated guns.

On our way to the "Handmaid's Tale"!

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

You keep saying the same thing over and over. When I do that people seem to get upset.

Oh well.

Do you have ANY suggestions on how to reduce the number of kids murdered every year?

I agree banning ANY guns will not work and banning all guns will not work. So, I have posted several detailed suggestions on what I think would help.

I would appreciate hearing what you think will help. Stopping the cause is not an answer, since we do not yet know the cause. So, what can we do while we try to find the cause and fix it?

I agree with you. Harden the schools. Even a ten foot fence around the school with an armed security officer at the gate would probably discourage a killing. Of course, then they would just go to a movie theater, church, shopping mall, etc. At least the kids would be safe for a while. At least until they got older.

Yes, I do repeat myself when someone else says the same thing that someone else has said about the subject.

More restricting laws just keeps the good citizens honest while taking away a bit more of their freedom and liberty. It doesn't solve the problem, the mentally unstable. And I would rather an occasional unstable running amok than confined security with no option for our own safety.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Not very nice to say that I am on a "drug-induced " fantasy. I would NEVER, never say that about you or anyone on TOTV. I am NOT for taking away GUNS designed for hunting, targets, or home protection. I am against the NRA and greedy manufacturers that have (through propaganda) moved shooters AWAY from sportsman-type rifles and TOWARD selling weapons of WAR to CIVILIANS. Think about that........it makes no sense.......it is a CON JOB by the manufacturers and the NRA. They make the profits and the average people in America get shot buying groceries and their children die and bleed at school.
........I would rather live with a bolt action to defend my home than have excessive weapons of WAR circulating in society. But, I know it is too late. I just want to be on record as saying that it does not HAVE to be this way. And it WILL get worse. And I don't want to hear the childish propaganda about "a good guy with a gun " and that "slippery slope" sing-song crap!

Sorry if you took that as aimed at you. Not meant that way. The use of "you" was not meant for any particular person, and I could have just as easily used the word "they" in it's place. I will go back an edit that so that you won't be offended, which is not what I intended. I am sure you know that if intended, I could use much more descriptive verbiage.

[Taltarzac725]

Serving Rural America — Rural Minds

There are a lot of resources for helping the mentally ill online and other places. There is still a huge stigma attached to asking for help which does stop some people from doing so.

I was elated last night when they did a tribute to a soldier lost on a different battlefield. He had committed suicide due to depression. This tragedy told on the Memorial Day Concert done by Gary Sinise and others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb88V9dEoGs

National Memorial Day Concert | PBS

Make a Donation | Gary Sinise Foundation

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Not very nice to say that I am on a "drug-induced " fantasy. I would NEVER, never say that about you or anyone on TOTV. I am NOT for taking away GUNS designed for hunting, targets, or home protection. I am against the NRA and greedy manufacturers that have (through propaganda) moved shooters AWAY from sportsman-type rifles and TOWARD selling weapons of WAR to CIVILIANS. Think about that........it makes no sense.......it is a CON JOB by the manufacturers and the NRA. They make the profits and the average people in America get shot buying groceries and their children die and bleed at school.
........I would rather live with a bolt action to defend my home than have excessive weapons of WAR circulating in society. But, I know it is too late. I just want to be on record as saying that it does not HAVE to be this way. And it WILL get worse. And I don't want to hear the childish propaganda about "a good guy with a gun " and that "slippery slope" sing-song crap!

And so you say my comment is "childish?" That's OK, I don't take offense easily. Unfortunately, folks that do not wish to be reasonable will discount FACT such as the FACT that over a Million people were saved last year when a GOOD person with a gun intervened. But, they can continue to live in their own world of disbelief.

Why have a bolt action rifle for self defense in your home anyway, when you can have a handgun that is more efficient in your self defense?

I agree that it is too late to do anything about the amount of guns in America. And in my opinion (childish?? ha,ha) that is because of how lenient the courts have become and how rampant robberies and assaults have become. People know that it's true that when seconds count, help is minutes away.

Ronny Reagan once said: "Because you won't get gun control by disarming law abiding citizens. There's only one way to get real gun control: Disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up, and if you don't actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time.
Another of many:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, ALL semi-automatics can be EASILY modified to fully automatic. And they are closer to Man-killers or weapons of war than a bolt-action, lever, or pump-action deer hunter.

Hmm, I would like to know what experience you base your statement upon. I carried a shotgun in Vietnam and it was very effective in jungle fighting. I also carried one as a COP in my car. I also trained and carried a bolt action rifle for sniper use, professionally. It is unlawful to modify a weapon to make it fully automatic. Even bump stock operation was not outlawed in the past because it was not considered a fully automatic operation.

Sometimes people speak out about things they have heard without the benefit of experience.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I was rooting around in google trying to see if background checks include events from when a person was a minor. No luck with that search so far. I was wondering because it seemed to me that running a background check on someone 2 days over 18 was pretty pointless unless the check includes events going back to the person's minor years. Anyway, I did see this:

"The NICS has conducted more than 300 million checks since launching in 1998, leading to over 3 million denials.

The following groups are currently prohibited from owning guns:

Convicted felons
People under federal domestic restraining orders
People convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence crimes against victims they have been married to, lived with, or had a child with
People committed to a mental-health facility, or a court ruled were mentally unfit
Fugitives
People convicted of drug crimes or determined to by a court to be addicted to an illegal controlled substance"

The devil, of course, is in the details. For example, the domestic violence check seems to be fine with someone beating the crap out of their girlfriend or boyfriend, just not their wife or husband.
Also, the Mental Health category is very squishy with poor record keeping and reporting.

It appears that much of the infrastructure is in place to block sales to mentally ill individuals, it's just not being executed very well. Plus, my initial point holds. It's unlikely that the most crazy, homicidal maniac would have a record in the database if they are only 18 by 2 days!

Personally, I think applicants should have to prove they are not mentally ill, rather than the other way round as it is today. Mass Killing is mostly a one and done type of crime, as the perp usually takes the cowards way out or lets the cops do it for him/her.

Selective enforcement is a problem.

My previous wife experienced domestic violence and reported it. Nothing happened. She finally took her kids and escaped to a shelter. Her husband at the time got ****ed, and bought a rifle. Why if that significant? He was a convicted felon and he had no problem buying a gun.

So much for “rules” doing any good. Children are dying. How about some plan to do something to slow down the dying.

Lots of posts about how important it is to own a gun, few post on how to actually some something to just help.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Hmm, I would like to know what experience you base your statement upon. I carried a shotgun in Vietnam and it was very effective in jungle fighting. I also carried one as a COP in my car. I also trained and carried a bolt action rifle for sniper use, professionally. It is unlawful to modify a weapon to make it fully automatic. Even bump stock operation was not outlawed in the past because it was not considered a fully automatic operation.

Sometimes people speak out about things they have heard without the benefit of experience.

I don’t know why it being unlawful to do something is going to help reduce the murders. I don’t think it is lawful to murder 19 children, but he did.

Debating legalities is not going to lead to a solution, even though I agree with your point it doesn’t help.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Jack58033

The Japanese play violent video games but it does not correlate to gun violence. They make it hard to get guns.They don't have a fraction of the guns we have. They don't have a percent of the deaths we have and no dead children in schools.

I don't disagree with your statement but I will add this. I have lived in Japan twice in my lifetime. Japan has just about the population of half our country from the Mississippi river to the West coast. All those folks are packed into a country Island about the size of California. They are so crowded that the use of a long rifle is almost impossible. It is so crowded that when I rode their trains, passengers were literally packed/pushed into the train cars so that the doors could close. They also have a totally different culture than we do and have a great bit of respect for each other. Ever heard the expression "save face?"

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Hindsight to be sure, but I don't think too many people would argue that these mass shooters have to have something very wrong with them,, how to predict with any accuracy,, but then as I have pointed out this is historically a relatively new phenomenon, what has changed ?

As I have mentioned before, the answer is that US gun ownership went from 300 to 400 million in the last 2 years. That answers, why Mass Murders are increasing. Now the question is WHY that big increase (about 15% per year) in US GUN ownership. Somehow (?) the social fabric togetherness is unraveling?
..........One thing I know, Russia and China are happy about the US unraveling! The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, The 3% ers, and other anarchists are overjoyed !
...........Another thing I know is that the US being the 1st world's leader in wealth disparity does NOT make a society MORE stable. The average person sees the problem when the top 1% ers keep getting wealthier. Jeff Bezos's yacht is about 4 football fields long, with a separate baby yacht to land his girlfriend's helicopter. Elon Musk has done a few strange things. A tax base that helped resurrect the middle class is needed today before things get LESS stable.
........Another thing - the near future (now until 2026) looks pretty dire and unpredictable. I wish the US had 100% of its citizens vote like Australia does! We have a lot to lose!

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Sorry, I don't see the point of the argument against my statement. I stand by it. Semi-autos can be easily converted to full automatic.
...........Regardless, it is normally better in a battle to squeeze off a WELL-AIMED shot than to spray shots around on automatic. I know a man that was on patrol in dense jungle in Viet Nam - it was a tense time because enemy forces were assumed to be in the area. His rifle was set on full auto and he heard a loud noise in front of him. He pointed his weapon at the source of the noise and pulled the trigger. The result was a nice Pheasant to eat back at the base.
..........I am NOT sure if this example shows the value of full-automatic or the opposite.

Yes, yes, I saw that movie.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I agree with you. Harden the schools. Even a ten foot fence around the school with an armed security officer at the gate would probably discourage a killing. Of course, then they would just go to a movie theater, church, shopping mall, etc. At least the kids would be safe for a while. At least until they got older.

Yes, I do repeat myself when someone else says the same thing that someone else has said about the subject.

More restricting laws just keeps the good citizens honest while taking away a bit more of their freedom and liberty. It doesn't solve the problem, the mentally unstable. And I would rather an occasional unstable running amok than confined security with no option for our own safety.

The "OCCASIONAL UNSTABLE" seems to be becoming more and more the norm. We don't have a stable 1950s society today so we need new SOLUTIONS (safety from guns) similar to what other G7 countries have done. WE are falling
behind other countries due to our own stubbornness and glorification of the Western Frontier, rugged individualism, the macho GUN culture, and the AR 15 as a SYMBOL of something (?) emotional.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Sorry if you took that as aimed at you. Not meant that way. The use of "you" was not meant for any particular person, and I could have just as easily used the word "they" in it's place. I will go back an edit that so that you won't be offended, which is not what I intended. I am sure you know that if intended, I could use much more descriptive verbiage.

That was kind of a yeah / boo apology. Sort of blames me a 2nd time. Wonderful, so contrite.
........I thought that was what was wrong with the country? No one takes individual responsibility for anything.
........But, I will let it go as just an agree to disagree situation.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Hmm, I would like to know what experience you base your statement upon. I carried a shotgun in Vietnam and it was very effective in jungle fighting. I also carried one as a COP in my car. I also trained and carried a bolt action rifle for sniper use, professionally. It is unlawful to modify a weapon to make it fully automatic. Even bump stock operation was not outlawed in the past because it was not considered a fully automatic operation.

Sometimes people speak out about things they have heard without the benefit of experience.

Yes, a shotgun IS useful to a limited extent in close quarters-type military situations. But, it is NOT the STANDARD issue for the majority of Army troops. And shotguns are very useful to Police.

[jebartle]

For the poster that suggest I go live in Japan, is a perfect example of the intolerance for ANY suggestions to stop this violence. Let's pull together as AMERICANS and solve this. REALLY REALLY lock schools (obviously this Texas school needs correction, if we see SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING and to lighten this post, I hope it's possible on such a serious subject, just sell guns, NO AMMO, giggle