Wishful thinking will NOT drive the hands of time backward. We need to confront the problem as it exists today (Robb Elementry being an example). US gun ownership has gone up 30 % in the last 2 years. When we determine what is CAUSING that and DO SOMETHING about it, life will begin to return to the less violent 1950s days.
........Canada is TRYING to do something. The US is NOT trying.

A.I. and Robotics are coming whether anyone likes it or NOT. SOCIETY must ADJUST. Just like society adjusted from the horse and buggy to the automobile.

Thank you for your personal attack, in fact it was a pro-gun/anti-gun control poster that first brought up plastic guns as a way around gun controls. Funny how he was not accused of trolling.

So, I will just change plastic gun to bat or knife will get through which we have been assured are just as deadly as guns

Oh please, there is no revolution being planned!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist or an IQ above that of a stupid chimpanzee to figure out what is going on. People are scared about rising violent crime and the government's inability or intentional reluctance to prosecute criminals to fullest extent of the law.

:bigbow:

Agreed, And people robbing convince stores are so stupid. I was standing in front of almost $30K in cigarettes - that were not locked. But, they would ask for the cash in the drawer, even thought there are signs saying only $50 in the drawer.

Back up to the door, load up the truck and back seat and head for your local fence and make $10,000 easily. But, no kill a person instead over $50 cash.

I agree with you about "the revolution" - that's just a right wing wet dream. But, just who is everyone afraid of? On my little 3 block street here in TV there are at least 75-100 AR15s sitting in people's closets. Very few who have one have just one. They take them down to Shooter's World and pay another small fortune to blast away for a while, so they are good and ready for something. They have been told that that TV is a "soft target" (whatever that means) - more like TV is full of gullible old fools.

Or maybe for some of us shooting is simply a hobby. Some people enjoy knocking a little white ball into a cup, while others like to poke holes in paper. I know for some of you it’s hard to understand, but not everyone with a gun is crazy.

There is some merit to that argument. My opinion is that RISING violent crime was happening in the 1990s and it is ONLY in the last 2 years that we have that 30% rise in GUN ownership. Something else is going on. Also, the court system has been jammed up since, at least, the 1990s. Also, the US has the world's MOST incarcerated % of people - that is not new.
........I put out my theory about the 30% GUN rise. Which is the EMOTIONAL PROPAGANDA linking the AR-15 style firearms as a SYMBOL STANDING for the HATRED and resentment fomented in the dark web to divide US Americans by race and economic standing. Russian and Chinese propaganda may have lit the spark for this resentment, but some of the sinister, unpatriotic US media has RUN with it and a large % of US citizens have bought it.
.........I am willing to entertain other theories for the big increase in the last 2 years. Many are unaware of that - it is NOT an insignificant situation.

Fair enough. I did not mean to knock target shooting.

I believe that there are a lot of sane gun owners. I have enjoyed hunting and shooting at targets (note......I would NEVER shoot at pictures of humans, always a bullseye only) That is NOT the problem. The problem is the type of rifle (something with a 30-round mag) and the sheer number of guns in civilian hands. And the strange recent increase.
........Canada is worried about itself (and its proximity to the US). Canada recognizes the problem. The US has become mentally deranged by the GUN manufacturers' propaganda and advertisements. The ads for the gun used by the shooter at Robb Elementary showed a 3 or 4-year-old seemingly desirous of their AR-15 clone. That is SICK!

As to "no revolution planned"......many expert social scientists ARE worried about that - nations fall apart more internally than externally. I make the odds about 50 / 50 that the US survives as a Democracy over the next 6 years! Many experts on Dictatorships see worrying trends in the US. The Canadian government has set up a study to evaluate their risk IF the US would lose its Democracy.
.........Those "worrying trends" could be the reason for the recent increase of 30% in US GUN ownership.
..........Every US citizen should have their radar tuned into trends involving violent GUN crime and trends toward autocracy. There are no guarantees that a Democracy continue forever. World trends are in the opposite direction.

Better or not, this is An excellent suggestion. There is a strong correlation between shooter and being bullied.

Yes, and wouldn’t it be ironic if the very amendment intended to prevent an authoritarian government ended up aiding in its creation?

Universal does mean private sales and all states.

One of the arguments against gun controls is the loopholes. This is an attempt to close loop holes. It does nothing to prevent responsible gun owners from buying or selling gu s, just reduces the ease of criminals buying guns - reduce, not eliminate .

I am all for your suggestion the juvenile records be open to background checks.

I don’t see how prosecuting will stop school shootings like this one, until the children are dead. We need to prevent children from dying needlessly, AND punish criminals.

broken homes, no parental supervision, easy killing video games, internet, social media, what did i miss.. if the teachers were armed this would not have happened, if an armed officer was in the school this would not have happened, if the doors were closed and locked as required, this would not have happened. i will not get political, but dam, wake up!!!!!

At gun shows the vast majority of sellers are federally licensed gun dealers and are required to follow federal law regarding background checks. There is absolutely no "loop hole" that allows them to not perform checks.

Yes, there are private individuals selling guns, from their private collection, at gun shows and under federal law are not required to do a background check. Also federal law makes it a felony for a prohibited person to purchase, own, or possess a firearm. So who is breaking the law, the private seller who is complying with federal law or the prohibited person who is illegally buying a firearm?

It is also illegal for a private seller to sell guns as a business without obtaining a federal license. They can legally sell private collection firearms, but when it goes beyond selling a gun or multiple guns in the collection to fund another gun for their collection, it becomes a business and violation of federal law.

Additionally, private individuals are not allowed access to the NICS federal database so how are they to perform a background check? Many licensed gun dealers aren't going to be willing to take their time to perform a background check for a private seller when the dealer will derive no revenue for the service.

I suppose a law could be drafted that would allow access to the NICS database but do you want any Tom, Dick and Harry to be able to do a background check on OBB? A law could be passed that requires licensed dealers to perform the check but who will set the price for that service? If the price is too high and too time consuming or icredibilly inconvenient, a lot of private sellers will ignore the check and just sell the firearm.

OBB, you need to do a deeper Google search for your information.

Who was going to overpower him in a classroom full of small children?

In most cases it doesn't require the President or other such dignitary for an event to have a prohibition of firearms on the premises. Most of the NRA and other organizations that hold conventions do so in a public owned facility. It is the entity controlling/owning the facility that has the authority to ban firearms and most if not all have a ban against firearms.

Prisons have heavily controlled ingress and egress and still are able to evacuate the facility in the event of fire. Just requires a plan and proper execution of the plan.

I know, it is easier to follow the path of least resistance rather than take on deteriorating moral standards in society, so we just stick our fingers in our ears and yell, LaLaLaLaLa, I can't hear you! It requires brave action to take on the people who always find a contrived excuse for evil people and their actions. Evil people with a diabolical need to cause death and destruction will find a way to do so even in the absence of guns.

If we keep allowing immoral, violent and evil people to perform these deeds, without challenge, what do you think this world will devolve to? Burry our heads in the sand and pretend all is well.

That is what is SAD.

At one point he exchanged gunfire with several of the local police officers. They felt outgunned so they fell back and waited. This was their mistake. My point is that IF there were only single shot or bolt action rifles available to mass murderers anywhere in the US, then they would be firing SLOWER and they could more EASILY be stopped a group of adults close by. There would be more time for potential victims to run or hide. And if magazines were limited to less than 5 rounds that would slow a mass murderer down.
........As the laws exist today, the would-be murderer can fire his semi-auto at about 1 round per second and for up to 30 rounds before a magazine change. Anything that can be done by a law change to slow him down, should be done. Also not allowing civilians to get body armor would help. Canada is contemplating changes right now.
.........If the current rate of mass murders continues, the US people might get so angry that they over-react on gun safety. I would rather end up like Australia than Japan as far as gun safety goes.
..........Open carry is a great example of over-reacting in the wrong direction. There is a great chance of that backfiring.

In Japanese society there are no square pegs, only round pegs and round holes. Deviance from the established societal norm is viewed critically and those people are marginalized. That is one of the reasons for the extremely high suicide rate in their society. Unlike the U.S. and European countries, the Japanese society is pretty much only Japanese and not multicultural. They don't have to contend with cultural differences. I have also read that the Japanese judicial system, in the instances of a murder/suicide, count the victims as suicides. Gives the image of a lower homicide rate.

Do some research on Japanese prisons, they are extremely regimented and by most western standards, practice brutal control methods to maintain order. Accused and convicted and imprisoned criminals do not get to see an attorney when they want. The police/prison officials determine when a prisoner is allowed counsel. There is no Miranda Warning either. Coerced confessions are quite common and rarely challenged.

If 30 small children threw objects at an adult with a bolt-action rifle, the children might get lucky and some escape.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:
& if he had a bow & arrow............

a shooter is not going to use a b-a rifle
:1rotfl::1rotfl:

I can see I’m not going to get the last rant on this subject….:faint:

In Viet Nam the infantry soldier had to hump for miles in sweltering jungle conditions carrying his ammo basic load, rifle and a rucksack loaded down with other necessities. In the Sand Box soldiers humped in temperatures like an oven, carrying even more equipment than the Viet Nam vets. Some rucksacks could top 80 lbs. in weight. This demonstrated the advantages of a lightweight rifle shooting a light caliber round.

All your points are germane to a soldier in combat. None of this provided an advantage in any the school shootings or other shootings involving the AR15. All of them simply walked in an unguarded, unwatched door from their parked vehicle. The difference in ammo weight means nothing either.

The round the Model 1907 uses is similar in capability to the venerable 30-30 Winchester but both are capable rounds for deer withing their range limitation. The recoil from a .351 and time needed to get back on target really causes no limitation in rate of fire when the shooter is in a small classroom with children huddled in a corner. The .351 will more than likely penetrate 2 or more small statured children where as the 5.56 will most likely be stopped by one body. The .351 will inflict much more grievous wounds than the AR15 bullet. Typical ammo for the .351 is soft nose hunting ammo that is designed to expand when it hits flesh or bone, creating a large wound channel to cause a quick bleed out and death. The 5.56 is an effective round but it doesn't "explode", that is urban myth and it cannot create the devastating wounds the .351 can cause.

These "significant differences" mean nothing outside of the combat environment.

This is very true, but, do we need to make it easy for them.?

Why didn't you also mention the ANTIFA and BLM riots where over $2 Billion in destroyed property and a number of murders. Did they not take over police stations, a whole city block and vandalize office buildings of various levels of government? Were these not acts of anarchism and sedition.?

A dozen armed officers did not stop the one shooter. Yet you expect a teacher to go head to head with a ten high on adrenaline, firing two semiautomatic, when the teach is armed with one.

Who do you think the shooter is going to target first. When the shoot comes into the room unexpected and fires as fire as possible at the teacher. Do you want to be standing at the black board with your back to the classroom door?

I expect the main result of arming teachers is most teacher will quit.

"Plastic Guns":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

You watch too much television. It will still require a steel barrel and other steel parts to safely fire a bullet, which any metal detector will pick up.

Universal checks won't have any impact on criminals. For the most part they steal them, buy them from an illegal seller of guns or use a straw purchaser. A straw purchaser is usually a family member or significant other who isn't a prohibited person. This person legally buys the gun and completes a background check, takes possession of the gun and then gives it to the prohibited individual. How will a universal check counter that?

One needs to truly understand the reasons that these crazy shooters slip thru the cracks, again and again.

Google things like.. The Continuing Need to Rethink Discipline

It's not rocket science or brain surgery.

How would a waiting period have stopped the shooter in New Mexico? He purchased the rifles days before the shooting. I don't know of any school shootings where the shooter did his killing the same day as buying the gun.

So what are the things they are doing in these other countries? Please don't say gun bans stop violence, there are still knives, bludgeons, fists, feet and any number of potential weapons. What are their assault rates with these weapons? If those rates are lower than ours, how does a gun ban cause that?

I guess removing the evil talisman guns also removes the evil spirits that force a sane person to become evil.

Fun Fact:

Of all our friends in prison, less than 2% purchased a gun from a retailer.

Less than 2%.

Apparently you have been living in TV too long. There are neighborhoods in this country where people are afraid to walk the street due to gang wars, drug deals and prostitution. Unfortunately these gang wars have spread outside of the bad neighborhoods. Did you not see the news reports of shootings in downtown areas in broad daylight? There are home invasions and car jackings going on all the time in large and small cities.

Bludgeons are responsible for more deaths that rifles in this country.

Why I no longer live in Chicago

The 223 is a high-velocity cartridge and with civilian lead soft-noes bullets would leave a large exit wound often described as "exploding". That's why the children's own parents could NOT recognize their faces. Their heads were pulverized. They had to use DNA identification. That's the reality, NOT an "urban legend". Brass covered military bullets poke holes and don't expand as per the Geneva convention.