[Djean1981]

Criminals don't care about gun laws. An example is the cartel - crime in Mexico where gun possession carries a prison sentence. We can't even keep drugs off the street much less guns. And, now guns can be printed. Regretfully, telling people to give up their guns, so only the criminals will be armed, is not the answer..

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

Very few states require a State conducted background check. The federal government DOES require a check on all firearms purchased from a licensed gun dealer. The federal law applies to all states and territories of the U.S. A state cannot preempt that requirement, only add to it.

What laws weren't enforced??? The murderer and the gun dealer both complied with federal law by completing federal form 4473. Apparently the murderer passed the background check as he was able to take possession of the firearms.

We have laws against robbery, rape, assault, drug dealing, murder and a whole slew of other illegal activity. How well are they preventing crime??? We have a severe violence problem in this country yet no one wants to address that. The politicians misdirect your attention by blaming the tool used by criminals instead of working on the real problem, because that would require them to actually work on something.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

Today is the 144th day of 2022.

The Uvalde shooting is the 212th mass shooting of 2022.

Gun violence is a public health crisis.

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

[Boffin]

Originally Posted by jebartle

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

Time to invest some more in:

Smith & Wesson Brands (NASDAQ:SWBI)
Vista Outdoor (NYSE:VSTO)
Ammo (NASDAQ:POWW)

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

4 is the magic number.

Mass Shootings are, for the most part an American phenomenon. While they are generally grouped together as one type of incident they are several with the foundation definition being that they have a minimum of four victims shot, either injured or killed, not including any shooter who may also have been killed or injured in the incident

Mass Shootings in 2022 | Gun Violence Archive

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

Never said that this particular murderer purchased their guns illegally. My point was that there are laws that are not enforced, one of them being lying on the background check which is required by federal law. Having said that, per the Texas Department of Public Safety, "House Bill 1927 (Permitless Carry) does not repeal the License to Carry Program (LTC), established by Government Code Chapter 411, Subchapter H. The department is still required to process applications, conduct background checks, and produce a laminated license for those who qualify." (link)

When we hear that we need more gun laws, we don't hear how the additional gun laws would have prevented the tragedy to begin with. For example, a current talking point is how Universal Background Check legislation needs to be passed, yet in this specific case, the ATF reported that the murderer did in fact purchase his weapons legally.

More laws won't prevent these tragedies, I submit that committing murder is against the law, yet that law doesn't seem to stop this madness. If a perpetrator is intent on "suicide by cop" after such a heinous act, just how will more laws get them to not commit these crimes? What is the "endgame" of more laws? Is the reality that gun confiscation is the true goal?

Instead of focusing on more laws, how about understanding why current laws are not effective? Are they not being enforced? If not, why? Is the penalty for committing the crime an insufficient deterrent? Are there societal issues that may be contributing? How are we handling those suffering from mental illness? How about those who are just plain evil?

The FBI reported that they conducted over 38.8 Million Gun Background Checks in 2021 (link). The NSSF Trade Industry Association conducted a retail survey that showed an estimated 3.2 million first time gun buyers in the first half of 2021 (link). So why are there so many first time buyers? Maybe people are worried about their safety and prefer "to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

There is no easy answer to why mass shootings are occurring, but until the focus shifts from the "how" to the "why" we will stay in an endless loop.

[Hancie2]

Was disappointed when driving around the villages and seeing so few flags at half mast. Where is the respect? Maybe we should start there, with respect for each other.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Dave951

Maybe our government should stop sending so much money to other countries and use our military to help protect our public schools

Absolutely, 100% NO. The day our military is used in our country is the day our country ends.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Very few states require a State conducted background check. The federal government DOES require a check on all firearms purchased from a licensed gun dealer. The federal law applies to all states and territories of the U.S. A state cannot preempt that requirement, only add to it.

What laws weren't enforced??? The murderer and the gun dealer both complied with federal law by completing federal form 4473. Apparently the murderer passed the background check as he was able to take possession of the firearms.

We have laws against robbery, rape, assault, drug dealing, murder and a whole slew of other illegal activity. How well are they preventing crime??? We have a severe violence problem in this country yet no one wants to address that. The politicians misdirect your attention by blaming the tool used by criminals instead of working on the real problem, because that would require them to actually work on something.

Funny, the police have stated the shooter LEGALLY purchased the gun in Texas. So, what law was to be enforced?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I'd be interested to know what the criteria are for a "mass" shooting, upon which the numbers in the post I'm responding to are based.

Go to the FBI website, it is all defined and explained.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

Never said that this particular murderer purchased their guns illegally. My point was that there are laws that are not enforced, one of them being lying on the background check which is required by federal law.

And I was not saying all school shootings are by legally purchased weapons. My point was that this one was, so even if there are laws that are not enforced (and I agree with you there are many laws that are not enforced) it was not a contributing factor in this case.

So, by saying if new are not addressing why, are you saying there is no point is trying to reduce the how?

NO ONE knows why electricity works - I guess we shovel stop using it (sarcasm). Doing something is better than doing nothing.

But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example.

So, your post was excellent, but came to the same conclusion as many others, we don't know HOW to stop school shootings.

My suggestion is we start talking about it, and stop fighting over the past and find a solution for the future sake of our country and our children.

[Djean1981]

Very true. A lot of the behavior is driven by wanting attention. The shooter was posting on social media prior to the shootings. Social media has created a lot of narcissists.

[davem4616]

so sad...and so sad that our leaders seem to be incapable of doing anything to prevent this

maybe they're just too busy trying to figure out how to get reelected to do anything that will really make a difference in the world we live in

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

And I was not saying all school shootings are by legally purchased weapons. My point was that this one was, so even if there are laws that are not enforced (and I agree with you there are many laws that are not enforced) it was not a contributing factor in this case.

So, by saying if new are not addressing why, are you saying there is no point is trying to reduce the how?

I will clarify my use of the term "how" in my previous postings on this thread to the use of a gun/rifle as the focal point instead of things like how did the warning signs about this individual get missed as has happened in other previous events? How/why did this perpetrator get past a school resource officer who approached him and engaged him? (Per recent reports). Certainly other questions of "how" need to be addressed. Unfortunately there is a race to be first instead of waiting to get data, so immediately there is a call for more gun laws. The call for more gun laws leans into the emotional side of the discussion, but I have yet to see a correlation of how new gun laws will stop the mass shootings. Per a report (link) published in 2019 by the DOJ in which it surveyed prison inmates in 2016, the majority of guns used in their crimes were obtained illegally. So if guns are obtained illegally, or legally as in this specific case, how do the gun control laws prevent a recurrence of this event?

NO ONE knows why electricity works - I guess we should stop using it (sarcasm). Doing something is better than doing nothing.

But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun control laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example.

I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless.

So, your post was excellent, but came to the same conclusion as many others, we don't know HOW to stop school shootings.

My suggestion is we start talking about it, and stop fighting over the past and find a solution for the future sake of our country and our children

We may not know how to stop the school shootings all together, but we do know how to mitigate the risk. Unfortunately not all schools have implemented risk management plans (in whole or in part) for one reason or another.

I think that the big hurdle is how to start the dialogue. It appears that emotion and politics tend to be the start and end of the discussion.

[Woodbear]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, this shooter did not lie on the background check, Texas doesn’t require one. He just turned 18 and legally purchased 2 ar15s a day later and then killed 21 people.

It’s hard to enforce laws that don’t exist.

The shooter legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store. This WOULD have required a background check.