Womens sports
 

Agree men should not be able to compete in women's sports. The only reason they want to is because they are not good enough to compete and win in men's sports.

I agree. Gender Dysphoria is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR) as a “mental disorder.” It’s not a fun way to live, the way some teens and activists seem to see it, but a substantial disability that can make life difficult and unhappy, rather like obsessive-compulsive disorder or manic depression or autism or even like a limp or a bad stutter. It has never been a “normal” way to be. It’s good to help people deal with this disease, but that shouldn’t mean pretending that it is just another normal way of being. It’s okay to provide accessibility where appropriate, but if transgender people want to compete in sports, let them compete in the Special Olympics.

I remember when Annika Sorenstam competed against the men in a couple of PGA tour events and was applauded for doing so. She was competing UP, and I say good for her. But if Rory McIlroy wanted to compete in an LPGA event that would be grossly unfair--even if he wore a skirt. That's exactly what these transgender athletes want to do, have an unfair advantage. Like the transgender swimmer who defeated the best of the women swimmers...what has he/she (?) really accomplished? He couldn't beat his male counterparts but he beat the female swimmers. So what?

I'm saying it has to go both ways, and the wording of the laws is unfair and discriminatory. It's saying that transgender WOMEN - only - should not be allowed to join women-only teams. It says nothing about transgender MEN not being allowed to join men-only teams.

If you want to say "transgender people should not be able to join cis-gender teams, but we will have mixed teams and/or transgender-only teams" then that's fine. But singling out transgender women is - discriminatory. By definition.

Regardless of WHY. I even agree with the sentiment. But it's a sticky wicket - what about natural born hermaphrodites? There are humans born with both male and female gonads, raised as male, but not exclusively male. They are also female. Which team would THEY play on? Or should they be excluded from playing on ANY team?

There are also intersex folks - they have a p..e.n..is (can't use a normal scientific word on a forum whose membership is comprised of adults - that's just so pathetic), but they also have ovaries. Or they might have a v.a..gin-a (again) but the musculature and hormones of a man. Or other odd mutations of the reproductive system that makes them neither male, nor female, but a little of both. Which team do THEY get to play on? Or should they also be excluded from playing on ANY team?

This is why it's an issue. Not because these folks want to play "as male/female" on a team. But because - their physiology puts them in an awkward position. They want to play sports. There's no reason to deprive them of the opportunity to play sports. But where do you put them? ALL of them. Not just the trans-women.

In 72 years I have made the acquaintance of three transgender people. There are not so many of them in the world as to justify all the concern and hot air expended over them.

i'm sure the females are just as upset, but this being new territory, are unsure of how to proceed. who do they go to? a coach? the media which will certainly turn on a female & demonizer her till the cows come home? right now they're keeping mouths shut of our fear for their own careers. theyre being forced to be quiet & take it, or,..thats what it appears to be from where i'm sitting

This whole matter only applies to men who have had a sex change running against women in the Summer Olympics.
World Rankings | Women's Overall Ranking

I would bet most men runners would have a hard time competing with these women unless they had the same kind of training, commitment to their sport and experience.

Isn't it the case today that women can try out for men's teams? Less likely to succeed due to the difference in body structure but still allowed? At the same time, it isn't the case that men can try out for women's teams, right?

The discrimination you point out is in place today - we call it protecting women's sports.

What happens in someone's brain, the gender that feels comfortable to them or the sex of those they feel attracted to, doesn't determine their physical characteristics. It is the physical characteristics of a biological male that makes it harmful to allow them to compete in a women's sport. That seems to me to be a pretty fair dividing line.

Handle other edge cases as they come up. Today, the issue is trans-women. Today, biological women are being harmed when biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports. Solve today's problem today.

The simple answer is. Athletes should compete as XX or XY. Hormones and surgery do not change your DNA. And everyone should at least be tolerant if not supportive or transgender people.

Olympics
 

This is the right thing to do for women to have a fair chance to win. Perhaps a new trans division should be established for them to participate.

Complicated issue ??

IMHO, if you were born with a *****, you are MALE.
If not, then you are FEMALE.
If you are male and "feel" that you are female or vice versa, then it's a mental/emotional issue.
Too bad. You are WHAT you are.
If you were born with both genitalia, then you have a physiological issue, and this is the true issue of transgenderism. THAT is the issue that must be focused on.

I’m well aware of the different sex anomalies and I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to comprehend a separate classification for these individuals. If it feels discriminatory, then discriminate with biological female and biological male teams.

Hermaphrodites normally receive hormone therapy from a young age after a sex has been selected and mature accordingly. As I said, rather than ruin biological female sports, a new classification is needed for those with sexual anomalies so they can compete with comparable individuals.

We have a Special Olympics. Why not have a Transgender Olympics? Makes sense to me. Then everyone should be happy.

"It's called abnormal behavior. A mental condition that should be addressed, not encouraged." How many human lives have been made and will be made miserable by that type of thinking?

/// misunderstood the point of the comment I was replying to ///

As a woman who served 24 years in the military, I am grateful for the opportunities made available to me by the women (and men) who have fought for women's rights.
It angers me that men are now claiming those rights and protections, which diminishes and negates what those ancestors fought so hard for.

One would think that...

But, so many have been brainwashed into believing that being upset at that makes you "phobic"...

Trans men don't compete with cis men because they know they will lose. Plain and simple...

And please, yes we all know about the EXTREMELY RARE cases of genetic mutations during gestation, resulting in intersex individuals. But that discussion is nothing but a red herring... Nice try.

Except that recent polls have shown that 25% of HS students now identify as LGBT(etc). It seems to be a new trend... Personally, I think it's due to social media...

There is no "requirement" for anyone to have had a "sex change". And that is part of the problem.

And you think that "most men runners would have a hard time competing with these women unless they had the same kind of training, commitment to their sport and experience."? Well, no kidding! Of course you need training to run competitively at ANY level... But that has NOTHING to do with the conversation...

Prezactly! I can only think of a handful of women who tried to compete with men. They all failed...

Annika Sorenstam
Michelle Wei
Babe Didrikson Zaharias and a few others...

Women Playing Men in Golf

And then, there are these women... NONE of them played close to a top tier level...

Meet The Trailblazing Female Athletes Competing With Men - Worldcrunch

Oh, puhleese — that is a ridiculous statement……

Please cite your source.

Boomer

(deleted text copied from an article to avoid getting TOTV in trouble)

Scary, isn't it?

This is the topic and not transgenders competing in all sports. A woman who used to be a man can run in the Paris 2024 Olympics with the men. And what would seem fairer is just exactly are this contestant's abilities? Maybe they are slower than all the men?

2 posts in the discussion. 1 calling an easily verifiable factual statement ridiculous and the other calling people who are trying to stand up to protect women as vile.

Quite the record....

There is no such thing as "a woman who used to be a man" as the individual does not have XX chromosomes or a uterus, no matter the hormones, surgeries and female attire. It is biologically impossible! Such a man can only attempt to appear to be a woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST2owT63VIk

"Lindsey Vonn: I’d probably die skiing against men".

I did find this interesting-- a top woman skier who petitioned to compete against the men.

So what exactly is your point. If my times were slower than all them men, i.e. I would lose, let me compete against the women to improve my odds?

Do you come up with these ridiculous comments all by yourself or do you have help?

spot on. I would exchange " unfair" for "criminal intent" to fix a contest. Let the transgenders play sports in their own leagues and contests

no jokes, their transgender issues are their problem not ours

thank you for your service. Could you please explain a little more about your posting. Do not want to prejudge it.

Nice to see some empathy and some class on here.

Interesting, that this does not seem to be too much of an issue among the top performers of whatever sport is in question, except when there are big bucks to be made in these male vs. female deals such as the one quoted about Annika Sorenstam, Venus & Serena Williams, etc. The fringe participants? Another story...

I strongly doubt that sports competition, or whatever advantage one does or does not have, is the real issue here. Like all too much in our society today, IMO, the bulk of this is about MeMeMe. Attention. Your name in this-or-that publication. An interview or two for middling dollars. Maybe a paperback book sold for a ridiculous price at airports or in the $5 bin at Barnes & Noble. And maybe--just maybe--if you make enough noise--an appearance on Oprah. Or some such.

And we buy into the hype: not in any way legitimizing it, but we surely do encourage it.

Originally Posted by Fltpkr View Post
I think that is a silly and completely illogical response to serious issue. No individual or family with children facing a sexual identity issue takes this lightly or treats it as a running joke. No one “wakes up one morning” deciding they are actually of a different sex - it is typically the consequence of years of nagging doubts, frustration and fear, and incredible heartache from trying to fit into the expectations of others and facing the most incredible cruelty when they don’t. Most Villagers are old enough and experienced enough to have met people from all walks of life and know that we are not all cut from the same cloth and sexuality is not some hard and fast rule that everyone fits into neatly. I am not speaking to the issue of athletic competition but to all the demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes.
1. The person specifically said they were not speaking about the issue of athletic competition. You should have correct them and let them know that we are only talking about women running in the Olympics.
2. The person said they were speaking to all the "demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes."
Well the issue may provoke that from some people, but it has not occurred on this thread. The overwhelming response has been, let them dress, act, surgically alter however and whatever they want. Just do not try to cheat biological women in sports.

Class is not accusing people of something not being done.

Compassion and empathy is realizing that trans people have a mental disorder (according to DSM-V) which needs to be treated not re-inforced. Imagine if we were compassionate and empathetic with anorexics by saying, Yep, you are fat. Let us help you diet and purge more.

If you can name five such people who actually have this condition and who (keeping it in the scope of this thread) legitimately would qualify otherwise to compete in the Olympics, I'll grant the point. Otherwise it is mere sophistry.

I'll assume that there wouldn't be any, because they've already been told they had to live with the shame of being "other" and no one would pick them anyway as a result. On the other hand, if being something other than straight hetero biological AND psychological male or female only were accepted by society - not as "common" but as "not an aberration/defect of nature worthy of scorn and shame" then there might well have been some, by now.

It's not sophistry. It's called acceptance of "other" even if you don't understand it, or like it, and trying to include everyone in whatever capacity they are able and interested.

No one needs a participation trophy. But everyone should have the opportunity to participate.

yes, participate by all means, in their own lanes.

So very simple.

Are you suggesting that everyone should have the opportunity to participate in whatever category they choose, regardless of fairness of competition?

Say if Bruce Jenner wanted to run at the 2024 Paris Olympics as a woman? Everyone would know that she had been a he. And the same would probably be the case with any Olympian at the Paris 2024 Olympics as to get to that level of competition you have to have become something of a celebrity in your country while qualifying for the Olympics.