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golfing eagles 08-01-2021 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1981548)
I see we hit a new record in Florida - 21,000 cases.

For those that like to use common sense, what does getting a record number of cases while performing half as many tests imply? (We are down from 90,000 tests to 48,000 tests per day)

My guess----it IMPLIES that 1/2 the population has been vaccinated and doesn't show up to get tested, leaving the unvaccinated in the test line----1/2 as many tests but many more positives..... Just a guess.

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1981673)
India, the UK, and several European countries had Delta before the US did. Were they impacted by the US southern border too?

We need to stop with the ridiculous attempts to find someone to blame other than the 40%ish of the country who have refused to get the vaccination. They are the ones predominately getting sick and filling the hospitals. They are the ones predominately spreading the virus. They are the ones who are driving the "need" for the new mask mandates. They, the unvaccinated, are the primary reason the virus is still spreading. Talking about the border is a distraction or a deflection - deal with the problem at hand.

Yes, there are some who legitimately cannot be vaccinated. Their need for special protection is due to the vaccine refusers as well.

I hope these "travelers" don't have the dreaded South African variant which rampaged through Brazil. There could be new variants also, it's hard to keep up.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981472)
Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers, religious conscientious objector-vaxxers have their fingers in their ears while they chant la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la so loudly to drown out any information that they either do not agree with or are afraid of. You can't fix stupid. There, is said it finally. I've been waaaaaaaay too nice about this crap.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-01-2021 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1981715)
My guess----it IMPLIES that 1/2 the population has been vaccinated and doesn't show up to get tested, leaving the unvaccinated in the test line----1/2 as many tests but many more positives..... Just a guess.

I haven't been tested at all, not from the day the first tests became available to the present.

I spent the entire last year just flat out assuming that I'd been exposed to it, due to the nature of my job at the time (working in Publix before masks were required, while masks were required but unenforceable by employees, and out in the parking lots where masks were also not required). No need to have proof that you were exposed to something, if you just go ahead and assume you were exposed to it.

I had no symptoms throughout so either I was never exposed and therefore not able to have caught COVID, or I was exposed and either didn't catch the disease, or was asymptomatic.

*I* wore a mask, so *I* did *my* part in minimizing the risk that everyone else might catch it from me, if I was actually infected but asymptomatic.

Now that the vaccine is here, I'm fully vaccinated and willing to get the booster if the CDC ends up recommending it. Hopefully they'll decide within the next couple of months so we can get it in time for it to be as effective as Pfizer says it should be.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981728)
I haven't been tested at all, not from the day the first tests became available to the present.

I spent the entire last year just flat out assuming that I'd been exposed to it, due to the nature of my job at the time (working in Publix before masks were required, while masks were required but unenforceable by employees, and out in the parking lots where masks were also not required). No need to have proof that you were exposed to something, if you just go ahead and assume you were exposed to it.

I had no symptoms throughout so either I was never exposed and therefore not able to have caught COVID, or I was exposed and either didn't catch the disease, or was asymptomatic.

*I* wore a mask, so *I* did *my* part in minimizing the risk that everyone else might catch it from me, if I was actually infected but asymptomatic.

Now that the vaccine is here, I'm fully vaccinated and willing to get the booster if the CDC ends up recommending it. Hopefully they'll decide within the next couple of months so we can get it in time for it to be as effective as Pfizer says it should be.

Bring on the booster. I want to cruise!

Byte1 08-01-2021 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981725)
Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers, religious conscientious objector-vaxxers have their fingers in their ears while they chant la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la so loudly to drown out any information that they either do not agree with or are afraid of. You can't fix stupid. There, is said it finally. I've been waaaaaaaay too nice about this crap.

Sure, like that is going to convince anyone to get their vaccination.

lkagele 08-01-2021 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981725)
Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers, religious conscientious objector-vaxxers have their fingers in their ears while they chant la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la so loudly to drown out any information that they either do not agree with or are afraid of. You can't fix stupid. There, is said it finally. I've been waaaaaaaay too nice about this crap.

Too judgmental, IMO. I chose to be vaccinated due to my age bracket. I don't really care about those choosing not to get the vaccine. Their choice and they will live with any adverse consequences. And, for younger generations, the risk of adverse consequences is minimal.

Have you ever considered that we might be the ones that turn out to be stupid. After all, the vaccines are still only experimental having only been approved for emergency use. No one yet knows if there are any long term effects. I'm hoping not but I still understand there's that risk.

drducat 08-01-2021 11:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981736)
Bring on the booster. I want to cruise!

:popcorn:

Byte1 08-01-2021 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981736)
Bring on the booster. I want to cruise!

No one is stopping you now. Cruise ships have been leaving port in Florida.

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1981715)
My guess----it IMPLIES that 1/2 the population has been vaccinated and doesn't show up to get tested, leaving the unvaccinated in the test line----1/2 as many tests but many more positives..... Just a guess.

So you are saying the tests are weighted to people that are not vaccinated, and that would account for the higher percentage of testing positive.

That is a very good answer. Thank you. I will have to scratch my head for a while to see if the bias adds up, but the first impression is you are right.

(Oh darn, sorry, I didn't mean to agree with you again - people are going to start taking!)

CFrance 08-01-2021 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1981745)
So you are saying the tests are weighted to people that are not vaccinated, and that would account for the higher percentage of testing positive.

That is a very good answer. Thank you. I will have to scratch my head for a while to see if the bias adds up, but the first impression is you are right.

(Oh darn, sorry, I didn't mean to agree with you again - people are going to start taking!)

You two stop being so nice to each other.:boxing2:

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1981740)
Too judgmental, IMO. I chose to be vaccinated due to my age bracket. I don't really care about those choosing not to get the vaccine. Their choice and they will live with any adverse consequences. And, for younger generations, the risk of adverse consequences is minimal.

Have you ever considered that we might be the ones that turn out to be stupid. After all, the vaccines are still only experimental having only been approved for emergency use. No one yet knows if there are any long term effects. I'm hoping not but I still understand there's that risk.

Actually, no, I have my entire life put science first in my life. So, I put my trust in scientists that spend their lives learning about pandemics and doing that for that old fashion, an out-of-style thing called "helping mankind".

Sure there are some scientists that have sold their souls to big corporations and make statements like "Camel Cigarettes are GOOD for your cough". And they are part of the reason for the anti-science so prevalent today.

And then there are the charlatans that sell their snake oil to those that will buy it.

But, those down in the trenches, not looking for fame and riches, do doing the hard work and publishing in peer review journals. I trust them. I think NOT trusting them would be a bad idea.

Byte1 08-01-2021 12:16 PM

July had the lowest death rate by Covid in over a year, almost two years. In Florida, of the total deaths in July was less than 6% Covid related.
Most of those refusing the Covid vaccination are either young or minorities. That's a fact according to the demographics table on the CDC site.

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981490)
The whole spike protein thing is overblown, and has been used as a political anti-vax conspiracy to cast blame and deflect. While I don't really understand about spike proteins, I do understand about checking out information sources. If credentialed, known, experienced, published, peer-reviewed, immunologists, virologists, research scientists who are respected *by their peers* all say "yeah that thing you heard? It's just more fox news nonsense" then I'm going to believe them, before I believe Tucker Carlson.

And by "by their peers" I am intentionally excluding people whose opinions of those scientists have no relevance. What a Tucker or Hannity or whoever is on CNN or main-stream-media or some alt-right or anarchy conspiracy website or Dr. Oz or even our President feels about a scientist is not relevant. I don't care about their feelings about science. I care about the respected opinions of respected scientists, about other respected scientists.

In other words, I believe in science, not editorials.

Who or what determines "respectability"? Everything, including science, has become extremely politicized so it's almost impossible to be objective. Therefore, the general public will naturally be skeptical of the "experts" and take their "respected" opinions with a grain of salt.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-01-2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 1981741)
:popcorn:

Happy healthy children who were successfully inoculated against smallpox. Routine vaccination for smallpox ended in 1972, after smallpox was eradicated from the planet thanks to vaccinations.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-01-2021 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981767)
Who or what determines "respectability"? Everything, including science, has become extremely politicized so it's almost impossible to be objective. Therefore, the general public will naturally be skeptical of the "experts" and take their "respected" opinions with a grain of salt.

When the choice is a medical conspiracy website that sells supplements that don't do anything, or Tucker Carlson, or Sean Hannity, or the President - who is also not a scientist or doctor of any kind...

I'll pick the actual scientists who have spent their lives studying virii for a living.

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981770)
When the choice is a medical conspiracy website that sells supplements that don't do anything, or Tucker Carlson, or Sean Hannity, or the President - who is also not a scientist or doctor of any kind...

I'll pick the actual scientists who have spent their lives studying virii for a living.

Ah, but they also are influenced by outside sources. You seem to want to deify scientists but they can be corrupt just like everyone else, haha.

My daughter was an immunologist - not a virologist, but close enough. She worked for research labs in the U.S. and Europe. She usually worked under the umbrella of a hospital or university so it depended on who was providing the funding for their research and that could skew results (especially if pharmaceutical companies were involved). Hate to burst your bubble!

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981767)
Who or what determines "respectability"? Everything, including science, has become extremely politicized so it's almost impossible to be objective. Therefore, the general public will naturally be skeptical of the "experts" and take their "respected" opinions with a grain of salt.

Actually no, science has not become politicized. The mainstream scientists are still the same, are still publishing and being peer-reviewed, and still practicing science.

There certainly has been an attempt to politicize it, but for the most part that is not the case.

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981784)
Ah, but they also are influenced by outside sources. You seem to want to deify scientists but they can be corrupt just like everyone else, haha.

See this doesn't help. No one is Deifying anyone. Scientists are human. Scientists make mistakes. Scientists can be influenced.

But, a Vet giving advice on Pandemics is not science. A politician saying they are smarter than scientists is not helpful.

Why does it seem it is always necessary to exaggerate the opposition's position to make ones point.

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981784)
My daughter was an immunologist - not a virologist, but close enough. She worked for research labs in the U.S. and Europe. She usually worked under the umbrella of a hospital or university so it depended on who was providing the funding for their research and that could skew results (especially if pharmaceutical companies were involved). Hate to burst your bubble!

You aren't bursting my bubble. One example to pain all scientists seems a bit unfair.

Are you saying that unless all scientists are saints, that they are are unworthy?

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1981789)
You aren't bursting my bubble. One example to pain all scientists seems a bit unfair.

Are you saying that unless all scientists are saints, that they are are unworthy?

My reply wasn't directed at you unless you and Orange Blossom Baby are one in the same. there's too much reliance on science as if it isn't fallible, especially regarding the vaccines which are new and experimental so its effects and results are still evolving and not engraved in stone.

And to say science hasn't become politicized is untrue. I can think of two glaring examples aside from COVID but don't want to veer off topic and get the thread closed down.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1981739)
Sure, like that is going to convince anyone to get their vaccination.

Of course not. Because they have their fingers in their ears. LOL.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1981740)
Too judgmental, IMO. I chose to be vaccinated due to my age bracket. I don't really care about those choosing not to get the vaccine. Their choice and they will live with any adverse consequences. And, for younger generations, the risk of adverse consequences is minimal.

Have you ever considered that we might be the ones that turn out to be stupid. After all, the vaccines are still only experimental having only been approved for emergency use. No one yet knows if there are any long term effects. I'm hoping not but I still understand there's that risk.

What time frame are people concerned about regarding "long term effects"? Is it one year, five years, 20 years? We know NOW what effects Covid causes and that includes those pesky long haul effects right up to death. Why worry about the unknown of a vaccine when it is very possible there will be no long term effects with the vaccines at all.

Vaccination history has proven that long term effects from any vaccine ever developed and used in humanity has not caused long term effects beyond the amount of time that has already lapsed for these mRNA vaccines that have already been administered. Very good chance there will not be long term effects from these Covid vaccines.

That seems to be the most popular excuse used by anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers. They need to start singing a different tune if you ask me.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1981742)
No one is stopping you now. Cruise ships have been leaving port in Florida.

I'm aware. I follow the Cruise Critic forums very closely. As avid cruisers, hubby and I are still waiting it out. Too many "surprises" going on with the protocols changing at the drop of a hat. This Delta variant is waaaay too contagious for us to get on a ship right now. Oh well.

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981849)
What time frame are people concerned about regarding "long term effects"? Is it one year, five years, 20 years? We know NOW what effects Covid causes and that includes those pesky long haul effects right up to death. Why worry about the unknown of a vaccine when it is very possible there will be no long term effects with the vaccines at all.

Vaccination history has proven that long term effects from any vaccine ever developed and used in humanity has not caused long term effects beyond the amount of time that has already lapsed for these mRNA vaccines that have already been administered. Very good chance there will not be long term effects from these Covid vaccines.

That seems to be the most popular excuse used by anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers. They need to start singing a different tune if you ask me.

No one seems to know how long the immunity conveyed by the vaccines lasts. they estimate 6-12 months. They did the trails for the Pfizer in July 2020 and tested the participants in January 2021 and they still had strong antibodies. Maybe it never goes away? That wouldn't be a good thing, either. With traditional vaccines, they are broken down by your cells over time, but we don't know what to expect with these mRNA ones.

GrumpyOldMan 08-01-2021 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981813)
My reply wasn't directed at you unless you and Orange Blossom Baby are one in the same. there's too much reliance on science as if it isn't fallible, especially regarding the vaccines which are new and experimental so its effects and results are still evolving and not engraved in stone.

And to say science hasn't become politicized is untrue. I can think of two glaring examples aside from COVID but don't want to veer off topic and get the thread closed down.

Okay, you can think of Two examples. I said in my reply some have attempted to. I can provide literally thousands of examples of scientists that have not been politicized so, what does that prove?

coffeebean 08-01-2021 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981854)
No one seems to know how long the immunity conveyed by the vaccines lasts. they estimate 6-12 months. They did the trails for the Pfizer in July 2020 and tested the participants in January 2021 and they still had strong antibodies. Maybe it never goes away? That wouldn't be a good thing, either. With traditional vaccines, they are broken down by your cells over time, but we don't know what to expect with these mRNA ones.

My understanding with these mRNA vaccines is that they train the immune system to recognize the pathogen, this being the Covid virus spike protein. Even if antibodies have waned to an undetectable level, the body's immune system T Cells and B Cells will spring into action and neutralize the virus, thus stopping the infectious process in its tracks. That is where the protection is derived from the vaccine.

GE.......any comments? I think you already told me that this is a correct understanding of how these mRNA vaccines work. Do I have that right?

drducat 08-01-2021 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981861)
My understanding with these mRNA vaccines is that they train the immune system to recognize the pathogen, this being the Covid virus spike protein.


This gives no T cell immunity......not a sterilizing vaccine, just B cell. To go full T Cell immunity an actual virus (dead) needs to be used, not a shape protein. It is impossible to have T cell immunity....vaccine is just a band aid, no different from Tylenol....gives protection of symptoms only and not the virus . :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981401)
There's no "anti-vaxxer movement" and no one is stopping anyone from getting the vaccine. I know people from different walks of life, race/ethnicity, religion, income level, political ideology who do not want to get the vaccine. They have nothing else in common, only that.

If someone REALLY wants to see the anti-vaxxer movement in operation. Just watch the 1st 5 minutes of the wonderful "Tuckums" show every night at 8 PM on conTV (con for conspiracy)!

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981405)
He's not a prominent virologist.

He's a veterinarian who received his PhD in virology. His actual medical doctorate is in veterinary medicine. He's also prominent only by way of self-promotion. He's not really known for much of anything. I mean he made a big deal about speaking at a LinkdIn event in Ohio. That's the medicine world's equivalent of a motivational speaker at a regional Tupperware meeting.

That post "cuts to the core". And drives away the clouds of MISINFORMATION that are sweeping through the US from the dark sections of the web.

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 03:57 PM

Fauci's resume is impeccable. He is a legend in his field. History will remember him, not that self-promoting VETERINARIAN!

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981457)
Swine Flu (H1N1) was declared a pandemic in the spring of 2009. By December of that year they had developed a traditional vaccine and were starting to administer it. That's because Swine Flu was related to other flus that humans get. It had the same components. Not so with COVID. They had to try something new. They're still figuring it out and you can see that in the CDC's backtracking, contradictions, corrections, and do-overs for the past year.

All this new study has done is create more uncertainty, confusion and distrust. Now the unvaccinated think, "why bother getting vaccinated if my old auntie is fully vaxxed and still got it anyway?"

We need a vaccine against conspiracy theories and misinformation Then maybe we could get a normal America back?

drducat 08-01-2021 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1981891)
Fauci's resume is impeccable. He is a legend in his field. History will remember him, not that self-promoting VETERINARIAN!

It is not going to end well for Fauci....He is a phony hack.

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1981472)
Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

The US blew a BIG opportunity to finish off or nearly finish off CV in the US in April and May. We could have then worked to help out the world by opening up more vaccine-producing facilities in the US and worldwide. US citizens worked basically toward one goal in WW2 - to save the world from tyranny. Now in World War CV (WWCV), as a country, we have NOT been EVEN able to SAVE ourselves (from ourselves). Today, we do NOT seem like The United States - we seem united in CHAOS only - multiple different factions and tribes are pulling the US apart, not together. How does this movie end? I wonder if the Roman Empire felt like this as it began to crumble. If a VIRUS were smart enough to laugh, it would mock our feeble attempts to irradicate it.

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1981883)
If someone REALLY wants to see the anti-vaxxer movement in operation. Just watch the 1st 5 minutes of the wonderful "Tuckums" show every night at 8 PM on conTV (con for conspiracy)!

Oh, you mean the knuckle-dragging white supremacist hillbillies who call it a "plandemic" and think George Soros, Bill Gates and Obama are behind the whole thing at China's direction?

Well, you'd be wrong. Those refusing to get vaccinated are not right wing nutjobs nor Tucker Carlson/Fox News lovers but minorities - black and Latinos - who distrust the government that takes care of them, cradle to grave. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

These are supposed to be their peeps and they have pooped on their vaccination agenda! They've offered them money, incentives, in California the idiot governor is on TV spinning the lottery wheel where newly vaccinated folks are entered, they've done outreach, special vaccine clinics at parks and shopping malls. Latino men, still full of the old-school machismo, think it will make them impotent or sterile. Blacks think it's another Tuskegee experiment at their expense. And then there's the young. Well, they're supposed to be stupid, right? Full of bravado, thinking they're invincible and nothing can hurt them.

Maybe you shouldn't be so self-righteous, judgmental, sneering, and stereotyping, and realize this pandemic is all about FEAR. Fear of the virus, which I see plenty of on this forum, and fear of an experimental vaccine and its possible, unknown side effects. Both reactions are normal and human so stop trivializing and mocking other people's pain and anxiety.

RICH1 08-01-2021 05:17 PM

After almost 2 years , nobody really knows

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1981613)
This virus was created in a lab using gain of function research funded by Fauci so its going be problematic. Fortunately there is a new technology being developed by last years Nobel prize winner and others that will be able to bypass the immune system antibody method and destroy the DNA of the virus directly.

I would read a link on that!

jimjamuser 08-01-2021 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escape Artist (Post 1981767)
Who or what determines "respectability"? Everything, including science, has become extremely politicized so it's almost impossible to be objective. Therefore, the general public will naturally be skeptical of the "experts" and take their "respected" opinions with a grain of salt.

It is still possible to be "objective". For example, 97% of all medical Doctors have received CV shots. That fact makes a BIG impression on me. Still, in today's strange, dark media mess, some are still shilling for no vaccines and no masks. Yes, I am looking at you........Tuckums.

coffeebean 08-01-2021 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 1981878)
This gives no T cell immunity......not a sterilizing vaccine, just B cell. To go full T Cell immunity an actual virus (dead) needs to be used, not a shape protein. It is impossible to have T cell immunity....vaccine is just a band aid, no different from Tylenol....gives protection of symptoms only and not the virus . :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

According to this article, mRNA vaccines do induce memory T Cell response.......

Do mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines induce memory T cell response similar to natural infection?

Escape Artist 08-01-2021 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1981934)
According to this article, mRNA vaccines do induce memory T Cell response.......

Do mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines induce memory T cell response similar to natural infection?

That's good news, if correct but it said the article hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.


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