[Captainpd]

Originally Posted by Florida Fan

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?

The poster should be ashamed of themselves. My son puts his life on the line every day. And you sit in your comfy house second guessing. I tell you what you are but it would get me kicked off the board. More than worth it

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

Truth be told, most of these guys have some indication the cops are coming. They learn early on that when they act crazy, do stupid $hit, or act suspicious, the cops usually show up.

I mean, you just wandering in the mall shopping you would have no indication the cops are enroute to your location. Get naked and start dancing in the median of an intersection in the middle of the day and you can probably bet that they'll be showing up before too much longer.

There have been a few incidents in the Villages which quickly bring law enforcement like the robbery of one of the country club restaurants. Or something like that. A media helicopter was following the chase below as some cruisers ran after the fleeing subject through some fields.

What is different in the Charlotte tragedy is that the accused was given enough time to get into a good sniping position. Or, maybe, it was just bad luck that the LEO officers went past the window's possible field of fire.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by phassett

Weird that a UK site would be reporting on a little, local story.]

Four officers dead and four wounded!
How many more dead and wounded would make a little local story worthy of publishing nationally or even internationally?

[Florida Fan]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

In the 1970's and prior, it was common to not question and breakdown the way things are or were handled. It was considered insulting, offensive, and highly disrespectful. An officer or deputy did their best and either managed to survive or gave their life and it was taboo to suggest it may have been their fault they suffered.

Until the escalating loss of police lives in the 1960's and 1970's motivated Pierce Brooks to write "Officer Down, Code-Three" in the mid-1970's. The clinical breaking down and analysis of individual officer involved incidents (OIS) allowed administrators and trainers to develop and train tactics and strategies to help stop the escalating loss of officer lives.This movement eventually developed into the Street Survival series of books and lectures and the current way incidents are looked at and analyzed. I have been to several of the Street Survival seminars (Santa Barbara and Lost Wages) and at one point had the entire series which was read multiple times and shared among many. I can attest to their value.

I am very happy to know that your son is okay and uninjured. I know this is close to the bone for you. Additionally, it is the almost-manifestation of a deep fear for you, what with your son working Charlotte - and I am appreciative of his sacrifices and service just as I admire how supportive you are of your son's choice of career. However, it is imperative that the causes that allowed this incident to occur be dissected fully and accurately in order to help prevent it in the future. Especially to prevent your "almost-manifestation" from becoming an actual manifestation of every parent's worst fear. Law enforcement is a profession, and honest after-the-fact reviews are essential to improving future performance. Unlike corporate-America, improving future law enforcement profession directly saves lives.

As supportive of your son's career you are, you have not been a member of these locker room and training room discussions and I don't believe one can otherwise fully appreciate and understand the value of having this information accurately discussed and tactics, policies, and practices adjusted subsequently if needed. I am confident a person can appreciate many of the concerns, worries, and close family member's transference of those worries onto one's self. I am not certain one can fully appreciate all the nuances and first-hand fears unless one has been in the driver's seat of a radio car and has the handle making ALL the choices (and being responsible for their consequences) in a rapidly dynamic lethal encounter. Whether it makes global news the next day or not.

Taltrarzac725 is engaging in a common and necessary practice within police and sheriff's stations/divisions/offices/precincts, and that is for the benefit of all. I think you are very sensitive and close to the issue, especially in the recent aftermath of the incident, but I think you are incorrect to try to shut down Taltrarzac725's line of discussion. Perhaps he assumed (and we have all done this) that he was in the company of several like-minded and like-experienced individuals and was doing what we have all been conditioned to do, almost instinctively. However, I do not believe he is wrong to want the information and to dissect it. I hope my perspective helps you see Taltrarzac725's post as less offensive and irresponsible than you originally interpreted.

Thank God for you, Florida Fan, and your son, and especially his survival and safety!

Of course these situations will be reviewed. Not only are my two sons in law enforcement, but I spent over 30 years in it. I lost 5 of my brother officers during that time and not one of them could have been handled any differently. You can read all the books you want. Sometimes, evil just wins. Tactics are so much better today. Unfortunately, our society continues to spiral.

[Taltarzac725]

Thanks for posting this and for your work.

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

In the 1970's and prior, it was common to not question and breakdown the way things are or were handled. It was considered insulting, offensive, and highly disrespectful. An officer or deputy did their best and either managed to survive or gave their life and it was taboo to suggest it may have been their fault they suffered.

Until the escalating loss of police lives in the 1960's and 1970's motivated Pierce Brooks to write "Officer Down, Code-Three" in the mid-1970's. The clinical breaking down and analysis of individual officer involved incidents (OIS) allowed administrators and trainers to develop and train tactics and strategies to help stop the escalating loss of officer lives.This movement eventually developed into the Street Survival series of books and lectures and the current way incidents are looked at and analyzed. I have been to several of the Street Survival seminars (Santa Barbara and Lost Wages) and at one point had the entire series which was read multiple times and shared among many. I can attest to their value.

I am very happy to know that your son is okay and uninjured. I know this is close to the bone for you. Additionally, it is the almost-manifestation of a deep fear for you, what with your son working Charlotte - and I am appreciative of his sacrifices and service just as I admire how supportive you are of your son's choice of career. However, it is imperative that the causes that allowed this incident to occur be dissected fully and accurately in order to help prevent it in the future. Especially to prevent your "almost-manifestation" from becoming an actual manifestation of every parent's worst fear. Law enforcement is a profession, and honest after-the-fact reviews are essential to improving future performance. Unlike corporate-America, improving future law enforcement profession directly saves lives.

As supportive of your son's career you are, you have not been a member of these locker room and training room discussions and I don't believe one can otherwise fully appreciate and understand the value of having this information accurately discussed and tactics, policies, and practices adjusted subsequently if needed. I am confident a person can appreciate many of the concerns, worries, and close family member's transference of those worries onto one's self. I am not certain one can fully appreciate all the nuances and first-hand fears unless one has been in the driver's seat of a radio car and has the handle making ALL the choices (and being responsible for their consequences) in a rapidly dynamic lethal encounter. Whether it makes global news the next day or not.

Taltrarzac725 is engaging in a common and necessary practice within police and sheriff's stations/divisions/offices/precincts, and that is for the benefit of all. I think you are very sensitive and close to the issue, especially in the recent aftermath of the incident, but I think you are incorrect to try to shut down Taltrarzac725's line of discussion. Perhaps he assumed (and we have all done this) that he was in the company of several like-minded and like-experienced individuals and was doing what we have all been conditioned to do, almost instinctively. However, I do not believe he is wrong to want the information and to dissect it. I hope my perspective helps you see Taltrarzac725's post as less offensive and irresponsible than you originally interpreted.

Thank God for you, Florida Fan, and your son, and especially his survival and safety!

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by Florida Fan

Of course these situations will be reviewed. Not only are my two sons in law enforcement, but I spent over 30 years in it. I lost 5 of my brother officers during that time and not one of them could have been handled any differently. You can read all the books you want. Sometimes, evil just wins. Tactics are so much better today. Unfortunately, our society continues to spiral.

In the city I left to live in TV there was a controversial incident last year where a felon who had arrest warrants in connection with a shooting on a freeway was continually eluding law enforcement. He has holed up in his elderly mother’s home and she refused entry to the police serving the warrant. Consequently, they decided to make contact with him when he was out of the house. They approached him in a public place (a park) with many people around, including children, and a shoot out ensued and he took a married couple hostage and shot and killed one of them. It was poor decision-making/tactics all the way around and it cost innocent people their lives.

[juddfl]

Thank you for your years of service as a deputy.

[manaboutown]

The thug has been identified. He had quite a criminal history. That he was not spending his worthless life in prison appalls me.

Terry Clark Hughes Jr, 39, who also died in the Monday shootout. Prior to that, records show he had been arrested dozens of times, with almost 50 cases listed online, including charges relating to drug manufacture, firearm possession and aggravated assault.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...288142400.html

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

The thug has been identified. He had quite a criminal history. That he was not spending his worthless life in prison appalls me.

Terry Clark Hughes Jr, 39, who also died in the Monday shootout. Prior to that, records show he had been arrested dozens of times, with almost 50 cases listed online, including charges relating to drug manufacture, firearm possession and aggravated assault.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...288142400.html

I'm sure he was just about to turn his life around...

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

I'm sure he was just about to turn his life around...

He does look like a red flag type of fugitive.

[Cliff Fr]

Awful!! My heart goes out to the families of the fallen officers

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Cliff Fr

Awful!! My heart goes out to the families of the fallen officers

As does mine.

[cjrjck]

Originally Posted by Southwest737

I am not a law enforcement expert but I do possess some common sense. Wouldn’t it be better to snatch up the bad guy when he is out and about instead of his barricaded house full of guns and ammo? These failures happen too often. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

It's done both ways. Depends on how patternable the perp is and whether you think you could control the situation and prevent collateral damage. A moving target is sometimes hard to corral.