[Lyarham]

Originally Posted by rsmurano

I knew it was very expensive to own and operate an EV, but this is way more than what I thought.


Cost of Driving Electric Vehicle Equal to Paying $17.33 Per Gallon of Gasoline, Study Finds - Truth Press

electric is the wave of the future

[SeaCros]

Well said

[revfiddle]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There are 20 pages of the Bennett study and 120+ pages of the Argonne study to read and digest but a few things struck me right from the start:

• - The Bennett study adds the Federal and State rebates onto the price of the EV though there is no indication they were subtracted from the price being used
• - The Bennett study adds transmission and distribution costs even though those costs are actually being collected by the electric company (check your bill)
• - The Bennett study has three costs, including CAFE credits, that are "Costs to Buyers of Gasoline Vehicles," totaling $27,800. If these numbers are accurate then subtracting them from the price of the ICE and HEV models would mean the auto makers would give us the car for free with a $1,000 check sitting on the seat.

Again, there are nearly 150 pages to read and digest but something about the Truth seems a bit dishonest.

Thanks for posting. I go about 15,000 miles a year. I own a PHV and seldom buy gas, every two months on average. I charge the batteries in my garage and it adds very little to my electric bill.
With the PHV I have very few oil changes and maintenance because the gas motor hardly ever turns on. I can see that when I get an EV, I'll save at least $120 a month compared to an ICE vehicle for fuel, and reduce maintenance costs.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Fastskiguy

Not sure if this has been answered (didn't read the whole thing) but I'll give it a shot. My car gets a bit more than 4 miles per kWh of electricity but let's go with 4 for easy math. It is the base, cheapest, $32,000 model 3 and currently can go 260 miles on a full battery. 260/4=65 kWh. Superchargers are 30-35 cents per kWh and 97% of the energy coming out of the charger is going into the battery so 65kWh/.097% efficient X $0.35 per kWh =$23.45

We're paying a little under 13 cents/kWh for electricity here in TV so at home...where almost all of the charging happens...works out to $8.70 for a full charge. (One of the big things that people don't understand is that you charge at home at night, you don't charge at a supercharger unless you are on a trip)

Let's compare to our other car, 2017 Chrysler pacifica. 260 miles at 25mph = 10.4 gallons of gas. Let's say we're paying $3.20 per and that puts us at $33.28 for the same number of miles.

So in summary, a little cheaper at a Supercharger but only 1/4th of the cost per mile if charging at home. I hope this helps!

Joe

One tiny little advantage of E-vehicles that is rarely talked about is the IMPROVED center of gravity of E-vehicles over gas vehicles. Basically, the batteries are heavy BUT, they are located LOW in the vehicle. With a piston-type gas vehicle, the heavy engine sits up very high. An improved center of gravity allows the E-vehicle to accelerate better and decelerate (brake) better than the higher center of gravity of the gas piston flopper engine.
.......Also, the rotary engine of the E-vehicle is superior and helps reliability.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Lyarham

electric is the wave of the future

keep saying it, it could happen.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Fastskiguy

It would be nice to know if they took everything into account....costs for raw materials, healthy costs due to pollution, etc. etc. etc. I have not seen an exhaustive, non biased report yet (but would love to see one!)

However, assuming it's true, it's only going to get better over time and the electric car is so much better for almost every use case that it's an obvious choice for the consumer. IMO of course

Joe

Not only is the breathing in of polluted gas exhaust a bad thing for human health. And the smaller engine vehicles like GOLF CARTS, lawnmowers, and gas blowers produce a GREAT amount of bad air to breathe. The CO2 rises and hurts humans again by warming the planet (like we experienced this summer in the entire southern half of the US).

[Justputt]

As electric vehicles become more common, experts worry they could pose a safety risk for other drivers - CBS News
As heavy EVs proliferate, their weight may be a drag on safety

[Nellmack]

Originally Posted by Heytubes

How much do replacement batteries cost in a few years?

I had my first Tesla for 7 years (135,000 miles) and my daily charge capacity went from 220 miles down to 216 miles.

Translation - In 7 years my battery dropped 4 miles of charging capacity. I can't say for sure how long it will last because I traded it in for a new Tesla but I would guess it had many years of useful life left. Longer than I want a car.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Heytubes

Interesting about icebergs melting and cities being threatened. When I fill a glass with ice and water the ice will melt, but the level of water stays the same. Got to figure if that compares to melting icebergs raising the sea level how many feet.

It's NOT a good analogy. In Antarctica, the ice is on top of firm ground. That would be like having an ice cube sitting on top of a slide dumping into a glass - then as that ice cube melted, the water level WOULD GO UP. Anyway, it is a KNOWN fact that in the last 10 years, the earth's ocean level has gone up. And at an INCREASING rate (enough to scare scientists) each succeeding year. And remember that we had a RECORD hot summer in the US and the whole world. Well, that is predicted to continue for , at least, the next 8 years.
......I hope that this helps.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by rsmurano

I knew it was very expensive to own and operate an EV, but this is way more than what I thought.


Cost of Driving Electric Vehicle Equal to Paying $17.33 Per Gallon of Gasoline, Study Finds - Truth Press

Your source is not a legitimate conveyer of factual information. There is no truth to what you posted. Do some legitimate fact checking before you post garbage!

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The electric motor in an E-vehicle is almost unbreakable and does NOT almost ever need repair. It is much more dependable than a piston flopper engine. So, what if your gas vehicle overheats and throws a piston or the automatic transmission starts slipping? How do you put a price on the lesser reliability of the gas engine vehicle?
.......We are in the equivalent of 1900 in the development of the E-vehicle. In a few years, there will be NO COMPARISON with the E-vehicle being VASTLY superior!

Interesting, just how quickly these discussions become adversarial. They don't have to be. The fact of the matter is that ownership of an EV, or an ICE, makes more or less sense depending on the needs of the consumer. It is NOT a "one size fits all" issue. There is more than ample room for both.

One big issue is weather. EVs make much more sense in states like Florida, where the weather rarely goes below freezing even in the middle of winter. Cold weather takes a toll on an EV: if you're out driving when it is -20 F. the range of your EV is going to go down. The most obvious reason is that a lot more energy will be used just to keep the occupants warm and the windows defrosted, but there is more to it than that. Energy is needed to keep the battery warm as well; "EVs are designed to heat or cool off the battery in order for the battery to perform at its best. And because the optimal temperature for most batteries is between 15 and 30 degrees celsius, part of the energy is used to cover this need." (monta dot com). Add to that the fact that distances traveled here in Florida are less overall than in, say, North Dakota, Minnesota or Wyoming, for example, and a winter road trip in an EV in below-zero conditions all of a sudden poses dangers and challenges that just aren't there in an ICE-powered vehicle.

I'd certainly consider owning an EV here in Florida. Back home in Minnesota? Nope.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I'd certainly consider owning an EV here in Florida. Back home in Minnesota? Nope.

But heat is a killer of batteries.

Heat is worse for car batteries than cold | verifythis.com.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

But heat is a killer of batteries.

Heat is worse for car batteries than cold | verifythis.com.

Sophistic. The article quoted is referring to how heat damages batteries by evaporating the electrolyte. However EV batteries don't contain liquid electrolyte:

"With a chemical reaction very similar to lithium-ion technology, solid state EV batteries replace the liquid-based electrolyte with a solid one." EV battery guide: what are electric car batteries made of? - RAC

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

But heat is a killer of batteries.

Heat is worse for car batteries than cold | verifythis.com.

From the article:

Yes, heat is worse for car batteries than cold. Heat is the number one culprit behind car battery failure because high temperatures can evaporate your battery's vital fluids and weaken its charge.

There really is not a lot of lithium evaporating from EV batteries.

Heat is bad for lithium batteries as well which we all know from experience with our cell phones. It *seems* like the Teslas attempt to deal with this. Walking through a parking lot yesterday I passed two Teslas with fans blowing but no occupants. At the time I thought it might be to keep the cabin cool in anticipation of the drivers returning. Now I wonder if the car was trying to keep the batteries cool.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Sorry, I thought you were paying that much for gasoline but you’re saying that’s what it cost to charge an EV is equal to $17.33 for a gal. of gas, that’s exactly why the present govt.wants EV’s. I’ve been saying that since they’ve been selling these expensive EV. Sorry my mistake about you paying $17.33 for a gal. of gas!

Not exactly.

Some calculate an equivalent cost per gallon like this:
- A typical EV gets 4 miles per kWH
- One kWH might cost 12 cents
- That make about 3 cents per mile for the "fuel" for the electric vehicle
- A typical gasoline car gets 30 mpg
- At 4 cents per mile and 30 mpg you get an equivalent cost per gallon of $1.21 for the electric vehicle (if gas was $1.21/gallon then the 30mpg car and the EV would have the same cost per mile)
- The article uses this number

The article says that the cost of electricity isn't the only cost. It claims the price of an EV is subsidized in many ways like Federal tax rebates, not paying gas taxes, not paying for the electric company to build a bigger infrastructure, and even penalties imposed on car manufacturers. The article says that when you add all these up they show that your EV is receiving $48K of free benefits. Rather than claiming the EV should cost $48K more, the article computes an equivalent cost per gallon of $17.33.

No one is paying $17.33 for gas.
No one is paying $17.33 for electricity.
In fact, no one is paying the $48K the article calculates.
The article just attributes this cost to the EV in order to come up with a scary number.