[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by nn0wheremann

Hell’s Belles, most police work is social work. If the responding official has the the skills, training and temperament to handle these calls without further entangling the criminal justice system, so much the better. Gives more time for police to handle police business, like the pickpockets, muggers, and thieves that prey upon visitors. Gives the courts more time to handle criminal business, and it saves taxpayer dollars.

That was a "somewhere man" good opinion!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Get real

It's time for the American public to decide what we want from law enforcement. Warriors? Counselors? Guardians? Priests? Social workers? Magicians?
Do we want the cheapest cops possible? Or, do we want well-trained and well-screened cops who are equipped with every tool needed for every possible eventuality?
Or do we want the beat cop from grandaddy's hometown, with nothing but a smile, a wheelgun and one set of cuffs?
Really, we want it all. Admit it, we do – and we want it all without paying for any of it.
Every officer needs to be an empathetic, well-spoken, SEAL-trained ninja, with double majors in psychology and social work, who considers the job a calling, and has no bills to pay, no nerves to fray, and enforces the law completely objectively while also using discretion at all times, unless it's going to result in arresting – or not arresting – the wrong person at the wrong time, for the wrong thing, in the opinion of every member of the public.
If that person existed, he wouldn't work for you. So we've got to deal with what exists, and what exists are humans.
Humans are fallible, and their bodies are frail. Their brains play tricks on them when they're under stress, and then keep them from sleeping by replaying the stressor on an endless loop later, trying to find ways to "fix" whatever went wrong.
Humans come in varieties, not exactly like dog breeds, but close enough that the analogy works: If you need a bite dog, you don't start with a Golden Retriever. Possibly, you can teach the Golden to bite on command, if you're persistent enough, and mean enough, but in the process, you'll ruin everything that made him a Golden to begin with.
Now translate that back to people.
Warriors, soldiers and great war generals like Patton may live for the fight but they don't always play well with others after the battle. They can be harsh. They can use bad language in settings where you wish they were polite. They find humor in ugly, dark places that just frighten the rest of society. They're not always...nice.
If you want only a cuddly, soft, empathetic officer whose first response is always a soft answer and compassion, you can have that. She'll never embarrass her chief at Coffee with a Cop. He'll present well on camera every time and remind you of someone's grandfather. He'll be the perfect SRO until there's an active shooter at your kid's school.
Suddenly, society insists on the warrior.
They want the demon Malinois, 55 pounds of rawhide, spring steel and gator teeth, driving into the gunfire and doing anything it takes – anything – to keep the children safe.
And once the threat is gone, society wants the Malinois to morph back into the therapy dog. They want the warrior gone, the counselor returned, the off switch thrown.
That's not how it works.
And it's not fair.
I tell you now: the unicorn doesn't exist. You can't have it. What you can have is a human.
If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.
You can have a human who tries. You can have someone who struggles, who sometimes fails, who gets better with time and experience and who has setbacks.
But you can't have perfection. In fact, you can break perfectly good humans by insisting they be something they can't be – things no one can be.
Decide now that as long as cops get recruited from the human race, they're going to be exactly human, with everything that means. The rest of society is also human, after all.
Maybe it's time we decide what we want from the rest of us, too.

Very thoughtful and thought-provoking, kudos. I will add one more to the fray--police and criminals are recruited from the SAME social class. As an aside- maybe we should put more $ into developing Robo-Cops?

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by Dilligas

The best answer for this is to point everyone to watching A&E on Friday and Saturday nights when they have "Live PD". They follow police from 10 or 15 different cities on their shifts and the calls they get. Very few end in gun fights, instead most are intoxication and drug related calls, or a car pulled over for a violation to find intoxication and/or drug problems from abuse to trafficing. Most of the officers are very professional and are trained to handle the social worker aspect. Once in a while, they have to subdue a suspect for a crime and are very cordial with them. They do get some that try to run or fight their way from being arrested, and many are drunk or on drugs when that happens. The energy the suspect develops is amazing agains two or more large trained officers. You will get a lot of respect for the difficult job the police have to do when you watch this show. On of the police departments they follow is Pasco County, on the north side of St. Petersburg.

Unfortunately, Live PD was permanently taken off the air by A&E.
Not politically correct?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It might help to see what the concept of "defunding" the police actually entails, because the word seems to be tripping everyone up. Here is what communities with defunded police departments actually look like, and the organization partly responsible for the success of the concept:

Defund police, as BLM wants? What it means in cities that have started

and

'CAHOOTS': How Social Workers And Police Share Responsibilities In Eugene, Oregon : NPR

and

the organization's website:

CAHOOTS | White Bird Clinic

Thanks for that link.....Cahoots was VERY good.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

Unfortunately, Live PD was permanently taken off the air by A&E.
Not politically correct?

Sad that the pandering will not allow the good that the police do to be shown.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Thanks for that link.....Cahoots was VERY good.

They still are. But they can't work in a vacuum. They work WITH the police, not against them, and not instead of them. They are an adjunct. The Police Departments are supposed to be part of civil and social services of any municipality. They are -not- supposed to be a military or quasi-military branch of the municipalities. But because of violent crime, they have less opportunity to appropriately train, and not enough resources to appropriately respond, to "all things." They CANNOT and should not be expected to be all things to all people.

These days, you don't call the fire department to get a cat off a roof or tree. You call the animal rescue organization. The fire department isn't being paid to rescue cats from trees and rooftops. Nor should they be. They need to focus their energy on fires and other serious life-threatening emergencies.

The same should be said for the police. You don't call the cops when your neighbor is having a heart attack, you call an ambulance. Why would you call the cops when the same neighbor is having a nervous breakdown and throwing his empty beer bottles at the walls of his own garage? Better to call a social worker. Or even better - call 911, and have 911 dispatch the social worker with police backup "just in case" the guy starts aiming those bottles at the social worker.

That is risk reduction, and efficient job specialization. A person experiencing emotional trauma is not likely to respond positively to a uniformed cop with his gun out banging on the front door. But they might respond positively to someone dressed neatly in plain clothes, unarmed, who offers an ear on the front porch with a bottle of spring water and a few fresh orange segments (for example).

The cop can be in sight, up the road. Or he could be standing on the sidewalk at the end of the driveway. But it's the social worker who would make the first contact.

This can reduce (and has proven effective in reducing) the potential for violence against - or by - police officers in stressful situations.

[petiteone]

It's a waste of time to have police show up for mental health issues. The police should be freed up to do their job, not the job of trained mental health professionals. Too many times the police have been called upon to handle jobs they're not trained for and many times it goes wrong for the victim. Remember the deaf autistic adult who couldn't understand police commands and they ended up killing him? Police have resorted to their guns when other means would have saved lives of the victim.

[Saluce]

Originally Posted by Dilligas

The best answer for this is to point everyone to watching A&E on Friday and Saturday nights when they have "Live PD". They follow police from 10 or 15 different cities on their shifts and the calls they get. Very few end in gun fights, instead most are intoxication and drug related calls, or a car pulled over for a violation to find intoxication and/or drug problems from abuse to trafficing. Most of the officers are very professional and are trained to handle the social worker aspect. Once in a while, they have to subdue a suspect for a crime and are very cordial with them. They do get some that try to run or fight their way from being arrested, and many are drunk or on drugs when that happens. The energy the suspect develops is amazing agains two or more large trained officers. You will get a lot of respect for the difficult job the police have to do when you watch this show. On of the police departments they follow is Pasco County, on the north side of St. Petersburg.

Be careful, you sound like your speaking with some sense.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by petiteone

It's a waste of time to have police show up for mental health issues. The police should be freed up to do their job, not the job of trained mental health professionals. Too many times the police have been called upon to handle jobs they're not trained for and many times it goes wrong for the victim. Remember the deaf autistic adult who couldn't understand police commands and they ended up killing him? Police have resorted to their guns when other means would have saved lives of the victim.

How is a 911 operator supposed to diagnose a mental health issue on the phone, and send a mental health professional to handle the situation? I think, in most cases, the police should be the first to respond.

[Saluce]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

How is a 911 operator supposed to diagnose a mental health issue on the phone, and send a mental health professional to handle the situation? I think, in most cases, the police should be the first to respond.

As a former 911 Dispatcher, I’m asking the same question!! Not all 911 callers are truthful when giving information and more than not officers arrive on a calls of these types and many times there is way more going on than what the caller advised the dispatcher. Also these “Social Worker” type calls that are being earmarked for social workers can go downhill in seconds and that has nothing to do with an officer!! Guns are not the only weapons used when approached by an officer, nor will they be when a social worker arrives.
I see 911 Dispatchers as the next victim the politicians will be blaming, because they aren’t handling the calls right!!!!

Maybe our politicians should focus on the need to fund the mental health issues our country has and the lack of funding and hospitals needed for the treating the mentally ill and drug abuser, which make up most of the calls officers go on.

[eremite06]

Many times in my 30 yr. career, the dispatched problem was not the actual scenario encountered. It's like "a box of chocolates."

[Jimmy Lee]

Get Real your 10:29am post on 7/14/20 about us somehow expecting beyond-human performance from our police was brilliant. The only thing I could add is that we also require cops who can make a decision in 4/10 of a second in a dark alley that will be identical to the decision made by a group of attorneys who've got hours to pour over bodycam footage of the event while sitting in comfortable chairs in complete safety.

[TomPerrett]

Maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe it’s time the police relived of the burden Of being social workers.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Saluce

... snipped .... our politicians should focus on the need to fund mental health issues.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Lee

Get Real your 10:29am post on 7/14/20 about us somehow expecting beyond-human performance from our police was brilliant. The only thing I could add is that we also require cops who can make a decision in 4/10 of a second in a dark alley that will be identical to the decision made by a group of attorneys who've got hours to pour over bodycam footage of the event while sitting in comfortable chairs in complete safety.

Amazing how many people do not understand this.