Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1959041)

There ARE reasons why CRT is "suddenly a big deal". Of course, it should NOT be. As you mentioned, it should just normally ease into schools and society as the US moves FORWARD to improve itself by the exorcism of the skeletons left behind in its History. But, we are at a critical time for the US as we are teetering on a knife's edge between Democracy and Dictatorship. This has created a horrendous social TENSION exacerbated by foreign actors (Russia) that have successfully driven wedges between US citizens - Whites vs Black and Browns - agnostics vs Evangelicals - coastal states vs midwestern states - the haves vs the want-to-have - blue collar vs white collar - vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1959052)

It IS a "big deal" because murders are up. The US is adjusting to coming out of a Pandemic and those adjustments are hard - like many businesses have gone bankrupt - workers have had time to take a good look at themselves and their not-so-bright future and are reluctant to RETURN to the same low paying, futureless job that they left. In this environment, people are more polarized and upset, and aggressive than usual. That partially explains WHY Critical Race Theory has BECOME enough of a wedge idea that people are willing to argue and fight about!

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1959046)

I also feel that the topic is not appropriate for elementary school children. A basic understanding of "why being different is OKAY" is important for them. But once it gets into socio-political studies, it needs to be learned in the higher grades. 11th and 12th grade perhaps.

But it absolutely does need to be presented as a subject to High Schoolers, because SOMEONE has to take an interest in it in college. Politics is a social science. Do we want our country to be led by an idiot who never learned anything about how our country came to exist? Or do we want our country to be led by someone who at the very least - read something about in a Senior Social Studies class?

Personally I'd rather my elected officials be as educated as possible on every subject that affects the citizenry. Telling them they're not ALLOWED to learn certain aspects of history is just shooting ourselves in the foot.

They could even say "hey there's this thing called CRT. Here's what THESE people think about it. Here's what THOSE people think about it. Here's a list of things that define what it IS. Now you can make your own decisions about it because you have learned."

That's really the least that should be expected, and accepted. Knowledge is power. If you want to take power away from people, then take away their knowledge.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1959060)

Yes! A FREE PEOPLE should NEVER be afraid of the TRUTH! The fact that some states are afraid shows me that the US is drifting down a heavy current in a river of Propaganda. We live in unstable times, unfortunately. ALL the old hidden problems and skeletons have emerged AFTER a period of CHAOS has highlighted them. It will NOW be hard to put those skeletons BACK in their box.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1959033)

First, because you brought it up. I am an Independent, after not only being registered in the party you seem to espouse for over 60 years, but being a paid employee. I changed, but not to what you refer.

Second, CRT is something BOTH groups wanted. It is not, in any way a subject to be taught. The changes that are being made and solicited are now a party movement to erase history as it happened. Really you should read the law. Full of platitudes, nothing of substance and was only even brought up to have it worked out as a party issue, adding a few words like Marxism to really generate those who are not really concerned with the country, but the party.

So, you have completely and totally flipped the truth.

Erasing history to serve a party is a very scary thing to endorse.

After 40 years of no problem in the schools, you now suggest that you want every party change in legislature to generate a new history. That CRT was done to keep this from happening.

But, again....you don't care and that is your right

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1959040)

None of what you said has been proven, 60 some court cases, and only 1 agreed with any of your assumptions. And hundreds of millions donated to prove the election fraud, and 6 months in and no proof yet forth coming. Keep donating, keep searching, I hope for your sake you actually find some proof. Otherwise, it will be a sad waste of time and a serious detriment to democracy.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1959036)

I had Native America studies at Earl Wooster HS (Reno, Nevada) in 1975-1976 or thereabouts. We went over a lot of battles in which the Native Americans won and we had three or four field trips to movies that featured the point-of-view of various Native American tribes like Little Big Man, A Man Called Horse and some others. Our teacher did favor the Native Americans but then again many of the kids in the class were Paiutes. This one too probably as it is about a Paiute-- Tell Them Willie Boy Is Here - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1959064)

Nothing was proven either cause it was never heard.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1959062)

Truth? According to? I guess I just see all the good that has happened in this country in my lifetime instead of dwelling on all the negative that may have occurred before I was born, and on the negative fears that might happen in the future. I certainly do agree with one part, "propaganda" and that is exactly what this is all about. CRT is a propaganda tool, not worthy of our education system.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1959062)

Truth? According to? I guess I just see all the good that has happened in this country in my lifetime instead of dwelling on all the negative that may have occurred before I was born, and on the negative fears that might happen in the future. I certainly do agree with one part, "propaganda" and that is exactly what this is all about. CRT is a propaganda tool, not worthy of our education system.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1958719)

No I'm saying I remember learning about systemic racism in the 70's, however I don't remember that we were taught that particular phrase. We learned the subject. It isn't a new subject. It's an important subject to learn. I just don't recall that we called it "systemic racism" and I don't recall that our lessons in school were called "critical race theory."

Sort of like if you learn all about the color blue, but they never mention to you that this color is called blue. You still know all about the color. Just not its official name.

That's all I meant by that.

The point of my post was that these lessons aren't new, and that I'm confused as to why all of a sudden people are against it. Are they also against teaching that the south lost the Civil War? Are they against learning that George Washington was our first president? Are they against learning that blue is a primary color?

I mean - this stuff shouldn't be shocking to anyone. I do have to say that learning about the Tulsa massacre only in the past year or so was sad to me. I should have learned about that in the 1970's too when we were learning about race relations (I believe that was the term we used, as a catch-phrase for the overall topic). It's possible that we were taught about Tulsa and that I merely forgot about it. Our country has been through trauma every which way since its inception. We have been victimized, and we have victimized others. We have had horrific crimes committed against us, and we have committed horrific crimes against others.

How can we learn from our mistakes, if we are ordered not to learn what we did wrong? We MUST know what we've done that was horrible and traumatizing and cruel and unjust, if we are ever to evolve as a society. Those who cannot learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1958669)

THE truth.

- The truth of the our early economy being based on free slave labor.
- The truth of segregation, with inferior or non-existent amenities for blacks.
- The truth of the Tulsa race riots.
- The truth of systemic racism that has existed in government and private enterprise.
- The truth of the rise of white supremacism and our own intelligence agencies saying that the biggest internal threat is white extremist groups.
- Etc., etc., etc.
- The truth that privileged whites are doing everything possible to ensure our children don't hear of any of this.

THOSE kind of truths.

Now it's time to hear from those who say slaves actually had it pretty good, who would also refuse to truthfully answer whether they would prefer to be enslaved and have 3 meals - or to be free and struggling.

Originally Posted by miharris (Post 1959094)

- Our early economy was not based on "free slave labor" Slave labor was used almost exclusively in the south for cash crops - primarily cotton and tobacco. In terms of the overall economy of the US, the south was miniscule compared to the industrialized northern states. In fact, the cause of the civil war was not primarily slavery, it was the fact that the south was being increasingly marginalized by the northern states, who favored high import and export tariffs, which kept agricultural prices low (fewer export markets) and the price of manufactured goods high (difficult to import from other industrialized countries). There is no question that slavery was and is abhorrent, but it is true that it existed for thousands of years in hundreds of cultures.


- Segregation was in fact true, and an unfortunate part of US history, but our current system provides abundant opportunities for people of color in education and employment. In fact, the most successful 'race' in the US currently is Asian, not white.

- The Tulsa race riots were a travesty, true, but they happened in 1921 for gods sake. Are you seriously implying that the country where that happened is the same country that elected a Black man president? Twice??

My biggest issue is that the current extreme left wing movement, including things like CRT, is to the push to equality of outcome, as oppose to equality of opportunity. That is not what made this county the envy of the world. And before you object to that phrase, tell me why our boarder is being over-run by people from central and south America? Why aren't they flocking to Venezuela? Mexico? Brazil? North Korea?

Originally Posted by Briand (Post 1959050)

Anyone prepared to be introspective will see that hiding our history is not a good idea. I am a ‘Brit’ and the first to admit the building of the biggest empire in History was not carried out without a lot of evil actions on our behalf and suffering for many in the British Empire. Knowing this and understanding the suffering of those who were ‘conquered’ is vitally important to becoming an active and sympathetic member of society today.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1958867)

I’m curious, how do you feel black voters are “suppressed” today?

Originally Posted by JerryLBell (Post 1958374)

From what I've read, critical race theory is really two ideas.

The first is that the very idea of race is not based on biology or science of any kind. There's nothing about the physiology of humans that neatly divides humanity into categories like "white", "black", "Asian", etc. The attempts to divide people into these categories were done societally, not scientifically.

The second idea is that American history shows us that governments put in place in the Americas by European settlers were and continue to be racist in nature. To steal land away from the indigenous people, governments put into place laws that made those peoples have fewer or any rights and encouraged the suppression of those peoples. Prior to the industrial revolution, manual labor was vital and slave labor was cheaper than paid labor, so laws were put into place to allow kidnapping, torturing and enslaving peoples from other countries, especially Africa. Laws were put into place over time to exclude Asians. During World War II, people of Japanese heritage were robbed of their properties and imprisoned while people of German heritage were not. Even after the emancipation of enslaved people in America, voting rights were suppressed and continue to be so to this day.

Critical race theory doesn't paint an artificially pretty picture of American history or governance. If you read history deeply, however, it is probably a more accurate picture. Does this divide people? Possibly. Some people are averse to learning unpleasant truths. I've always thought that true patriotism wasn't blindly loving ones country, right or wrong but rather wanting the best for and out of ones country, realizing when ones country was wrong or doing wrong and changing it for the better even if that involves discomfort and hard work.

America isn't perfect and never was. It gets better over time, despite occasional backsliding. I hope it continues to get better and better in the future. Pretending we are and have been perfect won't help us get there.

But that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1958874)

Surprised this thread has been allowed this long. Sadly, there is no question our country is perhaps more divided than since the civil war.

My view a major problem is what we allow. The teacher's union as a group is far left.
Any opposing view will be snuffed out. Charter schools has been proposed. We have one in the Villages and it is one of the top schools. For some a solution. My view I try to see pluses and minuses of every issue. Charter schools would mean that the best students would leave the public school system. The public school system would be left with the worst student population.

Our constitution is a miracle. Imagine written by humans, no internet, no cell phones, heck a pen was a sharpened feather. Law is being tied into knots. Freedom of speech,
right to gather, no state religion all in the First Amendment. Many on both sides of the divide need to read it. It does not say freedom to agree with me, right to gather only if you agree with me, or the right to have a faith so long as it is mine.

Originally Posted by Joe C. (Post 1958877)

Divide and conquer. That's the goal.

We are not responsible for the acts of those who were here before us.
When someone's parents die, they are not responsible to pay their debts.

Slavery was acceptable in the past around most of the world.

The only reason people decided that slavery wasn't needed was because of the industrial revolution.

Slavery still exists in other countries.....China for example. So if anything you have has a label that says "Made in China", then it is quite possible that by your actions, you are approving and causing the continuance of slavery there.

So if some of us would get off our "high horse", and some of us would quit whining about how bad we have it because of our color, and all of us put on our "big boy shoes" and accept that all have made mistakes in the past, we wouldn't have a problem.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1959122)

Blacks and Browns are suppressed by gerrymandering for one thing. And by the NEW laws passed by Arizona, Utah, Georgia, and Florida. We ALL remember voting lines in Atlanta stretching back for four blocks. That's Suppression with a capital S.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1958798)

IMO, our schools have set aside very little time for teaching the basics that these children need in everyday life, let alone have enough time for teaching liberal "theory" of casting blame on our past. Let's not mix up actual history with Social Studies or Civics. Even as old as we are, most of us were taught about the slavery and the Civil war. In Civics class we were taught about equal rights.
That said, this is not about teaching, it's about indoctrination. CRT is not about teaching history, but teaching these kids about what some believe is "systemic racism" which is not even accurate. It is teaching these children that if they are "white" then they come from a history of "white supremacists." It is teaching Equity instead of Equality. This is ALL wrong. Anyone believing the garbage that CRT is a good thing for children, must not have children or had children themselves. I am not suggesting that there is no longer racism in our country, but I am suggesting that we have come a very long way and now some folks are using politics AND racism to further an Anti-American ideology. Americans are good people. We have been the standard for ALL other countries. No one is suggesting that America never had it's blemishes or that Americans walk on water. BUT, we are the of the best in the world and anyone that refutes that has never lived and traveled outside of our country to see proof.
CRT is very dangerous to our children. Not what it is being said it is, but what it really is. A black child should not be told that it is a victim of today's white supremacy and can never expect to do better on their own. They should not be taught that this country owes them a debt, but an equal chance based on ability. A white child should not be told that they will always owe someone else a debt because history says they are always going to be racists because their ancestors were racists.
Teach history by time line and leave ideology and theory to higher institutions.
Anyone that is taught about the CIVIL war and events leading up to it, knows that there was a slavery problem. Want to talk about equal rights, then bring Civics back into the classroom and teach it along with other countries' constitutions. But also teach the kids about how our gov is run.
CRT is political, not science. If you can't see that, then it's too late for you because you have already been indoctrinated by a warped liberal/marxist agenda. Next thing you will be teaching the kids is that communism is the American way.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1958879)

An awful lot of posters evidently never even heard about CRT until it was made a target of a certain faction. It is a selected agenda item for 2022, and is being wrapped in such different wrappings that are not real.

It has been around for 40 years....not new, and it appears from some of the comments on here, the hard right extremists have made it into something it's not, nor never been.

It is no wonder that almost all the top threats to our country are labeled as coming from the same direction.

To attack teachers, and suggest subject matter should be in the control of elected officials is inexcusable, offensive and with zero credibility. To utter a word like Marxism in the same breath shows the impact of certain cable networks, and social media.

Teach the truth about history. Not teaching feelings, but facts that did happen. What civilization restricts accounts of their history to its young people ?

But begin by studying what CRT means, academically, not defined by elected officials, stop attacking something you obviously don't understand

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1958889)

Sadly, hate is a powerful yet mindless emotion. Far to many parrot what they are fed.

As far as suppressed vote. The effort to vote is minimal. Nothing is can or will be perfect
and yet we spin reality to support what we want.

The reality, is shockingly interesting. I am very much against reality suppression and am regularly shocked to discover the difference between what people scream and reality.
We tend to divide our people into groups. Sadly no other way to speak but not all Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Orientals, I do not mean to not list all but I hope it makes the point, think or vote the same. To my surprise blacks have among the highest percentage of voters compared to the other groups.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1959125)

"Critical Theory" emanated from German Marxists who based it on class. When the idea migrated to the US it was transformed into a theory based on "race", which has no basis in science. It has been adopted by "progressive" socialists and marxists in this country as a way to "transform" this country, ie; to gain power. It is divisive, damaging to our children since it teaches that minorities have no chance in life because they are "oppressed", and worst of all, teaches people to fear each other on the basis of their melanin. It does not teach history nor does provide a historically accurate account of this country. I applaud Florida for stopping this insidious fifth column from getting a foothold in our education system.

Originally Posted by kenoc7 (Post 1958832)

No, it is designed to encourage honest discussions about American histrory.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1959139)

Honest discussions?/ Based on falsehoods?? Please read up on this. There is a reason why so many parents of school age children across our Nation are protesting this.

Originally Posted by toymeister (Post 1958372)

it is forbidden from being taught in public schools in florida.

Originally Posted by rlcooper70 (Post 1958871)

You ask if the black vote is being suppressed today?

Take a look at the restrictions in the Georgia law .... they closed two out of three polling places in the black areas of the inner city. Duh. "Restrict" is a word with a meaning. Closing polling stations is a "restriction". Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1959141)

With respect, CNN is hardly an unbiased source on this matter. Furthermore Critical Theory started in Germany based on class, by Marxists. You're good at research. look it up.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1958862)

You took my quote out of context. The post I was referring to, and my post were talking about history and the study of documents to try to determine what happened centuries ago. I was referring to a person who denigrated the study of history and lumped it together with CRT.

I did NOT say or mean that CRT is a science.

I agree with you, that knowing the past doesn't encourage one to repeat it, in fact, I believe that studying the past - history - truth (as close as we can determine) will help us not repeat the past mistakes and atrocities.

A theory is a tool used by science that by definition accepts that it may not be perfect or "truth". However, a theory is useful because it makes predictions and explanations of phenomena. The better the theory the more accurate the predictions or conclusions. It is used by science but is not necessarily true or facts. Very little in science is actually truth or facts, most of science is theory. (some like believe it is all theory.)

For example, our use of electricity is based on a theory, and it is useful in our daily lives. But there is little doubt that it is just a theory and actually not how electricity actually works.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1959148)

No, it is a theory BUT it is a PROVEN theory and therefore reality and not a hypothesis.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1958903)

How do you figure that the rich pay less taxes? Any taxes paid is more than half the country is paying and that is a fact. To be fair, we would either have to initiate a flat tax where EVERYONE (including the low earners) pays a percentage of earnings, OR we would have to have a federal sales tax. Then I wonder how some would feel about the rich paying sales taxes. A person wishing to save their money would not purchase. A rich person not wishing to pay taxes on a Rolls would purchase a Ford.
Time to quit making excuses and face reality. The rich are paying for the running of this country and should not be penalized to the point of leaving it. The rich are patriots. Yep, I said it because I am not biased against those that are my betters in wealth. It is the rich that employ. The gov cannot spend it's own money because it makes no money. It is the rich that pay the most taxes that finance the gov employees. If you want equity, then EVERYONE should pay the same. Is that what you really want?

Originally Posted by Phantomf8 (Post 1958986)

Well written - EVERYONE should read this and LEARN!!!! Why did so many people die for this beautiful country with all of its faults? Were they "suckers" or were they fighting for what is described above - to preserve what we have built - not to have it torn down!!! We trust they did NOT die in vein!!!!! I've lost five members of my family in the last four wars - WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. Was it all for nought? Democracy is at best "messy" but its alternative "authoritarianism" [a rule of one] is worse! America resulted from a rebellion against the king [a rule of one] and now it is at risk of slipping back into those destructive chains of authoritarianism. Why? Because of the deep divisions and resultant anger [as so accurately described above] being played upon by political malfeasance.

The definitions of "equality" and "equity" are twisted around to define the moment which can result in a hazardous, slippery slope as defined in another response above - annihilation of capitalism is an extreme as is Marxism resulting in the eradication of the rule of law replaced by temporary "people power" which is self destructive and, in the long run, ends in authoritaranism such as exists in Russia. China's evolution of family dynasties till they were overthrown in the guise of "people power" again resulted in authoritarianism as we witness today.

Are we next? Are we going to tear each other apart until the rule of law is no longer? That gangsters - in the guise of preserving our country - will run rampant, as did the brown shirts before Hitler took control, suppressing and killing all those deemed in opposition to the new rule? Or ruler?

I for one, hope not! I pray that my, and everyone else's, ancestors did not die in vein defending this democracy. I pray that we ALL wake up in America, put down our frenzied differences, stop yelling at each other and LISTEN! There's the good, the bad and the ugly on all sides that need to be addressed so that we and democracy [no matter how messy] can survive!

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1959148)

No, it is a theory BUT it is a PROVEN theory and therefore reality and not a hypothesis.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1959157)

The rich pay less taxes through the mechanism of Capital Gains. The rate is LOWER than rates on income!

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1958991)

Well said..teach the truth and do not allow elected officials to run the curriculum